Judging The Flare
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Chuck,
Have now had time to read your posts properly, and I take back my last post. I think I had exactly the same misunderstanding as Flyin' Dutch, in that I thought you were suggesting that we should continue to look at the aiming point after the point where we have reduced the vertical speed to zero.
What I had trouble with after passing my skills test was the moment where your vision switches from the aiming point, to that point a few hundred feet ahead of you. I find (and maybe this changes as you gain far more experience than I have?) that the shift in vision needs to be very conscious and deliberate - at a time when you're naturally very busy anyway, it's easy to overlook this.
Anyway, thanks for a great post (if anyone is thinking of skipping over it because it's too long, don't - go and read it!) I always knew that you need to shift your vision forwards, but never really understood the science of it, or the exact amount. Between you and Flyin' Dutch, I've learnt yet another useful thing from PPRuNe!
FFF
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Have now had time to read your posts properly, and I take back my last post. I think I had exactly the same misunderstanding as Flyin' Dutch, in that I thought you were suggesting that we should continue to look at the aiming point after the point where we have reduced the vertical speed to zero.
What I had trouble with after passing my skills test was the moment where your vision switches from the aiming point, to that point a few hundred feet ahead of you. I find (and maybe this changes as you gain far more experience than I have?) that the shift in vision needs to be very conscious and deliberate - at a time when you're naturally very busy anyway, it's easy to overlook this.
Anyway, thanks for a great post (if anyone is thinking of skipping over it because it's too long, don't - go and read it!) I always knew that you need to shift your vision forwards, but never really understood the science of it, or the exact amount. Between you and Flyin' Dutch, I've learnt yet another useful thing from PPRuNe!
FFF
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F.F.F. :
Great, glad you are reading Pprune and we all get to share our ideas and experiences.
Now to make my life complete if only the flying schools ensured their instructors do in fact understand the science of flying I would have no need to wear out my fingers on this computer trying to explain how to fly...I can think of better use of my fingers..Heh Heh HEh...
Finally ....the real secret to top quality instruction is not only knowing how to do it but how to instill confidence in your student.....
This confidence will only come when the student suddenly discovers just how simple all this really is.... by demonstrating to her / himself that, hey I can really do this....
Now, I am also a marriage councellor and love expert, anyone having problems in that area???
Cat Driver:
Great, glad you are reading Pprune and we all get to share our ideas and experiences.
Now to make my life complete if only the flying schools ensured their instructors do in fact understand the science of flying I would have no need to wear out my fingers on this computer trying to explain how to fly...I can think of better use of my fingers..Heh Heh HEh...
Finally ....the real secret to top quality instruction is not only knowing how to do it but how to instill confidence in your student.....
This confidence will only come when the student suddenly discovers just how simple all this really is.... by demonstrating to her / himself that, hey I can really do this....
Now, I am also a marriage councellor and love expert, anyone having problems in that area???
Cat Driver:
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Chuck / FFF - as usual, what we have come to expect: quality posts, not always saying the same thing the same way, but educating the Forum and provoking contemplation in the mind of the reader. Well done to the pair of you!
On a lighter note, from today's AvBrief:
Student pilot to irate instructor:
"You're simply impossible to satisfy. I just finished navigating successfully through a boiling fluid swirling around a rotating sphere that is hurtling around a fusion reaction source at thousands of miles per hour. This system is moving in a circular motion around a black hole at who knows what speed, while the space it takes up is expanding. And then I bounced the landing six inches. SIX MEASLY INCHES! Get off my freakin' back!"
On a lighter note, from today's AvBrief:
Student pilot to irate instructor:
"You're simply impossible to satisfy. I just finished navigating successfully through a boiling fluid swirling around a rotating sphere that is hurtling around a fusion reaction source at thousands of miles per hour. This system is moving in a circular motion around a black hole at who knows what speed, while the space it takes up is expanding. And then I bounced the landing six inches. SIX MEASLY INCHES! Get off my freakin' back!"
