Throw in the towel?
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Throw in the towel?
Hi my names pat and im currently completing my private pilot licence in Ireland, ive around nine to ten hours of flying completed, im completing my ppl in a local school where i live. Basically im writing this in hope of some advice with the situation im in. Recently my instructor has been getting quite frustrated with me during my lessons he constantly makes remarks on how i take so long to complete my walk arounds and my pre-flight inspections and paper work, he also makes remarks on how i find it difficult to do simple mental mathematical calculations in my head. Ive tried to block out the negative criticism but recently it has really started to bug me, i sometimes dread to turn up for my lesson becouse of it. Due to the bad weather during the summer i haven't been flying as frequent as i would of liked to, i usually get to do a lesson once every 3 weeks due to weather and work commitments and collage. I really do enjoy flying and i am really enthusiastic to learn, but the constant comments on my errors every lesson is really starting to bug me. He also made remarks on how slow its taking for me to catch onto things and that i should really rethink if completing my ppl is a good idea. So basically im asking ye guys out there for some advice for the situation im in, should i stick with it and not give up or should i take the advice from in instructor in throw in the towel!
thanks
thanks
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It is a bit difficult to comment properly as we cannot really know how you are doing from your post. I would suggest a change of instructor and see how you get on then. If it is the instructors fault or yours, quite often a different instructors approach can change things.
Certainly I know that anyone learning to fly leaves 75% of their brain behind when they arrive at the airfield! but I would expect any experienced instructor to be aware of and allowing for that, someone less experienced might get frustrated, but I would say if this is the case this will be happening with many of that instructors students - have you spoken to them?
10 Hours is not far into the course and it would be a shame to give up this early.
Certainly I know that anyone learning to fly leaves 75% of their brain behind when they arrive at the airfield! but I would expect any experienced instructor to be aware of and allowing for that, someone less experienced might get frustrated, but I would say if this is the case this will be happening with many of that instructors students - have you spoken to them?
10 Hours is not far into the course and it would be a shame to give up this early.
Last edited by foxmoth; 3rd Sep 2014 at 22:08.
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Hi Pat,
Not quite enough information to provide you with an objective opinion. That said, negativity is never nice, and should be avoided as much as possible. Sometimes, in a carefully planned way it helps - it's memorable. I certainly remember being "told" a few times by instructors over the years.
In my opinion, you have to have a chat with your instructor. Be prepared to take some relevant criticism, and be gracious when it comes. But state your unwillingness to accept meaningless criticism, or negativity. PPL training is serious business, but should be fun and positive too.
If you have specific examples of something which is disagreeable to you, put it forth, and perhaps commenters here will have thoughts. Be prepared for honest opinions though!
Not quite enough information to provide you with an objective opinion. That said, negativity is never nice, and should be avoided as much as possible. Sometimes, in a carefully planned way it helps - it's memorable. I certainly remember being "told" a few times by instructors over the years.
In my opinion, you have to have a chat with your instructor. Be prepared to take some relevant criticism, and be gracious when it comes. But state your unwillingness to accept meaningless criticism, or negativity. PPL training is serious business, but should be fun and positive too.
If you have specific examples of something which is disagreeable to you, put it forth, and perhaps commenters here will have thoughts. Be prepared for honest opinions though!
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Thanks for all the replies , just when I start the lesson with the instructor he watches my every move , even the most smallest things like where to put the checklist when finished with it , he watches and comments. I feel very under pressure when I'm with him almost as if he's waiting for me to mess up so that he can comment on it . I can honestly say I'm a good pilot when I'm at the controls I'm not nervous I'm relatively confident and for such a gap between lessons I'm not that rusty . It's just simple things like basic mathematical sums in my head i have difficulty with, I've always been fearful with maths and I always tried to not let it bother me with my flying , but if an instructor is commenting about it after each lesson you tend to louse confidence in your self .
