failed 14 exams and redo the all session?
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failed 14 exams and redo the all session?
do you know anyone who failed the 14 atpl, or who had to repass all. what was the reason?
when I was at the test center, I have met few guys who have passed their exam first time,(normal! why they are back)!!!. most failed 4-5-6 exams on the 14.
I passed all by chance.
when I was at the test center, I have met few guys who have passed their exam first time,(normal! why they are back)!!!. most failed 4-5-6 exams on the 14.
I passed all by chance.
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Ive met a few people who have been on their last attempt at a certain exam having already passed the other 13!!
Some of em sat their exams the same day as me at Silsoe!! Needless to say there was a certain pungent odour in the air that day
Some of em sat their exams the same day as me at Silsoe!! Needless to say there was a certain pungent odour in the air that day
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I went to a ground school in the midlands and there was a guy there that sat at the back of the class farting and throwing paper at people all day long. After module one he passed one of the comms exams then went on to re-do the first module again. This time he passed the other comms exam and failed the rest...... again!
To this day the school and students on that course have not heard from him.
To clarify; this is not a slur on the school as the majority of people did very well there on both modules..... Including myself.
To this day the school and students on that course have not heard from him.
To clarify; this is not a slur on the school as the majority of people did very well there on both modules..... Including myself.
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This is going to sound harsh, but people should absolutely not be failing '4-5-6 exams on the 14'. The subjects are not diffucult, there is just a hell of a lot of information, and if someone doesn't have the time, the resources, or the will to get their head down and pass the vast majority if not all their exams at the first attempt, they should save their money and concentrate on a different career. Of course there are sometimes slip-ups and unexpectedly difficult papers, but these should only ever result in one or two not being passed.
Whoever thinks taking several months to study for and then sit fourteen exams is hard, they're going to get a big shock when they get two weeks or even just one to both pass a type-rating ground school and do sim prep at the same time.
It's a tough world out there trying to get a job. When it comes to low-hours pilots airlines are likely to recruit: First, those who know someone or have been recommended, and second, those who did extremely well in their courses and are the least likely to present problems in training.
abra
Whoever thinks taking several months to study for and then sit fourteen exams is hard, they're going to get a big shock when they get two weeks or even just one to both pass a type-rating ground school and do sim prep at the same time.
It's a tough world out there trying to get a job. When it comes to low-hours pilots airlines are likely to recruit: First, those who know someone or have been recommended, and second, those who did extremely well in their courses and are the least likely to present problems in training.
abra
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Abra - if you don't know anything about the subject in hand, it is better not to interrupt and broadcast your ignorance, but to keep silent and let other people who have a useful contribution to make discuss the issue. Up to 6 failed exams first time is not exceptional at all (in any school). 12 failed first time is a different case.
I give a lot of private tuition, so have known students who have been in the positions described (even the "13 passed, second time around, last attempt on one") who have gone on to get good jobs. In fact the three people who spring most quickly to mind who have received job offers or started training recently have all been required to resit some or all of the exams.
The airlines are not looking for first-time passes in groundschool. They are looking for people they can happily fly with, live with down-route and who they can train (as you would know, if you listened to the answer given by the man sitting next to me at the Flyer exhibition). These people have one thing in common: they were 3 of the most likeable students we have taught.
I give a lot of private tuition, so have known students who have been in the positions described (even the "13 passed, second time around, last attempt on one") who have gone on to get good jobs. In fact the three people who spring most quickly to mind who have received job offers or started training recently have all been required to resit some or all of the exams.
The airlines are not looking for first-time passes in groundschool. They are looking for people they can happily fly with, live with down-route and who they can train (as you would know, if you listened to the answer given by the man sitting next to me at the Flyer exhibition). These people have one thing in common: they were 3 of the most likeable students we have taught.
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Thanks for that, Send Clowns...I didnt exactly shine during exam time but got them all passed eventually so its good to hear recruitment isnt based on academic performance alone. Im sure that there are plenty of guys like me out there who scrape through in the end and will be just as good pilots as those who get all 14 first time. Even if i had done all 14 first time, I wouldnt be on pprune trying to belittle others who have worked their guts out so I could feel superior to them.
Abracadabra. I wanna reach out and grab ya!
Abracadabra. I wanna reach out and grab ya!
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Abra, I don't know your position in life and aviation (your profile is remarkably uninformative), but you really are quite wrong.
I am continually amazed at the number of Wannabes contributors who claim to 'know what airlines want' from their applicants. The amount of crap spouted about exam passes, the 'right' schools, etc. would be amusing if it wasn't so bloody misleading. Please listen to those of us that have been there and got the T shirt, and not to those who are pushing theories gleaned from flight school crewroom and bar discussions.
