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Originally Posted by BossEyed
(Post 9943860)
You guys do know that this was the same programme as originally transmitted in 2015, don't you?
That is, the moans at the beginning of the thread are still going to be valid and there's no need to go round the buoy again. CC |
Originally Posted by BossEyed
(Post 9943860)
You guys do know that this was the same programme as originally transmitted in 2015, don't you?
That is, the moans at the beginning of the thread are still going to be valid and there's no need to go round the buoy again. In relation to the flight that is the subject of this programme, and in light of the video evidence contained in it, it seems entirely reasonable that Ms Curtis-Taylor should be asked to explain the image contained in this post: http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...ml#post9942685 If those wanting a simple answer to this, and the other questions that have been asked, choose to keep sailing round “the buoy”, it is only in the hope that eventually the girl will own up! |
I see our intrepid adventurer is due to give the Andrew Humphrey Memorial Lecture at the Royal Aeronautical Society on 16 November. Expect it will be a sell out....
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Whichever way the cat jumps, this is still "The Best Show in Town !"
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I really am quite offended to be called a jackal
I watched the programme several years ago and was convinced at the end that this was a solo flight. It is good to learn that Ewald was not a pilot but merely a passenger dumped in the front due to lack of space elsewhere. I wonder what his role would have been in the supporting aircraft if there had not been such a basic miscalculation of payload in the beginning...... |
"...an early decision was taken on the Africa trip for her to carry a passenger because there was insufficient payload capacity in the supporting aircraft to carry everyone and the filming equipment."
This is not correct. There was plenty of capacity in the C208 for everyone and everything. Additionally, the "early decision" was made by Tracey, without consultation with anyone else (apart from Ewald). Myself, the film crew, director - we were all taken completely by surprise. Continuing the correction theme. Whilst I very definitely had a falling out with Tracey (!), it was not a commercial falling out as I never had any commercial relationship with her. The only commercial relationship we had was with the production company. We did have a problem after the journey when they refused to reimburse us for for the money we had spent getting the Libyan visas "because we never went to Libya and so didn't use them". Despite explaining at length that this is not how it works (!), we were forced to take legal action. They then paid up (plus costs). |
Oh Dear! I seem to think that this is the second time that Mr Holloway has tried to end this matter and has possibly made it worse.
What is the gain, or rather what is in it for you personally? My only issue with the journalists covering Tracey‘s flight is that they assumed she was solo when she was not; |
Oh Dear....
Poor old Terry is at it again. Frankly , I can't be bothered to cut and paste all the howlers out of this one . There are just so many ! But as soon as you see someone discrediting so many of his adversaries as he's done ,then it's a sure sign that yet more straws are being clutched at. Jay-Sata. Sam Rutherford. PPRuNe Moderators. The LAA. All the journalists covering TC-T's solo epic. Were we ALL wrong ? Then to describe the contributors on here who simply want a small number of perfectly reasonable questions answered as "jackals". I am as tired of this thread as Ms Curtis-Taylor is. Except I'm not the one who could shut it all down by simply being straight with people . |
That would have been a logical conclusion from the early days of the Africa flight when she could have explained why Ewald climbed on board what was promoted as a solo flight Chris.
Terry has asked me to remove the post with his quote to which he initially agreed was OK. We exchange friendly emails and I respect his opinions so I have removed it. Hence some of the above posts might now seem out of context. |
there's no need to go round the buoy again. My recent complaint to the BBC was that they have shown this old movie again, despite what we all now know about TC-T. |
TCT turned her logbook into a fiction novel, conned some hedge funders, told porkies to the press and public and bigged herself up to the WRI and other groups.
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Do you think Tracey Curtis Taylor could climb in to a Piper single engined Commanche and fly around the world solo with no GPS in 189 hours in 34 days?
Sheila Scott did in 1966. http://www.redditchadvertiser.co.uk/...und_the_world/ |
Jay, like Ms Scott there are many aviators that have done serious long distance solo flights that make TC-T's efforts look petty.