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Chuck et al.
Guys, thanks very much for all the comments - I'm looking forward to next Thursday when I get to try and bring them all together and get the PA38 on the ground smoothly and in the way that I had expected. I guess experience will really be the key in giving me the tools to recognise where I'm going right, and wrong. There's a huge learning curve between basic flying and the circuits - with everything now happening a lot faster - 300ft checks, climbing turns, radio calls, in-flights checks, BUMPFHC check then flying a measured base and final. I've only done two lessons of circuits - four on the first, three on the second, and I seem to be just adding something each time - so now I've got it done to flying the circuit fairly well and a smooth approach to get my over the threshold within the correct parameters.
I guess next stage now is taking on board the great tips from this thread, working them into the mix and trying to get that final part right. I did it twice the last time out successfully but if I was honest I'd say that was more luck that good technique. I'm training at a relatively quiet commercial airport which has those lights on either side of the flare point - in the early stages of trying to get the 'final' right it helps, but I think it may be a bad thing in the long run as I really need to learn to gauge it correctly myself rather than waiting for red lights to change colour!!!
Finally, I'm sure it's been said before but this is one amazing web-site for this kind of information. There have been loads of times when I've returned from my lesson, so excited that I forget to ask my instructor some question that I'd planned to - get on-line, check out pprune and there's my answer. Great stuff - but only because you experience guys take the time to help out raw amateurs such as myself. Thanks!!!
...just noticed that in my last post I mentioned that I'm doing my training in a PA38. Don't know what that is, but I'm pretty sure it's something a lot more difficult than the PA28 that I am actually learning to fly in!!!
- Doh!!
I guess next stage now is taking on board the great tips from this thread, working them into the mix and trying to get that final part right. I did it twice the last time out successfully but if I was honest I'd say that was more luck that good technique. I'm training at a relatively quiet commercial airport which has those lights on either side of the flare point - in the early stages of trying to get the 'final' right it helps, but I think it may be a bad thing in the long run as I really need to learn to gauge it correctly myself rather than waiting for red lights to change colour!!!
Finally, I'm sure it's been said before but this is one amazing web-site for this kind of information. There have been loads of times when I've returned from my lesson, so excited that I forget to ask my instructor some question that I'd planned to - get on-line, check out pprune and there's my answer. Great stuff - but only because you experience guys take the time to help out raw amateurs such as myself. Thanks!!!
...just noticed that in my last post I mentioned that I'm doing my training in a PA38. Don't know what that is, but I'm pretty sure it's something a lot more difficult than the PA28 that I am actually learning to fly in!!!
- Doh!!
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My instructor used a great technique with me. He put £50 (or equivalent) in his pocket and told me that if I crossed the threshold in good shape he would tell me. Once that happened, with power at 'idle', approx 10 feet above the ground, I would be able to keep the £50 if I could stay off the ground and crash into the field at the end of the runway. Try as I might, I could not do it, but I really got the hang of that 'straight and level' stuff. It's just that I did it in the 'wrong place', sank really slowly and eventually landed.
Thankfully it wasn't a £50 bet, or I would have been skint after a couple of circuits!
Thankfully it wasn't a £50 bet, or I would have been skint after a couple of circuits!
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Hi aidanf
Just like others said, it really does come right with practice. For the PA28 I fly, I rather liked my instructor's suggestion when I was doing my night training that you should round out when the runway lights seem to be at shoulder height.
Don't know if that applies to the daytime though: others will be better qualified than me to know whether it works in the daytime.
The other thing that helped me, being a text book sort of person, was Alan Bramson's "Make better Landings." I fear it's out of print, but abebooks (search for Bramson, Alan and the title) currently has a number of them.
Have fun Thursday.
Just like others said, it really does come right with practice. For the PA28 I fly, I rather liked my instructor's suggestion when I was doing my night training that you should round out when the runway lights seem to be at shoulder height.
Don't know if that applies to the daytime though: others will be better qualified than me to know whether it works in the daytime.