You should even take anything your school says about airline requirements with a huge dose of salt. For a start, the school will tend to put a gloss on its own contribution to the process, but further than that: how many of those instructing you (ground or flight) have actually been airline pilots? They may be excellent instructors, but unless they've been on the business end of an airline (or military) selection process, their pronouncements about airline (or military) recruiting can be no better than received opinion.
So, let's get this straight: exam passes are rarely, if ever, taken into account by airline recruiters (though they may have some influence on some of the TRTOs' selection processes). Which school you went to is not important. All we generally care about is that you have the licence, the medical, the hours we ask for, the ability to pass the sim check, and we think we can live with you in the other seat of our office for up to 14 hours at a stretch. That, basically, is it.
Scroggs
I am continually amazed at the number of Wannabes contributors who claim to 'know what airlines want' from their applicants. The amount of crap spouted about exam passes, the 'right' schools, etc. would be amusing if it wasn't so bloody misleading. Please listen to those of us that have been there and got the T shirt, and not to those who are pushing theories gleaned from flight school crewroom and bar discussions.
You should even take anything your school says about airline requirements with a huge dose of salt. For a start, the school will tend to put a gloss on its own contribution to the process, but further than that: how many of those instructing you (ground or flight) have actually been airline pilots? They may be excellent instructors, but unless they've been on the business end of an airline (or military) selection process, their pronouncements about airline (or military) recruiting can be no better than received opinion.
So, let's get this straight: exam passes are rarely, if ever, taken into account by airline recruiters (though they may have some influence on some of the TRTOs' selection processes). Which school you went to is not important. All we generally care about is that you have the licence, the medical, the hours we ask for, the ability to pass the sim check, and we think we can live with you in the other seat of our office for up to 14 hours at a stretch. That, basically, is it.
Scroggs
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ATPL(H)
Hi All,
I read this thread with a horrible feeling in my stomach. I am just about to embark on the ATPL(H) modular course, and I am terrified of what to expect. I will say that as you get a little older studying becomes harder, academically I do struggle, but I am willing to try hard.
I have read that quite a few people are failing these exams, and are having to retake them. I'm basically throwing all my savings into these. Can anyone offer any well timed advice as to how I should attack this.
Well done to all who pass this course by the sounds of it, it is well deserved.
Darren
I read this thread with a horrible feeling in my stomach. I am just about to embark on the ATPL(H) modular course, and I am terrified of what to expect. I will say that as you get a little older studying becomes harder, academically I do struggle, but I am willing to try hard.
I have read that quite a few people are failing these exams, and are having to retake them. I'm basically throwing all my savings into these. Can anyone offer any well timed advice as to how I should attack this.
Well done to all who pass this course by the sounds of it, it is well deserved.
Darren
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Don't panic, Darren. I have taught someone who is a regular contributor here who had been in largely manual work for over 20 years and passed all 14 first time, with good marks. If you work hard and are reasonably bright then you will be unlikely to struggle too much. The students I have encountered that struggled most spent way too much time in For Your Eyes Only.
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All 14 exams are 'passable' with the right amount of work....Put the effort in and you will get the result!.......Sit at the back of class farting and dicking about then you'll struggle on the test day!
I have seen people with manual backgrounds study their neck off and go on to pass all 14!!
I have also seen people with degrees from reputable Universities go on and fail them!! Mainly because of dicking about in class!!!
Hope that helps!
I have seen people with manual backgrounds study their neck off and go on to pass all 14!!
I have also seen people with degrees from reputable Universities go on and fail them!! Mainly because of dicking about in class!!!
Hope that helps!
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I agree essentially with everything that Send Clowns and Scroggs have said here. I have my exams now but it wasn't easy at the time for two reasons; I had been out of studying for some time and one of the subjects kept eluding me by the dreaded 1-2% (isn't 74% a killer?!). Most of the subjects I coped very well with, but I really should have sought more specialist help at the time rather than suffering further failures by reading through the same material and giving it another shot. It really does boil down to hard work, having a good studying technique and knowing when you need that extra help. If you do fail an exam or two the pressure that you put yourself under at the time doesn't help! I’m sure that the same is true of the flying tests – not everyone gets a first time pass in their IR!!
I now recruit pilots’ worldwide and I have never asked one of them if they passed their written exams/flight tests first time. As Scroggs suggests we are interested in the licence, medical, flying hours and whether you would ‘fit in’ more than anything else. Gaining your licences is one thing, getting a flying job is another – now if someone could help me on that one I’d be grateful… Good luck everyone!
