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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

First_Principal 4th Nov 2016 05:08


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 9566573)
FP

There are many posting here who think that Ms Curtis-Taylor should decline or return the awards she has received given that they appear to have resulted from the mistaken belief that her flights were solo when in fact they were not; and more of us who object strongly to her wearing RAF wings that, by her own admission, she never earned.

So can I ask what you think should be the outcome of this situation, and how do you think that that outcome can best be assured?

Jonzarno, I don't think you can assure such an outcome, rather you can point something out and hope that a person has sufficient integrity to take heed and do the right thing.

Anything else is really a hollow victory, and besides too much pointing out could reflect more badly upon the accuser than the accused don't you think?

FP.

The Old Fat One 4th Nov 2016 06:42

FP,

I have frequently harbored the same doubts as you.

Then I've read what this "decent person" has threatened. I've listened to what this "decent person" has bragged about (from her own mouth, on camera). I've waited patiently, and in vain, for this "decent person" to reveal the factual answers to some very simple questions and, most recently, I've read about how it is all everybody's fault apart from hers.

And I'll tell you what...before I knew a single solitary thing about her, I found the epithet "Bird in a Biplane" somewhat nauseating and once I'd seen a photo the thought..."self-deluded narcissist" sprang to mind.

So I'm afraid I'm struggling for the sympathy and empathy you require...and I assure I am more than averagely endowed with both those qualities, indeed throughout my career, the latter was commentated on many times.

I expect a great many professional and ex-professional aviators feel exactly the same and will continue to do so. Finally, I hold myself to my own standards and if something like this had unwittingly dragged me in, I would have put a stop to it in the proper way as soon as it became apparent it was snowballing. As would most on here. It's how we live our lives.

Jonzarno 4th Nov 2016 07:11


Originally Posted by First_Principal (Post 9566762)
Jonzarno, I don't think you can assure such an outcome, rather you can point something out and hope that a person has sufficient integrity to take heed and do the right thing.

Anything else is really a hollow victory, and besides too much pointing out could reflect more badly upon the accuser than the accused don't you think?

FP.

FP

Please substitute the word "assured" with the word "achieved" in the question I asked.

To answer your latest point: provided that the "pointing out" is done in a reasoned and balanced way, I don't see that reflecting badly on the person doing the pointing out.

I do agree that some of the posts in this thread have been immoderate to say the least, and have not helped make the case because of that. That said, they clearly do reflect the strength of feeling that Ms Curtis-Taylor and her team have created as a result of their actions both in the way these flights were conducted and, just as importantly, in how the subsequent publicity has been handled.

As stated a few posts ago, the TCT PR team's strategy now seems to be a combination of managing her WIKI entry and her Facebook page whilst waiting for the storm to die down. Judging by the continuing reaction here, that may take a while yet.

Cessnafly 4th Nov 2016 09:17

Quote:
"From the outset we in the Air League knew it was not a solo flight and that point was clearly made when we made our award in May this year."


Quote:
"I have no direct knowledge of the HCAP award but understand it is for similar reasons, and with the same knowledge.



So, it would seemingly appear that the misrepresentation and deception was indeed an 'in-house' group effort.

Strangely, the public at large and the LAA DID NOT know about any one of these flights being dual. ie with another licensed pilot aboard.

One thing that still doesn't make much sense. Why is it if everyone should have known about TCT only flying for 10% of the time 'solo' 'alone' did she then go on to accuse Sam Rutherford and others in tabloid newspapers of attempting to discredit her? After all, surely, his story would have only been consistent with her own/Air League and HCAP.

I think some people need to go back and get the story straight, then come back, we'll still be here.

wiggy 4th Nov 2016 09:47

I'm not all at suprised by the statements that T C-T is good company or pleasant to be with (when it suits her) ...she'd be carp at getting support etc if she wasn't, goes with the territory etc,.


Ms TC-T could issue an apology for causing offence regarding the use of a non-entitled flying badge and desist from wearing them again. That would be enough for me.
By her own admission she has made several comments about how decades ago in common with other women she wasn't allowed to do a course that would lead to the award of the brevet... so she's either snuck off and done a "wings" course in secret somewhere (being supposedly taught to fly warbirds by ex mil QFIs doesn't count but I know most people here know that) or she's being a Walt.

I'd suggest she issues a full and frank statement over why she feels entitled to wear them or she stops wearing them.

