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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 3rd Nov 2016 11:53

Although I know little of the licences and licence requirement, ownership and all the little nuances of EASA and FAA I have refrained from joining in the fascinating discussion.
May I ask that we try to bring the topic back to the main subject - ie the deception from day one. We stand our best chance of success if we stick to that and any other legalities can (and will) come out later. I wouldn't want to lose out on this simply because we have so much minor detail to sift through and miss out on something crucial.

As I have it so far -
TCT planned a fantastic venture but had no money to do it.
She convinced wealthy backers to finance the package based upon this whole idea of a SOLO bird flying the world in a beautiful aircraft unaided.
Sponsors jumped in fully believing the awesomeness of a SOLO expedition of this nature.
Awards and accolades plus a great deal of publicity ensued.
As time went on, and the press started to report the SOLO expedition, wise people started to question this claim.
TCT hit back and with claims that we got it wrong (by 'we' I include her sponsors in this) and went so far as to suggest that the negativity was down to an aggrieved former employee (an attempt in my eyes to deflect blame and also attract some sympathy)
The "I did not say it was SOLO" continued but more and more evidence has come to light - and is FACT - that she was promoting this as a SOLO flight.
So far only the LAA have taken positive action to right the wrongs, bearing in mind that their decision was made BEFORE the damning video came to light; imagine the outcome if that clip had been played just as TCT got up to address the congregation.

The aim now is to convince HCAP, Portsmouth Uni and the Royal Navy to strip this woman of the awards she has unjustifiably been granted, awards that could have been given to more deserving people. The only way that can be achieved is through a concerted effort to get concise and factual information to the media.
Artemis and BOEING need to come clean as to what they were told and if they would have supported this venture knowing what is known now ie it was never going to be SOLO; there is no shame in admitting you were taken in by her.

There is a way out of this for TCT - as she has no grounds to argue the FACTS and the information I am holding back on.

She needs to humbly hand back the awards, apologise for the confusion and accept that her over exuberance ran away with her. She can then start to build her credibility within the aviation world, show that she has a modicum of integrity and set the record straight. I know what I would do and the Press would be more inclined to avoid going for the jugular.


Stay focussed chaps and chapesses, there is light at the end of this tunnel.
Apologies if this is out of turn, I am not here to censure PPRUNE posters.

Jonzarno 3rd Nov 2016 12:27

SWB

An excellent and well-reasoned post; I agree entirely that we should keep focussed on the main issue. :D

The only thing I would say about your post is that, if you do have further relevant information, IMHO you should publish it so that people have the fullest possible basis for forming their opinions about this.

ShyTorque 3rd Nov 2016 13:13

SATCO's WB,

I don't believe that HCAP will ever ask for the return of award the Master (note: NOT the rank and file members) made. The wording of the citation did not include the word SOLO. From the outset, carrying out these self aggrandising jollies whilst wearing a non-entitled flying badge (sorry, expeditions) SOLO was not one of his requirements.

Cows getting bigger 3rd Nov 2016 13:23

Equally, the big corporates will just fade away. It isn't in their interests to perpetuate the story, in any direction.

Personally, I think the whole issue will transition into oblivion, with the final act being a bland/no-existent entry in Wiki. Of course, it would be very interesting to see what would happen if TCT raised her head for a third aviation adventure. ;)

off watch 3rd Nov 2016 13:38

Might there be some mileage in contacting "Private Eye" & see if Mr.Hislop & co. are interested in the story ?

Piltdown Man 3rd Nov 2016 13:44

I fear ShyTorque is correct. Many institutions like HCAP have management boards and committees that are totally remote from its members. In private they probably even dislike their memberships and wish they would go away, so they can get on and do important things; the things the err.... members voted them in to do. In this case, I'll wager they know they have cocked up and think not too many people will notice. After all, who are HCAP? I have been flying for close on 40 years and never heard of them until recently and I'm sure it doesn't want nasty scrotters like me amongst their ranks. Besides, if their decision to make this award looks them look bad in the future, they can say that based on what they knew as that time the award was valid. Unfortunately for them, we already know it devalues the efforts and achievements of the people who are worthy of such accolades and respect, as the Tim Peakes of the world.

As I type now I'm sure an 18 storey shrine is being erected in a village in Cambridge to house this award. It will have a large picture gallery, full of photographs featuring one important person shaking hands with other people, sombre music, videos of cheering crowds and huge portraits of well know aviatrix. In the basement will be dartboards with faces instead numbers and rings. I'm sure the targets will be Jay Sata, Sam Rutherford etc.