I now recruit pilots’ worldwide and I have never asked one of them if they passed their written exams/flight tests first time. As Scroggs suggests we are interested in the licence, medical, flying hours and whether you would ‘fit in’ more than anything else. Gaining your licences is one thing, getting a flying job is another – now if someone could help me on that one I’d be grateful… Good luck everyone!
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bad credit
Did said person dribble alot and have ginger hair?
If so he did a brush up course with OAT and failed them all again.
Some exams he managed to beat the laws of statistics and got less than 25%.
He has now sold all his flying gear and was last heard of using his family name to secure directorships on various companys up North.
Actually he isn't that bad, lots of things were against him from a very early age, apart from his hair colour. Once his maturity reaches double figures he may appear again but it has been explained to him that life as a career FO won't be as fun as he thinks.
MJ
Did said person dribble alot and have ginger hair?
If so he did a brush up course with OAT and failed them all again.
Some exams he managed to beat the laws of statistics and got less than 25%.
He has now sold all his flying gear and was last heard of using his family name to secure directorships on various companys up North.
Actually he isn't that bad, lots of things were against him from a very early age, apart from his hair colour. Once his maturity reaches double figures he may appear again but it has been explained to him that life as a career FO won't be as fun as he thinks.
MJ
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Sorry to diverge!
Hmmmmm......Ginger hair, Dribbling alot, school in Midlands, maybe an obsession with radios could be added....something fishy there!! was it early 02 by any chance?
if so said person is a prime candidate as to why money cant buy you through aviation. Lord only knows why you would want to try to!
Hmmmmm......Ginger hair, Dribbling alot, school in Midlands, maybe an obsession with radios could be added....something fishy there!! was it early 02 by any chance?
if so said person is a prime candidate as to why money cant buy you through aviation. Lord only knows why you would want to try to!
yes i think we are talking the same person. Join Date: Jul 2003
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Hi all
Interesting post, I think both sides of the argument carry relevant points. Namely it's not all on academic performance but at the same time the airlines need to start somewhere.
We know certain airlines have average %'s they look for and no more than X resists, as any more than this "could", (not does, but could) show a potential training/hence cost risk for type rating days. (what abra is saying)
However get through that part of selection then other qualities are priority, can you fly and do you actually have a personality (likeable) or are you just an academic cyborg who can ace everything but has not chat for 4 hours on a flight or down route.
The unfortunate fact is I think that initial selections have to be based on something they can see, I guess that's academic performance, get through that then it's tme to shine on the other fronts. As I/abra say - if you have difficulty with the volume of information then an employer may view that as a potential risk.
Just my thoughts on the subject for what it's worth. no offence to anyone.
ta ta
Interesting post, I think both sides of the argument carry relevant points. Namely it's not all on academic performance but at the same time the airlines need to start somewhere.
We know certain airlines have average %'s they look for and no more than X resists, as any more than this "could", (not does, but could) show a potential training/hence cost risk for type rating days. (what abra is saying)
However get through that part of selection then other qualities are priority, can you fly and do you actually have a personality (likeable) or are you just an academic cyborg who can ace everything but has not chat for 4 hours on a flight or down route.
The unfortunate fact is I think that initial selections have to be based on something they can see, I guess that's academic performance, get through that then it's tme to shine on the other fronts. As I/abra say - if you have difficulty with the volume of information then an employer may view that as a potential risk.
Just my thoughts on the subject for what it's worth. no offence to anyone.
ta ta
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I think you will be suprised how few airlines actually ask you about your ATPL results. I wasn't asked for mine when i got my current job. Or for that matter if i got a first time pass or not for my flight tests.
MJ
MJ
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flystudent wrote:
Interesting post, I think both sides of the argument carry relevant points. Namely it's not all on academic performance but at the same time the airlines need to start somewhere.
We know certain airlines have average %'s they look for and no more than X resists, as any more than this "could", (not does, but could) show a potential training/hence cost risk for type rating days. (what abra is saying)
However get through that part of selection then other qualities are priority, can you fly and do you actually have a personality (likeable) or are you just an academic cyborg who can ace everything but has not chat for 4 hours on a flight or down route.
The unfortunate fact is I think that initial selections have to be based on something they can see, I guess that's academic performance, get through that then it's tme to shine on the other fronts. As I/abra say - if you have difficulty with the volume of information then an employer may view that as a potential risk.
Interesting post, I think both sides of the argument carry relevant points. Namely it's not all on academic performance but at the same time the airlines need to start somewhere.
