This is the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL
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This is the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL
I posted this information in another thread but the whole thing was deleted. I don't know why it disappeared so I will post it again. This is by far the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL and hopefully it will stop the big schools in the UK stealing from people. £50,000 is an insane price to pay and it should be stopped.
Before I start I will just say that all those idiots who say standards are lower in the US are either trying to get you to enrol in their school or they are trying to justify the sickening amount of money they have spent. I used to instruct in Los Angeles and I have also flown a lot in the UK and can say that the standard of flying is the same. I would even be tempted to say that those who have flown in the US are better all around pilots because they have dealt with and been into very busy airspace on a daily basis. It is also far more interesting in the states, where in the UK would you ever get the chance to squeeze under the wingtip of a Virgin 747 in a PA-28 so you can depart first to avoid having to wait for wake turbulence to dissipate, nowhere is the answer to that.
Here is the cheapest route to get a JAA ATPL in easy steps.
(1) Go and get an FAA PPL US$ 3600
(2) Build time US$ 5000
(3) Get a FAA IR US$ 3700
(4) Get an FAA CPL US$ 1300
(5) Add multi IR to FAA CPL US$ 1800
Total us costs in GBP at current exchange rate: £8325
You will need to do the JAA ATPL writtens at some point so I would suggest converting the FAA PPL to JAA ASAP and then you can enrol in a distance-learning course. The conversion I think consists of some written exams and check ride, I have not looked into it as have not needed to do it but would be very very surprised if it cost more than GBP 500.
(6) Enrol with an ATPL distance-learning course GBP 1100
(7) Convert the FAA IR to JAA GBP 3500
(8) Convert the FAA CPL to JAA GBP 1000
(9) Do an MCC course GBP 1500
That has cost about 15500 pounds. THAT IS CORRECT GBP 15500.
Nowhere near £50,000. Is the name of where you trained worth that much? Going by the number of unemployed ex student of the big schools in the UK the answer is obviously no. If you do not believe this I am happy to give you details of the schools offering these courses at those prices. The only one I am not sure of is the conversion of a FAA PPL as have not had to do it. Paying £50,000 to become a very inexperienced person in a field that is very hard to get into is, as far as I can tell, insane. Just think, the money you save could get you a 737 and A300 type rating. I am against that sort of thing but surely you lot who say the name of the school means a lot can't deny that a holder of a frozen ATPL, with those type ratings, would stand a far better chance than a fresh graduate from one of the rip off UK schools. Just had a look at a leading UK school and their course is £56,500, absolute madness. I will be interested to see if this post also gets deleted like the last one.
Before I start I will just say that all those idiots who say standards are lower in the US are either trying to get you to enrol in their school or they are trying to justify the sickening amount of money they have spent. I used to instruct in Los Angeles and I have also flown a lot in the UK and can say that the standard of flying is the same. I would even be tempted to say that those who have flown in the US are better all around pilots because they have dealt with and been into very busy airspace on a daily basis. It is also far more interesting in the states, where in the UK would you ever get the chance to squeeze under the wingtip of a Virgin 747 in a PA-28 so you can depart first to avoid having to wait for wake turbulence to dissipate, nowhere is the answer to that.
Here is the cheapest route to get a JAA ATPL in easy steps.
(1) Go and get an FAA PPL US$ 3600
(2) Build time US$ 5000
(3) Get a FAA IR US$ 3700
(4) Get an FAA CPL US$ 1300
(5) Add multi IR to FAA CPL US$ 1800
Total us costs in GBP at current exchange rate: £8325
You will need to do the JAA ATPL writtens at some point so I would suggest converting the FAA PPL to JAA ASAP and then you can enrol in a distance-learning course. The conversion I think consists of some written exams and check ride, I have not looked into it as have not needed to do it but would be very very surprised if it cost more than GBP 500.
(6) Enrol with an ATPL distance-learning course GBP 1100
(7) Convert the FAA IR to JAA GBP 3500
(8) Convert the FAA CPL to JAA GBP 1000
(9) Do an MCC course GBP 1500
That has cost about 15500 pounds. THAT IS CORRECT GBP 15500.