The other thing that helped me, being a text book sort of person, was Alan Bramson's "Make better Landings." I fear it's out of print, but abebooks (search for Bramson, Alan and the title) currently has a number of them.
Have fun Thursday.
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AidanF
This subject comes up every few months and the person who starts it normally reports back a few months later that they have passed their skills test.
So (1) you are not alone and (2) you will get your licence too if you persevere.
Best of luck and make sure that you let us know the good news when it happens.
F3G
This subject comes up every few months and the person who starts it normally reports back a few months later that they have passed their skills test.
So (1) you are not alone and (2) you will get your licence too if you persevere.
Best of luck and make sure that you let us know the good news when it happens.
F3G
Flies for fun
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Landings were difficult for me too. The method which works for me is to look at the spot (the numbers if on a hard runway) where I intend to land and if that spot moves up the canopy then I need a tad more power, if it moves down, a tad less. I keep looking at that same spot using rudder as necessary to keep that spot in the centre of the canopy. I still use the same spot to adjust my descent until round out and then at round out, (when I have just lost sight of my landing spot) I transfer my vision to the end of the runway and use my peripheral vision to keep the airplane level and just hold the airplane at the same height (in the flare) pulling the stick/yoke back until the airplane stalls.
Things that I found were essential (to me) for a smooth landing were in order of importance 1. proper use of pitch, power and trim so that the descent was smooth down to the threshold. (Borrow a handbook for the airplane you are flying and study the recommended power and speed settings for approach). 2. relaxed use of the yoke, that means just two or three fingers of one hand only. If you need more than two fingers to control the airplane then you haven't trimmed it out properly! 3 Don't fixate on any one outside reference when in the round out, peripheral vision is essential both to the left and right to check that the airplane is level, that it is neither ascending or descending during the flare. 4. Hold the airplane off the ground by gradually increasing back pressure on the yoke to maintain the same altitude in the round out to hold the airplane off the runway, don't even think about pushing the stick/yoke forward to get the airplane onto the ground more quickly because that will undoubtedly result in a lot of tyre smoke and possible a bounce or even worse, a balloon and collapsed nose gear! 5. Proper seating position, if you are too low in the seat then you will lose vision over the nose too quickly and that just makes it more difficult to judge the round out height and attitude in the flare.
Many pilots who make bad landings are really making a good landing near impossible because of a bad approach. If the approach isn't good and smooth then the landing definitely won't be (except for an experienced pilot ie the instructor taking over to save the airplane!) I deliberately haven't mentioned xwind landings to save confusion and you won't be doing these yet. Good luck! Experience is like old age, it comes to us all in the end!
Things that I found were essential (to me) for a smooth landing were in order of importance 1. proper use of pitch, power and trim so that the descent was smooth down to the threshold. (Borrow a handbook for the airplane you are flying and study the recommended power and speed settings for approach). 2. relaxed use of the yoke, that means just two or three fingers of one hand only. If you need more than two fingers to control the airplane then you haven't trimmed it out properly! 3 Don't fixate on any one outside reference when in the round out, peripheral vision is essential both to the left and right to check that the airplane is level, that it is neither ascending or descending during the flare. 4. Hold the airplane off the ground by gradually increasing back pressure on the yoke to maintain the same altitude in the round out to hold the airplane off the runway, don't even think about pushing the stick/yoke forward to get the airplane onto the ground more quickly because that will undoubtedly result in a lot of tyre smoke and possible a bounce or even worse, a balloon and collapsed nose gear! 5. Proper seating position, if you are too low in the seat then you will lose vision over the nose too quickly and that just makes it more difficult to judge the round out height and attitude in the flare.
Many pilots who make bad landings are really making a good landing near impossible because of a bad approach. If the approach isn't good and smooth then the landing definitely won't be (except for an experienced pilot ie the instructor taking over to save the airplane!) I deliberately haven't mentioned xwind landings to save confusion and you won't be doing these yet. Good luck! Experience is like old age, it comes to us all in the end!
