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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 11th Jul 2017 00:25


Originally Posted by brakedwell (Post 9826547)
Where photos taken during the oceanic sectors on her "Around the World" flight?

Most certainly, but most people know what the 1st class seating in a Dreamliner looks like ;-)

clareprop 11th Jul 2017 10:15

OK, those Facebook screen grabs from Jay Sata say it all.

I thought maybe, just maybe she was going to do something honorable but it would appear it's same old, same old....

Wikipedia editing continues to support her but there is an interesting paragraph from someone on the 'talk' page of her entry which appears to have been ratified by Sam Rutherford. What is astounding is the flat refusal by wiki editors to accept facts as presented to them:

The Truth[edit]
I don't know how Wikipedia works but what I have written below is the truth. Take it or leave it as you wish...

Tracey Curtis-Taylor formed an idea to recreate a flight from Cape Town, South Africa to Goodwood, UK mirroring that of Lady Mary Heath’s. To raise funding for the trip she gained major sponsorship from Boeing Aircraft in the USA and Artemis Fund Managers in the UK. From the beginning, this was to be a solo flight as stated in numerous archived articles on Curtis-Taylor’s website (birdinabiplane.com), her sponsors press releases and the general media. To assist in this flight, her company hired the services of Sam Rutherford, an expert in sport and activity logistics for expeditions and part of the prepare2go group. At some point in the preparations, the team realised that the flight could not be performed solo. The flight took place between November 2013 and February 2014. A considerable amount of media coverage occurred and Ms Curtis-Taylor commenced a round of press, TV, radio and speaking engagements. At the same time, her company started planning another trip from the UK to Australia to take place from October 2015 to January 2016. This trip also started to be mentioned during the various engagements. With very few exceptions, the interviews and media coverage referred to her ‘solo’ Cape Town flight and the upcoming ‘solo’ Australian flight. During this time, Curtis-Taylor’s website continued to refer to the original flight as solo and Curtis-Taylor openly referred to it as ‘solo’ during her speaking engagements of which an example appears in the Wikipedia article. Rutherford had become aware of this coverage but out of professional courtesy, he decided that any denial of the status of the flights should come from Curtis-Taylor. However, he felt his hand was being forced when Curtis-Taylor started to receive awards for flying solo which he felt was simply unfair. He therefore wrote to Curtis-Taylor stating his concerns and asking her to take action. He heard nothing more and as awards and press coverage were increasing, he wrote again and stated he would have to make his feelings known publically unless she did so first. The only obvious reaction can be seen on archived web pages from Curtis-Taylor’s website at the time using the waybackmachine.org website. All previous references to her flying solo were removed. Rutherford then started to explain his position on aviation forums. These communications are all archived on Flyer Forum and Pprune. None state anything other than Curtis-Taylor was not flying solo and her co-pilot was Ewald Gritsch, the owner of the company which build her Stearman. Strangely, throughout the controversy, on TV reports and the documentary, Gritsch can be seen in the front cockpit of the aircraft yet this fact was never raised by observers at the time. As Rutherford’s accusations became more public, Curtis-Taylor made the first of four statements on her website, the essence of which was that she had never stated she flew ‘solo’ but that she was the ‘sole’ pilot. This caused a furore in the aviation world because there is no such definition of ‘sole’ pilot and the majority of people who had followed the story from the beginning had believed the flight to be solo. When they revisited archived material, the general view was that there had been a determined effort to deceive. Presently, there are a number of statements on the Curtis-Taylor site. The current situation is that Curtis-Taylor states she did not fly solo for at least 90% of the time she was in the aircraft. She further states that 80% of the time, she flew with Ewald Gritsch. She maintains, despite considerable evidence to the contrary, that this has been her position from the outset. In Ewald Gritsch’s statement, he agrees he was in the front-cockpit but states the aircraft is flown from the rear. This is incorrect. The aircraft is a trainer and since its launch in the 1940’s, it has always been possible to fly the aircraft from either cockpit. Curtis-Taylor suggests that the accusations against her are ‘anti-feminist’ and untrue. She further suggests that ‘she could have done more to correct misleading reports that made liberal use of the phrase “flying solo”.’ The obvious question is why didn’t she do this with the hundreds (literally) of articles from her sponsors, the press, TV media and her own website? I am not Sam Rutherford, I neither know him or have met him. I have no link to anyone involved in this issue. I am however, a pilot who has flown his first solo, first solo cross country, first solo night flight, first solo instrument flight and many first solo’s on complex types. Like other pilots, while I don’t wear the achievements on my sleeve, they mean a lot to me and I am intensely irritated that someone should attempt to pull the wool over the public’s eyes and be rewarded for it. As Rutherford has always stated, it’s just not fair. I now leave others to decide if the Wikipedia page on Tracey Curtis-Taylor is accurate.Veritasaviator (talk) 17:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I am afraid most of this is original research and not allowed on wikipedia if you are not directly involved then none of what you say can be supported other than your own opinons. Wikipedia works on reliable sources (which do not include blogs and forums) not opinion or hearsay (refer Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth), thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 17:59, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
MilbourneOne Fully understand your comment but of course, while it is my opinion, it is also supported by references. The facts I state are very simply provable by looking at those references. The question is, do Wikipedia editors wish to continue to have the site reflect Curtis-Taylor as shown now or comment on the deceit. Ignoring the truth because of 'rules' is still just ignoring the truth.Veritasaviator (talk) 18:08, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
You need to provide sources for all your claims, not expect others to go and search for themselves, especially if you are hoping to change the content of the article. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:20, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
"""OK. Here's two. The first one from Curtis-Taylor's website in February 2015. Her site, her responsibility and the second, a clip from one of her speaker engagements where the words are directly from her: [2]Veritasaviator (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

