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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

Pilot DAR 20th Jul 2018 10:00

If Ms. Curtis-Taylor is mingling with aviation friends, and doing a little recreational flying, she's probably entitled to the same anonymity which we would all expect to enjoy. If she is involved in promoting an aviation enterprise, it seems reasonable that that promotion be seen to be as forthright as our professional ethics would expect. Let's be careful what we're commenting on with respect to anyone....

Checklist Charlie 20th Jul 2018 11:15

Madams 'anonymity' would seem to be pretty much nonexistent after the widely known and published Africa, Australia and US of A flights. Later revelations regarding those flights could also be seen as not "as forthright as our professional ethics would expect". It is perhaps normal though unfortunate for her that anytime she 'pops up in public' her history will be what she is judged by and remembered for.

A come clean admission and an apology might change that in the long run otherwise the tainted memory will remain.
CC

Mike Flynn 22nd Jul 2018 21:33

Nice to see Tracey has resurfaced.

Also good to see Prince Michael promoting aviation.

Not much of a news story to turn up at Shuttleworth for a photo call.

Despite the best summer since 1976, TCT and the "Spirit of Victory" appear to be grounded.

As the saying goes some walk the walk while others talk the talk.



Midlifec 23rd Jul 2018 07:56

No Naval uniform in sight, something we should know?


[/QUOTE]

clareprop 23rd Jul 2018 08:08

I agree with comments that the lady should be left to get on with her life and to that end, I'm not sure what purpose this thread now serves. As I wrote before, any Google search returns the truth and criticism of her claims on page one so no one new to the saga could be under any misapprehension. I doubt TCT would even dip her toe in the PR/sponsorship aviation sector again given the vitriol that her last attempt produced.

Katamarino 29th Jul 2018 09:25

I went to Scotland's National Airshow yesterday and as I was walking to get some food I heard an announcement for a talk by Tracey. Obviously I had to go and listen! Overall I was impressed and thought she came off very well.

Some highlights:
- Solo was never mentioned, except in talking about what Heath and Johnson did. She made it very clear, to quote: "I wasn't doing this on my own" and talked a lot about the support team and logistics.
- She spoke about how right now is the best ever time to be a woman in aviation; money for scholarships is "sloshing around" and industry are "desperate to recruit more women". She said that women need to make "brave choices" and just go for it, if that's what they want.
- Gender issues are lower than ever before, and everything is in place to support women in aviation.

She really did come across as having a genuine love of flying.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 6th Aug 2018 23:51


She really did come across as having a genuine love of flying.
Yes she does but that does not justify getting her jolly paid for by sponsors who have been mislead.

I have said this before and I shall say it again, I have "friends" that move in very high circles. The latest is that her PR machine is about to kick into gear again and a move made to get the LAA decision over-turned on the grounds that there was not any intent to deceive. I won't go over it all again but that is not the impression that all the facts unravelled on here here suggests. You have to ask the question "would you give massive amounts of sponsorship if you knew that all you were doing was funding a dual trip to satisfy someones own personal dream?". This is the root question which TCT and BiaB have dodged from day one. Misdirection, lies and subterfuge surrounded her trips and that evidence is in the public domain for all to see.

By all means let her alone to enjoy her flying but I, and many many more, are not going to let this become anything more than it was. A very well funded jolly that got out of control.

Chris Martyr 8th Aug 2018 19:13


Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY (Post 10216775)
The latest is that her PR machine is about to kick into gear again and a move made to get the LAA decision over-turned .

