Do you really Want to Do This...??
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Rob,
Personally, I think this thread is a little too subjective to be a sticky. If I were a mod, a sticky would be factual or a notice.
Better would be an idiots guide to the career as a sticky. Something that states in more clinical terms what typical terms and conditions are for the various roles (long, short, charter, taxi, etc). That has not, as far as I know, been succinctly and thoroughly covered.
Personally, I think this thread is a little too subjective to be a sticky. If I were a mod, a sticky would be factual or a notice.
Better would be an idiots guide to the career as a sticky. Something that states in more clinical terms what typical terms and conditions are for the various roles (long, short, charter, taxi, etc). That has not, as far as I know, been succinctly and thoroughly covered.
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Tend to agree with you HWG - the mods know how we feel about stickies. Could do with storing away the url for an appearance when everyone gets a bit to light headed though 
Essence is that folks know a little about the reality, adopt the practice of reading other parts of the site and then we've done our job.
Rob
Essence is that folks know a little about the reality, adopt the practice of reading other parts of the site and then we've done our job.
Rob
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I think if we were to make this a sticky we'd have to filter out a lot of the 'noise' which, paradoxically, is what keeps people coming back to the topic. Like the current 'A question for the Professionals' sticky thread, it would stagnate and effectively become invisible.
What I think I might do, if I get some time over the next week or two, is create a sticky post with links to the most repeated topics, including this one. If I could make it compulsory for all Wannabes to read all the linked threads, I would!
Scroggs
What I think I might do, if I get some time over the next week or two, is create a sticky post with links to the most repeated topics, including this one. If I could make it compulsory for all Wannabes to read all the linked threads, I would!
Scroggs
Stickies drive me up the wall - but a sticky containing useful thread links would be great. We could add to it over time like we did with the Wannabes Archive. Top idea.
Anyway, lets stop having a management meeting in public.
Cheers
WWW
Anyway, lets stop having a management meeting in public.
Cheers
WWW
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The industry
I left a £45000 a year job in IT last year aged 34 to train as a commercial pilot. It's all I ever wanted to do, my Father was BEA/BA Cabin Crew, my Mother worked for BOAC and both my wife and I worked for BA. I had a good career and I had some enjoyable times working but I was increasingly aware that I wasn't following my passion in life. I've spent 30 years looking up at aircraft wishing I was flying them and getting goose bumps from the threshold of 27L in my lunch hour as they roared over my head. I'm now 2/3 of the way through my ATPL course and am thoroughly enjoying my flying (and am fed up with groundschool!)
The decline in pilot lifestyles is unfortunately echoed across most other professions as other posters have pointed out and is a worrying trend. I barely know anyone who enjoys work anymore, most friends and colleagues hate it - and most of them are educated professionals. I'm grateful to the airline pilots who have posted their fascinating insights here and can only hope I am one of those who always loves flying.
For anyone contemplating following this path I can confirm that making the break from a secure 9-6 style existence has been hard. Coming home after 6 hrs in the classroom and having to study for another couple of hours is a chore and lets face it JAR manuals aren't interesting even if you love aeroplanes! The exams were difficult due to the volume of material and you really have to work to get good grades - it's certainly harder than my Degree (Business Studies). You can forget social life for a year! Financially I reckon I am down in excess of £100 000 in terms of course fees and lost earnings and there is a lot of stress associated with not earning any money and getting a job. In short this isn't something to be undertaken lightly. On the other hand I have loved all the flying and have had some amazing experiences up there already. I'm proud to have got this far thanks in no small measure to the support of my wife.
I would definately do it again. It's wonderful never to have to wonder 'what if?' There's so much more to life than money that those City types will never know because they'll still be in the office. With luck I will spend the next 20 years flying airliners, taking people where they want to go, meeting some great people downroute, seeing the world and flying heavy metal with the best office view in the world. Someday, perhaps twenty years from now I hope I will occasionally watch a beautiful sunrise from 40 000 feet and still think how lucky I am.
Maybe having done other things beforehand will help me to appreciate being a pilot more than if I'd gone straight into it. I guess if you've never done anything else it would be hard to understand how miserable the corporate grind can be.