[3]

References

Jump up ^ https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...ctual&IType=LA
Jump up ^ "Her solo open-cockpit biplane flight from Cape Town to Goodwood was the realisation of something beyond a dream.". Tracey Curtis-Taylor.
Jump up ^ "Tracey Curtis Taylor - PR Agency".
"""Martinevans123..two sources, both from Curtis-Taylor, stating that Cape Town to UK was a solo flight. Now read latest statements from Curtis-Taylor on Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker where she states they were not solo and advise me what more I need to do. Many thanksVeritasaviator (talk) 18:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Veritsaviator this page is for improving the article not for directing research (which we dont do), you need to tell us whats wrong in the article and then make a case with reliable references why something should be change/deleted/added. Wikipedia relies on what other sources say about things we dont synthesis the sources ourselves. Also youtube is not reliable, you need to find secondary sources to support interpretations of speeches. MilborneOne (talk) 18:47, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Oh and please dont use upper case it is considered to be shouting and bad manners, we are just trying to explain how wikipedia works so you can make a case, we are trying to help you here. MilborneOne (talk) 18:53, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
""MilbourneOne..I apologise for the block wording (not capitals) it is not my intention to 'shout' or be offensive. I am not a Wikipedia expert. Quite frankly, to refuse to accept a first person speech on Youtube in this instance is questionable and one can only assume you have some ulterior motive? The references stand to any reasonable persons scrutiny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veritasaviator (talk • contribs) 19:05, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

That is called a personal attack on wikipedia (read WP:NPA) and can get you blocked from editing, perhaps consider withdrawing your remarks. The article has been modified in the last few hours that cover a lot of your comments, have a read and come back and tell us clearly what needs to be changed and we can help make the article balanced per the sources and with due weight to the issues, but consider how you treat others, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:10, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you are offended MilbourneOne..that is not my intention. My comments in my first statement stand and I have nothing further to add. If an encyclopedia is supposed to reflect the truth then what I have written and the quoted references will do so if incorporated. If a video of Curtis-Taylor speaking the words '..my solo flight from Cape Town..' is not good enough then I'm not sure what further proof will be acceptable. I have made my point for which I thank those who have read it and now I will move on.Veritasaviator (talk) 19:30, 6 November 2016 (UTC) OUT
My name is Sam Rutherford. I was there throughout, and everything posted by Veritasaviator is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.225.75.202 (talk) 18:14, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 11th Jul 2017 11:04