Piltdown Man 4th Nov 2016 10:27

Should one ever feel the need for an emetic, search for Kate Tojeiro and find her interview with one of the most self-centred and least modest aviators in the world. If you can suppress your gag reflex you will be rewarded at 2:29. In relation to her recently completed flight from Cape Town to Goodwood she says: "I do use modern technology in this. I have a Garmin 430. So I'm using modern navigaton in it, and that made my life a lot easier. So in that respect, I had it a lot easier than Mary Heath. But that's my only concession." Still hanging onto your breakfast? Listen on. At 13:40, Kate asks the question "What is it about flying on your own?". You now hold your breath, waiting for the correction... "Do you know, the sheer euphoria..." There is no correction, just more of the same old "me" and "I".

Now if you didn't know any better, you would assume this brilliant aviatrix had just done battle with every bit of weather, bad luck, controlled airspace, overly bureaucratic government department and hostile terrain etc. between South Africa and the U.K. Which is where this whole thing started.

So 14 days after the first trip, a released interview and no correction.

PM

charliegolf 4th Nov 2016 10:29

What's really disturbing is that this Walt-ess woman has spawned enough vitriol to run to 129 pages in a thread! Sir Phillip Green stole half a billion pounds from hard working shop workers and only rated 3 pages. Go figure eh? Is Tracey actually stealing/ embezelling/ defrauding anyone?

CG

rugmuncher 4th Nov 2016 10:33


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 9566953)
I'm not all at suprised by the statements that T C-T is good company or pleasant to be with (when it suits her) ...she'd be carp at getting support etc if she wasn't, goes with the territory etc,.



By her own admission she has made several comments about how decades ago in common with other women she wasn't allowed to do a course that would lead to the award of the brevet... so she's either snuck off and done a "wings" course in secret somewhere (being supposedly taught to fly warbirds by ex mil QFIs doesn't count but I know most people here know that) or she's being a Walt.

I'd suggest she issues a full and frank statement over why she feels entitled to wear them or she stops wearing them.

"An old friend from the Air Force also gave me his original RAF Wings that I pin to my flight suit."JETGALA MAGAZINE - Life Beyond First Class

Whatever emotional connection she feels she has with these wing, she should NOT be wearing them.

Keeping them in her pocket or Velcro them to the instrument panel, but do not wear them.

Also on the same link, this quote from her is hoghly amusing cosidering the claims by her and the problems on Wiki about her occupation of Pilot.
“I’VE NEVER BEEN A PROFESSIONAL FLYER.
I’M JUST AN ENTHUSIASTIC AVIATOR”

We'll have to wait and see if the completion of the US trip in 2017 actually goes ahead as stated on the Bird-&-A-Bloke website.

Cessnafly 4th Nov 2016 10:38

"What's really disturbing is that this Walt-ess woman has spawned enough vitriol to run to 129 pages in a thread! Sir Phillip Green stole half a billion pounds from hard working shop workers and only rated 3 pages".

I think that is because we can see that that specific situation is in hand and being adequately dealt with. Perhaps 10,000 pages worldwide.

On the other hand, here, the TCT debacle, we're just getting the two fingered salute and told that the show goes on.

See the difference now?

londonblue 4th Nov 2016 10:53


What's really disturbing is that this Walt-ess woman has spawned enough vitriol to run to 129 pages in a thread! Sir Phillip Green stole half a billion pounds from hard working shop workers and only rated 3 pages. Go figure eh? Is Tracey actually stealing/ embezelling/ defrauding anyone?
This is an aviation based forum. It's therefore not surprising that an aviation based issue is more important to us. I'm sure on any pension related forums (if there are such things) discussing Philip Green would run to hundreds of pages. I'm pretty sure T C-T wouldn't even get a mention.

wiggy 4th Nov 2016 11:11

rugmuncher

Many thanks for that info and link re the "Wings".....


Whatever emotional connection she feels she has with these wing, she should NOT be wearing them.
Absolutely agree.

Piltdown Man 4th Nov 2016 11:13

CG - I know what you mean and in abstract terms you are totally correct. What a waste of time. But the reason this thread continues to have a life is because we care. We care about the truth, we care about aviation and we care about the people in aviation. TC-T is using aviation to further her own agenda. She has allowed miss-information, weasley words and gross exaggeration to "big up" what is basically a fly-on-the-wall TV programme. But in the process, she has not done flying any favours. Man has spent years trying to make flying safer. And this stupid woman brags about flying at 50 feet (aka scud running), ignoring local rules and procedures, flying through flocks of birds and otherwise endangering herself and in certain instances, those on the ground. This is not how anybody should fly. Then this braggard had the gall to let us and the world believe it was solo - until of course...

