Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)
Thread Starter
I see the much altered TCT wiki page has an entry for the Daily Mail story.
Muriel Mary is a New Zealand based wiki contributer who deletes any none postive entries which she calls vandalism.
The above from the talks section of wiki.
There is no mention of her Goodwood or the Arizona accidents despite the latter destroying the aircraft.
TCT was planning to be at Farnborough with Spirit of Artemis. Is there any update on those plans?
Controversy over solo flights
In July 2016, the Daily Mail ran a story in which Curtis-Taylor's logistics manager Sam Rutherford accused her of "embellishing the truth" about her flights. He asserted that the BBC4 documentary The Woman Who Flew Africa: The Aviatrixmisleadingly portrayed her flights as being solo, when in fact for all but four of the 36 legs of the trip, she had been accompanied in the plane by Ewald Gritsch, a highly experienced pilot and owner of the plane. In addition, Rutherford criticised the documentary's description of the Cape Town to Goodwood flight as "ten thousand miles with no modern technology, just a joystick and pedals" when in reality the aircraft was equipped with the latest navigational devices and GPS. Curtis-Taylor responded to the claim that she was accompanied during most of her time in the air by stating that she had always been the sole pilot of the Spirit of Artemis.[26]
I have nothing to do with it but we will see how long it remains there.
In July 2016, the Daily Mail ran a story in which Curtis-Taylor's logistics manager Sam Rutherford accused her of "embellishing the truth" about her flights. He asserted that the BBC4 documentary The Woman Who Flew Africa: The Aviatrixmisleadingly portrayed her flights as being solo, when in fact for all but four of the 36 legs of the trip, she had been accompanied in the plane by Ewald Gritsch, a highly experienced pilot and owner of the plane. In addition, Rutherford criticised the documentary's description of the Cape Town to Goodwood flight as "ten thousand miles with no modern technology, just a joystick and pedals" when in reality the aircraft was equipped with the latest navigational devices and GPS. Curtis-Taylor responded to the claim that she was accompanied during most of her time in the air by stating that she had always been the sole pilot of the Spirit of Artemis.[26]
I have nothing to do with it but we will see how long it remains there.
On 2nd July 2016, UK newspaper, The Daily Mail, printed an article calling her alleged 'solo' flying achievements into question. Taylor responded by stating her flights were made when she was the 'sole' pilot.[1]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3670873/Amy-Johnson-ain-t-Solo-flying-poster-girl-brought-earth-claims-pilot-flew-just-four-36-round-world-legs-own.html
Hi Guffydrawers are you able to advise on how this page could be protected from vandalism? It's been attacked several times over the past 24 hours. Thanks! MurielMary (talk) 18:38, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Cancel that, taken care of! MurielMary (talk) 19:20, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi Guffydrawers are you able to advise on how this page could be protected from vandalism? It's been attacked several times over the past 24 hours. Thanks! MurielMary (talk) 18:38, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Cancel that, taken care of! MurielMary (talk) 19:20, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
There is no mention of her Goodwood or the Arizona accidents despite the latter destroying the aircraft.
TCT was planning to be at Farnborough with Spirit of Artemis. Is there any update on those plans?
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 4th Jul 2016 at 11:48. Reason: typo
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Interesting, JS.
It rang a bell with me a while back that our mysterious 'MurielMary' hails from New Zealand.
From that extract of Canopener's earlier post, I was reminded that it seems TCT's twin sister is also in NZ.
Just co-incidence? Hmm?
Re Farnborough, it was mentioned on here recently that TCT has been reported in the press as doing some high-profile loitering around Farnborough Road.
What's that indicate, I wonder?
As for "The Spirit of Artifice", I'm sure Ewald will be able to have it ready for the show. If not, then a reasonable facsimile of it.
(There's money riding on this, you know).
.
It rang a bell with me a while back that our mysterious 'MurielMary' hails from New Zealand.
From that extract of Canopener's earlier post, I was reminded that it seems TCT's twin sister is also in NZ.
Just co-incidence? Hmm?
Re Farnborough, it was mentioned on here recently that TCT has been reported in the press as doing some high-profile loitering around Farnborough Road.
What's that indicate, I wonder?
As for "The Spirit of Artifice", I'm sure Ewald will be able to have it ready for the show. If not, then a reasonable facsimile of it.
(There's money riding on this, you know).
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 4th Jul 2016 at 12:42.
