Do you really Want to Do This...??
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unfortunately only you can decide if you want to continue or not. whether or not you are up-to-it is only something you can decide...parents and friends will never be able to understand...only judge; and they judge using all the misconceptions the public has about pilots. That said i would definitely get some kind of educational back up. what would you do if you lost your medical or had an accident and couldn't fly again...you'd be screwed. plenty of pilots who go to the airlines have some skeletons in the closet...you wont be the first nor the last. Do what feels right in your gut but ALWAYS have a back up plan...just in case 
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Tamar217 - Don't worry about failing anything. At one point whilst trying to find a way into aviation I thought that ATC was a good way to go until I could afford to fund flight training. However, I failed the ATC entrance exams somehow! Largely down to not really applying myself 100% because it wasn't actually what I wanted to be doing.
Yes I've done some growing up since then but even so I was gutted at the time. But what else could I expect having not worked at it.
My parents were dissapointed with me when I announced that I was boldly binning my current career to go off into a world of uncertainty and hurrendous debt but they got over it when they saw how hard I worked to get where I am now.
Bottom line, don't give up fella. I remember being 18 and all so eager to get onto a training course so I know exactly how you're feeling. Just plug away at it, find and speak to as many different sources of info as possible to get the whole picture. From that you can decide what best for YOU.
That's what I did anyway. Hope this helps!
Chris
Yes I've done some growing up since then but even so I was gutted at the time. But what else could I expect having not worked at it.
My parents were dissapointed with me when I announced that I was boldly binning my current career to go off into a world of uncertainty and hurrendous debt but they got over it when they saw how hard I worked to get where I am now.
Bottom line, don't give up fella. I remember being 18 and all so eager to get onto a training course so I know exactly how you're feeling. Just plug away at it, find and speak to as many different sources of info as possible to get the whole picture. From that you can decide what best for YOU.
That's what I did anyway. Hope this helps!
Chris
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Tamar217,
I wouldn't get too worried at failing grading, or using it as an indicator for your ultimate aptitude for flying.
Military aviation is tremendously demanding and the training has a finite amount of money and time to train some one to operate a high performance dynamically unstable helicopter at night in appalling weather from a small flight deck off the back end of a frigate. It is a very different type of flying from airlines and they push people very hard from the outset to ensure only the best potential pilots get the vast amounts of money spent on them.
However, military aviation is a very very small percentage of the overall flying community.
Likewise, in the early stages of a PPL, most people find the going tough. If you take significantly more than 45 hours to complete the PPL however, I would seriously look at the viability of becoming a professional pilot. Taking 15 hours more at PPL, then CPL, then IR with addition costs for re-sits can very quickly mount up financially and would be quickly noticed by prospective employers.
Only you will know whether or not pursuing the dream is viable because at the end of the day some very fine gems can be hewn from the roughest looking rocks. There is no substitute for the learning gained from experience and so 200 hours down the line you may well achieve a good standard as a commercial licenced instrument rated pilot.
However, my simple advice is that if you still look back after a rough, demanding, poor performance and hard working flight and still want to get back in the aircraft at the first available opportunity, the flying bug has well and truly bitten. Whether you fly for fun as a PPL or professionally is however the much harder decision that only you can make.
Regards
Obs cop
I wouldn't get too worried at failing grading, or using it as an indicator for your ultimate aptitude for flying.
Military aviation is tremendously demanding and the training has a finite amount of money and time to train some one to operate a high performance dynamically unstable helicopter at night in appalling weather from a small flight deck off the back end of a frigate. It is a very different type of flying from airlines and they push people very hard from the outset to ensure only the best potential pilots get the vast amounts of money spent on them.
However, military aviation is a very very small percentage of the overall flying community.
Likewise, in the early stages of a PPL, most people find the going tough. If you take significantly more than 45 hours to complete the PPL however, I would seriously look at the viability of becoming a professional pilot. Taking 15 hours more at PPL, then CPL, then IR with addition costs for re-sits can very quickly mount up financially and would be quickly noticed by prospective employers.