That conversation is unreal. They won't accept TCT herself saying on video that she was solo as Primary Source. It beggars belief.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 11th Jul 2017 18:29

1 Attachment(s)
Let's play a game of Spot The Difference :-)
Thank you to the PPRUNER for the steer in the right direct. Images from TCTs Facebook page in 2016, and the newly photo-shopped image from the American Airpower Website.

Begs the question if the aircraft has yet been re-badged, surely a genuine image of The Spirit of Victory exists, so why resort to subterfuge... oh hang on...that's the norm for her and the team. What else has been digitally manipulated? Proves that you can believe NOTHING that is associated with this Round-the-galaxy flight.

Planet Basher 11th Jul 2017 18:57

This looks like a more serious attempt.

Afghan-American female pilot seeks to inspire young women - ABC News

brakedwell 11th Jul 2017 19:07

If her epic almost "Round the World" flight was due to be completed on July 9th, why are there no press releases showing the Spirit of Infamy orbiting the Statue of Liberty before TCT receives a rapturous welcome at Republic Airport?

londonblue 12th Jul 2017 15:00


Originally Posted by Planet Basher (Post 9827763)

Now that really is impressive.

Sam Rutherford 12th Jul 2017 15:07

Sorry, actually it isn't. She came to the US as a toddler - has lived there all her life. To all intents and purposes she's American...

How this is supposed to help Afghani women in Afghanistan is somewhat difficult to see.

Also, there have previously been Afghan female pilots in their air force - this is much more inspirational to young Afghans (of either gender). One here: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/27/po...lum/index.html

And a passing reference to two female helicopter pilots from 30+ years ago here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niloofar_Rahmani

londonblue 12th Jul 2017 15:39


Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford (Post 9828582)
Sorry, actually it isn't. She came to the US as a toddler - has lived there all her life. To all intents and purposes she's American...

How this is supposed to help Afghani women in Afghanistan is somewhat difficult to see.

Also, there have previously been Afghan female pilots in their air force - this is much more inspirational to young Afghans (of either gender). One here: First female Afghan air force pilot asks US for asylum - CNNPolitics.com

And a passing reference to two female helicopter pilots from 30+ years ago here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niloofar_Rahmani

Fair enough, but when I said that was impressive I was really talking about the flying, not being the first, or even where she is from. In terms of flying she's doing everything other people aren't.

Sam Rutherford 12th Jul 2017 15:47

Well, actually, flying a small plane around the world - particularly the one she is flying - is not terribly difficult either (and people are doing it all the time).

B70 12th Jul 2017 18:44

Maybe I'm just becoming an old cynic but, whenever I hear of yet another woman about to set off 'round the world in a small aeroplane to inspire others', the words 'attention-seeking narcissist' spring to mind. :rolleyes:

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 16th Jul 2017 01:35

More info on the trans US jolly is starting to emerge. Including a non-photoshopped image of the Spirit of Victory.

Pilot resumes cross-continent adventure, stops in Galesburg | National Stearman Fly-In

http://www.imgrum.org/media/15562814...177_1526350532

Pitchpoller 20th Jul 2017 21:48

Do the good ole boys of that warbird shed on Long Island really believe that she flew that Boeing around the world?

Didn't they know that the aircraft arrived in the States on two pallets, on both occasions of its arrival, and that the "pilot/s(?)" probably traveled First or Biz class in a jet, albeit a Boeing one?