I was fortunate to know Freda Thompson, fly with her and laugh at her stories of her 1934 UK-Australia solo flight. Those pioneers like Freda would be appalled at the disrepute that TC-T has brought upon our profession. A short bio of Freda Mary Thompson Biography - Freda Mary Thompson - Australian Dictionary of Biography CC |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9944803)
I doubt any modern pilot could do that
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It's reached the point where with the passage of time, the lies and deceit don't really concern me anymore. They have been proved. There is one poster connected to TC-T who has continually encouraged us all to move on, nothing to see here etc. I suggest his efforts would be better applied if the poster advised TC-T to stop giving speeches and making appearances, remove her Facebook page and website and then like her, this thread would just go away.
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The response from the BBC
Thank you for contacting us regarding BBC Four’s ‘The Lady Who Flew Africa: the Aviatrix’ broadcast on 30 October. I understand you believe it was misleading for Tracey Curtis-Taylor to not fly solo in the aircraft. The aim of this programme was to show Tracey Curtis-Taylor recreating Lady Heath’s flight from Cape Town to London in a vintage biplane. Let us assure you that there was never any intention for any viewer to believe that they were misled. It was important however, to get Tracey’s reaction while she was in the biplane, and to see the landscape that was below her. We do value your feedback about the programme. All complaints are sent to senior management and in this case ‘The Lady Who Flew Africa: the Aviatrix’ programme every morning, and I’ve included your points in our overnight report of audience reaction. These reports are among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC and ensures that your concerns have been seen by the right people quickly. This helps inform their decisions about current and future programmes. Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us. Kind regards Neil Salt BBC Complaints Team BBC - Complaints - Home NB This is sent from an outgoing account only which is not monitored. You cannot reply to this email address but if necessary please contact us via our webform quoting any case number we provided. That's what the corporation think is a suitable response to my complaint. They have ignored the deceit and missed the point that to recreate a solo flight, you would need to fly to solo. |
Originally Posted by airpolice
(Post 9949698)
That's what the corporation think is a suitable response to my complaint. They have ignored the deceit and missed the point that to recreate a solo flight, you would need to fly to solo.
In this case : " Well they would, wouldn't they? " |
They ain't got time to worry about what TCT did or didn't do, they're way to busy down at the post office mailing all their employees payroll checks to Mauritius.
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Originally Posted by airpolice
(Post 9949698)
That's what the corporation think is a suitable response to my complaint. They have ignored the deceit and missed the point that to recreate a solo flight, you would need to fly to solo.
Contact Feedback on R4. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006slnx/contact The production team are impartial and are always looking for slightly unusual topics to brighten up the usual raft of complaints.(News,soaps etc) What they are looking for is considered comment regarding the complaint that a programme may be misleading. |
Don’t blame the Beeb
Actually, I don’t think the programme itself was misleading, at least not deliberately so (with the caveat that I only watched the second half).
As the BBC response quoted in the earlier post said: as far as the producers were concerned all they claimed to be doing was recreating Mary Heath’s journey and I can well believe that they would not see the importance of the distinction between solo or non-solo. I don’t believe that they ever actually claimed that the flight was solo; and I don’t think that THEY have tried actively to deceive. All of the hard, and as yet unanswered, evidence against Ms Curtis-Taylor has actually come from her directly and, whilst apparently very persuasive none of the following...... . The Hearne Bay video . The on stage presentation in front of the big picture . Pictures of her wearing RAF wings. . The withdrawal of the LAA award ...... actually featured in the programme and all happened after the journey and the filming had finished. Presumably the BBC would justify that by saying that these controversies arose some time after the flight was finished, and had no bearing on what they saw as their objective which was to follow the route of Mary Heath’s flight within the constraints of ca 48 minutes of TV. Seen through the eyes of non-pilot viewers, and based on the content of the film alone, they can reasonably claim that they did actually achieve that. Of course when you look beyond that at the things that weren’t in the film, it’s another story. Perhaps they would like to make a sequel? :O |
Jonzarno (#3048),
...Actually, I don’t think the programme itself was misleading, at least not deliberately so... ...It was a masterpiece of clever editing, giving the completely wrong public impression (that she had been flying alone), without ever using the word "solo"... Danny42C. |
I don’t disagree, Danny; but I also don’t think this was a conspiracy to mislead on the part of the producers. It seeems to me that all the apparent spin doctoring actually happened after the film was in the can.