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Pat,
Obviously, as others have stated, such situations are hard to judge objectively in a forum like this with one side of the story heard.
But nevertheless: I don't see how it is some instructor's call to judge whether you're learning too slow and should just leave it - and I find it unprofessional of an instructor to imply this.
That's entirely your call and you need to be happy with your progress or even with flying in general! It's not so much about getting there (to the license) as fast as possible. As long as you're enjoying flying (with an instructor to your right or not), everything is fine!
I believe some of the best pilots out there have taken their time to learn their craft.
And I'd suggest to change the instructor, too. You're obviously not quite on the same page.
Obviously, as others have stated, such situations are hard to judge objectively in a forum like this with one side of the story heard.
But nevertheless: I don't see how it is some instructor's call to judge whether you're learning too slow and should just leave it - and I find it unprofessional of an instructor to imply this.
That's entirely your call and you need to be happy with your progress or even with flying in general! It's not so much about getting there (to the license) as fast as possible. As long as you're enjoying flying (with an instructor to your right or not), everything is fine!
I believe some of the best pilots out there have taken their time to learn their craft.
And I'd suggest to change the instructor, too. You're obviously not quite on the same page.
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PatRyan
CHANGE THE INSTRUCTOR!! Its your hard earned money that pays him money not the other way around.
Frankly he has no rights to be so picky with such a low time student and will not bring the best out of you with that attitude.
One day soon you will be flying alone with no instructor and you then have to be PIC and make the decisions.
like in any walk of life there are some people we get on with and are compatible with and others we clash with and who do not bring the best out of us.
Chang instructors to someone you do like and feel comfortable with and if he then notes the same problems you may have some work to do but my guess is this instructor has an attitude problem with you
CHANGE THE INSTRUCTOR!! Its your hard earned money that pays him money not the other way around.
Frankly he has no rights to be so picky with such a low time student and will not bring the best out of you with that attitude.
One day soon you will be flying alone with no instructor and you then have to be PIC and make the decisions.
like in any walk of life there are some people we get on with and are compatible with and others we clash with and who do not bring the best out of us.
Chang instructors to someone you do like and feel comfortable with and if he then notes the same problems you may have some work to do but my guess is this instructor has an attitude problem with you
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It's just simple things like basic mathematical sums in my head i have difficulty with
when I start the lesson with the instructor he watches my every move
I feel very under pressure when I'm with him almost as if he's waiting for me to mess up
With Checks / Checklists there are:
1) Learning the sequence of any checks/required actions
2) Learning what you are actually checking/actioning
3) Learning how to interpret the results of any check/confirm any actions
1) and 2) all require repetition to learn and take time and practice.
3) requires some understanding of how an aeroplane works/flies.
Most students learning to fly start with zero understanding of how an aeroplane works. Which means they rely totally on a 'Check List' to 'tell' them what to do and are effectively just learning 1) - with 2) and 3) coming later.
The sequences are in a particular order (usually) for a very good reason and I would expect an Instructor to be quite pedantic about this (the sequence) to help the student learn it and to prevent bad habits developing.
However lots of praise for getting items correct is called for - not just concentrating on the negatives.
People learn better from making their own mistakes, but this is not always safe in flying.
EG: Mixture to Rich omitted prior to engine start - Great
Carb. Heat not confirmed Set to Cold just before Take Off - Not Good.
Personally, I think every new student should be told to learn Aircraft General Knowledge and Theory of Flight right from the start of the course - even if these are not the exams they will sit first.
patryan,
You should ask your Instructor for a ground lesson on 'Checks' as the better you understand what you are looking for, and why, the less likely you will be to make any mistakes.
even the most smallest things like where to put the checklist when finished with it
EG: If just before Take Off the Check List must not be where it could get in the way (of controls), nor where it could be a distraction (on the 'Dashboard' where it could fall off)
Caveat: As other Posters have said, it could just be that your Instructor is a Numpty whose style does not mesh with your personality - find out by speaking to him about it.