Nowhere near £50,000. Is the name of where you trained worth that much? Going by the number of unemployed ex student of the big schools in the UK the answer is obviously no. If you do not believe this I am happy to give you details of the schools offering these courses at those prices. The only one I am not sure of is the conversion of a FAA PPL as have not had to do it. Paying £50,000 to become a very inexperienced person in a field that is very hard to get into is, as far as I can tell, insane. Just think, the money you save could get you a 737 and A300 type rating. I am against that sort of thing but surely you lot who say the name of the school means a lot can't deny that a holder of a frozen ATPL, with those type ratings, would stand a far better chance than a fresh graduate from one of the rip off UK schools. Just had a look at a leading UK school and their course is £56,500, absolute madness. I will be interested to see if this post also gets deleted like the last one.
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Quote:
(6) Enrol with an ATPL distance-learning course GBP 1100
(7) Convert the FAA IR to JAA GBP 3500
(8) Convert the FAA CPL to JAA GBP 1000
(9) Do an MCC course GBP 1500
in all my experience i have yet to find anyone who has converted an ICAO IR to a JAR IR for 3500. The test fee is 640quid, the ac hire about another 800quid and that is just for the test, let alone the required training before sitting the IR. (please remember to get a CPL/IR in the UK it must be a multi engine if you intend to join a flight crew of ME aircraft (SE commercial operations are not allowed at night here)
Also not to be sceptical but where is a distance learning course for 1100,(there are 14 exams at almost 70quid an exam plus travel to and from a test centre, a CPL for 1000 (again the test fee is 600quid + ac hire etc..approaches and landings) and an MCC course for 1500 WHERE ??
also i think you have forgotten to add accommodation and living expenses on to all of this, which is likely to take over a year (the ATPLs can take upto 1 year), plus living costs for the residentials at the school in question for the compulsery brush up courses, plus travel, plus for the IR in uk airspace, approach fees, landing fees etc etc (as an example an approach and landing for the test centre at bournemouth is approx 67quid, then do the same again for your test and an approach else where... eeeeks..ouch)
I genuinely think that your estimate of 15,000 is quite untrue and if you add up the cost of everything including even travel to and from the US it will surprise you.
I would be interested to see where you get your calculations for the conversions from, would they be certain US school bidding fr your hard earned cash.
also to any estimate, especially at professional level you need to realistically add one third again.
BUT i do stand to be corrected as always
Goodluck TR
(6) Enrol with an ATPL distance-learning course GBP 1100
(7) Convert the FAA IR to JAA GBP 3500
(8) Convert the FAA CPL to JAA GBP 1000
(9) Do an MCC course GBP 1500
in all my experience i have yet to find anyone who has converted an ICAO IR to a JAR IR for 3500. The test fee is 640quid, the ac hire about another 800quid and that is just for the test, let alone the required training before sitting the IR. (please remember to get a CPL/IR in the UK it must be a multi engine if you intend to join a flight crew of ME aircraft (SE commercial operations are not allowed at night here)
Also not to be sceptical but where is a distance learning course for 1100,(there are 14 exams at almost 70quid an exam plus travel to and from a test centre, a CPL for 1000 (again the test fee is 600quid + ac hire etc..approaches and landings) and an MCC course for 1500 WHERE ??
also i think you have forgotten to add accommodation and living expenses on to all of this, which is likely to take over a year (the ATPLs can take upto 1 year), plus living costs for the residentials at the school in question for the compulsery brush up courses, plus travel, plus for the IR in uk airspace, approach fees, landing fees etc etc (as an example an approach and landing for the test centre at bournemouth is approx 67quid, then do the same again for your test and an approach else where... eeeeks..ouch)
I genuinely think that your estimate of 15,000 is quite untrue and if you add up the cost of everything including even travel to and from the US it will surprise you.
I would be interested to see where you get your calculations for the conversions from, would they be certain US school bidding fr your hard earned cash.
also to any estimate, especially at professional level you need to realistically add one third again.
BUT i do stand to be corrected as always
Goodluck TR
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Answers to your questions.
1. I received this email from sothend flying club for the IR conversion.
"""Sorry for the delay in replying.. CAA requirements are 10 HRS in multi
aircraft and 5HRS in sim plus check ride.
Course cost is #3725.00 plus fee to CAA of #637.00 and hire of aircraft
for check ride at #265.00/hr . The course fee includes landings and
instructor but for the check ride (quoted at solo rates) landing fees are extra."""
At some schools you can do 10 hours in the sim and 5 in the aircraft. Southends sim is not approved. That would bring the price down to below £3500 but I said £3500 to be safe. I know CAA fees are not included but the big integrated schools dont include them either!
2. JAA ATPL distance learning course.
http://nacgroundschool.com/dlcourse.htm
take a look US$ 1870 about GBP 1000. Does that answer your question about where you can do a course for that price. The big UK schools do not include exam fees either! That price includes the refresher if done in FL.