PM

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 3rd Nov 2016 14:01

Sadly I feel the previous four posters are going to be shown to be correct. If so then the message to youth of today is that you can get what you want by deception - be that deliberate or just a case of little white lies getting totally out of control.

hey-ho, we can but try.

Mike Flynn 3rd Nov 2016 14:15

There is an interesting letter in this months Pilot Magazine (Dec2016) from Terry Holloway, Vice Chairman of the Air League. Terry declares in his intro that he is Chairman of the Awards Committee.

I only have my copy of the magazine for reference so cannot print the entire text here.

However he makes the point that

From the outset we in the Air League knew it was not a solo flight and that point was clearly made when we made our award in May this year."

If the Air League knew the flight was not solo from day one why did they sit back and allow pretty much the entire UK media to print stories declaring TCT was embarking on a solo flight? Was that an honest approach?

Why did they not alert the press to the misleading headlines?

In my opinion they did nothing until the story started to break that the Spirit of Artefice expedition was nothing like Amy Johnsons historic flight.

Terry goes on to say.

I have no direct knowledge of the HCAP award but understand it is for similar reasons, and with the same knowledge about it being flown and,for good reasons,with a support aircraft,because a film documentary was being made"(sic)
A film documentary is reason to allow the deception in the worlds media Terry?

So the Honourable Company of Air Pilots also knew from the outset TCT was not flying solo from Farnborough to Sydney ?

What Terry does not reveal in his letter is he is also a Liveryman of The Honourable Company of Air Pilots.

Tracey Curtis Taylor is also a Liveryman of The Honourable Company of Air Pilots.

Does he know TCT on a personal level?

Of course he does.

Terry is employed on a part time basis by Marshall of Cambridge, a privately owned and family run Group of Companies employing around 4,500 and turning over around 1.5 Billion, where he is the Company Historian. From 1995 to 2014 he was employed as the Executive Assistant to the Chairman of the group of companies, where he was responsible for a wide ranging portfolio which included all Marketing, Media handling, and Public Relations, as well as the management of special projects across the Group of Companies. Terry remains the Managing Director of the Marshall owned Cambridge Aero Club- the oldest aero club in the UK - and is a qualified Flying Instructor.
Terence (Terry) Holloway - Profile

Robert Marshall was appointed chief executive officer of the Marshall Group in January 2012. Marshall is a fourth generation family company with annual sales of 900m. The Company owns and operates Cambridge Airport and has extensive activities in aerospace design, military aircraft maintenance, military ground systems and motor retail. The Company is based in Cambridge and employs 4,000 people. https://www.cambridgenetwork.co.uk/e...arshall-group/

Robert Marshall is a former director of Bird in a Biplane, Tracey Curtis Taylor's company.

https://www.endole.co.uk/company/077...iplane-limited


The Air League Annual Reception was held in the very prestigious surroundings of St James’s Palace on Thursday, 31st May hosted by His Royal Highness Prince Philip The Duke of Edinburgh, who is Patron of The Air League. Marshall of Cambridge is a very strong supporter of The Air League and a number of employees attended the Reception. Robert Marshall, Chief Executive Officer of Marshall of Cambridge (Holdings) Ltd and his partner Tracey Curtis-Taylor, together with Steve and Beverley Fitz-Gerald, were presented to Prince Philip at the beginning of the evening on the arrival of Prince Philip in the Throne Room at St James’s Palace.
see http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...hreads-55.html

Boeing is one of the biggest UK suppliers/ clients of the Marshall Group.

Boeing Aircraft Corporation is TCT's major sponsor alongside Artemis.

Boeing is a major supporter of the Air League.:ok:

zimbo565 3rd Nov 2016 14:34


Terry is employed on a part time basis by Marshall of Cambridge, a privately owned and family run Group of Companies employing around 4,500 and turning over around 1.5 Billion, where he is the Company Historian. From 1995 to 2014 he was employed as the Executive Assistant to the Chairman of the group of companies, where he was responsible for a wide ranging portfolio which included all Marketing, Media handling, and Public Relations, as well as the management of special projects across the Group of Companies. Terry remains the Managing Director of the Marshall owned Cambridge Aero Club- the oldest aero club in the UK - and is a qualified Flying Instructor.
I thought Lancashire Aero Club (established 1922) claimed to be the oldest flying club in the UK?

From Cambridge's website:

Cambridge Aero Club is one of the longest established flight training schools in the world. Based at Cambridge Airport, we've been training pilots since 1929.