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On the topic of preplanning the route, including assuring a welcome and required services at each destination, it is apparent to me that TCT (and her team) did this right, and JJ did not. For that, I recognize the collective TCT effort as something which deserves a "well done", by comparison to the JJ effort. I do not accept that a pilot should arrive unexpectedly/without permission at a remote destination, and expect any services. The cost to accommodate a person by the day in Antarctica is high - did JJ offer to pay those costs?
Our society has, to some degree, accepted that we must bear the cost of rescuing adventurers, but I feel that the adventurers must bear some cost of the rescue, or at least mitigating it. If insurance is required, buy the insurance. As recently as yesterday, a marine distress call was made to the Canadian Armed Forces Rescue Coordination Center for a boat aground and in distress in our waters (the fire department I serve). I expect that a Hercules and Cormorant helicopter were being readied for departure, while the provincial police boat was being dispatched (a half hour one way trip to the area). We were dispatched, so I flew my plane, two fire trucks dispatched with ten firefighters, with four to our boat, and it left for the distress area (5 minute water trip). During which time, I found the boat gently aground on the beach. The errant mariners were walking the boat back to deeper water, as I directed our boat to them.
When our boat arrived, the vessel in distress denied making a distress call at all. So, we redirected our search efforts outwards into the lake. After 30 minutes, the CAF RCC contacted back saying that the vessel was no longer in distress, we were called off. That cost real money. The errant mariners could have mitigated that whole event with the correct use of a chart, and at least admitting that it was them when our boat arrived!
I have the same lack of patience for adventurers who carelessly, or worse deliberately, cause use of public resources and cost, as I do for people who lie about their achievements. At least TCT put her plane safely in a box for the dangerous parts of circumnavigation!
Our society has, to some degree, accepted that we must bear the cost of rescuing adventurers, but I feel that the adventurers must bear some cost of the rescue, or at least mitigating it. If insurance is required, buy the insurance. As recently as yesterday, a marine distress call was made to the Canadian Armed Forces Rescue Coordination Center for a boat aground and in distress in our waters (the fire department I serve). I expect that a Hercules and Cormorant helicopter were being readied for departure, while the provincial police boat was being dispatched (a half hour one way trip to the area). We were dispatched, so I flew my plane, two fire trucks dispatched with ten firefighters, with four to our boat, and it left for the distress area (5 minute water trip). During which time, I found the boat gently aground on the beach. The errant mariners were walking the boat back to deeper water, as I directed our boat to them.
When our boat arrived, the vessel in distress denied making a distress call at all. So, we redirected our search efforts outwards into the lake. After 30 minutes, the CAF RCC contacted back saying that the vessel was no longer in distress, we were called off. That cost real money. The errant mariners could have mitigated that whole event with the correct use of a chart, and at least admitting that it was them when our boat arrived!
I have the same lack of patience for adventurers who carelessly, or worse deliberately, cause use of public resources and cost, as I do for people who lie about their achievements. At least TCT put her plane safely in a box for the dangerous parts of circumnavigation!
Muriel Mary is a New Zealand based wiki contributer who deletes any none postive entries which she calls vandalism.
G
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Well in spite of what I had initially thought was a witch-hunt, it looks like TCT’s porky pies and embellishments have been well and truly rumbled, both here and in the national press and deservedly so. All credit to Jay and Sam for highlighting the deceit.
Those who care now know the facts, and folks like the ones who comment on her Facebook page that this is all just a nasty tall poppy campaign in spite of the facts don’t want to accept the obvious and never will.
Time to let the old gal get on with her life
Those who care now know the facts, and folks like the ones who comment on her Facebook page that this is all just a nasty tall poppy campaign in spite of the facts don’t want to accept the obvious and never will.
Time to let the old gal get on with her life
Ghengis, you have phrased it better than I could.
I know very little about Wikipedia (other than quoting it ad nauseam when it suits me) but it strikes me strange that MM has been able to lock the edit function simply because she wishes it. Looking at the recent history, there have been some very clumsy edits by people who obviously are trying to prove a point but I was surprised to see what I thought was the 'smoking gun' deleted. Someone (possibly a professional pilot from the comments) had followed up on the 'waybackwhen' page which showed TCT's website as it appeared in Feb 2015 where it stated quite clearly that she had flown solo across Africa and compared it to the current version in which she states she flew 'sole'.
Seems to me that an experienced wikipedia (possibly female) editor is needed to get the truth up there.