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I agree with Chuck.
Keeping your eyes fixed on the end of the runway is absolute bilge. First off, as you progress to 'real' aircraft you will find that the view ahead reduces to nil in the flare (often the whole approach). Secondly, how can you gauge your height from looking at a point that may be 3000ft ahead of you? What if you land on a runway much shorter or longer.. won't the picture look wrong leading to errors?
It always amazes me how little you need to see to gauge the flare height. Your brain is very good from picking up little clues from whatever view out you have. Don't over analyse just DO IT .
A couple of points that helped me whilst training were:
1. Forget the ASI once in the flare - really, the 'numbers' part of the flight is over at this point it’s all about feel from here in.
2. As an instructor once said to me 'Never rush the last two seconds of any flight' - good advice!
Kingy
Keeping your eyes fixed on the end of the runway is absolute bilge. First off, as you progress to 'real' aircraft you will find that the view ahead reduces to nil in the flare (often the whole approach). Secondly, how can you gauge your height from looking at a point that may be 3000ft ahead of you? What if you land on a runway much shorter or longer.. won't the picture look wrong leading to errors?
It always amazes me how little you need to see to gauge the flare height. Your brain is very good from picking up little clues from whatever view out you have. Don't over analyse just DO IT .
A couple of points that helped me whilst training were:
1. Forget the ASI once in the flare - really, the 'numbers' part of the flight is over at this point it’s all about feel from here in.
2. As an instructor once said to me 'Never rush the last two seconds of any flight' - good advice!
Kingy
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Chuck said
Any instructor who teaches you to look at the far end of the runway does not understand the correct method to judge height and or distance during the most critical part of the approach and landing.
Two responses to this;
1. Surely looking as far ahead as possible is the best way to judge rate of descent - nothing else?
2. Aiming at the landing point becomes a challenge in something like a Super Cub when most of the landing area disappears in the flare.
Paul.
Any instructor who teaches you to look at the far end of the runway does not understand the correct method to judge height and or distance during the most critical part of the approach and landing.
Two responses to this;
1. Surely looking as far ahead as possible is the best way to judge rate of descent - nothing else?
2. Aiming at the landing point becomes a challenge in something like a Super Cub when most of the landing area disappears in the flare.
Paul.
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Barnside:
Looking as far ahead as possible will only make judging the proper hold off height ( 1 foot ) more difficult.
I repeat any instructor who teaches you to look at the far end of the runway for height judgement during the hold off portion of the landing does not understand the subject, taking that advise will only insure you will remain as inept as your instructor.
Would you please go back in this thread and read all my comments and advice on this subject.
If after reading the all the advice I have given here you are still not quite sure what I am describing please post back here and I will try and further explain it.
Cat Driver:
Looking as far ahead as possible will only make judging the proper hold off height ( 1 foot ) more difficult.
I repeat any instructor who teaches you to look at the far end of the runway for height judgement during the hold off portion of the landing does not understand the subject, taking that advise will only insure you will remain as inept as your instructor.
Would you please go back in this thread and read all my comments and advice on this subject.
If after reading the all the advice I have given here you are still not quite sure what I am describing please post back here and I will try and further explain it.
Cat Driver:
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AidanF
I have recently gone solo in a PA-38 and know how you feel.
I did about 5 lessons in the circuit (3 hours maybe) before being let loose. I too found the approach easy but knowing when to switch from the aim-point to the flare view (whichever method you use) quite difficult. My instructor said that the best way is to wait until the aimpoint disappears under the nose and then look down the end of the runway. Initially I found that hard to do, and tended to look down the side to the ground near me. Eventually I made myself do as he had suggested (look away over the nose to the end of the runway) and it worked. The lesson after that I was on my own! I`ve done about an hour and half solo now and whilst my landings are far from pretty, I can consistently land the Tomy without too much trouble.
keep at it, I soloed about 2 weeks ago and the grin has still not quite worn off! It will suddenly click and you will think "I know how to do it..."
