Acquiring PPL in Canada or USA

[Piqueteer]

Hi all,

I'm hoping you can assist me as I'm completely green around acquiring a PPL other than the research I've done online.
Background: I'm a UK resident, I have 5 weeks off work next year and I'm looking to do my PPL in USA or Canada to get the licence in an accelerated manner. I'm not as interested in the European schools as I have some family in USA who I would be looking to see before going home.

From my research I've probably got more confused which is why I'm asking the question here, and some of the threads on PPRuNe have answered my questions but some have convoluted things so any help is greatly appreciated.

USA:

• Had contacts from 3-4 schools in Florida very promptly and they have good reviews. Very swish marketing and operation by first impressions.
• Will acquire FAA PPL and therefore will have to convert it to an EASA PPL on return
  • I am working on the assumption that I can fly N-REG planes in UK on my return, get the 100 hours needed and then pass the relevant theory laws. Please confirm that is correct as everyone seems to have a different opinion!
  • Based on the below: If you hold an ICAO-compliant private pilot licence issued outside Europe, you can convert it to a European PPL. In order to do this, you will need to pass theory exams on air law and human performance as well as a skill test. Additionally, you need to have at least 100 hours as a pilot in the relevant aircraft category, hold a European medical certificate and have demonstrated language proficiency in the language to be used for radio communication.
• Weather in June / July in Florida seems to be okay (less so in July) based on the schools input but can anyone confirm this based on experience?

Canada:

• Contacted 7 schools in Canada and no responses yet after 3 weeks but give fairness that it was the Christmas Break.
• Will get a CAR PPL - presume this works the same as the above so can rake up more hours on return.
• Weather conditions presumably not as suitable as in USA but aiming to be in Toronto, any ideas on this? Based on research looks okay but USA is stronger contender on that front.

I know theres a few questions here but I'm looking more for affirmation around the conversion than anything else. Plus any first hand experience, old hand advice is very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance

[rudestuff]

FAA sounds like a sensible plan. The good news is you do NOT have to convert to EASA. The UK CAA will give you a validation for about £45. No exams, no flight test. No need to get a night rating.

If you only want to fly for fun, that's all you need to do. If you want to fly commercially, then an FAA PPL is the perfect base to start from.

[RatherBeFlying]

There are a number of flight schools in the Greater Toronto Area aka GTA, but I moved away 8 years ago and any recommendations I'd make would be out of date. Many are outside the Class C Toronto terminal area; so the question is just where in the GTA you might be. With the traffic you do not want to be driving across Toronto to your chosen flight school. Try Avcanada.ca Flight Training​

[custardpsc]

whilst you can fly N reg you won't find any for hire easily in the UK. Your goal is PPL only, for fun, right? Part of the fun is the adventure of learning to fly in different places. Don't get hung up on conversion,. also nothing to stop you doing a bit of both overseas and UK training. The USA has better weather but you'll either have to jump the difficult visa hoops/risk money on paying upfront for an I-20 / full time course or accept that you'll have to fly only whilst demonstrably on vacation. Go to Canada instead, much easier. No visa stress, plenty of flying, mixed weather , uk type weather so you learn good weather sense for when you return.. And you can pay as you go at your own pace. The Canadian PPL is thorough and well regarded.

[selfin]

If you intend to pursue a Canadian licence then organise a medical examination at least 8 weeks in advance of commencing training. If the exam is done in UK then you could arrange for a Part-MED exam to be conducted simultaneously. See database of Canadian examiners (link). Transport also maintains a searchable database of flight training units (link). Canada does not require foreign nationals undertaking flying training to undergo a security threat assessment. Foreign nationals do not require a study permit when pursuing courses of 6 or fewer months in length. Section 188 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations refers (link). Canadian licences and ratings may be converted to US equivalents under the terms of a bilateral aviation safety agreement. See the implementation procedures (link) or advisory circulars published by Transport and FAA (link). A TSA security threat assessment will be conducted in the background but you do not need to apply for it.