3. The MCC course for £1500. I will have to ask a guy at work where he did it as he told me about that price. Once I find out I will post it. I found one for £2300 http://www.multiflight.com/training/mcc.html
4. The CPL conversion, the CAA leaves it up to the school to decide how much training you need, I was quoted around £1000, again the big UK schools dont include CAA fees!
5. Living expenses, sorry I forgot it was free to live in England? The cost of living in the US is far cheaper than in the UK. I shared an apartment 5 mins from the airport, swimming pool, gym etc for US$200 a month. Food is also far cheaper. To get all the FAA ratings all the way to Comm IR multi takes about 4 months if you are really committed. You can also start studying for the JAA ATPL exams whilst there. You then return to the UK and get a job whilst finishing the distance course.
6. Lets assume it costs an extra £1000 pounds per check ride, in the US it is no where near that price (£400) but lets just say that for arguments sake. Thats £6000 so the total cost would go up to about £21,000 but remember most UK schools dont include those fees either. So you still have a saving of over £30,000. I am not trying to sell anything, I do not work for a school, I have nothing to gain from posting this. I just want people to be able to make an informed decision before paying over £50,000 to be in a position to apply for jobs that are very hard to get.
The savings are huge and you end up with the same license.
Travel costs to the us are not that much $400 return. It is cheaper to fly to Florida do 3 hours in a twin stay overnight in a hotel and fly back rather than do 3 hours in a twin in the UK.
Just thought I should add that in the US, you do not pay landing fees or approach fees or any other fee to use airfields. You can do approaches at international airports without having to pay a penny or phone them in advance. You would only be subject to that whilst doing the two conversions in the UK.
1. I received this email from sothend flying club for the IR conversion.
"""Sorry for the delay in replying.. CAA requirements are 10 HRS in multi
aircraft and 5HRS in sim plus check ride.
Course cost is #3725.00 plus fee to CAA of #637.00 and hire of aircraft
for check ride at #265.00/hr . The course fee includes landings and
instructor but for the check ride (quoted at solo rates) landing fees are extra."""
At some schools you can do 10 hours in the sim and 5 in the aircraft. Southends sim is not approved. That would bring the price down to below £3500 but I said £3500 to be safe. I know CAA fees are not included but the big integrated schools dont include them either!
2. JAA ATPL distance learning course.
http://nacgroundschool.com/dlcourse.htm
take a look US$ 1870 about GBP 1000. Does that answer your question about where you can do a course for that price. The big UK schools do not include exam fees either! That price includes the refresher if done in FL.
3. The MCC course for £1500. I will have to ask a guy at work where he did it as he told me about that price. Once I find out I will post it. I found one for £2300 http://www.multiflight.com/training/mcc.html
4. The CPL conversion, the CAA leaves it up to the school to decide how much training you need, I was quoted around £1000, again the big UK schools dont include CAA fees!
5. Living expenses, sorry I forgot it was free to live in England? The cost of living in the US is far cheaper than in the UK. I shared an apartment 5 mins from the airport, swimming pool, gym etc for US$200 a month. Food is also far cheaper. To get all the FAA ratings all the way to Comm IR multi takes about 4 months if you are really committed. You can also start studying for the JAA ATPL exams whilst there. You then return to the UK and get a job whilst finishing the distance course.
6. Lets assume it costs an extra £1000 pounds per check ride, in the US it is no where near that price (£400) but lets just say that for arguments sake. Thats £6000 so the total cost would go up to about £21,000 but remember most UK schools dont include those fees either. So you still have a saving of over £30,000. I am not trying to sell anything, I do not work for a school, I have nothing to gain from posting this. I just want people to be able to make an informed decision before paying over £50,000 to be in a position to apply for jobs that are very hard to get.
The savings are huge and you end up with the same license.
Travel costs to the us are not that much $400 return. It is cheaper to fly to Florida do 3 hours in a twin stay overnight in a hotel and fly back rather than do 3 hours in a twin in the UK.
Just thought I should add that in the US, you do not pay landing fees or approach fees or any other fee to use airfields. You can do approaches at international airports without having to pay a penny or phone them in advance. You would only be subject to that whilst doing the two conversions in the UK.
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You would not have to convert your FAA PPL into a JAA one as they are both ICAO and hence you can do the ATPL exams on the strength of that.
Also if you have the JAA ATPL exams in the bag first it exempts you from sitting some of the CPL/IR ground exams.
