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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 25th Nov 2016, 21:43
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno
Jaysata

As you have asked me to repost these questions, here they are although I did post a link to one of the posts containing them earlier today:

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread:

Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

in which she personally makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?


One point I would make is that I believe that these three questions are at the heart of this debate. I would ask all of those who feel aggrieved by what Ms Curtis-Taylor may or may not have done to allow the focus to remain directly on getting answers to them.

Spleen venting about the perceived sins she may or may not have committed only serves to veil these questions which i still believe go to the heart of the question of whether Ms Curtis-Taylor deserves the accolades she has received or not.

Please: let's focus on whether she "did what she said on the tin" or not. If yes, let's all apologise to her. If not, let's see if she can be persuaded to own up and apologise.

For my part: whichever of those routes she goes, I would support her. Whether as someone who has justified her position or as someone who screwed up, recognised the fact and genuinely turned over the proverbial new leaf.

Let's see!
It's for you to ask her those questions.
As I have already said, I'm not her spokesman.
I stumbled across this thread because of Maurice Kirk and thought the thread - you all- were being unfair and not giving her any credit for her achievements in planning the fights, raising the money, and flying the aeroplane. For goodness sake, neither flight was a record flight, and both were for make films as well as playing a part in an out reach program. OK the media reports were misleading and somebody has posted a comment from her saying she didn't mean to be misleading. I don't know her well enough to comment on that, but I am prepared to believe her. As I said earlier, apart from a brief 30 minute visit two weeks ago I've not seen her for two years.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 21:51
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It is the awards that upset us Terry not the lies.

But of course the lies are part of the basis for the awards.

Are you and the Air League still happy with her being granted a framed address?

Ewald never got one!
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 21:51
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata
I don't think you appreciate Terry ,the damage TCT did to GA with her claims of solo flight in the media.

She, you and others appear to now back track and say she never flew solo?

That was not the story a year ago.

The press would never have covered such a blatant PR jaunt.

Why did you not correct claims such as this.
British pilot Tracey Curtis Taylor days away from completing 13,000 mile solo flight - ITV News

Nicola Harley at the Daily Telegraph says TCT told her it was a solo trip,hence this story.
Female pilot starts epic solo flight to copy Amy Johnson - Telegraph
Damage to GA is being done by this ongoing squabble. My opening comment was about moving on, but clearly you have nothing better to do.
I knew the facts, and The Air League award was issued on the basis of those facts. Neither I nor the Air League have or had any remit to correct what the press said about her. That was down to her and her sponsors. I am certain HCAP, WHO ALSO KNEW THE FACTS, would take the same view.

Originally Posted by Jay Sata
It is the awards that upset us Terry not the lies.

But of course the lies are part of the basis for the awards.

Are you and the Air League still happy with her being granted a framed address?

Ewald never got one!
Yes we are very happy with the award of a framed address which was not based on a lie. It was for a flight with a passenger and her outreach work!

Originally Posted by terry holloway
Yes we are very happy with the award of a framed address which was not based on a lie. It was for a flight with a passenger and her outreach work!
Actually,
Erwald was mentioned in the HCAP Citation. But then he was only a passenger.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 21:56
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In less than 1/4 hour since my last post we have enough new posts, including from Terry responding to criticisms, to hide the questions I asked.

Terry, please: can you commit to trying to get direct and open honest answers to my questions?

Everyone else: PLEASE can we keep the focus on these questions? Just slagging Ms Curtis-Taylor off will achieve nothing. Either we are maligning an innocent person or we are throwing out a cloud of criticism, much of it subjective, that makes it easy for the accused to "duck and cover".

Let's keep it simple, unemotional and factual. Either the criticisms are justified or they aren't. Why don't we all just concentrate on finding out which?......
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 21:56
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY
Terry, you use a very interesting word in your posts and that is "understand".

Where does your "understanding" come from? It will be from what you have been told or read by the BiaP team; in much the same way that Artemis and Boeing "understood" the flights to be solo, in much the same way that the press "understood" her flights to be solo, and the awards committees at various establishments also "understood" her to be flying solo.

I appreciate your attempts to defend her but please "understand" that the truth is not what you and your colleagues have been spoon-fed.

Take a while to read back through this thread, it will be worth it and will clear up any mis-understanding as to the root cause of it all.
"I understand" is something I know from a reliable source.
As an RAF person you should understand that!
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:02
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Jonzarno needs answers ASAP

I want evidence of the"Outreach Work"?
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:03
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno
In less than 1/4 hour since my last post we have enough new posts, including from Terry responding to criticisms, to hide the questions I asked.

Terry, please: can you commit to trying to get direct and open honest answers to my questions?

Everyone else: PLEASE can we keep the focus on these questions? Just slagging Ms Curtis-Taylor off will achieve nothing. Either we are maligning an innocent person or we are throwing out a cloud of criticism, much of it subjective, that makes it easy for the accused to "duck and cover".

