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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

Jonzarno 6th Nov 2016 13:23

Did I miss anything relevant?

With the single exception of the apparent WIKI shennanigans mentioned in the post following yours, you have boiled 2600 odd posts down to one easily digestible and understandable statement of the allegations against Ms Curtis-Taylor and her team.

Congratulations! :ok:

Mike Flynn 6th Nov 2016 13:30

I have to agree with Jonzarno.

An excellent synopsis.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 6th Nov 2016 13:44

I agree with Jonzarno and Jay. That is an accurate summary of events Airpolice.
All that is required now is that those key points are dated to make a clear timeline of events, and a link to just one piece of evidence for each point is also posted.
Include the awards she has been given and when any were taken away.

This would form the basis of an e-mail to the sponsors, the papers and the award givers.
Just ask them to comment on the content and see what comes back.

I am drafting a letter separately to Portsmouth Uni. which will be with them tomorrow. [email protected] it would have been done sooner but I have been busy and I want to be 100% sure that the facts are correct.

On the BiaP website there is a contact page to arrange speaking engagements
Anyone know of a good central venue where she come come and talk to us?
I am thinking NEC B'Ham should be a good gig Trace, might be a tough crowd though.

Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker

noflynomore 6th Nov 2016 13:53

For Clarity.

Another plea for restraint please!

There were wails of "illegal VFR on top" at the lovely photo of the Spirit of Artifice flying over a sheet of cloud. We do ourselves no favours making such accusations when the ground is patently and clearly visible in the background... Even if VFR on top is illegal, which I didn't think it was (in UK) but on N reg who knows, though I doubt it. Even so, is IMC forbidden in a Stearman? I doubt that too.

Re low flying. If you're going to make accusations based on quoting the rules (mentioning no names) do try to get the definition right! It's persons, vessels, vehicles and structures, not objects.
And, bad taste as buzzing them may be, whales do not fall into any of those categories.

RAF wings. We see people who didn't earn them wearing far more emotive objects than mere wings on Remembrance Sunday with this rather weird new style of civvies parading an ancestor's medals. To me that is just bizarre and inappropriate as opposed to abhorrent.

Although I am not comfortable with her sporting them I don't think that a set of antique wings given by a supporter and worn on the collar is any better or worse than sporting Gt. Uncle Digby's gongs on the right hand side on Nov 11 is it?
If she had the gall to wear them on her left breast it would be altogether a different matter.

Jonzarno 6th Nov 2016 13:59

If she had the gall to wear them on her left breast it would be altogether a different matter
That's where she is wearing them in all the pictures of her in her blue flight suit.

noflynomore 6th Nov 2016 14:05

OH! Is she? I'd missed that.

In which case TOTALLY out of order and I thought a Criminal Offence to boot. That does need to be dealt with.

Mike Flynn 6th Nov 2016 14:19

The wiki page appears to change every day.

Here is part of the talk page...

Logged Stearman hours - not enough to cover her trips[edit]
In her testimony to the AAIB at the time of her Goodwood accident, Curtis-Taylor claimed "at least" 350 hrs on the Stearman. By the time of her Winslow accident the total claimed was 450. So, 100 more. On her website she claims the Australia trip was variously 14,600 miles or 13,000 miles. Then there is the US trip as far as the accident plus anything between the two expeditions. The Australia trip alone is a lot more than the Stearman could do in 100 hrs. It is unknown if she did not actually fly the entire route claimed or she has simply logged incorrect hours. However it does show that editors need to consider she is not a very reliable source when citing references that can be traced to her, and not give undue weight to her claims without independant verification. Beck daross (talk) 18:21, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Not sure what your trying to say here, but 'original research' does not belong in wikipedia. Also making suggestions that a person has broken rules that invite sanction might be considered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:19, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
This is the discussion page where we discuss things like how reliable sources are - including the subject. I think the point I made was pretty clear, Curtis-Taylor is not a reliable source because the Stearman hours that she has declared in her testimony to accident investigators, which she has signed off as a true and accurate record, are way short of those needed to fly the expeditions. Do you have anything to say to editors here that would help clear up that discrepency? Beck daross (talk) 23:19, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Mike Flynn 6th Nov 2016 14:29

RAF Brevet
I have solved the mystery of where her RAF wings came from.

Q: What are your pre-flight rituals?
I don’t have any. I just can’t wait to get in and go. With all the time it takes for airport clearance, I can’t wait to get into the air. One airport took seven hours to clear and I just lay on my bag in my seat and slept. I do wear a little globe around my neck. One of my closest friends, Dame Diana Rigg, gave it to me three years ago. It’s handmade and has ‘Africa’ and ‘Australia’ written on it, which is the Southern hemisphere. So that’s my good luck charm. An old friend from the Air Force also gave me his original RAF Wings that I pin to my flight suit.

As a footnote to the above here is some more info on the publishers of Jetgala Magazine.

Oriental Media Group is a full-service publishing and events group, based in both Singapore and Vietnam. We provide the international ultra-luxury and bespoke lifestyle industries with clearly focussed marketing, branding, advertising and exhibition platforms. Our fast expanding line-up of publications and events targets the top tier of the world's fastest-growing luxury market - the Asia Pacific region. Oriental Media Group is slated to grow exponentially in both size and strength, producing a variety of well-focussed and sharply targeted ultra-luxury titles, along with a line-up of luxury events. We understand and appreciate luxury - it is our only business.