Good luck
Lungs
I have recently gone solo in a PA-38 and know how you feel.
I did about 5 lessons in the circuit (3 hours maybe) before being let loose. I too found the approach easy but knowing when to switch from the aim-point to the flare view (whichever method you use) quite difficult. My instructor said that the best way is to wait until the aimpoint disappears under the nose and then look down the end of the runway. Initially I found that hard to do, and tended to look down the side to the ground near me. Eventually I made myself do as he had suggested (look away over the nose to the end of the runway) and it worked. The lesson after that I was on my own! I`ve done about an hour and half solo now and whilst my landings are far from pretty, I can consistently land the Tomy without too much trouble.
keep at it, I soloed about 2 weeks ago and the grin has still not quite worn off! It will suddenly click and you will think "I know how to do it..."
Good luck
Lungs
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The thing that really stuck for me when I was first getting my licence was to flare 'when you feel the runway come up round your ears'. In other words, when it no longer looks flat from above, but has a feeling of enveloping the aircraft.
Works for me mostly, although flying almost exclusively out of small, narrow, short grass strips I now have a lot more trouble pulling off a decent landing on acres of concrete (ugh, revolting stuff!).
Anyway, ignore what I say and listen to Chuck because I am, and let's be honest about this, a low-time ignoramus with an unwarrantably large mouth.
QDM
Works for me mostly, although flying almost exclusively out of small, narrow, short grass strips I now have a lot more trouble pulling off a decent landing on acres of concrete (ugh, revolting stuff!).
Anyway, ignore what I say and listen to Chuck because I am, and let's be honest about this, a low-time ignoramus with an unwarrantably large mouth.
QDM
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QDM:
There is only one " SURE " " SAFE " method to learn the flare height point visual clues and that is with a competant instructor who will demonstrate the manouver over and over until the visual picture is imprinted in your memory bank.
Trying to explain the visual impression that the mind retains will vary from person to person.
However once the student learns the clues by repetitive lessons the picture for that person is printed in the brain.
As I have previously stated I use a camcorder and we replay the lessons after the flight. The beauty of this is the ability to freeze the picture and discuss exactly what the student was "seeing" and what the mind was "Visualizing " at that precise moment in time. There is quite a signifigant difference between what the eyes see and the mind visualizes.
Lets think a moment about where an airshow pilot is looking during a ribbon cut pass.
From the decending approach the airplane is flared to parallel the runway and then rolled to the inverted position once the flare to level flight is finished the ribbon is now kept in sight as the target. From that point to the cut you can bet your ass the pilot is using the ribbon as the target aim point and height judgement will be judged by pereferial vision.
The reason that I use this very unusual example is only to point out that to judge where any target is we look at the target.
Landing an airplane is no different, to judge how close you are to your target ( The flare point ) you keep the intended point as the center of focus.
Naturally once flared we look ahead to a point where we can see our height change as we lose speed and lift to just prior to runway contact and at that height "about one foot" we stop the airplane from losing any further height and it will finally quit flying and land. Looking into the distance such as the far end of the runway is not the way to judge height during the latter part of the landing, about five hundred feet ahead is where to look.
Now I have probably really fu.... it all up by using the ribbon pick up as an analogy for landing............ hopefully everyone will get the point I was trying to explain....you cannot judge height looking into infinity.
Jeeesus I may have really muddied the water this time.
If there is confusion with the ribbon pick up explination let me know and I will edit it.
Cat Driver:
There is only one " SURE " " SAFE " method to learn the flare height point visual clues and that is with a competant instructor who will demonstrate the manouver over and over until the visual picture is imprinted in your memory bank.
Trying to explain the visual impression that the mind retains will vary from person to person.
However once the student learns the clues by repetitive lessons the picture for that person is printed in the brain.
As I have previously stated I use a camcorder and we replay the lessons after the flight. The beauty of this is the ability to freeze the picture and discuss exactly what the student was "seeing" and what the mind was "Visualizing " at that precise moment in time. There is quite a signifigant difference between what the eyes see and the mind visualizes.
