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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 27th Nov 2016, 10:46
  #2741 (permalink)  
 
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I also have to wonder about the stability of somebody who comes on here and pushes in some 40 posts within the space of a couple of days.
These posts have ranged from the plainly insulting (hysterical, hyenas etc) to, latterly, the emotive (pity, sympathy etc).
Just sayin', like.

As we say down here, it might be time for a nice cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down, mate.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 10:55
  #2742 (permalink)  
 
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As we say down here, it might be time for a nice cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down, mate.
Advice that some of those posting lately might usefully follow. The Mods have made it very clear that repetitive ad hominem attacks will result in the thread being locked.

That outcome would best suit anyone wanting to avoid Ms Curtis-Taylor being pushed to answer the questions that have been asked of her.

Let's not allow that to happen.

May I suggest that you help Tracey take a different path? It is clear she is a good speaker and communicator, she enjoys a public presence and loves flying her plane. If she is ever to be rehabilitated she will have to do something different. So get her to bite bullet. Admit the PR machine behind her has got it hopelessly wrong, admit she did little or nothing to correct it, hand back the awards and commendations etc. and stop wearing RAF wings. Then get some help. Firstly, to come to terms with reality. Then to launch a real outreach programme. One that works with the lower stratas of society and encourages them to work harder at school. We also need girls in particular to break into STEM areas. We are going to need everyone to do their bit post Brexit and losing 50% of our able bodied youth because they don't think they belong is bonkers. In the developing parts of the world, invest time not on photoshoots with women pilots but time with those who are preventing women from fully participating in their societies. Then, after building a solid worthwhile reputation doing some real work with a little flying on the side, accept an award for a real achievement.
That is excellent advice!
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 12:29
  #2743 (permalink)  
 
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It seems to me there is a big hole in the information we have on this matter.

TCT's publicity, speeches and website all deal with aviation in considerable detail and volume yet some of her "awards" appear to have been given for her "outreach" programme, apparently aimed at enthusing women into technology and engineering, a somewhat odd choice for someone flying a 70 year old aeroplane and who professes a hatred of technology. This is so bizarrely contradictory that it should raise major questions, yet it appears not to have done so thus far.

What do we know of this "outreach" programme? What does it do? What does it contain? What has it achieved? Who has been "outreached" to if that is the correct word? (That word makes me squirm, it's so hollow and faux-pretentious). What has it achieved?

If TCT has been given prestigious awards on the basis of this surely there must be a considerable resource of info to support it yet I don't recall seeing or hearing of any here? Or are we being a bit insular in concentrating on the aviation aspect?

I find the paucity of info from TCT herself, never knowingly under-promoted, both on her website and elsewhere rather odd. If it was/is so valuable a contribution why wouldn't she be flogging it as loudly as the aviation side? Does anyone know what this programme has achieved to merit her awards? Presumably those who awarded the awards do. Surely this info must be available somewhere?

Surely information compelling enough to gain these awards must be in the public domain in quantity and not just privy to the bodies concerned. Or is that an unwarranted assumption?

Anyone got the details?

Last edited by noflynomore; 27th Nov 2016 at 14:08.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 14:59
  #2744 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Terry Holloway - The Air League (of which I am Vice Chairman) and HCAP both gave her richly deserved awards for flights which we knew were not solo. The RAeS will similarly recognise her achievements next week.


is this for stick and rudder flying, outreach or technology usage? do tell Terry


does anyone know about this?


Leaving the solo scandal behind, are we now into an outreach scandal?
What does the "R" in RAeS stand for?

I think you may have your answer. TCT has some influential friends.


Terry, I noticed you made mention of Chris Huckstep and his views on this situation. I know Chris from way back and I don't seem to recall him being the sort to suffer fools gladly and he would spot a BullS&%&$r at a 1000yds. Is he aware of this thread and its factual content?
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:25
  #2745 (permalink)  
 
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terry holloway-

I think the following quote from Carl Sagan sums up your pointless defense of TCT:

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous."
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:31
  #2746 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by noflynomore View Post
It seems to me there is a big hole in the information we have on this matter.

TCT's publicity, speeches and website all deal with aviation in considerable detail and volume yet some of her "awards" appear to have been given for her "outreach" programme, apparently aimed at enthusing women into technology and engineering, a somewhat odd choice for someone flying a 70 year old aeroplane and who professes a hatred of technology. This is so bizarrely contradictory that it should raise major questions, yet it appears not to have done so thus far.