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I'd like to just say that the production company did the best they could with the cards they were dealt. Fact.
I am 90% confident of the rest of this post, but not 100% and so it should not be taken as gospel. They thought they would be filming a solo aviatrix journey, and so judged whether to get involved and the 'sale value' of a final film based on that (attractive solo female pilot story). Once it became clear that solo was no longer happening (and that they had no say in the matter), they had to make a choice: 1. Tell the real story (not so attractive to networks, low/zero resale value). 2. Fudge to keep it as attractive as possible (but without blatant misrepresentation) - in an effort to keep the chances of selling it alive. Unfortunately, option two involves a lot of tight-rope walking - and inevitably affected the final production. |
Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford
(Post 9951887)
1. Tell the real story (not so attractive to networks, low/zero resale value).
Hey Sam . You probably know this better than anyone else on here mate. But "the real story" [ birdinabiplane flies solo around globe] found to be completely untrue but she tried to fudge the truth , could actually have quite a high resale value couldn't it ? Can't wait for the sequel ! |
Originally Posted by Chris Martyr
(Post 9951917)
Hey Sam . You probably know this better than anyone else on here mate.
But "the real story" [ birdinabiplane flies solo around globe] found to be completely untrue but she tried to fudge the truth , could actually have quite a high resale value couldn't it ? Can't wait for the sequel ! Given what was promised and what actually happened then the cutting-room floor stuff might run to a 1hr 20min feature all by itself (sorry, I meant alone/on its own/in isolation...) |
Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford
(Post 9951887)
I'd like to just say that the production company did the best they could with the cards they were dealt. Fact.
I am 90% confident of the rest of this post, but not 100% and so it should not be taken as gospel. They thought they would be filming a solo aviatrix journey, and so judged whether to get involved and the 'sale value' of a final film based on that (attractive solo female pilot story). Once it became clear that solo was no longer happening (and that they had no say in the matter), they had to make a choice: 1. Tell the real story (not so attractive to networks, low/zero resale value). 2. Fudge to keep it as attractive as possible (but without blatant misrepresentation) - in an effort to keep the chances of selling it alive. Unfortunately, option two involves a lot of tight-rope walking - and inevitably affected the final production. Walk away. |
Option 3 would have been a difficult one - and probably not the right one.
On day two of the journey, probably 80% of the costs were no longer recoverable, and yet the chance remained of at least making something - just not what was planned. I wouldn't have given up, neither did they! |
I can't see that this Lady has been mentioned before on this thread.