Lets think a moment about where an airshow pilot is looking during a ribbon cut pass.
From the decending approach the airplane is flared to parallel the runway and then rolled to the inverted position once the flare to level flight is finished the ribbon is now kept in sight as the target. From that point to the cut you can bet your ass the pilot is using the ribbon as the target aim point and height judgement will be judged by pereferial vision.
The reason that I use this very unusual example is only to point out that to judge where any target is we look at the target.
Landing an airplane is no different, to judge how close you are to your target ( The flare point ) you keep the intended point as the center of focus.
Naturally once flared we look ahead to a point where we can see our height change as we lose speed and lift to just prior to runway contact and at that height "about one foot" we stop the airplane from losing any further height and it will finally quit flying and land. Looking into the distance such as the far end of the runway is not the way to judge height during the latter part of the landing, about five hundred feet ahead is where to look.
Now I have probably really fu.... it all up by using the ribbon pick up as an analogy for landing............ hopefully everyone will get the point I was trying to explain....you cannot judge height looking into infinity.
Jeeesus I may have really muddied the water this time.
If there is confusion with the ribbon pick up explination let me know and I will edit it.
Cat Driver:
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Wow this thing just keeps on going. I originally posted this thread waaaayy before Christmas when I'd come back from doing my second circuit detail and some questionable landings (including one where my brain died and my left foot decided to do what it always does to slow mechanical things down - the resultant strong a/c turn to the left was greeted by a friendly 'that'll kill ya' from my instructor!!) I haven't been up since - nothing to do with the weather as my time slot seems to be impervious to all weather systems (guarantee you that whatever the conditions in the morning the clouds will part, the rain will stop and the wind will drop 15-20 minutes before I'm due skybound!!) This only makes it all the more frustrating for me as I had a client go bang soon after originally posting this thread which ensured I had a really super Christmas and no funds for flying
However I'm now just over a week away from getting back in the saddle and my thread re-appears!!! Couple this with the amazing weather conditions my slot consistently gets and I'm beginning to think that someone is trying to tell me something. No doubt I'll go and ****** it all up again, but guys, I really appreciate the support and advice this forum offers us aspirers. Thanks
However I'm now just over a week away from getting back in the saddle and my thread re-appears!!! Couple this with the amazing weather conditions my slot consistently gets and I'm beginning to think that someone is trying to tell me something. No doubt I'll go and ****** it all up again, but guys, I really appreciate the support and advice this forum offers us aspirers. Thanks
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Aidan,
only seen my method posted one other time ergo must be wrong!!!!????!!!!
As taught.....on the approach try to maintain the location of the aiming point in the canopy
as the aim point is approached transfer the focus to the end of the runway using your peripheral vision to guage the rate of descent in the final stages....
This is the only way I found which actually works
only seen my method posted one other time ergo must be wrong!!!!????!!!!
As taught.....on the approach try to maintain the location of the aiming point in the canopy
as the aim point is approached transfer the focus to the end of the runway using your peripheral vision to guage the rate of descent in the final stages....
This is the only way I found which actually works
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Feet Dry:
I am sure you "think" that the method you describe works for you.
However whoever taught you that method has ensured you will never be capable of accurate height judgement.
I find it really sad, that after all the years we have been flying airplanes flight instruction has degenerated to such an abysmal low.
Cat Driver:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
I am sure you "think" that the method you describe works for you.
However whoever taught you that method has ensured you will never be capable of accurate height judgement.
I find it really sad, that after all the years we have been flying airplanes flight instruction has degenerated to such an abysmal low.
Cat Driver:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Aidanf, fascinating post. I too had simillar problems prior to my solo, and PPRuNe replies were most helpful.
I'm still not quite sure about the exact science involved in making an accurate safe landing, but here are a few of my observations:
1) Well trimmed accurate approach certainly lightens the workload prior to landing.