My Father did about twenty different jobs in his life, but the only one he was ever able to stick for longer than about 2 years was airline crew (23 years!) He retired in 1987 and he still misses it. Perhaps that says it all really.
Clear Skies to all,
Desk-Pilot
The decline in pilot lifestyles is unfortunately echoed across most other professions as other posters have pointed out and is a worrying trend. I barely know anyone who enjoys work anymore, most friends and colleagues hate it - and most of them are educated professionals. I'm grateful to the airline pilots who have posted their fascinating insights here and can only hope I am one of those who always loves flying.
For anyone contemplating following this path I can confirm that making the break from a secure 9-6 style existence has been hard. Coming home after 6 hrs in the classroom and having to study for another couple of hours is a chore and lets face it JAR manuals aren't interesting even if you love aeroplanes! The exams were difficult due to the volume of material and you really have to work to get good grades - it's certainly harder than my Degree (Business Studies). You can forget social life for a year! Financially I reckon I am down in excess of £100 000 in terms of course fees and lost earnings and there is a lot of stress associated with not earning any money and getting a job. In short this isn't something to be undertaken lightly. On the other hand I have loved all the flying and have had some amazing experiences up there already. I'm proud to have got this far thanks in no small measure to the support of my wife.
I would definately do it again. It's wonderful never to have to wonder 'what if?' There's so much more to life than money that those City types will never know because they'll still be in the office. With luck I will spend the next 20 years flying airliners, taking people where they want to go, meeting some great people downroute, seeing the world and flying heavy metal with the best office view in the world. Someday, perhaps twenty years from now I hope I will occasionally watch a beautiful sunrise from 40 000 feet and still think how lucky I am.
Maybe having done other things beforehand will help me to appreciate being a pilot more than if I'd gone straight into it. I guess if you've never done anything else it would be hard to understand how miserable the corporate grind can be.
My Father did about twenty different jobs in his life, but the only one he was ever able to stick for longer than about 2 years was airline crew (23 years!) He retired in 1987 and he still misses it. Perhaps that says it all really.
Clear Skies to all,
Desk-Pilot
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Well that’s more Airlines down…so that will be more Pilots looking for a Job. And as this is very much an Industry that works on supply and demand….Some of these guys are going to be unemployed for some time.
Strangely enough it’s never the fault of the staff, but usually some bean counter or group of directors that drive these companies on the rocks….
The Lo-cost idea although bringing cheap fares (and lousy service) to people, is as much to blame for this instability…….Since all airlines are cutting costs (usually in the staff department first…although the directors always seem to get their million pound bonuses!!!!!!
.) eventually they all end up cutting each others throats. Don’t get me wrong…I’m sure this is prevalent in all business, today….Its just that, in aviation, a pilot, must stay current. The longer he is unemployed the harder It Is for him to get re- employed.
So all you guys who think the airlines are such a great idea……..There are only a small percentage of guys in the good jobs now……The rest bounce from job to job. There are better ways to enjoy your flying.
Strangely enough it’s never the fault of the staff, but usually some bean counter or group of directors that drive these companies on the rocks….
The Lo-cost idea although bringing cheap fares (and lousy service) to people, is as much to blame for this instability…….Since all airlines are cutting costs (usually in the staff department first…although the directors always seem to get their million pound bonuses!!!!!!
.) eventually they all end up cutting each others throats. Don’t get me wrong…I’m sure this is prevalent in all business, today….Its just that, in aviation, a pilot, must stay current. The longer he is unemployed the harder It Is for him to get re- employed.So all you guys who think the airlines are such a great idea……..There are only a small percentage of guys in the good jobs now……The rest bounce from job to job. There are better ways to enjoy your flying.
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There’s some interesting views along the lines of this thread in some of the other forums....Looks like more are getting fed up and are now saying something. We need single Union representation to level the pay and conditions throughout this industry...or it’s just going to continue to get worse....We all really need to lobby BALPA along these lines, irrespective of who you work for…(like it or not it has to be the strongest union )
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What wonderful encouragement you are
Deathcruzer, you have upset me twice now with this thread appearing, I am a 21 year old trainee just about to complete my final 14th exam and due to start CPL shortly after.