What do we know of this "outreach" programme? What does it do? What does it contain? What has it achieved? Who has been "outreached" to if that is the correct word? (That word makes me squirm, it's so hollow and faux-pretentious). What has it achieved?

If TCT has been given prestigious awards on the basis of this surely there must be a considerable resource of info to support it yet I don't recall seeing or hearing of any here? Or are we being a bit insular in concentrating on the aviation aspect?

I find the paucity of info from TCT herself, never knowingly under-promoted, both on her website and elsewhere rather odd. If it was/is so valuable a contribution why wouldn't she be flogging it as loudly as the aviation side? Does anyone know what this programme has achieved to merit her awards? Presumably those who awarded the awards do. Surely this info must be available somewhere?

Surely information compelling enough to gain these awards must be in the public domain in quantity and not just privy to the bodies concerned. Or is that an unwarranted assumption?

Anyone got the details?
They are all in the "public domain"!
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:42
  #2747 (permalink)  

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Just a comment on Terry Holloway. He has been a good friend for very many years. A very experienced pilot of light aeroplanes and gliders. The owner of a Hornet Moth and a keen member of the Moth Club. In his RAF career he achieved high rank and was chairman of the RAFSGA. In recent years he was an executive with the Marshalls Group and handled much of their PR activity as front man with the media. He is now managing director of the Cambridge Aero Club.
He is a member of the HCAP and prominent in Air League activity.
Terry and I differ in our approach to the TC-T matter, as has been made clear on the forums in recent months. It is highly unlikely that our opinions will alter.
In ending I would point out that, I understand from others, TC-T is related to the Marshall family through her grandmother who was sister to the late Sir Arthur Marshall, the founder of the Marshall Group and a renowned aviator. An illustrious family who have done much for UK aviation.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:42
  #2748 (permalink)  
 
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Terry, may I be allowed to suggest that when you are in a hole it is time to stop digging. Alternatively, foot, mouth, remove. There is no credible defence for Ms TCTs behaviour, and by supporting her, which may be charitable but isn't intelligent, you are making yourself look as dishonest as she is. I hope that this is due to Christian charity, but from my point of view, as a simple human being, it just makes you look either gullible or complicit in fraud.
I am sure the lady has feelings. I hope she feels that she has been, to say the least, economical with the truth. As for outreach? Nice buzz word. Who, apart from herself, has benefited from her promotion? How many human beings are going to lead an improved life because of her flying with considerable help on some jollies?

If you suggest that I am jealous because I have paid for my flying, guilty as charged. But on the whole I prefer it that way. It's easier on my conscience.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:47
  #2749 (permalink)  
 
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They are all in the "public domain"!
Well a lot of her her lies now are for sure , and many have been posted on this site and elsewhere .

As regarding "outreach" : Well, not much, if anything, of significance seems to be on line. or anywhere apparently readily accessible publicly.

Perhaps you can therefore point us in the right direction Terry, if it's not too much trouble?
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:53
  #2750 (permalink)  
 
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A couple of days ago, Terry agreed to ask Ms Curtis Taylor to respond to the specific questions set out earlier in this thread.

Can I suggest that, before blindly criticising him, everyone should give him the chance to deliver on that promise?

After all: if he does ask her to respond and she can't or won't, that surely provides as eloquent an answer as if she does; and her response to his request may well condition his attitude to this whole sorry story as well.

Last edited by Jonzarno; 27th Nov 2016 at 18:58. Reason: Typo
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:53
  #2751 (permalink)  
 
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Very interesting G-KEST.

I'm wondering where I have heard the term insider dealing from and what that could be about.

You would think someone as apparently intelligent as Mr Holloway, that he would immediately identify our causes or great concern.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 18:59
  #2752 (permalink)  
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The last 7 pages of this thread are almost exclusively down to the intervention of "Terry Holloway", and while a contrary view is welcome, it is clear that neither side has any intention of adjusting their position.

To cut this particular argument short I had a choice between closing the thread and thread banning "Terry Holloway".

It was not a difficult choice to be honest. Latterly his posts had fallen below an acceptable standard and several have had to be removed.

As Pilot DAR has stated, this thread remains open for new facts, not repeats of stale information.

SD
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 19:40
  #2753 (permalink)  
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Being one of the primary players in this thread I welcome Terry Holloway's input.