Only you will know whether or not pursuing the dream is viable because at the end of the day some very fine gems can be hewn from the roughest looking rocks. There is no substitute for the learning gained from experience and so 200 hours down the line you may well achieve a good standard as a commercial licenced instrument rated pilot.
However, my simple advice is that if you still look back after a rough, demanding, poor performance and hard working flight and still want to get back in the aircraft at the first available opportunity, the flying bug has well and truly bitten. Whether you fly for fun as a PPL or professionally is however the much harder decision that only you can make.
Regards
Obs cop
Dear Tamar 17,
From what you have said so far I would agree with the other posters that you certainly have been bitten by the flying bug! and in fact I would say that you have already shown the chief qualification for an aviation career - a true love of flying.
I am now a career helicopter pilot and have had some fantastic experiences flying in amazing locations around the world. I wake up in the morning and (weather permitting!) literally cannot wait to go flying! I love the feeling of 'blasting off' from an airfield or helipad early in the morning and heading out for a day of challenging, true avaition, far above my cares and worries on the ground. True, it is a form of escapism but to me it feels like such a natural environment that I never for one moment have questioned my choice; in fact now I am more worried that I might not be fit for anything else! (motivation wise).
Don't worry about your parents thinking you are in some sort of daydream, mine were the same; it sounds like yours can't really understand your passion for flight; they are perplexed. To some, flying will always be seen as a sort of juvenile endeavour a waste of talent and ability which could usefully be employed elsewhere in professions and industries with more social cachet and better prospects. You will have to live with the fact that many people, even your nearest and dearest, do not take aviation as a career seriously, unless it is wrapped in some conventional cover such as Airline jet pilot/Military pilot, (where the respectability of the institution lends credibility).
If it is any consolation, I was in the military but was rejected for flying training despite passing the OASC tests several times (RAF Flying Scholarship, AAC) and also passed flying grading on Chipmunks. I am still not sure why I was ultimately rejected (not too impressive on the final interview! and no degree maybe, plus those of my fellow candidates who did get on the APC were, I have to say, extremely impressive individuals!). The point is that I still loved flying and although one avenue had closed, I then set off down an alternative route but with the same overall goal. That is what you must do (sounds like you're doing it already!). There is a huge amount of randomness in life and flying is no exception; just having flying ability is no guarantee of anything, luck and persistance are equally (more?) important. Remain positive! time will give you perspective. You can't just 'turn off' a fascination with flight!
I know it can seem depressing now that the military has denied you, you will have to fork out huge amounts of money, probably get into debt and have a number of years living in near poverty; but the rewards are there just the same, it will just take a little longer! In fact there is really a lot more opportunity in civvy street, a lot more variety and lot less artificial constraints; you are much more a master of your own destiny. There is a worthwhile and rewarding career for you, but you have to pursue it with vigour. Don't give up and you will find that you will enjoy a fascinating career that will be deeply satisfying and rewarding, and great fun!
Flug
From what you have said so far I would agree with the other posters that you certainly have been bitten by the flying bug! and in fact I would say that you have already shown the chief qualification for an aviation career - a true love of flying.
I am now a career helicopter pilot and have had some fantastic experiences flying in amazing locations around the world. I wake up in the morning and (weather permitting!) literally cannot wait to go flying! I love the feeling of 'blasting off' from an airfield or helipad early in the morning and heading out for a day of challenging, true avaition, far above my cares and worries on the ground. True, it is a form of escapism but to me it feels like such a natural environment that I never for one moment have questioned my choice; in fact now I am more worried that I might not be fit for anything else! (motivation wise).
Don't worry about your parents thinking you are in some sort of daydream, mine were the same; it sounds like yours can't really understand your passion for flight; they are perplexed. To some, flying will always be seen as a sort of juvenile endeavour a waste of talent and ability which could usefully be employed elsewhere in professions and industries with more social cachet and better prospects. You will have to live with the fact that many people, even your nearest and dearest, do not take aviation as a career seriously, unless it is wrapped in some conventional cover such as Airline jet pilot/Military pilot, (where the respectability of the institution lends credibility).