9 lives 3rd Nov 2016 15:24


The aim now is to convince HCAP, Portsmouth Uni and the Royal Navy to strip this woman of the awards she has unjustifiably been granted, awards that could have been given to more deserving people.
This is an important theme, though with variation; for my limited understanding of the HCAP ('never heard of them before the TCT association) is a private organization, where the University and Royal Navy are obviously very public.

If the HCAP wants to issue an award, with a shifting purpose, in spite of all of the objective evidence that it is entirely without merit, only their own moral compass can guide them. In my opinion, they are massively discrediting themselves by doing this, as now their most memorable public presence in this time period is being caught up on the wrong side of a scandal, and steadfastly keeping themselves there - for what reason? It's the motivation within the HCAP to maintain this position which is so suspicious to me.

On the other hand, the University and the Navy are objectively required, on behalf of the public to do the honourable thing. I think that they need to be held to account.

With 425,000 views, and 2550 posts, with really none mounting any credible defense of TCT (unlike her FB page), it's obvious that aviation professionals are uniformly offended by TCT's deception. We aviation professionals, let alone being "the public" too, are entitled to have our dis satisfaction with the awards to TCT considered. The HCAP looses credibility with many of us, but maybe in their tight little circle of people, they really don't care - in which case they are not really in our aviation world anyway. The University and Navy objectively owe us (either as the aviation industry, and thus qualified observers, or simply very well informed public) a review of the award issuance, or a persuasive response as to why they would be content to allow the awards to remain.

As said, Boeing and Artemis look foolish, but will have no interest in being drawn into this. They made a poorly researched, uninformed investment in publicity, which backfired, they'll just walk away quietly - they did not issue any awards of grandeur on behalf of our industry. In that respect, they have nothing to undo....

Mike Flynn 3rd Nov 2016 15:29

Boeing and Artemis both have very expensive PR operations.

Despite all the publicity they have never answered any questions regarding the Spirit of Artemis.

HCAP and The Air League both knew TCT was not flying solo to Australia as Terry Holloway has confirmed via his letter to Pilot.

So there we have it...two very large sponsers conspiring to convince the worlds press via PR man Tim Kelly TCT was flying solo.

The Air League and the Honourable Company of Air Pilots are also complicit in this deception of the worlds media.

The latter wrote three citations to justify their recent award.

That alone must be a record?

robin 3rd Nov 2016 15:40


Robert Marshall is a former director of Bird in a Biplane, Tracey Curtis Taylor's company.
..and, according to earlier posts, TC-T's partner at some time.

No wonder she had access to some influential people in the aviation world

clareprop 3rd Nov 2016 15:51

With reference to Mr Holloway's quote:


From the outset we in the Air League knew it was not a solo flight and that point was clearly made when we made our award in May this year."
(my cap's)

I'm not sure that's completely correct. Below the full unabridged text from the press release regarding TCT...


...and Tracey Curtis- Taylor who flew a 1940s Boeing Stearman to Australia.
Press Release ? Annual Reception 3rd May 2016 ? The Air League

Stanwell 3rd Nov 2016 15:54

Quite so, Jay Sata.
It's interesting, though, that Boeing, with their expensive and extensive PR operation, were actively
banging the 'Solo Aviatrix' drum until only a matter of weeks ago.
Kinda makes you wonder, don't it?

Clare Prop 3rd Nov 2016 15:59

I've been following this quite closely, as a former Amy Johnson memorial scholarship winner I get a bit annoyed with this woman comparing herself to Amy. She doesn't come close. For a start Amy had to buy her aircraft and finish the flight before she got the prize money and had no sponsors' names splashed all over "Jason".

With the deception she has shown no respect to the true pioneers, male and female, who first flew these routes.

Personally I wouldn't trust her to taxi one of my aircraft, let alone fly it.

Pilot Tracey Curtis-Taylor bidding to emulate Amy Johnson hits a parked helicopter | Daily Mail Online

Mike Flynn 3rd Nov 2016 16:05

Pilot Magazine
 
As a postscript to Terry Holloway's letter in Pilot the editor Philip Whiteman wrote the following.

While I respect Terry Holloways's opinion, I would say that in this instance it is the Honourable Company of Air Pilots that has done itself a disservice through presenting what was once regarded as a prestigious award to a pilot who is - I can only agree- 'not in the same league as Sheila Scott and Polly Vacher' "
Here is the Air League press release for May 3 2016
Press Release ? Annual Reception 3rd May 2016 ? The Air League


Other awards were made to journalist Howard Wheeldon and also to two long distance pilots for remarkable and inspiring flights in 2015: Johan Wiklund who flew a 1930s de Havilland Moth to S Africa, and Tracey Curtis- Taylor who flew a 1940s Boeing Stearman to Australia.
Inspiring? Where has that word appeared before?