Let's keep it simple, unemotional and factual. Either the criticisms are justified or they aren't. Why don't we all just concentrate on finding out which?......
I will if i can and if I see her, but I am not her spokesman nor do I see her vey often! Briefly at Cambridge Airport two weeks ago and then two weeks prior to that. Is there not a leader of this unruly pack who should apprach her in a measured and unemotional way? It's not my argument! I started out by trying to suggest that those who are posting should move on and give her some credit for her achievements , but it eems I have wasted my time. Hair shirts should be half price on Black Friday!

Originally Posted by Jay Sata
Jonzarno needs answers ASAP

I want evidence of the"Outreach Work"?
Ask her.
Why do you need evidence? We saw the visits to schools on her various posts on her way to Aus and since her return there have been more lectures and visits to schools.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:13
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Originally Posted by terry holloway
I will if i can and if I see her, but I am not her spokesman nor do I see her vey often! Briefly at Cambridge Airport two weeks ago and then two weeks prior to that. Is there not a leader of this unruly pack who should apprach her in a measured and unemotional way? It's not my argument! I started out by trying to suggest that those who are posting should move on and give her some credit for her achievements , but it eems I have wasted my time. Hair shirts should be half price on Black Friday!
Terry

I am anything but a leader of any pack; but if you want to put her in touch with me, you know where I am: please give her my contact details and I'll be happy to talk to her directly.

Last edited by Jonzarno; 25th Nov 2016 at 22:13. Reason: Typo
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:16
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Outreach?

They are what are called in the journo trade picture ops.

She had a photo or two alongside women enroute in much the same way tourists take pictures.

Outreach?

I still want concrete evidence on what she did to warrant a "framed address"?

How can I get one or indeed does Kirk qualify?

Will I get a Christmas card from Bird in a Biplane Ltd or indeed Tim Kelly Media in Aldershot.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:17
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Originally Posted by terry holloway
Ask her.
Why do you need evidence? We saw the visits to schools on her various posts on her way to Aus and since her return there have been more lectures and visits to schools.
...and I've told Jonzarnow that if I see her I will pose the questions. I don't know when that will be. In my response to him I suggested one of you should ask the questions to her in an unemotional way. That might be difficult beecause if she has been following your posts she won't be very friendly!!
It's not my argument. I don't need to justify the Air League awards, because they were properly and carefully judged. I started this conversation trying to persuade you to give her some credit and move on, because I srotumbled on the thread by chance because of Maurice Kirk. However, and in the face of amazing hostility from what I assume are fellow pilots of amazing ability wisdom and integrity, I fear I have failed!
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:23
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Another question for you Terry.

If Kirk gets to Cape Town will you give him an award for tenacity?

Just a couple of weeks since he left Somerset in the Cub!
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:25
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Originally Posted by terry holloway
...and I've told Jonzarnow that if I see her I will pose the questions. I don't know when that will be. In my response to him I suggested one of you should ask the questions to her in an unemotional way. That might be difficult beecause if she has been following your posts she won't be very friendly!!
It's not my argument. I don't need to justify the Air League awards, because they were properly and carefully judged. I started this conversation trying to persuade you to give her some credit and move on, because I srotumbled on the thread by chance because of Maurice Kirk. However, and in the face of amazing hostility from what I assume are fellow pilots of amazing ability wisdom and integrity, I fear I have failed!
Terry

With respect, I think that I have always asked these questions unemotionally. I have yet to receive any reply.....
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:25
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Terry Holloway has turned up, like several before him to defend Tracey Curtis-Taylor.

How does he do this?

By providing answers to the reasonable questions that have been asked several times in this thread? No.

By doing the contributors the courtesy of reading the evidence that they have put forward in the thread? No - in fact he seems to rejoice in his ignorance.

By providing any supporting evidence for his opinions? Nothing new that hasn't already been discredited.

What he does do - quite a lot, actually - is simply to insult those who have contributed to this thread - apparently we are "children" who "need to get a life", are an "unruly pack" of "zealots/hyenas" (I particularly object to that), and we are "hysterical", "uninformed", "toxic individuals" who "should know how to behave".

Well thank you Mr Holloway.

I would suggest that most of the above would appear to describe you rather better than it describes anyone I have seen contribute to this thread - and unlike you I have read every single post, and have verified the majority of it.

What this thread is about, for me, is a protest against the sort of person that believes that spouting untruths loudly enough and long enough makes them true; against the sort of apathetic society that believes its easier to just accept lies than stand up and say "that's wrong"; against the kind of people who believe that showering insults and threats when they are in the wrong is acceptable.

This may be a small point, but it is a big principle.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:28
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata
Outreach?

They are what are called in the journo trade picture ops.

She had a photo or two alongside women enroute in much the same way tourists take pictures.

Outreach?