If it is any consolation, I was in the military but was rejected for flying training despite passing the OASC tests several times (RAF Flying Scholarship, AAC) and also passed flying grading on Chipmunks. I am still not sure why I was ultimately rejected (not too impressive on the final interview! and no degree maybe, plus those of my fellow candidates who did get on the APC were, I have to say, extremely impressive individuals!). The point is that I still loved flying and although one avenue had closed, I then set off down an alternative route but with the same overall goal. That is what you must do (sounds like you're doing it already!). There is a huge amount of randomness in life and flying is no exception; just having flying ability is no guarantee of anything, luck and persistance are equally (more?) important. Remain positive! time will give you perspective. You can't just 'turn off' a fascination with flight!
I know it can seem depressing now that the military has denied you, you will have to fork out huge amounts of money, probably get into debt and have a number of years living in near poverty; but the rewards are there just the same, it will just take a little longer! In fact there is really a lot more opportunity in civvy street, a lot more variety and lot less artificial constraints; you are much more a master of your own destiny. There is a worthwhile and rewarding career for you, but you have to pursue it with vigour. Don't give up and you will find that you will enjoy a fascinating career that will be deeply satisfying and rewarding, and great fun!
Flug
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Thanks for the above advice!
I'm going to have a crack at PPL and ATPL, if i pass those within the times i'll keep going and if not i'll just have to chose a new career. Might even tell you how it goes in a few months!
I'm going to have a crack at PPL and ATPL, if i pass those within the times i'll keep going and if not i'll just have to chose a new career. Might even tell you how it goes in a few months!
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this has been a wonderful thread to read. thank you.
it is clear that commerical aviation isn't all it cracked out to be. I do have a question for those who had a previous life with a different career (doctors, lawyers, IT consultants etc), in hindsight would you do it again? I understand that its be talked about (i.e. would have gone to school etc)
But my question is more targetted to those with many years into their previous career and are well established. $150k+ annual income, i guess that's $80k-90k+ pounds. Is it worth it? is it worth putting your wife in the stress for our own dream having to relocate etc?
cheers
NSO
it is clear that commerical aviation isn't all it cracked out to be. I do have a question for those who had a previous life with a different career (doctors, lawyers, IT consultants etc), in hindsight would you do it again? I understand that its be talked about (i.e. would have gone to school etc)
But my question is more targetted to those with many years into their previous career and are well established. $150k+ annual income, i guess that's $80k-90k+ pounds. Is it worth it? is it worth putting your wife in the stress for our own dream having to relocate etc?
cheers
NSO
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When you qualify and if you get a decent job - Yes it's worth it
For me, I was happy to try as it's what I'd always wanted to do. 11 years in a previous career, good regular money, secure furture. But boring
Self funded everything at 30. Wife and parents all figured it was a very early mid life crisis that would lead to little. To their credit they all accepted my madness and helped through the tough times.
Frighteningly expensive, but lifes too short not to give it a go (as long as you're willing to accept the risks)
FW
For me, I was happy to try as it's what I'd always wanted to do. 11 years in a previous career, good regular money, secure furture. But boring
Self funded everything at 30. Wife and parents all figured it was a very early mid life crisis that would lead to little. To their credit they all accepted my madness and helped through the tough times.
Frighteningly expensive, but lifes too short not to give it a go (as long as you're willing to accept the risks)
FW
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NSO - Im giving up a financially rewarding career as an accountant to do this. As very well said above, if you can accept the risks involved then it will be fantastic. I mean, what better feeling can there be than conquering your life ambition!
If you get a decent job and your family are ok with it then it'll be worth it but on the other hand if you look back in 5 years without a job, in **** loads of debt and no real way back to your old career then obviously it won't have been worth it.
For me, Im risking enough at 22. Would I do it when Im married with Kids and a mortgage...probably not. But like everything else in flight training, how you go about it is a very personal thing and has to suit your circumstances.
In short, the decision has to be yours but good luck and I hope all goes well whatever you decide.
CS
CS
If you get a decent job and your family are ok with it then it'll be worth it but on the other hand if you look back in 5 years without a job, in **** loads of debt and no real way back to your old career then obviously it won't have been worth it.