Puts Ms TCT's exploits into perspective... Mrs Victor Bruce Having set records on land and water, Bruce looked to the skies. As early as 1928 she joined the Mayfair Flying Club[10] and by January 1930 was the owner of a Gipsy Moth.[11] She did not take her first flying lesson until 25 May 1930[4] the day after Amy Johnson completed her record-setting flight to Australia. Bruce learned to fly at the Brooklands School of Flying; her instructors were G. E. Lowdell and Capt. H. Duncan Davis.[12] Bruce soloed on 22 June 1930[4] and received her A license #2855 on 26 July. She purchased a Blackburn Bluebird IV with a de Havilland Gipsy II engine from Auto-Auctions Ltd. in Burlington Gardens, London.[13] It was sent to the Blackburn factory in Brough, East Yorkshire, for modifications in preparation for her flight. It was designated G-ABDS. On 25 September 1930, she named the aircraft "Bluebird" and took off on a round the world solo flight from Heston Aerodrome. She flew east with stops in Germany, Austria, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Syria and Iraq. An oil leak caused a forced landing on the shore of the Persian Gulf, where she was sheltered for two days by Baluchi tribesmen before a British rescue party reached her.[4] Repairs delayed her onward flight for days, but she flew on to India, Burma, Siam (Thailand), and French Indo-China (Vietnam). Torrential monsoon rains forced a landing in a jungle clearing beside the Mekong River; she contracted malaria and her flight was further delayed. She flew on to Hanoi, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Seoul, making the first flight across the Yellow Sea. On 24 November 1930, having covered 10,330 miles (16,620 km) in 25 flying days, she reached Tokyo. She crossed the Pacific aboard the Empress of Japan to Vancouver. Her flight across North America was not without incident: a crash landing in Medford, Oregon, caused another week's delay. She reached her announced destination of her mother's birthplace, New Albany, Indiana, by way of San Francisco, San Diego, St. Louis and Chicago. A one-week delay followed another crash in Baltimore, and she finally reached New York City in early February 1931. She sailed on the Île de France to Le Havre, and on 19 February 1931 flew to Lympne Airport, having flown about 19,000 miles (31,000 km). On 20 February 1931, she was given an aerial escort by Amy Johnson, Winifred Spooner and others to Croydon Airport, where a reception of press and celebrities awaited her.[4]:102–149[14][15][16] She was the first person to fly from England to Japan, the first to fly across the Yellow Sea, and the first woman to fly around the world alone (crossing the oceans by ship).[17] The book... |
Was in Helsinki a few days ago and surprised to see a Norwegian Airlines 737 land with Amy's portraiture on the fin, and they also have it on a 787. A lovely tribute the airline gives to the Lady.
https://www.businesstraveller.com/bu...tail-fin-hero/ Given TCT's stature and daring do surely the airline must be negotiating with her team to paint her likeness on at least 2+ of their aircraft. |
BTW, & No, nothing to do with my understanding of Sam R's last.
Namely that TCT had talked herself up so much the project was financed & put into action: at which stage regrettably she was found virtually incapable piloting the a/c. Hence the supply of a permanent, if low key, Pilot 'companion' was forced on the team, which subterfuge continues to be actively exploited by her without correction. FWIW, The esteemed Ms. Bruce's Instructor way back in 1930 was George Lowdell - who took me for my GFT at Shoreham 41 years later. mike hallam. |
Adventure
I feel everyone’s missing the point here completely, the flight was made to honour lady heath & her spirit of flying asventure, it was a terrific achievement by Tracey whether solo or otherwise. If she didn’t fly solo the whole way so what, she still flew. Let up folks & congratulate Tracey on a true piece of aviation adventure.
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Originally Posted by old-timer
(Post 9956099)
I feel everyone’s missing the point here completely, the flight was made to honour lady heath & her spirit of flying asventure, it was a terrific achievement by Tracey whether solo or otherwise. If she didn’t fly solo the whole way so what, she still flew. Let up folks & congratulate Tracey on a true piece of aviation adventure.
If only she would come clean about this: I think many of her critics would accept that, and might even come to respect her for what she did do. |
Honouring....celebrating..commemorating you can call it what you like but a Stearman is not a De Haviland.
Lady Mary Heath and Amy Johnson flew these routes alone in a British built aircraft. Would it have been so difficult to have found a female pilot such as Amanda Harrison and asked her to try and fly these routes on basic maps and a compass? In a Tiger Moth. To survive in similar conditions en route under canvas instead of five star hotels? It appears many senior old aviation figures (including Barry Tempest ) miss the point that the Artemis/Victory flights were dual with both Tracey and flight instructor Ewald up front. The problem I have is understanding why Tracey got the publicity and awards and Ewald has been airbrushed out of the whole saga. The Goodwood and Sydney arrivals were stage managed and choreographed. Surely Ewald deserves an award for his great engineering? Something else puzzles me. Despite all these adventures we never see TCT flying her Stearman solo across the UK. |
Originally Posted by old-timer
(Post 9956099)
I feel everyone’s missing the point here completely, the flight was made to honour lady heath & her spirit of flying asventure, it was a terrific achievement by Tracey whether solo or otherwise. If she didn’t fly solo the whole way so what, she still flew. Let up folks & congratulate Tracey on a true piece of aviation adventure.