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dear pat ryan:
Ask yourself one question: are you of average or above average intelligence?
IF THE ANSWER IS YES >>>>GET A NEW INSTRUCTOR RIGHT AWAY.
IF you feel you are below average intelligence, HOW CAN YOU BE USING A COMPUTER? ;-)
Get a new instructor. I've been around for quite awhile and I have seen it all. While I have not instructed in Ireland, I will tell you this. Taking time for a walk around inspection means you are being thorough and looking for understanding in all of the new world of aviation and planes.
This instructor sounds like he likes to put you down, to elevate himself.
And, since you are new to flying, I hope you go out and BUY "Stick And Rudder" and read it 10 times over!
Good Luck to you.
Ask yourself one question: are you of average or above average intelligence?
IF THE ANSWER IS YES >>>>GET A NEW INSTRUCTOR RIGHT AWAY.
IF you feel you are below average intelligence, HOW CAN YOU BE USING A COMPUTER? ;-)
Get a new instructor. I've been around for quite awhile and I have seen it all. While I have not instructed in Ireland, I will tell you this. Taking time for a walk around inspection means you are being thorough and looking for understanding in all of the new world of aviation and planes.
This instructor sounds like he likes to put you down, to elevate himself.
And, since you are new to flying, I hope you go out and BUY "Stick And Rudder" and read it 10 times over!
Good Luck to you.
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Pat,
Your instructor is there to do: Keep you safe, Teach and promote learning, and Inspire and mentor. If you're feeling put down, element three is totally lost, and element two is probably threatened. NOt everyone is grat all the time, and we all make allowances, but on average, you should feel inspired and positive about the experience.
You should never hear: What the **** did you do that for?!?", but do expect to hear: "Well, that could have worked out better, let me show you how." But for every one "that coulda worked out better, you should hope to hear several "Well done"s.
I just finished an hour of marine training with two firefighters. I told them both: "If you're unhappy with the train I just gave, tell me. If you're happy, tell the Training Captain" (who is actually my daughter). Would your instructor encourage you to discuss your satisfaction with the training? If not, why not?
Be the bigger person, and talk to your instructor. If you do not leave that conversation in agreement, yup, it's probably time for a new instructor, if that's a choice for you. Remind yourself that some instructors are very new too, probably with very little personality training - not that that's an excuse....
Your instructor is there to do: Keep you safe, Teach and promote learning, and Inspire and mentor. If you're feeling put down, element three is totally lost, and element two is probably threatened. NOt everyone is grat all the time, and we all make allowances, but on average, you should feel inspired and positive about the experience.
You should never hear: What the **** did you do that for?!?", but do expect to hear: "Well, that could have worked out better, let me show you how." But for every one "that coulda worked out better, you should hope to hear several "Well done"s.
I just finished an hour of marine training with two firefighters. I told them both: "If you're unhappy with the train I just gave, tell me. If you're happy, tell the Training Captain" (who is actually my daughter). Would your instructor encourage you to discuss your satisfaction with the training? If not, why not?
Be the bigger person, and talk to your instructor. If you do not leave that conversation in agreement, yup, it's probably time for a new instructor, if that's a choice for you. Remind yourself that some instructors are very new too, probably with very little personality training - not that that's an excuse....
I am sure that he sees things differently, but that does not really matter. This instructor has an approach that isn't working for you. Get a different instructor.
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Indeed - sounds like you need another instructor. You have given it a good try with this one, and it isn't working. It is sometimes the case that the personalities of student and instructor do clash in some way - and your description of his style is one that would make me go nuts too.
You are the customer. If it isn't working it is the instructor who is failing, not you - so don't be embarrassed to face this issue as you would any other in which you are not getting what you expected when you bought something.
You are the customer. If it isn't working it is the instructor who is failing, not you - so don't be embarrassed to face this issue as you would any other in which you are not getting what you expected when you bought something.