2) The more circuits I completed, the worse my performance. With hindsight, I guess the release of "fight or flight" hormones after just turning onto finals wasn't helping. T think this may have been cocking up my peripheral vision, (and hence cocking up my height judgement), when it was needed most. (Over the numbers). In this respect, "looking at the far boundary" certainly helped me, although I find I rely on this less and less now.
Interestingly, I find my performance improves when I am not accompanied by instructor or examiner. (Or is this my perception?).
Anyway keep at it. Remember those hill starts/three point turns/emergency stops when learning to drive ? Second nature now.
I think my posting on the subject was around Feb 2002.
I'm still not quite sure about the exact science involved in making an accurate safe landing, but here are a few of my observations:
1) Well trimmed accurate approach certainly lightens the workload prior to landing.
2) The more circuits I completed, the worse my performance. With hindsight, I guess the release of "fight or flight" hormones after just turning onto finals wasn't helping. T think this may have been cocking up my peripheral vision, (and hence cocking up my height judgement), when it was needed most. (Over the numbers). In this respect, "looking at the far boundary" certainly helped me, although I find I rely on this less and less now.
Interestingly, I find my performance improves when I am not accompanied by instructor or examiner. (Or is this my perception?).
Anyway keep at it. Remember those hill starts/three point turns/emergency stops when learning to drive ? Second nature now.
I think my posting on the subject was around Feb 2002.
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feet dry:
Hi:
I do not think that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Flying is a predictible and measurable exercise, there are correct and incorrect methods of accomplishing each and every exercise invloved in properly and safely learning to fly an airplane.
Well actually I do think I am right with regard to the most reliable method of judging flare height ( the subject of this thread ) and the most reliable method of judging height above the runway to complete the landing in the most professional way.
You will find that many instructors will agree with my method so I am not alone in my method of teaching.
To answer your question.
Total time?
Somewhere around thirty thousand hours,( all accident free ) I have sort of lost track of the exact figure..
Types?
Fixed wing.......Mooney Mite to Airbus A320
Helicopters..... R22 to Sikorsky S61
Gyroplanes...( I hold a USA Commercial Gyrplane license ) Mc J2 and several experimental types...
But for the purpose of this discussion I am an advanced flight instructor that started advanced flight training over forty years ago teaching high command control flying, training Agricultural pilots. To day my business is advanced flight training, I work world wide and all my customers are by refeeral only. Therefore they seem to believe in my methods.
For the sake of interest and to allow me to compare our thoughts on this subject what is your TT , types and so on...?
Oh by the way I will be back in London in a couple of months, if your instructor would like some dual I could maybe make the time to re train him / her. I charge a minimum of USD $300.00 per day.
Cat Driver:
Hi:
I do not think that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Flying is a predictible and measurable exercise, there are correct and incorrect methods of accomplishing each and every exercise invloved in properly and safely learning to fly an airplane.
Well actually I do think I am right with regard to the most reliable method of judging flare height ( the subject of this thread ) and the most reliable method of judging height above the runway to complete the landing in the most professional way.
You will find that many instructors will agree with my method so I am not alone in my method of teaching.
To answer your question.
Total time?
Somewhere around thirty thousand hours,( all accident free ) I have sort of lost track of the exact figure..
Types?
Fixed wing.......Mooney Mite to Airbus A320
Helicopters..... R22 to Sikorsky S61
Gyroplanes...( I hold a USA Commercial Gyrplane license ) Mc J2 and several experimental types...
But for the purpose of this discussion I am an advanced flight instructor that started advanced flight training over forty years ago teaching high command control flying, training Agricultural pilots. To day my business is advanced flight training, I work world wide and all my customers are by refeeral only. Therefore they seem to believe in my methods.
For the sake of interest and to allow me to compare our thoughts on this subject what is your TT , types and so on...?
Oh by the way I will be back in London in a couple of months, if your instructor would like some dual I could maybe make the time to re train him / her. I charge a minimum of USD $300.00 per day.
Cat Driver: