Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
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G'day
I went to Aviator. Had a great time. Dont expect OAT or Cabair conditions, but all that Multi time is great.
What happens is when you build your multi time you do it with 2 pilots in the cockpit. One under the hood flying IFR and the other as safety pilot. Under FAA rules the safety pilot is a required crew member so can log PIC time for the entire time the other guy is under the hood. You cannot do his under JAR, you can only log the time you are manipulating the controls. You should therefore keep 2 logbooks, 1 JAR and 1 FAA.
You can also log Dual PIC under FAA. This means for example if you are flying a multi engine aircraft under instruction for your instrument rating, but already hold a multi engine cpl rating, you can log PIC time as well as dual because YOU ARE rated on the plane. You cannot do this under JAR so again, should log both differently in 2 different logbooks.
There are some other quirks, but just make sure you clarify them with instructors or the rule books.
Take it easy
WJ
What happens is when you build your multi time you do it with 2 pilots in the cockpit. One under the hood flying IFR and the other as safety pilot. Under FAA rules the safety pilot is a required crew member so can log PIC time for the entire time the other guy is under the hood. You cannot do his under JAR, you can only log the time you are manipulating the controls. You should therefore keep 2 logbooks, 1 JAR and 1 FAA.
You can also log Dual PIC under FAA. This means for example if you are flying a multi engine aircraft under instruction for your instrument rating, but already hold a multi engine cpl rating, you can log PIC time as well as dual because YOU ARE rated on the plane. You cannot do this under JAR so again, should log both differently in 2 different logbooks.
There are some other quirks, but just make sure you clarify them with instructors or the rule books.
Take it easy
WJ
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FNPTII hrs for I.R.
Hi all,
Could anyone enlighten me as to the maximum number of FNPTII hours allowable when applying for initial IR(A) (modular)?
I have tried to obtain the above using the search function though to no avail so apologies if it“s already been covered.
I know that this information is covered online in the CAA“s “LASORS“ but my dial up connection is just too slow to load it in any reasonable amount of time!
(If anyone could provide a direct link to the page it would be much appreciated)
regards
John.
Could anyone enlighten me as to the maximum number of FNPTII hours allowable when applying for initial IR(A) (modular)?
I have tried to obtain the above using the search function though to no avail so apologies if it“s already been covered.
I know that this information is covered online in the CAA“s “LASORS“ but my dial up connection is just too slow to load it in any reasonable amount of time!
(If anyone could provide a direct link to the page it would be much appreciated)
regards
John.
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Hey John, no problem.
Here's the relevant section
For IR restricted to Single-Engine (SE) aeroplanes
A single-engine IR(A) course shall comprise of at least:-
a) 50 hours instrument time under instruction,
which may include (b) or (c).
b) 20 hours (maximum) in FNPT 1 if approved by
CAA;
c) 35 hours (maximum) in FNPT II or Flight
Simulator if approved by CAA. With the
agreement of the approving Authority not more
than 10 hours of FNPT II or flight simulator
instrument ground time may be conducted in a
FNPT I.
For Multi-Engine (ME) aeroplanes
A multi-engine IR(A) course shall comprise of at least:-
a) 55 hours instrument time under instruction,
which may include (b) or (c) and must include (d);
b) 25 hours (maximum) in FNPT 1 if approved by
CAA.
c) 40 hours (maximum) in FNPT II or Flight
Simulator if approved by CAA. With the
agreement of the approving Authority not more
than 10 hours of FNPT II or flight simulator
instrument ground time may be conducted in a
FNPT I.
d) 15 hours in ME aeroplanes.
Here's the relevant section
For IR restricted to Single-Engine (SE) aeroplanes
A single-engine IR(A) course shall comprise of at least:-
a) 50 hours instrument time under instruction,
which may include (b) or (c).
b) 20 hours (maximum) in FNPT 1 if approved by
CAA;
c) 35 hours (maximum) in FNPT II or Flight
Simulator if approved by CAA. With the
agreement of the approving Authority not more
than 10 hours of FNPT II or flight simulator
instrument ground time may be conducted in a
FNPT I.
For Multi-Engine (ME) aeroplanes
A multi-engine IR(A) course shall comprise of at least:-
a) 55 hours instrument time under instruction,
which may include (b) or (c) and must include (d);
b) 25 hours (maximum) in FNPT 1 if approved by
CAA.
c) 40 hours (maximum) in FNPT II or Flight
Simulator if approved by CAA. With the
agreement of the approving Authority not more
than 10 hours of FNPT II or flight simulator
instrument ground time may be conducted in a
FNPT I.
d) 15 hours in ME aeroplanes.
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Whilst almost correct Blue robbin i believe the single engine and multi engine IR's are both 50 hours if you have a cpl or 55 hours if you don't. I thought you had to have 15 hours in the aircraft so as long as you have that you can make up the rest of the hours in the fnpt2, however blue robbin seems to suggest that you can only have a max in the sim and it looks like he has referred to lasors so i would tend to go with the max amount of 35 in the fnpt2
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My own thoughts about the IR sim usage. Unless you are very confident in your ability to pass the IR with just the minimum of 15hrs ME time, don't consider using the max 35hrs FNPTII time. You'll feel like Cptn Capacity in the sim whereas ATC will seldom route you according to your FPL and will work you like a dog in the air. With personal hindsight I reckon I would have been better off with 15 hours in the FNTPII max, just enough for an instrument refresher and to cover the routes. Also, not using the max sim time, may leave some time for some cross-country IFR which will probably expand your capabilities too.
All assuming UK.
All assuming UK.
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I actually have decided where we differ on the hours required and in actual fact we are both right, to an extent. The cpl before the IR states that you have to have 10 hours of intrument time, and therefore you can deduct 5 hours from your multi engine ir time, giving you a 25h cpl and 50h IR if you do the ir first then its a 55h ir then a 15h cpl. With regards to sim time i am agreeing with you as you have read lasors about it and i haven't, however i was only stating that i had previously thought that it was a minimum time in the a/c not a max time in the sim, i was wrong. I did 25 in the sim and 25 in the a/c and got a first time pass so i was unaware of any max sim time, but i was told that i HAD to do at least 15 in the a/c, in all honesty I would say that 25h in the a/c should be the min, coz at 15h I was still all over the place
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What's in english for .....
Hi everybody;
First I'm french (sorry) so excuse me for the grammar... (re-sorry)
I m filing the CTC recruitment and I was wonder of what was P1; P1/S; Dual and P2 for flight hours logging.
I expect that Dual is when I am flying with an instructor; P2 is when I am flying as a Co-pilot but what's the differences between P1 and P1/S (is the S for solo flight??? and so what is P1 (captain hours???)
Thanks in advance
First I'm french (sorry) so excuse me for the grammar... (re-sorry)
I m filing the CTC recruitment and I was wonder of what was P1; P1/S; Dual and P2 for flight hours logging.
I expect that Dual is when I am flying with an instructor; P2 is when I am flying as a Co-pilot but what's the differences between P1 and P1/S (is the S for solo flight??? and so what is P1 (captain hours???)
Thanks in advance
Only half a speed-brake
Tha answer is in JAR FCL1. Have a look.
Basically, dual is all flying with when receiving instruction under JAR FCL, i.e, base training should be logged as dual, because you are not qualified on the type yet.
Commander, is a pilot nominated by the operator, there can be only one on board. Commander has all the legal responsibilities and power. Commander always logs P1 - PIC, even if he is asleep in the bunk.
Once you have a licence, and you are not a Commander, you log co-pilot time. Co-pilot is any pilot on MPA who is not the commander, even if you have captain licence. This would apply for flights with two captains and for all F/Os
If a captain is receiving any instruction, he would log PIC(Under Supervision) time. He cannot log straight PIC time as this is reserved for commanders only and that will be the instructor (provided he is occupying the right hand seat). But such captain trainee acts as a commander, so he logs what he does - commanders time under supervision.
To gain PIC time for ATPL, F/Os often need some extra PIC time. FCL has a provision to it. Under approved training syllabus F/O can play the commander while being supervised by an instructor. In this case, F/O may log PIC(US) time as well. WARNING: This is JAR FCL rules. UK CAA set a different rules under which F/O logs PIC(US) for legs where he is the pilot FLYING. This is clearly contravention of JAR FCL, but that is how it is done.
FD
(the un-real)
Basically, dual is all flying with when receiving instruction under JAR FCL, i.e, base training should be logged as dual, because you are not qualified on the type yet.
Commander, is a pilot nominated by the operator, there can be only one on board. Commander has all the legal responsibilities and power. Commander always logs P1 - PIC, even if he is asleep in the bunk.
Once you have a licence, and you are not a Commander, you log co-pilot time. Co-pilot is any pilot on MPA who is not the commander, even if you have captain licence. This would apply for flights with two captains and for all F/Os
If a captain is receiving any instruction, he would log PIC(Under Supervision) time. He cannot log straight PIC time as this is reserved for commanders only and that will be the instructor (provided he is occupying the right hand seat). But such captain trainee acts as a commander, so he logs what he does - commanders time under supervision.
To gain PIC time for ATPL, F/Os often need some extra PIC time. FCL has a provision to it. Under approved training syllabus F/O can play the commander while being supervised by an instructor. In this case, F/O may log PIC(US) time as well. WARNING: This is JAR FCL rules. UK CAA set a different rules under which F/O logs PIC(US) for legs where he is the pilot FLYING. This is clearly contravention of JAR FCL, but that is how it is done.