Except it wasn't an "LAA decision" SWB . It was reached after a vote from the membership using the democratic process as laid down by LAA's published Memoranda & Articles of Association.
I was under the slightly mistaken misapprehension that the matter was concluded for all time after LAA-AGM, October 2016 . But have since been informed very reliably that this is actually not the case .
The fact that Curtis-Taylor's entourage pulled the wool over many people's eyes and she was awarded by the LAA for something she wanted them to believe took place but didn't has never been in contention.
If 'Team Tracey' are not happy with the outcome of LAA-AGM 2016's vote , then perhaps the whole process that took place then should be revisited . But this time , overseen by an externally contracted agency of auditing consultants .
She disingenuously cites people for maligning her via the media , yet still will not desist in fanning the embers of what many had hoped was a closed matter !

megan 8th Aug 2018 23:59


then perhaps the whole process that took place then should be revisited
To me that would be admitting that the original vote was somehow mismanaged. Of course the "Tracy Team" are upset, or not happy, about the outcome, because it didn't go their way. Just ignore them, the matter is closed. Are they actually able to force the LAA into revisiting the vote? I'd be surprised if that were the case.

Jonzarno 9th Aug 2018 06:30


Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY (Post 10216775)

The latest is that her PR machine is about to kick into gear again and a move made to get the LAA decision over-turned on the grounds that there was not any intent to deceive.

That is good news!

If true, then presumably it means that we will finally get answers to the Three Questions discussed several times in this thread, for example in this post which clearly confirms that Ms Curtis-Taylor is well aware of them.



Chris Martyr 9th Aug 2018 15:46


Originally Posted by megan (Post 10218710)
To me that would be admitting that the original vote was somehow mismanaged. .

Absolutely not Megan ! And I do apologise if my wording was such that you misconstrued my meaning . But for TC-T & co. to go back down that path would be madness beyond logic , but if they were daft enough to do it , then with view to the shenanigans of Oct'16 , it would be recommendable that externally audited consultants were on hand . People who were not at that AGM may be unaware that an attempt was made to fix the voting so as to preclude those voting by proxy . Curtis-Taylor's entourage were fairly prominent in the room and were hoping that they would 'do away' with normal practice and just have a show of hands from in the room.
There was no impropriety whatsoever on behalf of the LAA and Chairman Brian Davies conducted the proceedings impeccably and stamped on the vote-gerrymandering in pretty short order.
Furthermore , it should be borne in mind that Curtis-Taylor's situation has altered since Oct22nd 2016 . At that AGM , an A4 printout was given to those present showing supposed explanations to all those 'mis-understandings'. Quote : " It is clear from what I say about the Africa flight and subsequent expeditions that they were not solo flights" . a couple of paragraphs later comes this ; " At no time was there any suggestion that these later expeditions were solo flights , although some erroneous press coverage reported that they were".

All this was shown to attendees at the AGM . It was another 6 days before 'The Herne Bay Tapes' appeared publicly . Their impact needs no explanation .

So for Ms Curtis-Taylor , attempting to obtain any sort of redress from the past would be foolish indeed . A lose/lose situation in fact .
Megan is correct , the matter is closed ! Unfortunately for poor old JZ , he probably will never see any answers either .
But for TC-T . The option of lying low is the best option by a country mile

Jonzarno 9th Aug 2018 16:42


Unfortunately for poor old JZ , he probably will never see any answers either .
Oi! Less of the old! :{

BobD 27th Aug 2018 15:02


Originally Posted by Chris Martyr (Post 10219323)
But for TC-T . The option of lying low is the best option by a country mile

I would have thought so too Chris, but guess who is speaking at the LAA Rally this Friday
Welcome to the Light Aircraft Association
It will be interesting to hear what she has to say !

airpolice 27th Aug 2018 16:59

Interesting. That's a word for it.

DownWest 27th Aug 2018 19:21

I presume one can ask question of the speaker? That would be even more interesting.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 28th Aug 2018 13:30

Shouldn't that timetable event state "Bird (and a bloke) in a Biplane"?

I wouldn't want to spoil the event for anyone at all but I do hope someone asks the questions we have all been waiting for a reply to since this saga started. If ever there was an opportunity to be honest about it all then this event is the time to do so.
I wonder if you'll get to see the video from inside the cockpit at Winslow. ;-)

airpolice 28th Aug 2018 20:22

I think she's planning to get humiliated at Prestwick this weekend.