The Old Fat One 6th Nov 2016 14:41


I concur in general, but let's not forget she is an honorary officer in the maritime reserve.


section 4 page 26.

For me this obligates her to operate and behave in a manner befitting a commissioned officer (I was one such and of equivalent RAF rank).

The wearing of unearned awards and publicly boasting about flying ill-discipline is utterly incompatible with her position. If she does not want to observe military standards she should resign her position and in any event, right about now the RN should be pulling their heads out their arses and finding out the truth of all of this.

And just to be clear...ad hoc/random flying a light a/c ultra low level over the open ocean is an act of monumental stupidity and and boasting about it unchallenged on national radio is something which IMO the CAA should have investigated by now.

noflynomore 6th Nov 2016 15:06

OFO, I entirely agree with your points re uniform and decorum and the action the RN should take.

As to flying ultra low level I'm not so sure. Out of gliding range of the coast if your donk stops you're going for a swim regardless and I don't see that the time interval between the two is really important. It might, on occasion, be unwise or inadvisable but I rather think "monumental stupidity" is over-egging the pudding a little.

The Old Fat One 6th Nov 2016 15:18

No thread drift, so I'll let it go after this, but for the benefit of any private flyers who like to go over the oggin.

You go in the open ocean (out of sight of land) untrained and unequipped you are pretty much odds on favorite to die. Ultra low level increases the hazard enormously (birds, waves, swell, reaction times to control your ditching, disorientation, time to restart the donk, out of radar cover etc etc).

Monumental stupidity is not over egging it one jot.

Qualification: Advanced Sea Survival Instructor, trained at RAF Mountbatten 1985, 5000 hours maritime, searched for many a light aircraft pilot, never found one.

Back to thread [I will not reply on this subject again...esp as I've said it all in the private flyers forum several times before]

Mike Flynn 6th Nov 2016 15:18

Trying to establish the truth about TCT is like knitting spaghetti.

Take this quote from AOPA suggesting she trained as a diplomat!

Raised in Canada, Curtis-Taylor has lived in England, where she trained as a diamond valuer and diplomat; in South Africa; and in New Zealand, where she learned to fly World War II airplanes with the New Zealand Warbird Association. She also has worked in aerial photography and mapping. She has as strong of an interest in antique cars as she does in airplanes.
Written by this man.

Alton K. Marsh

So is Alton making this up or has he been fed a press release?

Here are his qualifications...
AOPA Pilot Senior Editor, AOPA
AOPA Pilot Senior Editor Alton Marsh has been a pilot since 1970 and has an airline transport pilot certificate and instrument and multiengine flight instructor certificates, aerobatic training, and a commercial seaplane certificate.
source https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...d-to-australia


B Fraser 6th Nov 2016 15:22

An old friend from the Air Force also gave me his original RAF Wings that I pin to my flight suit.
Would I be correct in guessing that the old friend actually served in the army as a Major ? Does he hold an honorary RAF rank along with other honorary ranks including the Royal Naval Reserve ? There are no shortage of photos available on the web of the gentleman wearing RAF wings on his uniform.

Birds, feathers etc. etc.

Mike Flynn 6th Nov 2016 15:47

This man has a lot of appointments including the RAF and Royal Navy


Have the sponsors logo's changed?

I cannot see the RNRM charity logo.

Lind1795 6th Nov 2016 16:26

I wrote to the Vice Chancellor of Portsmouth University immediately after the LAA rescinded TCT's award. No reply form the university yet. Good luck.

Union Jack 6th Nov 2016 16:27

Birds, feathers etc. etc. - B Fraser

Which reminds me I made an earlier reference to "birds of a feather" at Post #799 in July, ie before we had fully realised the "provenance" of the RAF wings concerned, namely:

"Birds of a feather perhaps, observing that Prince Michael wears wings in both naval and army uniforms, despite having completed no formal flying training that I have seen recorded."

Of course there's always the possibility that he too was given his wings by old friends, one from each of the three Services.......:rolleyes:


Right Hand Thread 6th Nov 2016 16:34

Originally Posted by Lind1795
I wrote to the Vice Chancellor of Portsmouth University immediately after the LAA rescinded TCT's award. No reply form the university yet. Good luck.

I too wrote to Portsmouth University several months ago but was ignored.

BEagle 6th Nov 2016 16:38

Indeed, Union Jack! Unlike Prince Philip, Prince Charles, Prince Andrew, Prince William or Prince Harry....

Given that Prince Michael would have been 9 at the time of the death of King George VI, it is unlikely that any 'original' RAF flying badge would have born a king's crown either.

So it would have to have been a very 'old' friend who gave that woman his 'original' RAF flying badge....:confused:

Lind1795 6th Nov 2016 16:44

Right Hand Thread,

The university looks less than professional. Utterly disappointing. It amazed me that any university could award an honorary doctorate without having undertaken any decent research.

Cessnafly 6th Nov 2016 17:01

"It amazed me that any university could award an honorary doctorate without having undertaken any decent research".

Are you. Why? It's all nudge nudge wink wink at that level, isn't it.

Artemis/Boeing/The aviatrix have done some good business together, the misrepresentation/s has only assisted the cause.

I'm guessing that they all just wished that the plebs would shut-up as the show will be going on in any event.

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