Just google Terry Holloway pilot and you will see he has made a serious contribution to aviation especially for the Air Cadets.

He certainly warrants a wiki article for his career and achievments as does Barry Tempest

In Answer to pilotmikes post and Terry Holloways allegation.
Terry Holloway claims that:
Quote:
The truth has been out for ages but as prosecutor, judge and jury he [Mike Flynn] is intent - for whatever reason - in totally destroying her life and reputation.
Not so Terry.
All I have ever done is post what is out there on the internet and with links.

As a retired journalist,broadcaster and private pilot I became interested in the TCT story halfway through her voyage to Australia.Newspaper reports of a solo flight did not match the many pictures of two people on board.

This was not a private flight but a highly funded PR exercise to promote Artemis, Boeing and TCT. As such the media believed the story because of those two high value corporate names. Indeed Boeing issued a press release when she was in the Middle East stating it was a solo trip.
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boei...essRelease.pdf

Even an average journalist checks facts.

pilotmike pretty much sums up the charade


From the abundant evidence, T C--T has already totally destroyed any possible good reputation she might once have had, all by herself, without any assistance from Mike Flynn or anyone else.

If she chooses to continue the charade with more lies, deceipt, cover-ups and backtracking, whilst blaming others and refusing to accept any blame in orchestrating her downfall, to the extent that it also ruins her life - as Terry Holloway suggests - that is entirely in her hands.
100 % correct pilotmike.

Tracey continues to put her foot in it with comments such those in the recent Times story.

She admits she could have done more to correct misleading reports that made liberal use of the phrase “flying solo”.

“I wish we’d sorted that misreporting out but I can’t do everything all of the time,” she said.
Bird in a Biplane swoops on claims she didn?t fly solo | News | The Times & The Sunday Times

Spool back Tracey and check what you said on video at Herne Bay.
Don't blame anyone for your words claiming solo flight.

Furth down that Times report we have this.

She estimates she was alone in the aircraft for about 10 per cent of the time, with guest passengers for 20 per cent and with Ewald Gritsch, her Austrian engineer, for the rest.

“When we’re filming, flying low over places like the Bagan temples in Burma, it was Ewald’s job to look out for hazards, wires, cables, cell towers, temples. I was the one flying the plane.”
So for 90% of the time she was not alone or solo as we say in flying circles?

For any fixed wing VFR private pilot to fly so low they need someone to "look out for wires,cables,cell towers and temples while "flying the plane" suggests pure and absolute recklessness.

The whole Bird in Biplane story would be long forgotten had it not been for the plethora of awards she has been showered with.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 28th Nov 2016 at 04:28.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 19:49
  #2754 (permalink)  
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At the request of some long-standing contributor's to this thread, I have changed "Terry Holloway's" thread ban from permanent to 3 days, to allow a suitable period for reflection before re-entering the discussion.

Continued insults will result in posts being removed.

I re-iterate that this thread remains open for new information - this applies to ALL contributors. In particular, responses to Jonzarno's questions and any factual information on the outreach program.

SD
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 20:08
  #2755 (permalink)  
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Terry Holloway

This might seem strange but I am now posting the below in defence of Terry Holloway.

Terry has done a lot for GA over his career as can be seen from this.

Terry Holloway was born on 5th January 1945 and joined No 424 (Southampton) Squadron of the Air Training Corps in 1959. As an air cadet, he flew solo in a T31 glider at the Voluntary Gliding School at Christchurch in 1961. The following year, he joined the Royal Air Force as a Halton apprentice and continued his gliding with the Windrushers Gliding Club at RAF Bicester, which subsequently became the RAF Gliding & Soaring Association Centre. He has flown over 3,000 hours in gliders, and qualified as a full category British Gliding Association Gliding Instructor and a Motor Glider Instructor. Terry developed considerable expertise in mountain gliding in the Alps, and led the first Royal Air Force gliding expedition which flew over the Andes from Chile into Argentina in 1996.

Prior to his retirement from the Royal Air Force, Terry was a Vice-Chairman of the RAF Gliding & Soaring Association (RAFGSA) with particular responsibility for safety and operational matters. On his retirement from the RAF, he was made a Life Member of the RAFGSA.