If she hadn't planned for it, then she'd better start now.

Any pointers to a one page summary, that I could make into a PDF and print off in bulk (for her audience) would be most welcome.

I'm struggling for a better question than, WTF was the Herne Bay video, if not the capture of a lie?

Jonzarno 28th Aug 2018 20:37


Originally Posted by airpolice (Post 10235689)
I think she's planning to get humiliated at Prestwick this weekend.

If she hadn't planned for it, then she'd better start now.

Any pointers to a one page summary, that I could make into a PDF and print off in bulk (for her audience) would be most welcome.

I'm struggling for a better question than, WTF was the Herne Bay video, if not the capture of a lie?

How often do I need to post the three questions? The last time was on this very page of this seemingly endless thread.....

I have to say say that Iím beginning to wonder how much of this thread is about getting the truth out in the open and how much it is about perpetuating the thread for its own sake.

For the sake of GA: please letís make it the former......... :ok:

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 28th Aug 2018 22:27


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 10235702)


How often do I need to post the three questions? The last time was on this very page of this seemingly endless thread.....

I have to say say that Iím beginning to wonder how much of this thread is about getting the truth out in the open and how much it is about perpetuating the thread for its own sake.

For the sake of GA: please letís make it the former......... :ok:

Post 'em up again mate. that link you posted earlier just brings you back to this page and not the list of questions. :ok:

Jonzarno 29th Aug 2018 07:59

OK here they are although the link works fine for me. I canít say Iím holding my breath waiting for an answer although, for me: if she would simply apologise, accept that she got carried away by her own publicity machine and has exaggerated what actually was a great experience I for one would happily accept that.

Anyhow, here are the questions:

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she PERSONALLY makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings? There are several pictures of her wearing them in this thread as well.



Chris Martyr 29th Aug 2018 08:40


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 10235702)

how much of this thread is about getting the truth out in the open and how much it is about perpetuating the thread for its own sake.



JZ : Your questions are as relevant now as they were 2 years ago ! The reason why this thread keeps perpetuating though , is simply because Curtis-Taylor keeps stonewalling them. The same as she will do on Friday if anyone has the temerity to interrupt her !
Because make no mistake ; she probably has no intention whatsoever of bringing up her somewhat ambiguous 'achievements' of the past . I would imagine that her talk will consist of a bit of 'aviation porridge' with a bit of STEM chucked in , then a clarion call to all the career-suppressed females of the 21st century to unshackle themselves from those iron railings and then follow Mrs Pankhurst-Taylor's steps into a wonderful career in aviation.
I may be wrong ! In fact , I hope I am wrong . With view to the sabre-rattling that has taken place from her side since LAA-AGM 2016 and the fact that this is the LAA's showcase event and the added fact that she doesn't really 'sit too well' with the majority of the membership , she may just have decided to return to Sywell and wipe the slate clean . No , I'm not on wacky-baccy , but should that be the case , then I will delete every post that I've put on here about her.
But in the highly likely event of that NOT happening , I just reiterate what happened the last time I saw TC-T at Sywell . She will be surrounded by her 'accomplices' the only person to speak will be her , and there will be one or two LAA high rollers lurking too ...............Just in case .
But @ JZ , given that your location is just a quick hop to Sywell ,,,,,,,,and if you've nothing else to do Friday..


Mike Flynn 1st Sep 2018 12:37

I am reliably informed Tracey flew in the the rally and answered all questions.




Forfoxake 1st Sep 2018 16:57


Originally Posted by Jay Sata (Post 10238865)
I am reliably informed Tracey flew in the the rally and answered all questions.

Very few questions and no awkward ones. Further report to follow.

27/09 1st Sep 2018 20:49


Originally Posted by Pittsextra (Post 10239047)
If your flying club is anything like mine most require CAVOK, wind within 5deg of runway heading, 2km of tarmac runway, nothing more sporty than a PA28 with fuel nothing less than tabs before "planning" to fly just over the horizon yet flaking out with a couple of circuits because it was "too bumpy"... Say it ain't so!