They certainly wouldn't view a coast to coast flight in a biplane as "historic". Even a mediocre pilot can very easily fly such a distance over a period of a week or two. A hundred years ago mail pilots were flying coast to coast in biplanes which had vastly less reliable engines. They probably didn't use an iPad to navigate.

Didn't any of them think to ask her how she flew a Stearman across the Pacific? Or even across the Atlantic? Narsarsuaq to Goose Bay without ferry tanks would have been quite a trip! Hawaii to Burbank even more so. That space in the front was occupied by a pilot for most of her flights, so no room for an extra tank there. Where did she hide the tank? Under her modesty?

Can we expect her to be given a medal for her latest achievement?

aviator_38 7th Aug 2017 01:15

Hello all,

A mate sent this link, on Shaesta Waiz,who is now in Singapore.

Ex-Afghan refugee lets her dream take wing, Singapore News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

well done ,young woman.Stay true to your values and the very best to you in your quest. :ok: :D

Cheers

Nige321 21st Aug 2017 20:44

Heads up... Anyone up for some awkward questions...

BEagle 21st Aug 2017 22:19

What on earth do Yeovilton think they're doing?

Dear Marc Stone, if you think that Curtis-Taylor is in any way worthy of being associated with the name of the late Capt Brown, then I strongly urge you to think again!

Checklist Charlie 22nd Aug 2017 00:39

Lt Marc Stone, John McEnroe was heard to often ask "you can't be serious" during some of his many tennis matches.

I now ask you the same question.

CC

Jonzarno 22nd Aug 2017 06:44

Is it April 1 again? They can't possibly be serious. :yuk:

Mind you: having just read Winkle's superb autobiography, I reckon he would probably cr4p himself laughing.... :8

Haraka 22nd Aug 2017 07:05

Why don't you go along Beags?
With a few other like-minded souls ( Nige?) it could be a very interesting opportunity to put the record straight, from both sides.
It's a bit of a long haul for me unfortunately.
What would be unforgivable of course would be if the right to ask questions was denied or excused .
I think most have us have witnessed the "We are sorry but the speaker is unable to take questions due to another urgent appointment". etc.etc. ploy.

rog747 22nd Aug 2017 08:28

26 September 2017 RNAS Yeovilton Lecture 18.00
 

Originally Posted by Nige321 (Post 9868874)
Heads up... Anyone up for some awkward questions...

i live not far - i'm gonna go

27/09 22nd Aug 2017 09:38


Originally Posted by Nige321 (Post 9868874)
Heads up... Anyone up for some awkward questions...

There needs to be one or two carefully thought out questions. What gets asks may depend on what transpires on the day. Even more importantly there needs to be follow up questions in readiness, to suit the range of potential answers to the initial question.

Also remember the golden rule, Never ask a question you don't know the answer to.

sharpend 22nd Aug 2017 16:59


Originally Posted by BEagle (Post 9868954)
What on earth do Yeovilton think they're doing?

Dear Marc Stone, if you think that Curtis-Taylor is in any way worthy of being associated with the name of the late Capt Brown, then I strongly urge you to think again!

Totally agree.

BEagle 22nd Aug 2017 18:07

Thanks, bluntie - you are a chap who respects traditional values.

Currently I contribute a monthly sum to Navy Wings - after all, the FAA gave me my first flight in a military aeroplane in 1966. Coal hole of a 'Vixen at the Farnborough Air Show; mostly I was as sick as a parrot but loved every second. But if the RN has stooped to the level of inviting this woman to speak, I will most certainly be reviewing my future donation policy.

Nige321 22nd Aug 2017 21:19

Beagle, it would appear that the RAeS is simply hiring the venue for one of their branch lectures? Would Yeovilton even know the subject or speaker for the event?