If Philip Green was involved with flying and did something similar, we would be on his case as well. But this is a flying forum and not a pensions or corporate legal forum. If such things existed I would hope that there would be an even greater interest shown. There are tens of thousands and people worrying about what they will do for a pension and asking how he got a knighthood.

But the similarity is that both of these people have not been totally open and transparent with their past activities. Yet at the same time they have led us to believe they were better than they actually were, picking up awards in the process. We can't put the world right, but we can look after our own little bit. The bit that puts our dinners on the table, the bit that provides pleasure to many and the bit that portrays aviation to the rest of the UK and the world.

PM

charliegolf 4th Nov 2016 11:14


"What's really disturbing is that this Walt-ess woman has spawned enough vitriol to run to 129 pages in a thread! Sir Phillip Green stole half a billion pounds from hard working shop workers and only rated 3 pages".

I think that is because we can see that that specific situation is in hand and being adequately dealt with. Perhaps 10,000 pages worldwide.

On the other hand, here, the TCT debacle, we're just getting the two fingered salute and told that the show goes on.

See the difference now?
The difference (to use my example) is that one is actually important to the lives of ordinary people; whilst the other is, well not. One has made a difference, TCT, not so much.

CG

Piltdown Man: Point taken.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 4th Nov 2016 11:35

1 Attachment(s)
The manipulation of, or the manipulation by, the press can be traced back a long time.
Here is a good example of how an impression can be formed just by where an interview is filmed. To the uninitiated it may be taken that TCT owns a spitfire and flies a Provost. The back-drop may have been coincidental, it may have been deliberate. Why not conduct the full interview in front of her own aircraft? - It was there and gets a mention and very short screen presence later.

2:55 onwards.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J8XZYJIZ4U

mary meagher 4th Nov 2016 11:41

TCT has been supported silently by her co-pilot from the start. Doesn't say much for him or for her flying, that she fails to ensure her taxi path is clear before getting in the plane and crunching a helicopter. And only the sturdy build and slow speed of the biplane saved them BOTH in the desert crunch....
Furthermore, she boasts about dangerous low flying. Over palaces, whales, wild animals. Hardly the right message for ANY budding pilots.

I've stepped down now from solo flying. After 1,800 hours in gliders, and 1,200 in power, mostly towing up gliders or flying to visit grandkids in the US.
And a lot of flying gliders in competition, in single seat gliders. As an instructor, I flew with a lot of beginners; men are usually overconfident. Women are usually underconfident, and don't have a lot of money. But they make better pilots in my opinion. Less likely to take chances, and more careful with the craft. No shame in turning back, or saying no if things don't look good. TCT is not really running her show, I wonder who has the veto power?

Mike Flynn 4th Nov 2016 11:58

In reply to your post Above The Clouds the person best qualified to comment is Barry Tempest.


Is a Member of the Royal Aeronautical Society and the Historic Aircraft Association along with the British Aerobatic Association.
Has over 13,000 hours of flying experience in some 350 types and variants of light aircraft including over 8,000 hours instructing.
Started display flying in 1958 and has over 2,300 public airshow performances in the UK and many other countries including France, Germany and the USA.
Was a founder member of the Barnstormers Flying Circus in 1963 and, in 1971, flew with the famed Rothmans Aerobatic Team in Stampe biplanes.
Has won numerous aerobatic competitions and display awards in the UK.
His career in aviation included the role of Chief Flying Instructor at a number of UK Flying Schools, training commercial pilots and flying instructors, air taxi work throughout Europe plus ferrying aircraft to the Middle East. From 1984 to 1997, as a Flight Standards Officer in the UK Civil Aviation Authority, his responsibilities included the regulation and oversight of all civil Air Displays in the UK.
Was a Flying Instructor Examiner for some 28 years and is a CAA appointed Display Authorisation Evaluator covering a wide range of aircraft.

megan 4th Nov 2016 12:04

I don't know about the rules elsewhere, but it's perfectly legal to fly VFR above clouds in OZ. There are navigational requirements you need to meet though - visual fix at least every 30 minutes if memory is correct, and assurance of course that you can descend VMC to your destination.

robin 4th Nov 2016 12:09

... and there's definitely a helmeted figure in the fron seat who probably is qualified