I know very little about Wikipedia (other than quoting it ad nauseam when it suits me) but it strikes me strange that MM has been able to lock the edit function simply because she wishes it. Looking at the recent history, there have been some very clumsy edits by people who obviously are trying to prove a point but I was surprised to see what I thought was the 'smoking gun' deleted. Someone (possibly a professional pilot from the comments) had followed up on the 'waybackwhen' page which showed TCT's website as it appeared in Feb 2015 where it stated quite clearly that she had flown solo across Africa and compared it to the current version in which she states she flew 'sole'.
Seems to me that an experienced wikipedia (possibly female) editor is needed to get the truth up there.
This page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tracey_Curtis-Taylor
shows some of the background to the Wiki page editing and is more interesting than the page itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tracey_Curtis-Taylor
shows some of the background to the Wiki page editing and is more interesting than the page itself.
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No, they actually ran into some problems regarding planing and permissions aswell. Maybe the whole story will surface sometime.
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And right there lies some hard evidence, which massages the entire matter quite considerably IMHO.
The submission could quite easily be between Dec 13 - to on or about 3rd July, dishonestly and intending to make a gain for herself or another, or expose another to risk of loss by way of false representation, which she knew might not be true and/or misleading, namely that she flew 'solo' and 'alone' in breach of section 1/2 of the Fraud Act 2006.
Was it all worth it? Well, she found two, if not more, affluent males to finance her jolly when all she needed to say from the outset was that the aircraft owner/instructor was riding shotgun with her to promote GA Aviation, if she really had to do it. An award/s? I don't think so.
If she can get some very simple facts like this wrong, one wonders what her logbook looks like? Lets not go there. The phrase 'can of worms' springs to mind. I would suggest that the entries should be P1/S
The submission could quite easily be between Dec 13 - to on or about 3rd July, dishonestly and intending to make a gain for herself or another, or expose another to risk of loss by way of false representation, which she knew might not be true and/or misleading, namely that she flew 'solo' and 'alone' in breach of section 1/2 of the Fraud Act 2006.
Was it all worth it? Well, she found two, if not more, affluent males to finance her jolly when all she needed to say from the outset was that the aircraft owner/instructor was riding shotgun with her to promote GA Aviation, if she really had to do it. An award/s? I don't think so.
If she can get some very simple facts like this wrong, one wonders what her logbook looks like? Lets not go there. The phrase 'can of worms' springs to mind. I would suggest that the entries should be P1/S
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Thanks, I42.
Isn't that an interesting and informative read?
As clareprop suggests, it's probably going to take a senior female editor to sort out 'Guffydrawers' and 'MurielMary'.
Wikipedia's reputation for objectivity and editorial integrity is now wide open to question (if it wasn't before).
p.s. I can't help saying it again, but..
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when at first, ..."
.
Isn't that an interesting and informative read?
As clareprop suggests, it's probably going to take a senior female editor to sort out 'Guffydrawers' and 'MurielMary'.
Wikipedia's reputation for objectivity and editorial integrity is now wide open to question (if it wasn't before).
p.s. I can't help saying it again, but..
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when at first, ..."
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 4th Jul 2016 at 16:36. Reason: ps
Thread Starter
In reply to Tractorpuller
Sam Rutherford was in charge of logistics so he has the answer.
Whatever there was no requirement for an airline pilot to sit in the front seat. My understanding is her problem throughout these trips is her inability to navigate cross country outside of her comfort zone. Hence Ewald being in the front seat. That of course explains why he was on board on arrival in Sydney.
It will be interesting to see if the rebuilt Spirit of Artemis makes an appearance on the Boeing stand at Farnborough.
Or will the sponsors now feel that there in no future in her exploits?
I cannot see any promotional benefits for Boeing or Artemis in shipping the Stearman back to Arizona and resuming the trans America trip. Given she never flys on these trips without Ewald will he want to be the focus of attention?
The HCAP's have been quite and they still face having to give her the Masters Medal at a formal event later this year. This will be another opportunity for the press to have a go.
There is plenty of history on Tracey that the lower tabloids can have a field day with. The HCAP's defence has been she is promoting women in aviation but the Daily Mail expose last Saturday does the reverse.
There is a wonderful quote from TCT to a member of the support crew on the Africa trip. The person concerned was busy organising certain issues when she confronted him and said "What could be more important than getting my bags to the hotel?
If you live near Hull you might want to go along and ask a few questions here in a few weeks time.
http://amyjohnsonfestival.co.uk/wp-c...F-Whats-On.pdf
No, they actually ran into some problems regarding planing and permissions aswell. Maybe the whole story will surface sometime.
Whatever there was no requirement for an airline pilot to sit in the front seat. My understanding is her problem throughout these trips is her inability to navigate cross country outside of her comfort zone. Hence Ewald being in the front seat. That of course explains why he was on board on arrival in Sydney.