Also if you have the JAA ATPL exams in the bag first it exempts you from sitting some of the CPL/IR ground exams.
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I think you're mistaken about the cost of the conversion certainly as far as the flying tests go. I asked Bristol Flight Centre and Multiflight some months ago for the average conversion costs, they both reckon about £9K. Discussion here .
I notice you haven't actually done this for the costs you quote, your statement would carry a bit more weight if you had.
I notice you haven't actually done this for the costs you quote, your statement would carry a bit more weight if you had.
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I can concur with Alex. As a person dealing with people converting from FAA to JAA on a daily basis and seeing about 20-30 already complete this conversion this in 2005 I speak with some experience.
You costs are way off ! Be a lot more realistic with those prices, they are too low, and like I tell all people wishing to learn to fly its extremely rare for a person to make it through a course in minimum hours. I have seen FAA to JAA IR conversions take 40 hrs for a low time FAA pilot, which you will be if you follow your plan of attack.
Remember too, as part of a DL ATPL course there are mandatory pre exam prep courses that must be attended, so these need to be factored in, as well as accom and food costs during your times at the exam center ( unless of course you live beside one!) .
Have a better search through PPrune, and contact a couple more flight schools about the conversion, try and talk to schools who have actually put students through the conversion, or better off come and see us all at the Flight Training Show on March 19 at Heathrow!
Chris
You costs are way off ! Be a lot more realistic with those prices, they are too low, and like I tell all people wishing to learn to fly its extremely rare for a person to make it through a course in minimum hours. I have seen FAA to JAA IR conversions take 40 hrs for a low time FAA pilot, which you will be if you follow your plan of attack.
Remember too, as part of a DL ATPL course there are mandatory pre exam prep courses that must be attended, so these need to be factored in, as well as accom and food costs during your times at the exam center ( unless of course you live beside one!) .
Have a better search through PPrune, and contact a couple more flight schools about the conversion, try and talk to schools who have actually put students through the conversion, or better off come and see us all at the Flight Training Show on March 19 at Heathrow!
Chris
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The prices I have quoted were quoted to me from schools in the UK. Are they lying?
You are right, I have not done the conversion and hope I never have to but I did not make these prices up. I currently fly PIC in a twin turboprop on an N reg in the UK and hope to find an international job that doesn’t require JAA licenses, the search will begin in a few months. I found out the information in case I have no option other than the conversion. I know it would be hard for a low time pilot to complete in minimum hours but how many people fail their IR on an integrated course, is the retraining included? It is not for everyone and some parts would not be for me such as the distance learning, I would prefer to pay a bit extra and do a residential course, probably at Bristol or Cranfield. I am not trying to deceive people here I am just stating the facts. This IS the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL and it is possible. Even if you didn't do it in minimum hours you would have to be pretty crap to eat up even half of the money you saved, if you did you should probably look for another career. I am just providing information for people who are thinking of starting out as there are lots of people eager to get their hands on the mountains of money involved and who would not tell them every option. I however have nothing to gain
I just had to add this as it is so crazy.
"Even if you ate up half of the money you saved". Half the money is 15,000 pounds. Insane it is 15,000 pounds. Two and a half years rent where I live. A very nice second hand Porche. A cessna 152. 120 hours in a twin in the states!!!! It is a stupid ammount of money and that is only HALF of what you could save.
No mater what argument you use it would not change the fact that this is by far the cheapest way to get the license. Landing fees/ test fees/ accommodation/ flights to the US etc. It dosent matter you would still be saving a huge ammount of money. Also many of those costs are not included in the UK prices anyway so you would have to add them onto the £50,000 if you went integrated.
You are right, I have not done the conversion and hope I never have to but I did not make these prices up. I currently fly PIC in a twin turboprop on an N reg in the UK and hope to find an international job that doesn’t require JAA licenses, the search will begin in a few months. I found out the information in case I have no option other than the conversion. I know it would be hard for a low time pilot to complete in minimum hours but how many people fail their IR on an integrated course, is the retraining included? It is not for everyone and some parts would not be for me such as the distance learning, I would prefer to pay a bit extra and do a residential course, probably at Bristol or Cranfield. I am not trying to deceive people here I am just stating the facts. This IS the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL and it is possible. Even if you didn't do it in minimum hours you would have to be pretty crap to eat up even half of the money you saved, if you did you should probably look for another career. I am just providing information for people who are thinking of starting out as there are lots of people eager to get their hands on the mountains of money involved and who would not tell them every option. I however have nothing to gain
I just had to add this as it is so crazy.