To fly a UK-registered Part-21 aircraft or, as a UK resident any non-UK-registered aircraft in a non-commercial operation, in UK on and after exit day an appropriate licence granted converted or validated under the Aircrew Regulation will be required. Under UK General Exemption E 4863, ORS4 no. 1301 of 29 Mar 2019 (link), a US airman certificate may be used as rudestuff has mentioned. No equivalent exemption exists for Canadian licences. See licence map applicable on exit day (pdf link). That map takes account of amendments intended to be made to the UK Air Navigation Order by the Aviation Safety (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 effective on exit day (link).

[B2N2]

Second vote for Canada.
June/July Florida is hotter then hell ( I live there)
Depending on your airplane the climb rate varies from miserable to are-we-there-yet.
Also the visa/TSA thing has become a pain in the rear.
If you insist on FAA then convert Canadian > FAA > ......Brexit CAA

[Piqueteer]

Thanks all for that information!
This is great and probably I'll head to Canada by the look of it.
Selfin special thanks for the time you put into your post.

Happy New Year all!

[selfin]

It will take a motivated Canadian school to cover all training within 5 weeks. Should you contemplate converting a Canadian licence to an FAA equivalent, in order to accumulate sufficient flying experience in UK to pursue conversion to a Part-FCL licence, be prepared to make a subsequent visit to US to complete the FAA application process. While Transport is generally quick verifying licence authenticity this process which is a conversion pre-requisite cannot be done until the licence has been issued and that can take up to 90 days. Transport is up against the wall right now so expect it to take 90 days. In spite of this you will have temporary privileges in Canada after the successful completion of the flight test, etc, should you do the licence there.

You may make an electronic request for the US Airmen Certification Branch to verify the authenticity of a Canadian licence however the application for a US airman certificate requires an appointment with an inspector or designated person. There is one of the latter species in UK but the fee is comparable to a weekend trip to the US. The 40-question FAA private pilot conversion exam, exam code PCP, may be attempted at any time and no instructor endorsement is needed. The test report is valid for 24 months.

A list of flight schools authorised to give flight training to aliens admitted to the US under a student visa is maintained by DHS's Student and Visitor Exchange Program (link). Select flight school in the education type menu. See also guidance on TSA requirements offered by AOPA (link).

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've licences in the UK, EU, USA and Canada, rented in all of them, trained in the USA and UK.

Originally Posted by Piqueteer

Hi all,

I'm hoping you can assist me as I'm completely green around acquiring a PPL other than the research I've done online.
Background: I'm a UK resident, I have 5 weeks off work next year and I'm looking to do my PPL in USA or Canada to get the licence in an accelerated manner. I'm not as interested in the European schools as I have some family in USA who I would be looking to see before going home.

From my research I've probably got more confused which is why I'm asking the question here, and some of the threads on PPRuNe have answered my questions but some have convoluted things so any help is greatly appreciated.

USA:

• Had contacts from 3-4 schools in Florida very promptly and they have good reviews. Very swish marketing and operation by first impressions.

Take care of swish marketing. Some American schools are superb, some are just well marketed. Contact people who have trained there, and particularly look hard at the responses to any difficult questions you ask. Did they give you the answers they thought you wanted, or did they give you the answers they thought you needed? If they aren't training at-least a proportion of local students, I'd be suspicious.

Train during a period of time, see friends and family in a different period of time. Don't mix them. If you're going for a dedicated flying course, be dedicated.

Wherever you go, and whatever route you take, do as much study as possible beforehand. In the USA, I'd personally recommend the online Rod Machado courses as being worth every cent. In Europe we're not blessed with such good CBT resources, but the Jeremy Pratt books from AFE are good.

• Will acquire FAA PPL and therefore will have to convert it to an EASA PPL on return
  • I am working on the assumption that I can fly N-REG planes in UK on my return, get the 100 hours needed and then pass the relevant theory laws. Please confirm that is correct as everyone seems to have a different opinion!

