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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

Cazalet33 20th Sep 2018 13:13


That's not she was/is selling.
Here's what she's selling:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6873df9114.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7ba7c8fd13.jpg


She's slick.

newsjunkie 20th Sep 2018 13:24

And that is how it works: "solo" becomes "sole", lies become "slips of the tongue" (wondering if I can use that to describe the many porkies I've told myself down the years). And the Austrian airline (co) pilot becomes a random crew member, no different from any of the other lucky "guests" she may have offered a ride to. It would be interesting to know the breakdown of those flight companions. How many A-B trips were undertaken without Mr Gritsch? That we will probably never know.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 20th Sep 2018 13:32


Originally Posted by newsjunkie (Post 10253772)
.... It would be interesting to know the breakdown of those flight companions. How many A-B trips were undertaken without Mr Gritsch? That we will probably never know.

A very good question and one that I too would like to see the answer to..

It will be in their log books. but looking at the flying hours claimed after the Winslow "incident" Ewald had amassed quite a substantial number in the Stearman over the previous 90 days which suggests he was in there on quite a few more occasions than TCT hints at.

Also on the theme of not wishing to deceive. Just how long was it before TCT corrected the SOLO statement on this award, and not forgetting the offensive use of a military brevet to add to her "credibility" in the eyes of the uninformed..
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....569cce88ac.jpg

Sam Rutherford 20th Sep 2018 14:06

Africa. 44 flights. Ewald on board for 40.

newsjunkie 20th Sep 2018 14:52

Thank you for that Sam. Do we know which production company is responsible for the latest TCT film? They would presumably know all about who flew where on the Australia trip.

Sam Rutherford 20th Sep 2018 15:11

David Freeman, but I doubt you'll get an answer.

My confident guess is that Ewald was in the front for very nearly 100% of the enroute flights. But this is a guess!

Hadley Rille 20th Sep 2018 15:19

Showing log books and the aircraft insurance documents would help resolve any misunderstanding.

Marchettiman 20th Sep 2018 15:23

I am a member of the LAA which I regard as a superb organisation that does so much for light aircraft owners and pilots regardless of their race, sex or other characteristics. Although I am not generally in favour of U-turns I would have been open to persuasion by reasoned argument at the LAA AGM on TCT's rescinded award until I read the article in today's Times. In that article she is quoted as describing the LAA as "the old men's club of British light aviation" and then clearly goes on to describe it as a misogynistic organisation. Perhaps these comments were further "slips of the tongue" or misinterpretations by the journalist who interviewed her, but if not I do hope the proposer of the motion reported to be put before the LAA AGM will now withdraw it.

Katamarino 20th Sep 2018 18:47

What a very disappointing article. As many have pointed out, a male trying to get coverage and sponsorship for such trips would have had a much harder time of it. In the talk she gave a couple of months back, which I attended, Tracey specifically spoke about how the aviation industry were falling over themselves to do everything they can to get women into the industry. Being a female in aviation is an advantage these days, not a handicap, at least in the developed world.

It seems the story changes to suit the agenda of the day. Of course, the media rarely report accurately on what anyone says and could have ignored any more balanced statements that were made. I don't trust them a bit.

sharpend 20th Sep 2018 18:51


Originally Posted by Marchettiman (Post 10253871)
Perhaps these comments were further "slips of the tongue" or misinterpretations by the journalist who interviewed her, but if not I do hope the proposer of the motion reported to be put before the LAA AGM will now withdraw it.

I had the misfortune to dine with TCT once, round a table of eminent pilots. All she talked about was herself. I took an instant dislike to her. That was before all this rubbish.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 20th Sep 2018 19:19

Sorry but I have to laugh out loud at this.
Earlier today the Times Headline stated:

Tracey Curtis-Taylor: Who brought down the bird in a biplane?

The pilot Tracey Curtis-Taylor was accused of cheating on her solo vintage aircraft flights. She says she’s a victim of prejudice from male pilots

Just like her Wiki page, this has been edited to :

Tracey Curtis-Taylor: Who brought down the bird in a biplane?

The pilot Tracey Curtis-Taylor was accused of cheating on her vintage aircraft flights. She says she’s a victim of prejudice from male pilots



Note how SOLO has disappeared.