FD
(the un-real)
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how to change logbook?
just interesting. I have at the moment a normal AFE PPL Logbook, which is great, small etc. If i am going to start a IFR/CPL training, as much i know, i will need a "big" professional logbook. At which moment logbook will be changed and how? All flying gonna be writed from beginning to professional logbook or only flight time previous entered ?
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All you need to do is, either start you're new log book where the old one left off, or as you're on you're ppl transfer the whole lot over to the new one. You have to keep the old log book though as it will have you're sign offs, hours and checkrides in etc.
Then when you have to submit the log book to the authority for license issue/rating you need to send both the old and the new one in together.
Just make sure you keep the old one.
Then when you have to submit the log book to the authority for license issue/rating you need to send both the old and the new one in together.
Just make sure you keep the old one.
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every time send both or only once to approve all information transferred correctly in case of overwriting to new one?
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Have to say I'm not sure... I would have thought once you have got you upgraded license ie from PPl to CPL and got the new logbook stamped you may not need to send the old one in again, but I am only guessing.. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it further.
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When I got my CPL I changed to a new log book (mid '05).
When I sent off the application for my FI rating I only sent the new one - it contained records of all the flights I had done during my FIC. Since the rating was (eventually) issued I guess it was OK.
OC619
When I sent off the application for my FI rating I only sent the new one - it contained records of all the flights I had done during my FIC. Since the rating was (eventually) issued I guess it was OK.
OC619
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X-Country
My sincere apologies if this has already been discussed..but i looked all over the place and didnt manage to find it. Any idea how the CAA defines "cross country time?" Im a PPL building hours for the CPL/IR. Since i'm based in malta, most of my flights depart and arrive at the same airport...since we only have one 
I was once told be a commercial pilot that for a flight to count as cross country you have to fly some distance away from the airport...i think it was 8nm but im not sure...can someone help me out in this?
thanks
I was once told be a commercial pilot that for a flight to count as cross country you have to fly some distance away from the airport...i think it was 8nm but im not sure...can someone help me out in this?thanks
Registered User
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Logging IR & CPL's during conversions
Now here is one for all the regulations afficiandos . . . .
I have an ICAO (in the form of a FAA) CPL/ME/IR and recently attained my JAA CPL/ME/IR in the UK. The question is this, can I log ferry flights, my CPL and IR skills tests as P1 as I already hold a licence (abeit I'm flying a G registered aircraft opposed to a N) or is it P1s? One of the problems with owning a Jeppesen logbook.
Also just to confirm, in Jeppesen
P1 = PIC
P1s = Not designated
P1u/t = Dual
P2 = SIC
I have an ICAO (in the form of a FAA) CPL/ME/IR and recently attained my JAA CPL/ME/IR in the UK. The question is this, can I log ferry flights, my CPL and IR skills tests as P1 as I already hold a licence (abeit I'm flying a G registered aircraft opposed to a N) or is it P1s? One of the problems with owning a Jeppesen logbook.
Also just to confirm, in Jeppesen
P1 = PIC
P1s = Not designated
P1u/t = Dual
P2 = SIC
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255329
Use google to do an advanced search as it enables you to search for 3 letter word combinations whereas pprune won't. Also specify that it is only to search www.pprune.org and bingo.
Use google to do an advanced search as it enables you to search for 3 letter word combinations whereas pprune won't. Also specify that it is only to search www.pprune.org and bingo.
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Logbooks
Hi, I am planning on getting my FAA ratings before my JAA ratings and maybe instructing in the USA for a while.
Should I use a JAR logbook or an FAA one, as I am planning on working in the UK eventually. Would the FAA issue ratings if I send them a JAA logbook. Also does anyone use these electronic logbooks? and can these totally replace their paper counterparts?
Thanks
Should I use a JAR logbook or an FAA one, as I am planning on working in the UK eventually. Would the FAA issue ratings if I send them a JAA logbook. Also does anyone use these electronic logbooks? and can these totally replace their paper counterparts?
Thanks
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Good Evening,
I have just read through this thread to try and see if my question can be answered. I'm glad it was a large cup of tea. Anyway, i'm getting my ppl after flying within the military before going down the modular route. Now my question is i have hours in my military logbook that was flown on a civilian registered aircraft and have a course completion certificate which the CAA will accept. Would i be able to add these military hours into my new logbook as this is what will count for the ppl? I will not add any of the subsequent hours on military registered aircraft these will stay in the military one.
Thanks in advance.
I have just read through this thread to try and see if my question can be answered. I'm glad it was a large cup of tea. Anyway, i'm getting my ppl after flying within the military before going down the modular route. Now my question is i have hours in my military logbook that was flown on a civilian registered aircraft and have a course completion certificate which the CAA will accept. Would i be able to add these military hours into my new logbook as this is what will count for the ppl? I will not add any of the subsequent hours on military registered aircraft these will stay in the military one.
Thanks in advance.