We know certain airlines have average %'s they look for and no more than X resists, as any more than this "could", (not does, but could) show a potential training/hence cost risk for type rating days. (what abra is saying)
However get through that part of selection then other qualities are priority, can you fly and do you actually have a personality (likeable) or are you just an academic cyborg who can ace everything but has not chat for 4 hours on a flight or down route.
The unfortunate fact is I think that initial selections have to be based on something they can see, I guess that's academic performance, get through that then it's tme to shine on the other fronts. As I/abra say - if you have difficulty with the volume of information then an employer may view that as a potential risk.
Scroggs
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Scroggs I have no problem sharing what I have been told. But can't help but feel your email was written in a somewhat sarcastic nature. If it wasnt then I apologise, and if it was then I trust the following will be enough to receive an apology from you as I have fully justified my previous statement.
I am an integrated student at oxford and as such am trying to find out all I can on specific airlines requirements via direct contact rather than word of mouth. I have not attened selection procedures and I am passing on the information that was given to me.
The information was first hand to me about 4 weeks ago, I had heard it before through rumour but decided to speak to one of the senior people in recruitment directly at British Airways with regards to their employment of low hour Integrated student. This is what he told me.
1. Looking for 85% + average in ground studies
2. Dont like to see more than 4-5 resits
3. Looking for a first series pass in the skill tests (first time pass, partial then pass or fail then pass)
he went on to talk about the types of individuals etc, but the above point 1-3 is what I commented on in my previous post. If you choose not to believe it that's your choice.
___________________________________________
Madjock
Yes I probably will be suprised, dont take anything for granted these days , unless of course it comes from the horses mouth as in the fact from above, which is relevant directly to BA.
ta ta
I am an integrated student at oxford and as such am trying to find out all I can on specific airlines requirements via direct contact rather than word of mouth. I have not attened selection procedures and I am passing on the information that was given to me.
The information was first hand to me about 4 weeks ago, I had heard it before through rumour but decided to speak to one of the senior people in recruitment directly at British Airways with regards to their employment of low hour Integrated student. This is what he told me.
1. Looking for 85% + average in ground studies
2. Dont like to see more than 4-5 resits
3. Looking for a first series pass in the skill tests (first time pass, partial then pass or fail then pass)
he went on to talk about the types of individuals etc, but the above point 1-3 is what I commented on in my previous post. If you choose not to believe it that's your choice.
___________________________________________
Madjock
Yes I probably will be suprised, dont take anything for granted these days , unless of course it comes from the horses mouth as in the fact from above, which is relevant directly to BA.
ta ta
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O well its not really going to effect you then.
Chances of BA recruiting low hour intergrated students currently?
H'mm oxford say they will be providing for BA?
I think both partys marketing deptments are guilty as usual.
That is quite a broad spectrum of passes and is actually less than quite alot of companys who take low houred FO's direct onto jet. And I suspect that over 90% of wannabies out there will meet that criteria.
What they havn't told you about is all the real things they are looking for. And when it all boils down to it they are only reducing the numbers that they will interview.
Which is why most companys will fast track known characters who have personal references from flight crew through selection. Its more important to the companys to have nice chaps on the flight deck than stroppy prats. They are more interested on how quickly you learn in the sim and your CRM than how good your actual flying is.
Of course that is only my opinion every airline is different every Captain that takes the sim session will be different etc etc.
Its a bastard I know but you would be better to start to drink in the right pubs and get your face know at the right GA airfields than worry about getting the correct numbers. Do your very best don't aim for presumed goals which are usually not known by the company until ops suddenly says O ****** we havn't enough flight crew.
MJ
Chances of BA recruiting low hour intergrated students currently?
H'mm oxford say they will be providing for BA?
I think both partys marketing deptments are guilty as usual.
Looking for a first series pass in the skill tests (first time pass, partial then pass or fail then pass)
What they havn't told you about is all the real things they are looking for. And when it all boils down to it they are only reducing the numbers that they will interview.
Which is why most companys will fast track known characters who have personal references from flight crew through selection. Its more important to the companys to have nice chaps on the flight deck than stroppy prats. They are more interested on how quickly you learn in the sim and your CRM than how good your actual flying is.
Of course that is only my opinion every airline is different every Captain that takes the sim session will be different etc etc.
Its a bastard I know but you would be better to start to drink in the right pubs and get your face know at the right GA airfields than worry about getting the correct numbers. Do your very best don't aim for presumed goals which are usually not known by the company until ops suddenly says O ****** we havn't enough flight crew.
MJ