You can validate an FAA licence in the UK with a paperwork exercise and what amounts to (in all but name) a UK air law and procedures oral exam. That will let you fly G-reg aeroplanes, which will give you vastly more choice than looking for N-reg aeroplanes. Eventually yes, shoot for the 100hr thing if you are only going for PPL; if you are going for a professional licence, then don't bother as an FAA PPL is good enough to start an EASA CPL course.

The USA and UK are quite different flying environments however. Air Law, radio, weather, information sources, charts, airspace rules - they're all somewhat different. Expect to spend high single figure hours with an instructor in the UK, and several days study at-least before you're safe to fly in the UK on your own.

•  
  • Based on the below: If you hold an ICAO-compliant private pilot licence issued outside Europe, you can convert it to a European PPL. In order to do this, you will need to pass theory exams on air law and human performance as well as a skill test. Additionally, you need to have at least 100 hours as a pilot in the relevant aircraft category, hold a European medical certificate and have demonstrated language proficiency in the language to be used for radio communication.

That's my understanding also, other than that I think it's 100hrs Pilot in command, not just hours as a pilot.

• Weather in June / July in Florida seems to be okay (less so in July) based on the schools input but can anyone confirm this based on experience?

Just about okay in June, July is getting iffy. March-May should be far better.

Canada:

• Contacted 7 schools in Canada and no responses yet after 3 weeks but give fairness that it was the Christmas Break.
• Will get a CAR PPL - presume this works the same as the above so can rake up more hours on return.

Also my understanding - as an aside, if you have either an EASA or FAA PPL, basically all you need is paperwork and a short interview to get a reciprocal Transport Canada PPL

• Weather conditions presumably not as suitable as in USA but aiming to be in Toronto, any ideas on this? Based on research looks okay but USA is stronger contender on that front.

No, but I'm sure you're up to looking up websites that tell you about climate around the world. Don't forget that the USA and Canada are utterly massive, so look at climate as close as possible to where you're considering training - not generically for the country.

I know theres a few questions here but I'm looking more for affirmation around the conversion than anything else. Plus any first hand experience, old hand advice is very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance

I have spent some quality time recently at Crystal Aero Group, Crystal River, FL - I was very happy with most aspects of the place, and I think you'd get satisfaction there.

Make sure you fully understand the requirements for visas - I think for PPL you *only* need an M1 training visa, and a supporting letter from a CEVIS approved school in the USA. Make very sure that you have the paperwork right.

Get a good logbook that is detailed enough for both the EASA and FAA systems. There are subtle differences between the two countries' logging requirements, but it's not difficult to get right - mainly just don't go for one of the cheapest PPL logbooks. If you want an off the shelf recommendation, the Pooleys Non-JAR Commercial Pilots Logbook is smart, a sensible size, and I used one for years both sides of the Atlantic without any trouble.

G

[Ebbie 2003]

Rudestuff - are there forms for the 45 quid thing that you can point me towards.

I went to Earls Colne a couple of years back and they told me that with my FAA PPL and 300 hours it counted for nothing and that I would have to do an EASA course with them, close to ten grand - it sounded like BS, so I left.

Maybe I shouldn't have said I'm over from Barbados for a while - we're not all minted!

[selfin]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

You can validate an FAA licence in the UK with a paperwork exercise and what
amounts to (in all but name) a UK air law and procedures oral exam. That will
let you fly G-reg aeroplanes, which will give you vastly more choice than
looking for N-reg aeroplanes. Eventually yes, shoot for the 100hr thing if you
are only going for PPL; if you are going for a professional licence, then don't
bother as an FAA PPL is good enough to start an EASA CPL course.

The licence conversion and class rating acceptance requirements made in Annex III to the Aircrew Regulation specify only 100 hours of flight time in category and class respectively (pdf link Dec 2019 consolidated version, pp 227–228). The experience need not be as pilot-in-command. Any ICAO Annex 1-compliant PPL meets the licence pre-requisite for a Part-FCL CPL course. Appendix 3 to the Part-FCL refers.