I still want concrete evidence on what she did to warrant a "framed address"?

How can I get one or indeed does Kirk qualify?

Will I get a Christmas card from Bird in a Biplane Ltd or indeed Tim Kelly Media in Aldershot.
She has been given the award which was judged on what she achieved based on the nominations put to The Air League.
If a suitable nomination was put forward, and he is still alive and not in jail, I am certain that the Air League would consider an award for Maurice for his skill in getting to SA notwithstanding the means employed. He is currently posted as overdue/ missing again. The second time on two consecutive flights. He is probably asleep somewhere in the Kenyan bush!
I hope there will be a nomination for Colin Hales ( if upyou know who and where he is- I know who but currently not where!). Sam Rutherford also needs some recognition but someone has to write and submit the nomination to : Air League/ HCAP/RAeS/LAA/RAeC
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:34
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Originally Posted by Fly-by-Wife
Terry Holloway has turned up, like several before him to defend Tracey Curtis-Taylor.

How does he do this?

By providing answers to the reasonable questions that have been asked several times in this thread? No.

By doing the contributors the courtesy of reading the evidence that they have put forward in the thread? No - in fact he seems to rejoice in his ignorance.

By providing any supporting evidence for his opinions? Nothing new that hasn't already been discredited.

What he does do - quite a lot, actually - is simply to insult those who have contributed to this thread - apparently we are "children" who "need to get a life", are an "unruly pack" of "zealots/hyenas" (I particularly object to that), and we are "hysterical", "uninformed", "toxic individuals" who "should know how to behave".

Well thank you Mr Holloway.

I would suggest that most of the above would appear to describe you rather better than it describes anyone I have seen contribute to this thread - and unlike you I have read every single post, and have verified the majority of it.

What this thread is about, for me, is a protest against the sort of person that believes that spouting untruths loudly enough and long enough makes them true; against the sort of apathetic society that believes its easier to just accept lies than stand up and say "that's wrong"; against the kind of people who believe that showering insults and threats when they are in the wrong is acceptable.

This may be a small point, but it is a big principle.
I am sorry if you see those remarks as insults. That was not my intention. It was rather more a perhaps clumsy and careless use of words to what is clearly a hostile and anonymous audience. Other people have feelings too, and my intention was not to "defend her" as you suggest, but to ask that you give her credit for her achievements and move on. Clearly that's out of the question.....
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:36
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Originally Posted by terry holloway
She has been given the award which was judged on what she achieved based on the nominations put to The Air League.
If a suitable nomination was put forward, and he is still alive and not in jail, I am certain that the Air League would consider an award for Maurice for his skill in getting to SA notwithstanding the means employed. He is currently posted as overdue/ missing again. The second time on two consecutive flights. He is probably asleep somewhere in the Kenyan bush!
I hope there will be a nomination for Colin Hales ( if upyou know who and where he is- I know who but currently not where!). Sam Rutherford also needs some recognition but someone has to write and submit the nomination to : Air League/ HCAP/RAeS/LAA/RAeC
I've no idea who Tim Kelly is, and I have no dealings with other people's Christmas cards!
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:38
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata
Another question for you Terry.

If Kirk gets to Cape Town will you give him an award for tenacity?

Just a couple of weeks since he left Somerset in the Cub!
In another post to you I said make a nomination for Maurice. Two weeks to Kenya in a Cub is a bit slow.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:39
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno
Terry

With respect, I think that I have always asked these questions unemotionally. I have yet to receive any reply.....
To Tracey CT?
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:40
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If a suitable nomination was put forward, and he is still alive and not in jail, I am certain that the Air League would consider an award for Maurice for his skill in getting to SA notwithstanding the means employed. He is currently posted as overdue/ missing again. The second time on two consecutive flights. He is probably asleep somewhere in the Kenyan bush!
I hope there will be a nomination for Colin Hales ( if upyou know who and where he is- I know who but currently not where!). Sam Rutherford also needs some recognition but someone has to write and submit the nomination to : Air League/ HCAP/RAeS/LAA/RAeC
Now we are moving on Terry.

Colin Hales was in Thailand when I last heard a week ago. He went there for an air race.
His aircraft is parked in Japan.

Kirk deserves some sort of lifetime award .

Just a couple of weeks since he left Somerset in the Cub!
In another post to you I said make a nomination for Maurice. Two weeks to Kenya in a Cub is a bit slow.
Maurice has flown to Kenya from Somerset in two weeks in a Cub. I would suggest that is good going.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 26th Nov 2016 at 06:30.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 22:49
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"In another post to you I said make a nomination for Maurice. Two weeks to Kenya in a Cub is a bit slow".


I would imagine that MK would tell you to stick your award where the sun doesn't shine. As you know, he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Two weeks in a cub to Kenya - slow? What about 3 months from Cape to the UK in a Stearman? - supported all the way with a chase-plane for navigation.
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