Haraka 4th Nov 2016 12:21

Looking around in passing , it seems that the good lady's Website is "still in the water" post the self-pediatric blasting 25th October reference to the Times 24th October piece ( which originally includes 10 readers' comments :) )
Her several Facebook sites seem to have been systematically carpet bombed by various upset writers giving references to verbal and pictorial howlers that dissolve any remaining pretence she may imagine of any professional and moral credibility. Her Wicki page erodes away daily, providing a comprehensive " talk" section which tracks her ongoing descent into greater ridicule.
A diminishing number of breathless and hyperbolic outbursts on her various sites flap like landed fish, in turgid language very similar to that which her publicists invoke : "epic" "outstanding" " amazing" " flying high" "pioneering' " wonderful" "achievements" " "inspiring" " successful" " accomplished" " feats" " aviation skills" " endurance" " classic" etc.etc. ad nauseam . All in all I sense that the PR drum has been beaten into insensitivity and now the last resort will be of "heads below the parapet" in the expectation that " all this will blow over".

Looking at this site I feel that that will not happen all the time that honest people in the aviation domain feel a sense of anger of being seemingly involved by association in an act of cynical and monetary exploitation of our international heritage.
P.S. Just tried to sit through her Australian RAeS address and gave up after " Charles Lindbergh was the first to fly the Atlantic" and" y'know there were more women in Aviation then than there are now" .......

Mike Flynn 4th Nov 2016 12:38

I mentioned some weeks ago I had an email from her lawyers threatening legal action regarding my posts on here.

1. I am a barrister at Matrix Chambers specialising in media and information law, including the
law of internet-related harassment and data protection. I write to you on behalf of Tracey
Curtis-Taylor.
2. As you are aware, Ms Curtis-Taylor is an aviator and adventurer. In 2013 she flew nearly
10,000 miles in a 1942 open cockpit Boeing Stearman, the Spirit of Artemis, from Cape
Town to Goodwood. The flight was inspired by and in tribute to Lady Mary Heath, the first
person to fly solo from the Cape to the UK in 1928. In late 2015/early 2016 she flew from
the UK to Australia, inspired by Amy Johnson’s epic solo flight in 1930. Further information
is available on her website at www.birdinabiplane.com.
3. As a result of her flying endeavours, Ms Curtis-Taylor has received the Light Aircraft
Association’s Woodhams Trophy in November 2014, the Air League Framed Address in
May 2014 and 2016, and is to receive to the Honourable Company of Air Pilots Master’s
Medal later this year.
4. The purpose of this letter is:
a. to put you on notice of my client’s claims for misuse of private information,
harassment and breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 against you arising
principally from postings made by you under the pseudonym “Jay Sata” from about
April 2016 and continuing to date on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network
(“PPRuNe”) at www.pprune.org (although she also understands that you have made
similar statements elsewhere, including via email and to the media); and
b. to request that you take such steps as are necessary to remove the posts
complained of, to desist from harassing my client and to cease processing her
personal data with immediate effect.
In the event that you do not comply with the requests made in this letter, you will leave
my client no option but to consider legal proceedings against you in order to vindicate
her rights, including but not limited to seeking interim injunctive relief against you.
Matters complained of
5. As noted above, my client’s complaints arise principally from posts made by you under the
pseudonym Jay Sata on the PPRuNe forum, specifically at www.pprune.org/privateflying/
I replied stating I am a retired journalist and asking a couple of questions regarding her claims in the global media.

I have not heard a word from them but do have some further questions.These are points I will be raising if her lawyers wish to progress their threats.

As Tracey and Ewald are complaining of being so misunderstood, perhaps they could clarify and show some scans of the relevant pages of both their logbooks?

1. Was Ewald also logging the time, therefore legally there as an instructor (otherwise he wouldn’t be allowed to log time). Not solo, not even ‘sole’ – but dual. What did Tracey log?

2. If Ewald didn’t log the time at all, this ties in with the official line. What did Tracey then log? Hopefully not solo.

3. Perhaps Tracey logged P1, not solo – and Ewald logged nothing – this would be correct with regards to the story.

The Spirit of Artemis saga is now getting very complicated with HCAP describing Ewald as co-pilot and Ewald insisting he wasn’t.

Plus the Air League's Terry Holloway revealing his organisation and the Honourable Company Of Air Pilots
knew the UK to Sydney flights were just a reality tv show in the making and not a true solo emulation of Amy Johnson's epic flight.

On top of that we have yet to see evidence of any substance to her 'Outreach' programne.


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