I find that you have some valid points about flying, however others on this thread ( and I don't think I am alone here) do not appreciate your cast iron view that all in aviation is crap, bad, not worth while in me, my parents, family, friends, investing their time, money and effort into.
I have no doubt that flying has changed since the days of smokey old Trident's and VC-10's, but it's not completetly gone to the dogs.
I have mates doing law and Medicine who are very interested by my flying pursuits, I wonder if their Consultant's and Law professors openly say on forums how bad things are and not to bother, do something else.
I appreciate the aviation world isn't perfect, but neither is modern day society, people in general have very little respect for anything these days, sad to say (yes most are of my generation.)
BUT it's not what others think, it's what I hold to be dear to me and have done for years that counts, - YOU should be promoting the profession of Airline Pilot, not slagging it off.
"If they knew how much fun it is, they wouldn't pay us a penny." Said a certain 737 Capt with nearly 35 years up there, I wonder if he shares your down beat centiment............
I find that you have some valid points about flying, however others on this thread ( and I don't think I am alone here) do not appreciate your cast iron view that all in aviation is crap, bad, not worth while in me, my parents, family, friends, investing their time, money and effort into.
I have no doubt that flying has changed since the days of smokey old Trident's and VC-10's, but it's not completetly gone to the dogs.
I have mates doing law and Medicine who are very interested by my flying pursuits, I wonder if their Consultant's and Law professors openly say on forums how bad things are and not to bother, do something else.
I appreciate the aviation world isn't perfect, but neither is modern day society, people in general have very little respect for anything these days, sad to say (yes most are of my generation.)
BUT it's not what others think, it's what I hold to be dear to me and have done for years that counts, - YOU should be promoting the profession of Airline Pilot, not slagging it off.
"If they knew how much fun it is, they wouldn't pay us a penny." Said a certain 737 Capt with nearly 35 years up there, I wonder if he shares your down beat centiment............
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Flying is great fun, I can't think of a better way to pass the time and still be clothed.. however, the industry sucks.
wingbar, if it all goes well and you get a job soon after leaving flight school and it's on a jet and the company stays solvent then you're laughing. Life will be great.
If your career doesn't follow the above, if reading about the industry upsets you, wait till you're in it.
I showed your post to Checkboard, he said "good on you, you want to be in this industry because you love aviation, not because you think it is an easy path to riches."
wingbar, if it all goes well and you get a job soon after leaving flight school and it's on a jet and the company stays solvent then you're laughing. Life will be great.
If your career doesn't follow the above, if reading about the industry upsets you, wait till you're in it.
I showed your post to Checkboard, he said "good on you, you want to be in this industry because you love aviation, not because you think it is an easy path to riches."
Last edited by redsnail; 10th Jul 2004 at 21:41.
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Wing bar I’m not trying to upset anyone…..Just open up the realities of what its like out there .Flying is the greatest thing a human can do ….but over the years the industry has become trash. I recently flew with a new F/O not got his ATPL unfrozen yet, today he regrets the day he started off. He doesn’t see it getting any better either…he was, as I was, massively enthusiastic about the whole industry,.... when he started…..But after 12 months of 5-6 day weeks, 4 sector days, nights followed by days by nights etc….Its lost its shine. As I say that’s after 12 months.
I will be sure to keep my kids away from this. Private flying is the way to go.
I will be sure to keep my kids away from this. Private flying is the way to go.
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Deathcruzer,
As you say over the years - do you mean since Sept 11th? During the pilot shortage days what was it like?
Do you suggest people should work in an office? No thanks - some people might like it but I dont and cant wait to start flying for a living whether it be 6 day weeks or not, I know the other careers I could be doing and no thanks - flying is my game!
Jinkster
As you say over the years - do you mean since Sept 11th? During the pilot shortage days what was it like?
Do you suggest people should work in an office? No thanks - some people might like it but I dont and cant wait to start flying for a living whether it be 6 day weeks or not, I know the other careers I could be doing and no thanks - flying is my game!
Jinkster
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Flying
Well,
abused in flying, long hours and the like.
I would give up my job which sounds exactly the same working in a factory for that anyday.
Nothing comes easy and if your gonna spend all that time effort and money, be prepared for it.