Lind1795 23rd Aug 2017 06:38

Yeovilton is a local branch of the RAeS. The event is being organised by a Lieutenant and TCT is being asked, volunteered, paid or whatever to give the Eric Brown lecture. I would say there is no doubt that Yeovilton know exactly who the speaker is etc. Don't forget she is an Honorary Lieutenant Commander also.
I find it so disrespectful to the memory of Captain Brown that this lecture should be given by someone who is not worthy. Don't forget she also gave the Shackleton lecture as well. Simply insulting.

airpolice 23rd Aug 2017 08:55

She's only an Honorary Lt Cmdr in the eyes of the real world.

On her Facebook page she is an Honorary Commander. Not the biggest lie that she tells, but significant in terms of the location for this public appearance.

There can be few better examples of "self promotion" than this.

Chris Martyr 23rd Aug 2017 14:30

Something just doesn't ring true here !
I simply cannot believe that there is such a dearth of good quality speakers around the lecturing circuit that they have to resort to these dark depths.
I also cannot think how anyone with any sort of interest in aviation would want to give up their leisure time to listen to the dross which will she will undoubtedly be spouting forth.
But in the event of Lt Marc Stone having any unsold tickets , then I'm sure that the TC-T Rent-a-Mob will be on hand with rapturous applause and standing ovations.
She's pulled that one off before !
And anyone who's going along to nail her with any proper and relevant questions will probably get stamped on too.
And don't bother sending in any by-proxy either . Team-Tracey doesn't "do" by-proxy.

sharpend 23rd Aug 2017 18:34

Well at least she turned up at the LAA to collect an award and was told that the members had voted her out. I saw her afterwards and she was shocked. Trouble is with those so-called 'celebs' they sometimes believe what the media write. Perhaps, with a bit of luck, no one will turn up for her lecture.

Chris Martyr 23rd Aug 2017 20:19


Originally Posted by sharpend (Post 9870846)
Well at least she turned up at the LAA to collect an award and was told that the members had voted her out. I saw her afterwards and she was shocked.


Nearly correct old chum ,,,but wasn't quite as straightforward as that .


Trust me..!;) I know a couple of blokes who were there .


She and her cohorts had a darn good go at outrunning the truth on that day too...and bloody nearly succeeded .

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 26th Aug 2017 19:51

This is a disgrace. I had the great fortune to meet Capt Brown many many years ago whilst I was at Yeovilton. He was a guest at a Dining-In night. How anyone can mention TCT and EWB in the same sentence beggars belief, let alone having her lecture on his achievements.
Lt Marc Stone has provided a contact number. I think it would be fair to give him a call and bring him up to speed pretty sharpish to prevent any further embarrassment.

Crash one 26th Aug 2017 21:32

I feel ashamed to have been a member of the RNAS. I didn't fly then, I just pulled them out of the wreckage, and had the greatest respect.
I cannot imagine a bigger insult to the memory of such a highly respected aviator and gentleman.
Utterly disgusted doesn't come close.

Haraka 28th Aug 2017 08:19

Perhaps, at the eagerly awaited Yeovilton presentation , TC_T might possibly be able to explain the recently added comments on her "Wickie" site including that apparently:
" On both US tours the Stearman biplane was shipped across the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, as it does not have the fuel range or instrumentation to cover such distances." (added italics)

Mike Flynn 30th Aug 2017 20:44

In the true spirit of promoting GA and global flyers it would be nice to think that Tracey Curtis Taylor will turn up to the LAA annual event. If nothing else to share her admiration for Colin Hales who managed to go the hard way around the world without sponsorship before his mishap in Japan. Or perhaps to admire those such as Maurice Kirk who battle their way across the hard bits of the world and never give up. Sadly I have looked at the programme and there is no mention of the woman who is an inspiration to 'aviatrix'.

Haraka 31st Aug 2017 09:37

Her occupation is "Aviator".

It says so on her Wicki entry :)

homonculus 31st Aug 2017 17:13

I emailed the RAeS politely asking whether they were aware of TCT's controversies and asking why they had chosen her for such an important lecture.