"Even if you ate up half of the money you saved". Half the money is 15,000 pounds. Insane it is 15,000 pounds. Two and a half years rent where I live. A very nice second hand Porche. A cessna 152. 120 hours in a twin in the states!!!! It is a stupid ammount of money and that is only HALF of what you could save.
No mater what argument you use it would not change the fact that this is by far the cheapest way to get the license. Landing fees/ test fees/ accommodation/ flights to the US etc. It dosent matter you would still be saving a huge ammount of money. Also many of those costs are not included in the UK prices anyway so you would have to add them onto the £50,000 if you went integrated.
Last edited by moochooser; 9th Mar 2005 at 22:04.
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Paying 50k may be insane. Paying £35k is a bit more realistic. And your job prospects will also be more realistic. Can't imagine your chances will be good having only flown 10 hours in the UK. Also these are quoted minima. If you stripped a UK quote of Test fees, hire for test etc I'm sure it would look more like £28k. Plus you don't get treated like a criminal for trying to contribute to our economy - TSA rule!!!
What an idiotic, narrow minded thread this started as - I thought all the idiots had left prune, obviously not!
What an idiotic, narrow minded thread this started as - I thought all the idiots had left prune, obviously not!
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I geuss you work for a UK school and that is why you have a problem with this thread. As for the TSA rule, yes it is stupid, but why be patriotic about it as all you get in the UK is very badly ripped off by the schools and CAA. This is just information, I am not trying to sell anything. Obviously anyone who is planning to do it this way will do their own research and find out for themselves how much thay can save. I didn't find it too hard finding a job in the UK having never flown here.
As I said before the test fees in the US are less than £400. The two you have to do in the UK are say £2000 for arguments sake. The fees for the ATPL will eat up another couple of thousand at most. THERE ARE NO LANDING FEES OR APPROACH FEES IN THE US so that would not add to the cost.
You CAN save a huge ammount of money. I don\'t understand how people can argue about that.
As I said before the test fees in the US are less than £400. The two you have to do in the UK are say £2000 for arguments sake. The fees for the ATPL will eat up another couple of thousand at most. THERE ARE NO LANDING FEES OR APPROACH FEES IN THE US so that would not add to the cost.
You CAN save a huge ammount of money. I don\'t understand how people can argue about that.
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The MCC course for £1500. I will have to ask a guy at work where he did it as he told me about that price. Once I find out I will post it. I found one for £2300 http://www.multiflight.com/training/mcc.html
would be interested to find out where your guy at work did it for 1500
(7) Convert the FAA IR to JAA GBP 3500
at least 3725 + the extras as copied from an email below
Sorry for the delay in replying.. CAA requirements are 10 HRS in multi
aircraft and 5HRS in sim plus check ride.
Course cost is #3725.00 plus fee to CAA of #637.00 and hire of aircraft
for check ride at #265.00/hr . The course fee includes landings and
instructor but for the check ride (quoted at solo rates) landing fees are extra.
aircraft and 5HRS in sim plus check ride.
Course cost is #3725.00 plus fee to CAA of #637.00 and hire of aircraft
for check ride at #265.00/hr . The course fee includes landings and
instructor but for the check ride (quoted at solo rates) landing fees are extra.
I hope you do not think i am being annoying, but just do not want you to get the wrong idea, to get a JAR ATPL will cost you alot more than 15k, I PROMISE
The prices I have quoted were quoted to me from schools in the UK. Are they lying?
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As I said in an previous post. The quote for the IR conversion was with 10 hours in an aircraft as southends sim is not approved to do more than 5 hours. The actual minimums are 10 in sim and 5 in aircraft. I did not look into other schools as I was just trying to get a rough idea incase I need to convert. I assumed I could find it cheaper if 10 hours could be done in a sim.
I got to FAA Multi CPL IR for about US$13,000 it was a couple of years ago so rates have gone up a bit but not by much. Lets say it costs £10,000 to convert, have I not still saved alot of money? I don't understand why so many people seem to be trying to find holes in this. I am just trying to help people who are thinking of starting. Obviously they will do their own research on the matter.
Just out of interest what is the cheapest integrated ATPL course in the UK that includes ALL required fees and an MCC course.
Also do they provide accommodation and food in that price?
It would be interesting to know how many people who have replied are either conected in some way to a UK school or who did the integrated course and are having trouble finding a job.
This post was just intended to give people who want to be a pilot an obviously cheaper option to look into.