Surely you're taking the pi55?

Pilot DAR 2nd Sep 2018 01:20

We have reached the point where any further information is less relevant to the original theme of this thread, it's time to move on. Thanks for the passion and high held standards, hopefully those attributes throughout this thread will inspire pilots to fly safely, with honour and pride.

Pilot DAR 20th Sep 2018 09:41

In light of a recent Times article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...647ab8be2149d7

discussion of the topic is reopened. Lets avoid rehashing old topics of distant relevance, unkind bashing, and anything gender based. This topic moves forward for discussion based on piloting, representation/recognition of achievements, and yes, encouraging new pilots of either gender!

We want to encourage new pilots, because we're pilots! We will accept and encourage pilots of either gender equally. And, we expect pilots to fly, and represent their achievements objectively, and honesty, from personal logbook entries, to public presentations.

With that, discussions of the merits of public recognition and awards for Ms. Curtis-Taylor's achievements is open here....

arketip 20th Sep 2018 09:48


Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 10253589)
and anything gender based.

Well, In light of a recent Times article:

She is the one bringing up the gender in the discussion...

Pilot DAR 20th Sep 2018 10:01


She is the one bringing up the gender in the discussion..
Yes, but we males can resist being drawn down into a gender based discussion... right?

For myself, I like the idea that a pilot would reach out to attract young people of either gender to be pilots!

Sam Rutherford 20th Sep 2018 10:15

I wrote this to Charles Bremner of The Times:

From: Sam Rutherford <[email protected]>
Sent: 20 September 2018 11:56
To: 'Bremner, Charles'...
Subject: RE: Questions about Tracey Curtis-Taylor


Hi Charles,I’m surprised by your article, and deeply disappointed. I sense an agenda.
You have written “Curtis-Taylor and her team did not claim that she was solo, except for what she calls a slip of the tongue in one presentation.” – this statement is simply not true, as you well know.
The line “Some of her fans agree that she gave her adversaries ammunition by initially allowing the impression that she was alone.” is particularly generous. She was driving the impression that she was alone by everything she did and said (before, during and after the Africa trip). As you said to me yourself during our phonecall, it was only once the story started getting out that her version changed (four times).
I did not ‘lead the charge’, but I was certainly proactive in ensuring the correct version of events became known. Certainly Tracey was not telling anyone that it wasn’t solo, and it is almost certain that without the crash in Arizona the world would still believe all the flights had been done solo.
I’m disappointed, I expected your article to be accurate and responsible (and independent) – that’s all I have ever been in this sorry saga.
Best regards, Sam.
PS There’s not even an attempt to hide the real reason for the angle of your article, putting the link to the trailer for her “upcoming film” immediately beneath it. Follow the money…?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 20th Sep 2018 10:45

So it was a slip of the tongue in one presentation ! I seem to recall she made that slip TWICE in the one presentation and..... having paused for dramatic effect...... she emphasized the word SOLO in both "slips".
Same as the "ALONE in an open cockpit" presentation slide- was that just a slip of the finger on the keyboard?
The interview with the reporter (fulldetails are in this thread somewhere) where they confirmed to me that you were talking to them about SOLO flights.

Trying to pull the gender card doesn't wash with me. The attempt to get to the truth would have been just the same if this was a man making the outlandish claims she made. If it was Ewald getting all the credits and awards and it was he was was making the false claims but it was subsequently found that he was accompanied by TCT then he would be the one getting the flak.

Sorry Tracey, doesn't work like that, you cannot hide behind your gender; man or woman we would want the truth. The fact that the aviation community (men and women) can see through the charade has nothing to do with your gender; it has a lot to do with you embellishing the tale.

clareprop 20th Sep 2018 11:30

Once again, her two direct quotes in the video where she states she was solo are brushed aside - this time as, 'a slip of the tongue'.

The Times article may bring people to this thread so I hope the moderators won't mind if I post the video below. A fair minded person seeing the video will find no sexism, envy or anger in it. Just words straight from Ms Curtis-Taylor.