It will be interesting to see if the rebuilt Spirit of Artemis makes an appearance on the Boeing stand at Farnborough.
Or will the sponsors now feel that there in no future in her exploits?
I cannot see any promotional benefits for Boeing or Artemis in shipping the Stearman back to Arizona and resuming the trans America trip. Given she never flys on these trips without Ewald will he want to be the focus of attention?
The HCAP's have been quite and they still face having to give her the Masters Medal at a formal event later this year. This will be another opportunity for the press to have a go.
There is plenty of history on Tracey that the lower tabloids can have a field day with. The HCAP's defence has been she is promoting women in aviation but the Daily Mail expose last Saturday does the reverse.
There is a wonderful quote from TCT to a member of the support crew on the Africa trip. The person concerned was busy organising certain issues when she confronted him and said "What could be more important than getting my bags to the hotel?
If you live near Hull you might want to go along and ask a few questions here in a few weeks time.
http://amyjohnsonfestival.co.uk/wp-c...F-Whats-On.pdf
The BAE Systems Brough Centenary Lecture
Tracey Curtis-Taylor
My spirit found outlet in the air - Amy Johnson
Thursday 21 July
6.00 - 7.00pm
Free admission but advance booking is recommended
Tracey will tell the story of her expeditions in her 1942 bi-plane Spirit of Artemis over the past 4 years, flying Cape Town to Goodwood, Britain to Australia, and then completing the global tour with the flight across the USA.
Interwoven within the incredible adventure of these flights which have taken her through some of the most beautiful and challenging parts of the planet, is the history of pioneering aviation from the Golden Age of aviation during the inter-war period.
Tracey has been inspired by aviators such as Amy Johnson and Lady Mary Heath and her flights have given her the platform to meet thousands of women around the world, allowing her the opportunity to share her message of freedom, ambition and inspiration. She will be speaking to slides with stunning photos and breath-taking video footage from her worldwide flight.
Tracey Curtis-Taylor
My spirit found outlet in the air - Amy Johnson
Thursday 21 July
6.00 - 7.00pm
Free admission but advance booking is recommended
Tracey will tell the story of her expeditions in her 1942 bi-plane Spirit of Artemis over the past 4 years, flying Cape Town to Goodwood, Britain to Australia, and then completing the global tour with the flight across the USA.
Interwoven within the incredible adventure of these flights which have taken her through some of the most beautiful and challenging parts of the planet, is the history of pioneering aviation from the Golden Age of aviation during the inter-war period.
Tracey has been inspired by aviators such as Amy Johnson and Lady Mary Heath and her flights have given her the platform to meet thousands of women around the world, allowing her the opportunity to share her message of freedom, ambition and inspiration. She will be speaking to slides with stunning photos and breath-taking video footage from her worldwide flight.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 4th Jul 2016 at 17:10. Reason: typo
If you live near Hull you might want to go along and ask a few questions here in a few weeks time.
Tracey, how many flights did you make during your Africa, Australia and US journeys and on how many of those flights, was Ewald Gritsch in the front cockpit?
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JaySata
Given the apparent lack of skills shown by TCT, I think you are wrong there.
Whatever there was no requirement for an airline pilot to sit in the front seat.
Thread Starter
Great bit from Carol V on the one show, very obviously emphasising "SOLO - which means all by yourself!"
Reminds me of another saying much used by a friend...
"It all depends on how you do your measuring"
Sole pilot when there is an airline captain up front is a new one on me.
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Sole pilot when there is an airline captain up front is a new one on me.
I rather got the feeling that Carols emphasis was due to TCTs claims and what has been on these threads!
I really don't know what all the fuss is about.
I did my first solo in a C152, with my flying instructor sat right next to me.
I expect you all did your first solo flights in exactly the same way.
You lot really need to get over yourselves.
Next week I am flying a 747 solo to America. (OK, I'll be doing it from seat D37, but that still counts)
Wgat you should really do to cause a stir is nominate me for all the awards that TCT got.
Pah.. I'm doing it non stop. My achievements are much greater, yet completely unrecognised.
I did my first solo in a C152, with my flying instructor sat right next to me.
I expect you all did your first solo flights in exactly the same way.
You lot really need to get over yourselves.
Next week I am flying a 747 solo to America. (OK, I'll be doing it from seat D37, but that still counts)
Wgat you should really do to cause a stir is nominate me for all the awards that TCT got.
Pah.. I'm doing it non stop. My achievements are much greater, yet completely unrecognised.