For me, Im risking enough at 22. Would I do it when Im married with Kids and a mortgage...probably not. But like everything else in flight training, how you go about it is a very personal thing and has to suit your circumstances.
In short, the decision has to be yours but good luck and I hope all goes well whatever you decide.
CS
CS
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I'm 36, with wife, mortgage and 3 children and I've suppressed this dream for too long now and know if I don't take the opportunity to make aviation a career now, I'll have to live with the regret for the rest of my life.
Having partially satisfied the flying bug with cheaper options such as gliding and paragliding, I've realised that although they are fantastic forms of flying (and well worth considering if powered flight is prohibitively expensive), they are very weather dependant, time consuming and hard to fit in around family commitments. Despite my mounting debts due to training costs, flying as an occupation is the way forward for me, whether that takes me to an airline, instructor post or crop spraying in Kuala Lumpa.
If you have a dream of flying now, that dream will not leave you. Consider how you will feel if you don't pursue your dream.
Having partially satisfied the flying bug with cheaper options such as gliding and paragliding, I've realised that although they are fantastic forms of flying (and well worth considering if powered flight is prohibitively expensive), they are very weather dependant, time consuming and hard to fit in around family commitments. Despite my mounting debts due to training costs, flying as an occupation is the way forward for me, whether that takes me to an airline, instructor post or crop spraying in Kuala Lumpa.
If you have a dream of flying now, that dream will not leave you. Consider how you will feel if you don't pursue your dream.
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well i too had an "early mid life crisis" deciding that i needed to wake up and want to go to work. I gave it much thought investigation and consideration...fast forward 2 years and $100,000 and i now have a CPL, Seminole (twin) endorsement and just last week completed my ME Command Instrument Rating. dillema is; from what i have heard and learned during my training is i'm not sure i still want this as a career... fact is i feel that the training and testing is laborious and stressful and have reached a level where i can see that the testing, in the form of interviews check rides and renewals, will be a continuous stressor. of course i have invested too much, more than just money, to pack it all in. i think what i need to hear from someone is that there is a point when the tests become routine and the flying becomes enjoyable. or at least that someone else has gone through the same torture as I and has come through the other end with a smile on their face.
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Welcome to the reality that has been described by experienced pilots in previous posts. I have been on jets (B737 and A319)for 10 years now, the last four in the LHS. The sim rides only get harder as there is a greater expectation to perform to a higher level each time. Every time your life/house/income is riding on the outcome. You then have crewing dictating your life, missing out on all those once in a lifetime events that you only realise were important when it is too late. The thrill of seeing the sunrise through bleary eyelids at o'dark o'clock soon dissipates.
However, did I listen to those who warned me about the perils of the profession beforehand.....No!! Would I still go into the profession knowing what I do now....Absolutely!!! I would not want to do anything else. Every job becomes mundane and the reason why pilots complain is because the reality does not come close to the preconceptions that they had of the job.
Word of warning though, Would I be willing to put my parent's house at risk by doing a CTC type scheme using a secured loan when there are very few permanent jobs that would enable you to service the debt... NO NO NO!!!!!!
However, did I listen to those who warned me about the perils of the profession beforehand.....No!! Would I still go into the profession knowing what I do now....Absolutely!!! I would not want to do anything else. Every job becomes mundane and the reason why pilots complain is because the reality does not come close to the preconceptions that they had of the job.
Word of warning though, Would I be willing to put my parent's house at risk by doing a CTC type scheme using a secured loan when there are very few permanent jobs that would enable you to service the debt... NO NO NO!!!!!!
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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Nail on head:
And sadly, the past few years have got worse, mainly due to a crazed bonus culture that seems to have swept through management teams around the UK...and pilots are high cost...so I would also add to the above and say not so much the preconceptions of doing the actual day job of aviating (quite a few years in and I still get a kick out of it!) but a huge disappointment in the industry as a whole...
I think this will be the hardest thing for a Wannabe to get his/her head around if they are choosing a second career and you have experience of another industry.
...pilots complain is because the reality does not come close to the preconceptions that they had of the job.
I think this will be the hardest thing for a Wannabe to get his/her head around if they are choosing a second career and you have experience of another industry.