They havent even had the decency to acknowledge the email

Strange how these organisations just go dumb when challenged......

Katamarino 1st Sep 2017 05:03

We shouldn't make the mistake of thinking these organisations strive to represent aviation in general. They strive to represent themselves. The views of others are meaningless to them, which is their right, of course. It doesn't inspire any respect from those who aren't part of "the club" though.

G-KEST 3rd Sep 2017 18:21


Originally Posted by Chris Martyr (Post 9870919)
Nearly correct old chum ,,,but wasn't quite as straightforward as that .


Trust me..!;) I know a couple of blokes who were there .


She and her cohorts had a darn good go at outrunning the truth on that day too...and bloody nearly succeeded .

Well Chris it is nearly a year since that momentous AGM when the majority of LAA members who voted, either in person or by postal vote, on the motion to strip the award from TC-T won the day. I was personally surprised at the support she got at the AGM, though it was insufficient to sway the result. The PR machine must have worked overtime but their efforts did not affect the result. Justice was done and I am proud to have played a part. The astonishing thing is that the saga continues on pPrune to the extent of nearly 200 pages. Is it not time to just forget this overblown female aviatrix whose cover is totally blown. My father once said to me "There are some silly buggers in China.... and they are not all there....!!!!".
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :mad:

Mike Flynn 5th Sep 2017 13:13

She is releasing a movie next year Barry. Maybe we will see you and Chris featured?

Meanwhile I see that N56200 is back in Austria and went for a local flight on August 25th.

There can't be many Stearmans that have crossed the Atlantic three times this summer :-) Full details of the USA trip,here http://www.birdinabiplane.com
[IMG]https://preview.ibb.co/cmGs9F/IMG_4497.jpg[/IMG]

Chris Martyr 7th Sep 2017 08:24

LAA-AGM 2016 was actually very enjoyable from the grass-roots aviation point of view. Listening to the wonderful talk by Arthur Ord-Hume was a privlilege indeed and Rusty , the old Lancaster boy did a superb turn with his understated and self deprecating sense of humour and the way he made light of the awful times that he went through.
Even Brian Davies' bit on LAA's governance/balance books was interesting , as I knew that membership figures had dipped slightly , but was unaware that the aircraft ownership figures amongst the membership were considerably higher, which meant increased revenue. Plus some great aeroplanes turned up too.
There was only one thing that cast a shadow over that day , but as George Formby said,,"turned out nice again di'nt it".


As for Jay's comment about making it into a movie,,,,,,,,I'm still chuckling over that one. I reckon Barry should be played by George Clooney and I should be played by Brad Pitt. [ although, Pitt the Elder would be more apt]
Ewald should be played by Tom Cruise . It would need to be a short guy so we can't see his head in that front cockpit.
As for the "star",,,,,,,,,,,,,I can't think of a better actress than; TC-T as Herself....
Right , I'm off to Deanland,,,,[at least , when I've stopped giggling that is]

Jonzarno 8th Sep 2017 05:49


Rusty , the old Lancaster boy did a superb turn with his understated and self deprecating sense of humour and the way he made light of the awful times that he went through.
I had the privilege of flying to Belgium with Rusty a week or so ago when, amongst other things, we visited the site where the Lancaster with which he collided after a raid on the rail yards at Hasselt crashed, as well as the cemetery where the crew members of that aircraft are buried. For those who don't know him, he flew 30 operations winning, amongst other things, a DFC. He also earned the right to wear his RAF wings the hard way.

As you say: he is a remarkable man who has carried with him for over 70 years memories of things that nobody should ever have to face, as well as self-deprecating courage that is in stark contrast to what he might have referred to as "line shooting" in the vernacular of his times and which has featured so prominently in this thread.

BTW: I'd like to make it clear that, although Rusty was in the right seat, and is a better qualified pilot than I will ever be, I was the "Sole Pilot" :p :O


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