The UK exemption E 4863 covering US airman certificates is not a validation. A validation done in accordance with Annex III requires, inter alia, 100 hours as pilot in the relevant category and a skill test. In the case of other ICAO Annex 1-compliant licences a declaration, suitable for specific non-commercial tasks when flying 28 or fewer days per calendar year, may be made. See form SRG2141 for UK. That declaration is not applicable when the aircraft operator is not resident/established in EU (UK) or when the aircraft does not have an EASA (UK Part-21) certificate of airworthiness or permit to fly.

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

Also my understanding - as an aside, if you have either an EASA or FAA PPL,
basically all you need is paperwork and a short interview to get a reciprocal
Transport Canada PPL

Licensed pilots wishing to fly in Canada may seek a time-limited foreign licence validation certificate (see AC 400-003), a non-convertible foreign-based private pilot licence, or a standard private pilot licence or licence of a higher class. A standard licence requires a flight test unless obtained in accordance with the US–Canada BASA–IPL. See subsection (8) in standard 421.26 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.

NAV Canada publishes local weather area manuals for each forecast region (link).

The US student visa requirement is adequately reviewed in US DOJ memorandum from the Office of the Executive Associate Commissioner dated 12 Apr 2002 (pdf link).

[Genghis the Engineer]

No dispute that there are various caveats and limitations - here's the actual CAA rules. For the benefit of the OP who may be less familiar with the terminology "ICAO compliant" includes both Canada and the USA, "FAA" means the USA only.
https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...n-UK-airspace/

G

[selfin]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

No dispute that there are various caveats and limitations - here's the actual CAA rules.

That's a cockeyed CAA interpretation of European rules. The Aircrew Regulation only applies to personnel involved in the operation of aircraft registered in and controlled by an EASA member state or, when the aircraft operator resides or is established in EU, aircraft registered elsewhere and flown in EU. Except for most aircraft listed in annex I to the Basic EASA Regulation. See article 3 of the Aircrew Regulation and articles 2, 20 and 21 of the Basic EASA Regulation.

The first para on the CAA page states:

If you are the holder of a current and valid licence, rating and medical, you
may exercise the private privileges of your ICAO licence/certificate in UK if
you have declared to us and your licence has been verified directly by the
issuing Authority airspace until you need to convert to a European licence.

The first para in the section "ICAO Declaration for 28 days per calendar year for 3rd country licence holder" states:

This declaration allows the holder to fly for a maximum of 28 days per year. If
you come to the UK every year and wish to fly for pleasure, you will have to
follow this process every year.

These are misleading because no distinction between resident and non-resident aircraft operators is made. The rules covering licence validations, declarations done in lieu of validations, acceptances of class and type ratings, and licence and rating conversions are made in annex III pursuant to article 8 point 1—as an alternative to the requirement made in article 3 point 1 to hold a Part-FCL licence and a Part-MED certificate—in accordance with which member states may accept third-country licences, ratings, certificates, medicals, etc, on the condition that no appropriate BASA–IPL is in force. It was in anticipation of an EU–US BASA–IPL that EASA invited member states to make an article 14 (now article 70) exemption such as UK has done for US airman certificate holders. In any event none of this applies to non-resident operators wishing to fly third-country aircraft.

The last sentence in the ICAO declaration section of the CAA page states:

From April 2019, the applicant's acclimatisation flight must be conducted by a UK examiner.

This conflicts with the implementing rules at point 8(b) in section A of annex III:

... [provided the applicant] has completed at least one acclimatisation flight with a qualified instructor prior to carrying out the specific tasks of limited duration.

[Piqueteer]

Originally Posted by selfin

It will take a motivated Canadian school to cover all training within 5 weeks. Should you contemplate converting a Canadian licence to an FAA equivalent, in order to accumulate sufficient flying experience in UK to pursue conversion to a Part-FCL licence, be prepared to make a subsequent visit to US to complete the FAA application process. While Transport is generally quick verifying licence authenticity this process which is a conversion pre-requisite cannot be done until the licence has been issued and that can take up to 90 days. Transport is up against the wall right now so expect it to take 90 days. In spite of this you will have temporary privileges in Canada after the successful completion of the flight test, etc, should you do the licence there.