Sam Rutherford 20th Sep 2018 12:01

As I have been brought back in to this saga, I'll be watching the next few weeks with interest.

Depending on the wording of the LAA proposal, I may put my own file together for consideration by the members.

This blatant manipulation of press/public is impressive, I must say.
  1. Individual has a film they want to sell.
  2. Individual has a damaged reputation.
  3. Individual gets renowned newspaper to write a whitewash/positive piece to repair reputation.
  4. Individual sells film (link to trailer at bottom of newspaper article for everyone's convenience!)
It's not even being done covertly or with any subtlety!

Amazing.

pulse1 20th Sep 2018 12:05

As a member of the LAA I feel quite insulted by the playing of the gender card, particularly in an attempt to reverse the LAA decision to revoke her award. When I watched the TV film of her flight from Cape Town I felt nothing but admiration for her, OK plus a little envy, and it never occurred to me that this was special because she was a woman. She seems to have kept her head down for the last couple of years and if, prior to that, she had admitted to being carried away by the PR machine she now would probably be in a better position to use her considerable skills to evangelise for aviation and women in particular. However, this article has just poked the sleeping beast and revealed an arrogance towards LAA members and miltary types in particular which I find totally unacceptable.
I wonder if those with military connections will be similarly insulted by this article.

pilotmike 20th Sep 2018 12:12


Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 10253589)
.... Lets avoid ... anything gender based..

How can that possibly happen after she repeatedly clings on to referring to herself as a 'bird' - not just 'in a biplane' but also in the TITLE to her forthcoming (undoubtedly self-aggrandising) 'epic' of that exact name!

As so many women - and indeed men - are quite correctly disgusted by such a derogatory name for a woman, how can she possibly expect to be taken seriously, and to avoid gender bias in return for her daft choice to cling to using such an out-dated, derogatory, insulting name for women? She apparently has no concept of doing herself, or women in general, any favours, by continuing to make this such a gender-based, indeed gender-divisive issue, as well as by continuing to use such a ridiculous expression.

Talk about reaping what you sow! I guess there will be lots more fun watching this madness unfold now that she is cranking up the (self)publicity to gas mark 11 again!

newsjunkie 20th Sep 2018 12:43

Question: If TCT had been a man and had gone to Boeing and Artemis and proposed that he and an Austrian airline pilot (thanks Charles Bremner for that piece of info) were planning various jaunts around the world in an old aircraft he had rebuilt, would those companies have coughed up half a million quid? And would all the newspapers have fallen over themselves to cover the jaunts?

Cazalet33 20th Sep 2018 12:58

No

Is the short and honest answer

Thud105 20th Sep 2018 13:02

Exactly. 'Bloke in a Biplane' doesn't have the same cachet does it?

Cazalet33 20th Sep 2018 13:06


'Bloke in a Biplane' doesn't have the same cachet does it?
A bloke, wiv anuvver bloke, flying over one or two landmasses of the Earth in the 21st century really isn't a commercial proposititon.

That's not she was/is selling.

spekesoftly 20th Sep 2018 13:07

Can someone please help me with the identity of the gentleman speaking at the beginning of the film trailer linked in the Times article?

runway30 20th Sep 2018 13:07

I have never viewed this as misogynism, it is about exposing deceit. As you peel away one layer, there is always another underneath. In the Times article it says “Curtis -Taylor and her team did not claim that she was solo, except for what she calls a slip of the tongue in one presentation. Over Africa and on the Australia journey she flew most of the legs with a member of her support crew or a guest in the passenger seat in front of the pilot.” Compare this statement with the picture of the slide behind TCT in post 61 “7000 miles in 32 legs over 6 weeks alone in an open cock-pit plane”. That isn’t a momentary slip of the tongue, that is a calculated, pre-meditated deceit. That is before you get into the argument over whether a commercial pilot who happens to own the aircraft is a member of her support crew or a guest?


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