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Originally Posted by old-timer
(Post 9956099)
If she didn’t fly solo the whole way so what,
Precisely ! Old-timer , this is the full reason why this thread has gone on so bloody long. She didn't fly these sectors solo , but she tried to bluff the world into thinking that she did ! If she would only come clean , then all of this would die a death. But the way it stands right now , the only aviation achievement that she's going to make is by being the first PPRuNe thread to reach a million ! It would be fantastic to be the subject on here for a million hits . But not for that reason....:ugh: |
I'm not sure why this thread suddenly got a new lease of life, but it has got me thinking about it again (and afresh, as I'd forgotten about it for a while).
We (as I think many know) are generally trying to do difficult things with planes and helicopters. We are broadly successful but our flights/rallies/safaris (call them what you will): 1. Occasionally go very close to plan. 2. Often go vaguely to plan. 3. Sometimes go nothing like the plan but something gets done. 4. Occasionally fail completely. Whilst saddened and frustrated by number 4 (the others I consider a success) in the short term, they do at least confirm that what we were trying to do was extremely difficult. That, to roll out an old saying: "if you've not failed, you're not aiming high enough". That's the preamble. Now, what is very interesting is the reaction of others involved, broadly: 70% - I get it, it's a great shame but we at least tried. 30% - This is completely unacceptable, you're clearly incompetent etc. I'm used to both (though also frustrated by the 30%), but it demonstrates where I'm getting to. Using our motto as a perfect example: Everyone wants the glory, but not all want the grit needed to get there. Tracey wanted the glory of solo, but not the grit of solo. And I guess that's the rub. |
Well Sam I was impressed by her talk at the Cambridge Aero Club a few weeks ago and I am going to the RAeS tomorrow, Thursday 16th November to listen to three female pilots including Tracey speak on 'Women in Aviation' organised by the Air League.
Her talk at Cambridge was by an woman with a real passion for aviation and especially vintage biplanes. She made no mention whatsoever of being solo on her flights and she has certainly been an inspirational speaker to huge numbers of young people during her trips emphasising the benefits of studying the STEM subjects at school. We certainly need that sort of promotion across the world if we are to have sufficient scientists, technologists, engineers and mathematicians to ensure the well being of the UK in the future, I am sure you would agree with that sentiment. I wish you well with the new venture and wish I could have successfully entered the rally. It will be a mind blowing experience for all involved. Barry Tempest FRAeS Armageddon Associates :ok::ok::ok::ok: |
As I've said before, making out that "women in aviation" are something so special that they can give a flashy presentation on the subject then they haven't been paying attention and/or are only self promoting.
Women have been getting on with it in aviation for the last 80 years or so without their patronage. To make out that being a woman makes you special in this or any other industry is belittling the achievements of those of us who don't get want to get paid to brag about it and is pure sexism. I've said this before too, if they wanted to encourage people to get into aviation they should be setting up scholarships because it is MONEY that is the barrier, not gender. Setting up scholarships that are just for women is probably illegal these days and quite rightly. |
If people wish to take notice of Tracey Curtis-Taylor, then that’s their choice – she is, without doubt, an excellent speaker – especially on the subjects of herself and what she did on her extravagant, aviation-based holidays. However, I hope that history does not record her exploits as any more than that.
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G Kest
she has certainly been an inspirational speaker to huge numbers of young people during her trips emphasising the benefits of studying the STEM subjects at school. Please provide a shred of evidence for this claim which, to me at least, seems to have been lifted from the lady's own propaganda machine |
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