I got to FAA Multi CPL IR for about US$13,000 it was a couple of years ago so rates have gone up a bit but not by much. Lets say it costs £10,000 to convert, have I not still saved alot of money? I don't understand why so many people seem to be trying to find holes in this. I am just trying to help people who are thinking of starting. Obviously they will do their own research on the matter.
Just out of interest what is the cheapest integrated ATPL course in the UK that includes ALL required fees and an MCC course.
Also do they provide accommodation and food in that price?
It would be interesting to know how many people who have replied are either conected in some way to a UK school or who did the integrated course and are having trouble finding a job.
This post was just intended to give people who want to be a pilot an obviously cheaper option to look into.
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Silverknapper wrote:
What an idiotic, narrow minded thread this started as - I thought all the idiots had left prune, obviously not!
It is narrow minded to say something like that don't you think. Why not look at other options or are you that narrow minded. It is idiotioc to think people will not research it for themselves and they will find it is cheaper if they do.
What an idiotic, narrow minded thread this started as - I thought all the idiots had left prune, obviously not!
It is narrow minded to say something like that don't you think. Why not look at other options or are you that narrow minded. It is idiotioc to think people will not research it for themselves and they will find it is cheaper if they do.
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interesting post moochooser-
i have to say at times i have looked at the prices for training and have been amazed at the wide ranging prices for different training(CPL, IR etc)..
When it comes to getting value for money, i am the first person to try and sniff out a bargain and believe me when it comes to flying i have tried my best to do the same.
I am almost on the brink of finishing my ATPLs and have been looking into CPL/IR costs and am trying to figure out the cheapest way to do, while at the same time not selling myself short by choosing price over quality.
I see what u are saying that there are cheaper options out there and people should look into them before paying over the odds for what boils down to the same thing.
The one thing I think about ur figures-
mmmm they may be the prices u have been quoted by a school, but at the end of the day, these are based on minimums and by all accounts (I have spoken to a lot of people who have done conversions and people here have already stated this) things like FAA conversions generally take a lot longer than the minimums.
You also have not factored in exam fees for the conversion or a/c hire.
I am not criticising what you have said or anything like that, but i find that when a school is signifigantly cheaper than another, there is usually a catch.
The other thing is-
if you get a bunch of schools scattered around the world giving u good quotes like what u r stating,at times it is not worth hopping between cities for cheap training when ur overheads (flts etc) start to push ur outgoings up.
can i ask u-
where did u get the quote for a FAA CPL for $1300 and the ME/IR add on for $1800?
i have to say at times i have looked at the prices for training and have been amazed at the wide ranging prices for different training(CPL, IR etc)..
When it comes to getting value for money, i am the first person to try and sniff out a bargain and believe me when it comes to flying i have tried my best to do the same.
I am almost on the brink of finishing my ATPLs and have been looking into CPL/IR costs and am trying to figure out the cheapest way to do, while at the same time not selling myself short by choosing price over quality.
I see what u are saying that there are cheaper options out there and people should look into them before paying over the odds for what boils down to the same thing.
The one thing I think about ur figures-
mmmm they may be the prices u have been quoted by a school, but at the end of the day, these are based on minimums and by all accounts (I have spoken to a lot of people who have done conversions and people here have already stated this) things like FAA conversions generally take a lot longer than the minimums.
You also have not factored in exam fees for the conversion or a/c hire.
I am not criticising what you have said or anything like that, but i find that when a school is signifigantly cheaper than another, there is usually a catch.
The other thing is-
if you get a bunch of schools scattered around the world giving u good quotes like what u r stating,at times it is not worth hopping between cities for cheap training when ur overheads (flts etc) start to push ur outgoings up.
can i ask u-
where did u get the quote for a FAA CPL for $1300 and the ME/IR add on for $1800?
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People keep saying "don't forget food and living costs", it doesn't matter if your house in the UK is right next door to your flight school and you can walk to it, you will still have food and a mortgage/rent to pay for. Unless of course you still live at home with the olds.
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All FAA prices are from a school called Air Desert Pacific in Los Angeles. Their prices are not as good as they used to be so you could probably find it cheaper somewhere else. It is a cheap and cherfull place to learn. Planes are not as bad as some might say.
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please do not get me wrong i am not trying to make a mockery of your post, however the prices you originally quoted were not correct and indeed you have now corrected most of them by saying they were old, or from a friend, or based on a school in the uk doing it on sim.. etc..
one of the most soul destroying facts in aviation is that someone cannot start their dream to become an airline pilot purely due to the lack of money or ability to get it. They may be the most able pilot(s) in the world.