Deathcruzer i agree with you, when i took my IRT at Bournemouth, the examiner was chatting to me and asked what i would like to do, I said regional but if it never happens i will use the IR and put some fun back into my flying
Good luck everyone
abused in flying, long hours and the like.
I would give up my job which sounds exactly the same working in a factory for that anyday.
Nothing comes easy and if your gonna spend all that time effort and money, be prepared for it.
Deathcruzer i agree with you, when i took my IRT at Bournemouth, the examiner was chatting to me and asked what i would like to do, I said regional but if it never happens i will use the IR and put some fun back into my flying
Good luck everyone
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Thank you for the great stories and advises you have given. However now as we know how horrible flying for the airlines can be it would be great to hear similar stories from the other walks of aviation and flying. So if there are any rotorheads, corporate, bush, etc. pilot please step forward and share us your experiences.
Cheers!
Another wannabe who never wanted to fly for the airlines in the first place...
it would be great to hear similar stories from the other walks of aviation and flying. So if there are any rotorheads, corporate, bush, etc. pilot please step forward and share us your experiences.Cheers!
Another wannabe who never wanted to fly for the airlines in the first place...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I started life as a bush pilot working in the Kimberley in Australia. Then spent a couple of years peering out the window flying Coastwatch missions. Is that what you're interested in hearing about?
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Dear all
I have been an airline pilot for 14 years, worked for large carriers and small, a veried career. Yes an airline career today is not as it used to be, economically it cannot be, the hours can be long and tiring, the automation, regulations, sops, medicals, sim checks etc, can make the whole job dam right tedious at times. But take a couple of weeks off and what do I want to do ? get in the plane and fly again.
Having said all the above, please really really look at your finances, your training establishment ( airlines do take note as to where you did your initial training, quite seriously ), no matter what is going on in your personal life, just concentrate on your training ( good result count ), do the class one medical first ( common sense, if you don’t pass this, the above is irrelevant ), overall if you take the step into aviation prepare for a hard slog, but never give up, keep in mind as to what made you make this crazy ambition into reality.
Good luck to you all, and to those that make it enjoy
I have been an airline pilot for 14 years, worked for large carriers and small, a veried career. Yes an airline career today is not as it used to be, economically it cannot be, the hours can be long and tiring, the automation, regulations, sops, medicals, sim checks etc, can make the whole job dam right tedious at times. But take a couple of weeks off and what do I want to do ? get in the plane and fly again.
Having said all the above, please really really look at your finances, your training establishment ( airlines do take note as to where you did your initial training, quite seriously ), no matter what is going on in your personal life, just concentrate on your training ( good result count ), do the class one medical first ( common sense, if you don’t pass this, the above is irrelevant ), overall if you take the step into aviation prepare for a hard slog, but never give up, keep in mind as to what made you make this crazy ambition into reality.
Good luck to you all, and to those that make it enjoy
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Hey, i know this would happen , i'm currently working through my PPl, and i know there will be hell time. but just to remind you that in life you will always have bad times and remember son, perseverence( no quite sure about spelling, but whatever..) is the only key for success said my grand father
don't worry about relocation. i get to go to work in another town just to earn more money to pay my flying lessons. cos when i'm out ther in the sky i feel that where i belong. i'd pay sky and earth to stay there.
Think again where you were, before having your very introductory first lesson.
from now take care.
don't worry about relocation. i get to go to work in another town just to earn more money to pay my flying lessons. cos when i'm out ther in the sky i feel that where i belong. i'd pay sky and earth to stay there.
Think again where you were, before having your very introductory first lesson.
from now take care.
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Re: Do you really Want to Do This...??
hey danny and the boyz i know you get sick of the age q,s but how old was you when got into the hot seat? just a point i think i picked up from the Doc,s ramblings (wint3rmute)and in his defence,he just hates his own job and as i see it would rather jump out of the NHS and into the RHS
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Re: Do you really Want to Do This...??
I think Danny and Rob were 37 or thereabouts. I was 21 when I joined the RAF, but 42 when I joined the airlines. WWW was early 20s when he started with Go, I think - mine and WWW's potted histories are available in the 'Read this...' sticky thread at the top of the forum.
Scroggs
Scroggs
Last edited by scroggs; 9th Jan 2006 at 15:28.