TCT's PR team love it along with 'outreach'.

PS I don't think Jay Sata will ever get an Air League journalist award:D

fwjc 3rd Nov 2016 16:43

Leicestershire Aero Club was formed in 1909. There is documentary evidence of this published at the time.

Anyway, the fact remains that TCT hasn't done herself, or women in aviation, any favours. It's a shame because on those occasions that I met her and spent time with her, she was good company. And the film is a fantastic film. I even own a copy of the DVD. But her disingenuous behaviour and her continued perpetration of untruths is unbecoming. It is an embarrassment that these awards are still allowed to stand. I have formerly been a member of the HCAP and this certainly has made me reconsider my plans to rejoin.

On another point made earlier about Barry Tempest - a grumpy old codger at times, and an incorrigible flirt at other times he may be, but the claims of misogyny and sexism are simply not true.

oggers 3rd Nov 2016 16:45

Noflynomore:


Working as a "Pilot". The author of the above is quite wrong in saying one cannot earn any revenue while flying as a PPL. One cannot earn money (ie be paid for one's services as...) as pilot with a PPL but Tracy was not, as far as we know, employed and paid as pilot. That she was paid anything is probably in doubt as she set up the expedition and the income was allegedly from a film documentary. Even if she did earn money from the trip she'd quite correctly say it was for being expedition leader. The fact that she flew during the trip has no bearing on the matter unless she specifically took money for doing so. It would be a different matter if her contract stated "Pilot" as her position within the team of course. Remember, you can fly the company's Bizjet (even a 747) on company business on a PPL as long as that isn't the major part of your job and you are genuinely employed as something else, eg Chaufferur or Office Cleaner, but not as pilot.
Well, it is not known if she was paid for the film. But you need to read the CFRs as she undertook these expeditions on an FAA licence. The key word limiting a private pilot to fly in connection with any business is "incidental". The flight has to be incidental to the business. As T C-T has set up a company around these flights, the subject of the film was the flight itself, and she actively pursued a film partner from the early stages of planning, there is a vanishingly small chance that the FAA would consider the film incidental. They are renowned for taking a very broad view of what incidental is not, eg a photographer not that long ago asked the FAA to clarify if he could later sell photos he took whilst flying and the answer came back 'no'.

If you're going to undertake these kind of flights it is easier to just get a commercial certificate than try and circumvent the CFRs or hope the FAA will agree with one's own interpretation of their rules. If you look at the various Americans who have undertaken flying expeditions they seem to all have a commercial ticket, or no overt sponsorship.

noflynomore 3rd Nov 2016 16:53

Dug up some good stuff here!

I have just started a thread on the Pacific, GA and Questions forum here http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...-walt-not.html which has produced some useful info.


From that thread I followed a link to the Wings Over NewZealand bulletin board and did a general search from 2005 to date looking for posts relating to TCT and there's some interesting stuff there you can follow up, including new stuff from the NZ Herald reporting a "solo" flight to Australia.

http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/24...rtis-taylor-nz


What's really interesting however is this fabulous interview from a podcast on Aviation Extended where she is being interviewed about the Cape Town - Goodwood flight. Note this was recorded before it happened and so only shows intent as opposed to reporting events afterwards but it amply demonstrates her free and repeated use of the word "Solo" and the clear intention that this was to be a solo enterprise albeit with chase plane.

http://aviation-xtended.co.uk/wp-con...o-goodwood.mp3


Highlights are at 25:00 "...I will be flying solo across Africa"
26:40 "I flew as an instructor there for several years" (in NZ. "several" years and only 300hrs? Hmmm)
29:40 Further reference by TCT to her forthcoming "solo" flight.
33:10 Importance of a large engine for hot and high t/o performance.
34:35 Emphasises difference to her previous AN2 flight which "had crew on board"
36:30 "Being on your own..."
39:10 Recreation of Mary Heath's flight (word recreation is critically important)
42:25 Producers chuckling at her intention to fly as low as possible

Fly-by-Wife 3rd Nov 2016 18:33

Interestingly, possibly one of the most accurate and least overblown biographies of TCT is on the LAA website, Meet the Members: http://www.lightaircraftassociation....tis-Taylor.pdf

It seems remarkably free of the hyperbole seen elsewhere, even though it was published in 2014, after the Capetown - UK flight. Perhaps she realised that the LAA and its membership would not be easily misled.

FBW


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