I just thought your post
This is the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL
would give false hope to some of these people who might set off down this road and perhaps get half way through the IR and run out of money as it has cost alot more than they thought. Indeed MY IR has now cost 18,000 so far.
welld one on taking the time to put all this together, however i do think if you take into account travel, living costs,food,conversions,tests,even the licence fee from the CAA is rediculous just to print out your CPL, you are realistically looking at ATLEAST 30K for a fATPL.
goodluck
one of the most soul destroying facts in aviation is that someone cannot start their dream to become an airline pilot purely due to the lack of money or ability to get it. They may be the most able pilot(s) in the world.
I just thought your post
This is the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL
would give false hope to some of these people who might set off down this road and perhaps get half way through the IR and run out of money as it has cost alot more than they thought. Indeed MY IR has now cost 18,000 so far.
welld one on taking the time to put all this together, however i do think if you take into account travel, living costs,food,conversions,tests,even the licence fee from the CAA is rediculous just to print out your CPL, you are realistically looking at ATLEAST 30K for a fATPL.
goodluck
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Which price did I say was old? The only one I said was from a friend was £500 less than what I found after looking for one minuite. Why do people keep going on about living costs? You have to live in England also.
I don't think anyone would go down this road without researching it for themselves. There is no way that this route would cost £30,000. Do UK schools include all the fees?
I don't think anyone would go down this road without researching it for themselves. There is no way that this route would cost £30,000. Do UK schools include all the fees?
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Having completed my training in the US up to CPL ME/IR, I have been interested to see the amount of scepticism with which this thread is being viewed.
I completed my FAA training on a budget of £13000.
That included all fees, living and travel expenses....Oh yeah, and a Suzuki TL1000R to play on for the time I was there.
After I completed my training, and a not too lengthy search, I landed myself a job in a C182. (Unpaid of course
)
I returned to England a little over £10000 poorer, but with 750 hours under my belt. I sold the bike for a little more than I bought it for.
Since my return at the end of last year, I have been looking into conversion. (although not very actively), This is what Ive been quoted for the entire conversion:
JAA ATPL Theoretical Training. 25 weeks £ 4,245.00
CAA Examinations 14 £55.00 each £ 770.00
Training as required to pass CPL skills test Approx 5 hours £234.00 / hr £ 1,170.00
CPL Skills Test Direct to CAA £ 637.00
Aircraft hire for test Approx 2 hours £177.00 / hr £ 354.00
MEPL skills test In house examiner £ 125.00
Aircraft hire for test Approx 1.2 hours £260.00 / hr £ 312.00
Minimum of 15 hours IR training 5 hrs BE76 £343.00 / hr £ 1,715.00
10 hrs FNPT 2 £145.00 / hr £ 1,450.00
IR Flight test Direct to CAA £ 637.00
Aircraft hire for test Approx 2 hours £260.00 / hr £ 520.00
TOTAL £11,935.00
I know I could save a lot by doing a distance course, but this is just the way the quote came.
Now, before anyone starts repeating themselves about how no one ever passes in the minimum time, let me just point a couple of things out.
I chose to take the FAA Instrument rating in a Seneca and had absolutely no trouble whatsoever. If you can pass the FAA ME/IR, why not the JAA?
Forget about the minimum training, I could pass the test Today. Unless of course Im overlooking a fundamental reason why Flying on instruments is harder in the UK.
The key is not to waste youre hour building time in the states. Use it to practice approaches instead of just pounding it out on monotonous cross country flights.
So, I'm not going to assume that anyone will go out of their way to find a job in the states after their training and just add up the costs.
Go to the states and return 6 months later with FAA CPL ME/IR and 250hours....£11000
Convert to JAA without needing extra training (And why the hell would you?).......£11935
So, we're looking at £23000 without the discount for a distance learning course.
Ive known that I wanted to be a pilot for as long as I can remember. Ive known that I wouldnt be learning to do that in the UK since I first saw the price of training here.
It is disgustingly over priced and is a barrier between those of us with shallow pockets and our dreams of a life in aviation. It almost seems as if its set up to keep the riff raff out of the skies or something.
In America, If you want to fly you can. A person of average means can even fly for PLEASURE!!! For Pleasure for gods sake. Imagine being able to hire an aircraft and fly over to france for the weekend without spending 2 weeks salary. In the US you can do it for 2 days salary! (not france of course, but a similar journey.)