You may make an electronic request for the US Airmen Certification Branch to verify the authenticity of a Canadian licence however the application for a US airman certificate requires an appointment with an inspector or designated person. There is one of the latter species in UK but the fee is comparable to a weekend trip to the US. The 40-question FAA private pilot conversion exam, exam code PCP, may be attempted at any time and no instructor endorsement is needed. The test report is valid for 24 months.

A list of flight schools authorised to give flight training to aliens admitted to the US under a student visa is maintained by DHS's Student and Visitor Exchange Program. Select flight school in the education type menu. See also guidance on TSA requirements offered by AOPA .

Yes almost all the Canadian schools I have contacted said it would be 16 weeks plus to get PPL which surprised me. I think I will have to look towards America just due to timings

[alland2012]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

FAA sounds like a sensible plan. The good news is you do NOT have to convert to EASA. The UK CAA will give you a validation for about £45. No exams, no flight test. No need to get a night rating.

I went this FAA validation route in order to fly G-Reg aircraft in the UK on my FAA ticket, I had to submit certified log book copies to the CAA, complete the air law exam, Human Performance exam, Radio licence exam. No issue to pass them, after all if you can't then you shouldn't be flying anyway. But the drawback with the validation is it's only valid for 12 months, then you have to re-apply all over again and the process takes up to 3 months. I've done it twice now, but this year is still unknown because to date no one at the CAA can confirm one way or the other what will happen after brexit.

[selfin]

Piqueteer, in either case, should you end up leaving north America without completing an accelerated course, foreign training is accepted by both Transport and FAA. The relevant standard on the crediting of foreign experience towards the Canadian private pilot licence is at 421.26(9)(c) (link). For US airman certificates and ratings the general rule is at 14 CFR 61.41 (navigate to title 14 at ecfr.gov).

alland2012, the declaration available to US airman certificate holders, as an alternative to a validation, has a validity period of 24 months. See ORS4 No. 1301 (pdf link).

[alland2012]

Originally Posted by selfin

alland2012, the declaration available to US airman certificate holders, as an alternative to a validation, has a validity period of 24 months. See ORS4 No. 1301 (pdf link).

My declaration email from the CAA does state the exemption is only valid from 8th April 2019 until 8th April 2020 which is of course 12 months, so I’m confused by the wording in ORS4 No. 1301 where it does clearly state the declaration is valid for 24 months. but also gives the dates of between 8th April 2019 -8th April 2020.
Im obviously missing something in the interpretation here,

Looks like I’m in for a frustrating phone call to the CAA in the hope I can speak to someone who can give me a definitive answer...do I continue flying on the declaration I have now until it reaches 24 months in April 2021 or need apply again in April 2020 ?

[Raptor123]

USA hands down

I would say doing your PPL in America would be better as the FAA is quite well known and is generally considered to be the place to go for getting a PPL as they are by far the strictest (followed just behind the CAA for an EASA PPL).

[Pilot DAR]

I know that Canadian flying schools are heavily booked these days. That's not to say that they don't want more business, but the responsible flying schools are honourable in trying to not over promise completion times. Brampton Flying Club, Durham Flight Training in Oshawa, and Spectrum in Burlington are good places to inquire, and there are others. There are also smaller schools and training organizations who are more agile and prompt to complete training, though not so present in international searches. WM Aero in Peterborough is one. I have had very good experience with Alec Meyers at Toronto Island Airport:

https://alecmyersflighttraining.com/

The weather has been a little less predictable lately, and that has made scheduling a little more difficult. But, we've still been flying...

Toronto has a lot of merit, as it offers all of the controlled airspace and radio work you could want for experience, though a half hour out of the city in any direction, and you pretty well have the sky to yourself. An hour north is very nice scenery, with many small airports, and hardly any "airspace".

PM me if you need more information.