Right Hand Thread 20th Sep 2018 19:36


Originally Posted by sharpend (Post 10254018)
I had the misfortune to dine with TCT once, round a table of eminent pilots. All she talked about was herself. I took an instant dislike to her. That was before all this rubbish.


I attended a convention where she was the after dinner speaker. One attendee actually climbed out the window part way through. :D The audience became more uncomfortable with the telling of each tale of busting airspace, illegal low flying, ridiculing the local ATC............

The applause was best described as muted. It seems that those in the know can see through these stories, unlike the Times readership.

CharlieBrem 20th Sep 2018 19:36

Yup. The "solo" was an error in sub-editing, which has been corrected.

Jonzarno 20th Sep 2018 19:56

Perhaps she does deserve a “LAA” award........?

........ Lying Aviatrix Award!

Could it be that I reach this conclusion because she still won’t answer the Three Questions? Guilty as charged!

Cows getting bigger 20th Sep 2018 20:03

I think I commented a couple of years back about the “Bird” bit of the tag line. Curtis-Taylor was playing the gender card from the outset.

Chris Martyr 20th Sep 2018 20:35

@ CharlieBrem; Nice to have your input on here mate. One thing that I do find slightly embarrassing and a tad annoying though , is the way Tracey wants to palm us all off as sad, old internet trolls who resent a female intruding on 'our' male territory .
Nothing could be further from the truth ! Many of the contributors to this debate are professional people , either from the aviation industry or military people who have served the country . The airline in which I work ,openly encourages lady pilots and there are indeed many thousands of lady airline pilots these days , making an equally professional input as their male counterparts . All Tracey Curtis-Taylor does is insult these people by hiding behind this faux-1930s façade implying that they should follow her brilliant example by casting aside these perceived , virtual restrictions and all go and be pilots . Like her .
How ironic can it be that she blames the male gender for every tiny little misdemeanour that she encounters ? Especially with consideration to the fact that her expertise in manipulating daft old duffers in high places is practically legend !
She purports to emulate the female aviation pioneers of the 30's . OK,,,she's female and likes aviation . But there the likeness stops .

If she could drop this ridiculous gender issue , and if she REALLY wants recognition from the LAA's hard core of grass-roots aviators , then she should take her sponsors millions and try to re-create the global aviation feats of the amazing, fellow LAA'er ,Colin Hales . But she wouldn't . Because she couldn't ! And Colin's a bloke !!!!

And she's harping on about females in aviation being disadvantaged . Funny old world innit .

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 20th Sep 2018 20:52


Originally Posted by CharlieBrem (Post 10254057)
Yup. The "solo" was an error in sub-editing, which has been corrected.

Thank you CharlieBrem. Just goes to show how quickly a misleading headline can be corrected.
As Chris Martyr says...good to have you on here.

Above The Clouds 20th Sep 2018 21:13


Originally Posted by Chris Martyr (Post 10254109)
@ CharlieBrem; Nice to have your input on here mate. One thing that I do find slightly embarrassing and a tad annoying though , is the way Tracey wants to palm us all off as sad, old internet trolls who resent a female intruding on 'our' male territory .
Nothing could be further from the truth ! Many of the contributors to this debate are professional people , either from the aviation industry or military people who have served the country . The airline in which I work ,openly encourages lady pilots and there are indeed many thousands of lady airline pilots these days , making an equally professional input as their male counterparts . All Tracey Curtis-Taylor does is insult these people by hiding behind this faux-1930s façade implying that they should follow her brilliant example by casting aside these perceived , virtual restrictions and all go and be pilots . Like her .
How ironic can it be that she blames the male gender for every tiny little misdemeanour that she encounters ? Especially with consideration to the fact that her expertise in manipulating daft old duffers in high places is practically legend !
She purports to emulate the female aviation pioneers of the 30's . OK,,,she's female and likes aviation . But there the likeness stops .

If she could drop this ridiculous gender issue , and if she REALLY wants recognition from the LAA's hard core of grass-roots aviators , then she should take her sponsors millions and try to re-create the global aviation feats of the amazing, fellow LAA'er ,Colin Hales . But she wouldn't . Because she couldn't ! And Colin's a bloke !!!!

And she's harping on about females in aviation being disadvantaged . Funny old world innit .


@Chris M - I do wish they had a like button on here the same as the other forum :D

strake 20th Sep 2018 21:35

I have followed this story for quite a while and am stunned that The Times, which I have always considered to be a purveyor of truth, can print such a supportive article when quotes straight from Tracey Curtis-Taylor are completely at odds with what she tries to portray. This is nothing to do with the 'old boy network' (whatever that is) or male jealousy or any other sexist excuse. It is simply to do with the claim of a pilot that she did something she didn't!
I can only assume that the author was not aware of the evidence when he wrote the article. Were I that journalist, I would be on the phone tomorrow asking for some answers about two so-called 'slips of the tongue', a presentation slide and a presented certificate, all featuring the lady in question and all purporting to a solo flight - not to mention numerous press releases mentioning solo flight over an extended period of time, none of which were rebutted.
In a court of law, her premise would be laughed out.
With reference to her claims of sexism, the next thing we'll hear is that her self-titled name Bird-in-a-Biplane was chosen not in the colloquial sense but as an interpretation of a swooping, soaring Jonathan Livingstone Seagull persona.
This, from her own website in 2014 but deleted when questions started to be asked. Paragraph 4 refers:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150204...om/operations/

clareprop 20th Sep 2018 22:16

Mr Bremner, as others have said, it is indeed good of you to join in the discussion. I think many here would accept that you may not have been aware of the full background of the grievance pilots have with this story. Your views on the following would go a long way to clarifying this:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6873df9114.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....569cce88ac.jpg

Right Hand Thread 20th Sep 2018 22:22

It seems safe to assume that TCT and her 'side' thought two years would be long enough for this to fade from people's memory and allow them to slide this through the LAA AGM on 21st October. I would suggest that the reactions here, other forums and on the Times' own website should be enough to remind them just how seriously aviators take claims of this nature and that if they persist down this route they can expect fierce resistance.

I am sure that most of those at LAA HQ will not want this on their plate and just want to get on with running an organisation that is central to private flying in the UK.. I hope they can persuade those under the TCT spell to see sense before this causes trouble between the membership and the elected committee members.

These days in aviation we forgive honest mistakes in a 'Just Culture'.. What will not be forgiven are false claims, mockery of safety procedures and the cheapening of the military by wearing their hard-earned insignia like so much jewellery. It does not surprise me that non-aviation people do not understand the strength of feeling among us but the LAA should know better.

ChampChump 20th Sep 2018 23:26


Originally Posted by Chris Martyr (Post 10254109)
@ CharlieBrem; Nice to have your input on here mate. One thing that I do find slightly embarrassing and a tad annoying though , is the way Tracey wants to palm us all off as sad, old internet trolls who resent a female intruding on 'our' male territory .
Nothing could be further from the truth ! Many of the contributors to this debate are professional people , either from the aviation industry or military people who have served the country . The airline in which I work ,openly encourages lady pilots and there are indeed many thousands of lady airline pilots these days , making an equally professional input as their male counterparts . All Tracey Curtis-Taylor does is insult these people by hiding behind this faux-1930s façade implying that they should follow her brilliant example by casting aside these perceived , virtual restrictions and all go and be pilots . Like her .
How ironic can it be that she blames the male gender for every tiny little misdemeanour that she encounters ? Especially with consideration to the fact that her expertise in manipulating daft old duffers in high places is practically legend !
She purports to emulate the female aviation pioneers of the 30's . OK,,,she's female and likes aviation . But there the likeness stops .

If she could drop this ridiculous gender issue , and if she REALLY wants recognition from the LAA's hard core of grass-roots aviators , then she should take her sponsors millions and try to re-create the global aviation feats of the amazing, fellow LAA'er ,Colin Hales . But she wouldn't . Because she couldn't ! And Colin's a bloke !!!!

And she's harping on about females in aviation being disadvantaged . Funny old world innit .


Plus one.

I have not found the LAA to be "an old-boy military network" and although women are certainly in the minority, it's an equal opportunity world for the recreational pilot as much as the professional.

CC. Person in a monoplane.

Pilot DAR 21st Sep 2018 06:43

For those who may be reading, and perhaps less familiar with the rites of passage for a pilot, solo is a big rite of passage. Certainly the first solo, but even solo flights after that. It is a matter of great pride for a pilot to fly solo, particularly on a grand adventure. Stating that a flight was flown solo is a claim of extra importance (or probably pilots would not bother making the distinction). The fact that a pilot would state that their flight was solo is an obvious indicator of their pride in that flight as the only person aboard, who accomplished all of the required tasks themselves. Even carrying a non pilot, or a pilot who is not participating in that capacity, means that the flight was not a solo flight. Certainly a pilot can claim pride in a flight of grand adventure, and from my experience flying a Stearman, an extra long distance flight in one is an accomplishment of pride, whether solo or not. But those of us who fly solo, and describe our flight that way, would like to be thought of as the sole occupant of the aircraft for that flight - that description is fair, and unambiguous. In Canadian flight training, this has been an issue, where to earn a seaplane rating, it is required that the candidate fly five solo landings and takeoffs. The problem has been when the insurer of the training aircraft is reluctant to allow low experience solo flight in their aircraft. Instructors have been carried as non participant pilots, but doing so contravenes the intent of "solo", and has invoked ridicule - the candidate must be alone in the plane, and the instructor watching from shore. I've sat on the dock or the beach a number of times watching my student fly their five circuits - alone in the plane. Hopefully every pilot will allow those who fly a flight solo to have their pride in that accomplishment, be it a circuit, or transcontinental, by not diluting the intended meaning of "solo".

flyingfemme 21st Sep 2018 07:38

I am sure that I have seen cases (maybe in the US?) where a more experienced, better qualified pilot in the passenger seat has been deemed to have some responsibility in cases of incident/accident even thought the lesser qualified pilot was “sole manipulator of the controls”...............surely that has some relevance?

Romeo Tango 21st Sep 2018 09:59

I also would like to add something about the solo thing.
Having another (perhaps more experienced) pilot in the aircraft, even if he/she is just there for the ride makes a big difference. Being able to ask "do you think we should ....." or even listening for silent acquiescence makes things much easier. Flying involves many judgements, some life or death, having to make those judgements yourself and by yourself is what solo means.

pulse1 21st Sep 2018 10:32

Well said Romeo Tango. I may be wrong but that may be the first time that important point has been made during this whole saga.

Marchettiman 21st Sep 2018 11:23

The enormous distinction between flying solo i.e. as the sole occupant of any type of aircraft and dual (i.e. with a fellow pilot) is something non-aviators would be unlikely to understand. As well as many solo trips in single piston engine aircraft around Europe and Africa I have flown the Atlantic three times in simple, slow, single pistons aircraft without autopilot and on two of those occasions without the magic of GPS. Two of those transatlantic trips were genuinely solo, the other with a fairly inexperienced private pilot. The difference it makes having 1) another pair of hands 2) someone to monitor your decision making 3) a helping hand to solve problems both in the air and on the ground and 4) just another person with you in the aeroplane is extraordinary; it's a bit like the difference between living life with a huge amount of cash in the bank instead of an overdraft having to scrape by using only your wits and luck to keep food on the table.
And what can be better to improve your illusion of being a brave and daring aviator than to have a vastly experienced (on type and in general) commercial pilot and instructor in the aeroplane with you, especially one that is very taciturn and would never "spill the beans"?

.

foxmoth 21st Sep 2018 13:30

What I find annoying now is that she is trying to pull the male bias card, I have found that most men in aviation are very supportive of women pilots in general and would have been condeming this just as much had it been a man making these claims as a woman, I would say she has done herself no favours by stirring this up again.

ACW599 21st Sep 2018 14:06


Originally Posted by Marchettiman (Post 1025387)
In that article she is quoted as describing the LAA as "the old men's club of British light aviation" and then clearly goes on to describe it as a misogynistic organisation

I'm not an LAA member but I've come into contact with many of them over the years. For what it's worth they certainly don't strike me as members of anything remotely resembling an "old men's club". All the ones I know are iconoclastic, irreverent and highly individual and none of them seem at all misogynistic by temperament. In fact it's difficult to imagine them as members of a "club" at all.

TC-T's description sounds very like sour grapes to my ears.

Jonzarno 21st Sep 2018 14:54


Originally Posted by ACW599 (Post 10254705)
I'm not an LAA member but I've come into contact with many of them over the years. For what it's worth they certainly don't strike me as members of anything remotely resembling an "old men's club". All the ones I know are iconoclastic, irreverent and highly individual. I can barely imagine them as members of a "club" at all.

TC-T's description sounds very like sour grapes to my ears.

It is the well known tactic of “playing the man, not the ball”: a pretty infallible sign that the argument it is being used to support is specious.

Sir Niall Dementia 21st Sep 2018 15:32

See this response, she's been here before:

https://www.pprune.org/private-flyin...ml#post9550872

Someone take her spade away, her digging is becoming monotonous.

SND

piperboy84 21st Sep 2018 15:36

Was just reading in The Times what a nasty bunch of ****bags you bar stewards are😀👍

Midlifec 21st Sep 2018 15:47

Message to Tracey
 
my daughter flew her first solo a couple of weeks ago- alone, on her own and responsible for her own destiny four days after her fourteenth birthday, please refrain from denigrating her achievement by purveying your sanctimonious dishonest claptrap- I know who I have more respect for and it isn’t you Tracey ...........

DownWest 21st Sep 2018 17:43

What I find a bit odd, is that a jorno puts his name to a puff piece from TCT's PR team. It is not as if he is unaware of the discussions of the veracity of it all, as he quotes them. If he did not read some of this thread, then it is hardly balanced reporting and unworthy of the Times. If he did read this thread, then the article looks even worse.

Or, influence?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 21st Sep 2018 19:15

For those who may not have noticed but Ewald has commented on The Times article. Panic over, it was just "...probably inaccurate PR on her Africa trip". Well that's cleared it up for me. :ugh:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....86d636d278.jpg

Pilot DAR 21st Sep 2018 19:28

Ewald states that Ms. Curtis Taylor planned the flights, and piloted the plane, and it was a great job. Letting alone for the moment some concerns about PR accuracy, I recall some discussion about less than ideal airmanship in terms of flight through controlled or restricted airspace, some low flying, and a few damaged aircraft? Yeah, things happen from time to time, and I hope that the lessons learned from the occasions where it was less than a great job are presented in humble context, rather than seeming to be a part of the planned adventure! The just culture concept allows us to learn, forgive and move on - if the events were purely accidental, and not deliberate nor careless. In any case, a good mentoring pilot would convey that those things which did not work out so well, could have been done better.

Mike Flynn 21st Sep 2018 20:11

The Light Aviation Association Bill Woodham Award,which she wishes to recover,is for navigation.

Whoever flew the aircraft, trying to prove she did the nav is a different kettle of fish.

As I recall she had issues on the Africa trip where she penetrated restricted airspace.This was the journey for which the award was made.

Sam Rutherford has told me on a number of occasions Tracey had problems with navigation hence issues in making the Africa movie.Ewald had to be up front after the first few hops in South Africa.

To try and claim a navigation award for such a trip is a bold move.

The landing at Goodwood at the end of that trip was in pretty dismal weather but clearly two up.

Just like Sydney Ewald was not seen after landing.
Much as I would like Tracey to prove me wrong there is no evidence out there to illustrate any cross country solo flights she has ever made.

Chris Martyr 21st Sep 2018 20:23

Come along now Ewald !
The "old biplane" was in better condition than it was when new [ask your guys in Hungary]
The only reason the 'S' word keeps coming up with monotonous bloody regularity , is because your co-pilot kept telling everyone that she was !
So she "planned the trips & piloted the aeroplane" . Really !,,,,No Sh*t Sherlock . [ nowt to do with a certain Mr S. Rutherford then]
And who are the "jealous individuals" to whom you refer ?
Not the ones who self-finance their own flying by any chance is it ? You know , the ones like that British bloke Colin Hales by any chance ?

You've kept yourself reasonably out of ridicules way for most of this debacle . Don't go dropping your guard at this late stage mate !

piperboy84 21st Sep 2018 20:34

Ewalds comments are interesting, IIRC he has stated he wasn’t the pilot, TCT has stated the reason someone/anyone was in the front seat was as a casual ride-along for crew and guests just for the experience (a treat! If you will). So his comments about the journey inspiring young women to dream of flying aside, was he paying the project for his seemingly excessive airtime or was he being remunerated for his presence in the plane and out on those journeys, and if so what was he being paid for ? Or was he volunteering to inspire others and perhaps should be recognised for those efforts with trophy of his own, or if he was a paid member of the crew what was his job description or scope of work.it just doesn’t add up as to why he was there.

Ewald ,,, go on indulge me. Why were you there?

Pilot DAR 21st Sep 2018 20:44


So his comments about the journey inspiring young women to dream of flying aside
When I'm trying to inspire new people toward aviation, I take them flying, rather than an experienced pilot who already owns a plane!


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