The sooner people realise that their goals can be accomplished without having to pay these amounts the better.
Who knows, maybe we'll see a drop in the cost of flight training in the UK.
www.universalairacademy.com has aircraft for $50 wet.
whats that, just under £30?
This thread is as far as I know, very appropriately titled.
This IS the cheapest way to do it.
Im sorry to hear that its cost you so much, If only this thread had come about sooner.
I completed my FAA training on a budget of £13000.
That included all fees, living and travel expenses....Oh yeah, and a Suzuki TL1000R to play on for the time I was there.
After I completed my training, and a not too lengthy search, I landed myself a job in a C182. (Unpaid of course
)I returned to England a little over £10000 poorer, but with 750 hours under my belt. I sold the bike for a little more than I bought it for.
Since my return at the end of last year, I have been looking into conversion. (although not very actively), This is what Ive been quoted for the entire conversion:
JAA ATPL Theoretical Training. 25 weeks £ 4,245.00
CAA Examinations 14 £55.00 each £ 770.00
Training as required to pass CPL skills test Approx 5 hours £234.00 / hr £ 1,170.00
CPL Skills Test Direct to CAA £ 637.00
Aircraft hire for test Approx 2 hours £177.00 / hr £ 354.00
MEPL skills test In house examiner £ 125.00
Aircraft hire for test Approx 1.2 hours £260.00 / hr £ 312.00
Minimum of 15 hours IR training 5 hrs BE76 £343.00 / hr £ 1,715.00
10 hrs FNPT 2 £145.00 / hr £ 1,450.00
IR Flight test Direct to CAA £ 637.00
Aircraft hire for test Approx 2 hours £260.00 / hr £ 520.00
TOTAL £11,935.00
I know I could save a lot by doing a distance course, but this is just the way the quote came.
Now, before anyone starts repeating themselves about how no one ever passes in the minimum time, let me just point a couple of things out.
I chose to take the FAA Instrument rating in a Seneca and had absolutely no trouble whatsoever. If you can pass the FAA ME/IR, why not the JAA?
Forget about the minimum training, I could pass the test Today. Unless of course Im overlooking a fundamental reason why Flying on instruments is harder in the UK.
The key is not to waste youre hour building time in the states. Use it to practice approaches instead of just pounding it out on monotonous cross country flights.
So, I'm not going to assume that anyone will go out of their way to find a job in the states after their training and just add up the costs.
Go to the states and return 6 months later with FAA CPL ME/IR and 250hours....£11000
Convert to JAA without needing extra training (And why the hell would you?).......£11935
So, we're looking at £23000 without the discount for a distance learning course.
Ive known that I wanted to be a pilot for as long as I can remember. Ive known that I wouldnt be learning to do that in the UK since I first saw the price of training here.
It is disgustingly over priced and is a barrier between those of us with shallow pockets and our dreams of a life in aviation. It almost seems as if its set up to keep the riff raff out of the skies or something.
In America, If you want to fly you can. A person of average means can even fly for PLEASURE!!! For Pleasure for gods sake. Imagine being able to hire an aircraft and fly over to france for the weekend without spending 2 weeks salary. In the US you can do it for 2 days salary! (not france of course, but a similar journey.)
The sooner people realise that their goals can be accomplished without having to pay these amounts the better.
Who knows, maybe we'll see a drop in the cost of flight training in the UK.
www.universalairacademy.com has aircraft for $50 wet.
whats that, just under £30?
I just thought your post
This is the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL
would give false hope to some of these people who might set off down this road and perhaps get half way through the IR and run out of money as it has cost alot more than they thought.
This is the cheapest way to get a JAA ATPL
would give false hope to some of these people who might set off down this road and perhaps get half way through the IR and run out of money as it has cost alot more than they thought.
This IS the cheapest way to do it.
Im sorry to hear that its cost you so much, If only this thread had come about sooner.
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NDB Intercepting and tracking is part of the FAA practical test standards.
I dont think holding at an NDB is part of the check ride (I may be wrong, but I didnt do it), but if you know youll be doing it in britain, you can practice it in the states whilst time is cheap.
Any way you look at it, if you plan your training carefully, theres no reason why 15 hours extra won't be more than enough to prepare you for the JAA test.
I dont think holding at an NDB is part of the check ride (I may be wrong, but I didnt do it), but if you know youll be doing it in britain, you can practice it in the states whilst time is cheap.
Any way you look at it, if you plan your training carefully, theres no reason why 15 hours extra won't be more than enough to prepare you for the JAA test.