Terry gained his Private Pilot’s Licence at the Luton Flying Club in 1963 having first achieved a “C” gliding certificate. He learned to fly on Austers soloing in 3 hrs 25 minutes and, subsequently purchased a share in a Tiger Moth. Since then, he has flown over 100 types of light aircraft and has been involved in glider towing, parachute dropping, air to air photography, air to ground photography as well as recreational and business flying. He has completed a number of long distance flights in light aircraft including to the North of Norway and the Mediterranean. In 2000, he flew a Piper Aztec from England to the United States down the East coast, across the mid West and up the West coast to Seattle. He has maintained a keen interest in vintage aircraft having flown and operated a de Havilland 87b Hornet Moth and Tiger Moths over a number of years.

He holds a Civil Aviation Authority Display Authorisation, is a highly accomplished formation pilot and has been a regular performer at flying displays throughout the UK. Terry flies on British and American pilots Licences with multi-engined and Instrument ratings, and regularly flies his Company’s PA27 Aztec, and a variety of light aircraft. He has amassed in excess of 5,500 hours in powered aircraft which brings his total flying experience to more than 8500 hours, in 193 different aircraft and glider types.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 28th Nov 2016 at 04:30.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 20:37
  #2756 (permalink)  
 
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I didn't realise TH had been banned. I think that's unfortunate.

As the person who questioned the poster's credentials initially, it has become apparent that he is exactly who he says he is. For doubting, I apologise but it is an anonymous forum of course, so I plead internet...

I have met TH on a professional basis (no details other than to say nearby sandpit) in the past and he is a very pleasant and impressive individual. His background speaks for itself. I think his opinion on this subject is important, given his role with Marshalls.

While I appreciate Gp Capt Holloway has a corporate responsibility both to Marshalls and to the Air League, I am concerned that while there is an acknowledgment of the issues, the pachyderm in the room has been overlooked, seemingly deliberately.

The evidence shows that is absolutely clear and without doubt that there has been some embellishment of certain achievements. Awards have been given on the basis of those stated achievements and have subsequently either been rescinded or "adjusted" to fit the corrected facts.

What has not changed is the fact that there is recorded and published evidence of an individual claiming credit for achievements which have not actually occurred for which awards have been conferred. I hesitate to use the word "solo" really but within the aviation world, it has significant connotations. In short, it means "the sole person on board".

Sir, you have genuinely flown solo on a route where I will routinely carry three pilots - you know exactly what I mean.

Personally, I won't lose much sleep over an individual claiming solo or otherwise. What I have a huge issue with is otherwise hugely reputable and responsible organisations such as HCAP and the Air League knowingly choosing to continue to associate themselves with something which amounts to a level of deception. Get a grip, ladies and gentlemen.

I hope Group Captain Holloway chooses to continue to post.

Kind regards,

Armchair Pilot (14000 hours, airline captain, display pilot, B&Q and Bar)

Last edited by Tay Cough; 27th Nov 2016 at 20:54.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 20:57
  #2757 (permalink)  
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I didn't realise TH had been banned. I think that's unfortunate.
Please can you read what I have stated?

Following intercession on his behalf by others, Terry now has a 3-day thread ban to give him and this thread a chance to move away from the hamsterwheel it had become, and for him to reflect on his choice of language in a number of his posts.

Hopefully this period can be used to pull together and present some new information.

SD
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 21:38
  #2758 (permalink)  
 
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I have it on good authority that at least one member of HCAP resigned over the Master's Award. The false solo claims were not the main issue. However, self confessed claims about the apparently unprofessional way in which the flight was conducted were.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 21:44
  #2759 (permalink)  
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One question I want to ask Group Captain Terry Holloway is how he ,as a retired RAF officer,
views her wearing a WW2 Pilot Brevet
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 23:30
  #2760 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata View Post
One question I want to ask Group Captain Terry Holloway is how he ,as a retired RAF officer,
views her wearing a WW2 Pilot Brevet
This article may be worth reading Jay Calls for imposters who wear ?fake military medals? to be thrown in jail - The News


I have just e-mailed Miles O'Leary and Tom Cotterill (both are journalists at Portsmouth Press) with an update on the wings side of things. They are also aware that an FOI has been submitted to Portsmouth Uni. If folk won't offer the truth then perhaps a little "official" pressure might make them see sense.

The Bill can be fund here: http://www.publications.parliament.u.../658/65802.htm

I have also written to Gareth Johnson MP appraising him of the situation viz TCT and those wings.

Last edited by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY; 28th Nov 2016 at 00:04. Reason: added link to the Bill.
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