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Hello Pat!
Now I wonder if this mucho macho instructor could be ex-military? Sometimes these chaps forget just who is paying for the flying instruction, namely YOU (and not the government).
I've had a lot of instructors because I started flying at 50,so made slow progress. You are starting young, and some types feel they can pick on youngsters. I was a bit more experienced and so if I didn't like the attitude of the bossy type I ditched him and got somebody else. You might think of taking a holiday in the UK or the USA for a week or two and spending the entire time doing your training....because the best way to learn is to go on a concentrated week or 2 week course, then you don't slip back as one does when you go say once every 2 or 3 weeks. However, NEVER PAY UP FRONT ALL AT ONCE! Flying clubs have a tendency to go bust and there goes your money as well....
Ireland is a problem because your weather is even worse than ours; England in the midlands would be best, say Wellesborne, or similar.
Or you could come gliding with us at Shenington Gliding Club! more fun and cheaper than power.
Now I wonder if this mucho macho instructor could be ex-military? Sometimes these chaps forget just who is paying for the flying instruction, namely YOU (and not the government).
I've had a lot of instructors because I started flying at 50,so made slow progress. You are starting young, and some types feel they can pick on youngsters. I was a bit more experienced and so if I didn't like the attitude of the bossy type I ditched him and got somebody else. You might think of taking a holiday in the UK or the USA for a week or two and spending the entire time doing your training....because the best way to learn is to go on a concentrated week or 2 week course, then you don't slip back as one does when you go say once every 2 or 3 weeks. However, NEVER PAY UP FRONT ALL AT ONCE! Flying clubs have a tendency to go bust and there goes your money as well....
Ireland is a problem because your weather is even worse than ours; England in the midlands would be best, say Wellesborne, or similar.
Or you could come gliding with us at Shenington Gliding Club! more fun and cheaper than power.
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Teaching people to fly is as much about teaching decision making and confidence in the aviation environment as it is about teaching the mechanical skills of controlling the aircraft.
Clearly the instructor is not communicating these "soft" skills in positive way for you, perhaps you need to look as yourself and ask if you are being over sensitive to his critical observations and comments, only then can you decide if it is time to change instructor.
Clearly the instructor is not communicating these "soft" skills in positive way for you, perhaps you need to look as yourself and ask if you are being over sensitive to his critical observations and comments, only then can you decide if it is time to change instructor.
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If there is an instructor behaving like this, I would put this in the learning bucket.
When talking to the instructor is not coming to a change (crew management first), then a clear word with the ATO is needed (flightschool management second) and most probably a change of instructor is advisable.
When flying, you have to deal with such situations, BUT they should not appear so early in training and especially not at PPL level and not by reason of your instructor. Yes, one part of the training is to be able to say "shut up, let my fly the machine" to the instructor, but usually at the end of the training.
When talking to the instructor is not coming to a change (crew management first), then a clear word with the ATO is needed (flightschool management second) and most probably a change of instructor is advisable.
When flying, you have to deal with such situations, BUT they should not appear so early in training and especially not at PPL level and not by reason of your instructor. Yes, one part of the training is to be able to say "shut up, let my fly the machine" to the instructor, but usually at the end of the training.
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Any instructor who undermines the confidence of a student to the point where the student finds it necessary to ask for advice on the subject is, in my opinion, worse than useless.
My advice, ditch the instructor, complain to the CFI, go somewhere else to train. You will become a nervous wreck otherwise.
You are paying good money for a service, you deserve to receive what you pay for.
My advice, ditch the instructor, complain to the CFI, go somewhere else to train. You will become a nervous wreck otherwise.
You are paying good money for a service, you deserve to receive what you pay for.
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Hi Pat,
Firstly i would say scrap the instructor, and find a new one with the patience and decency to help you along the course at your pace! Secondly dont bring yourself down worrying about your maths skills or anything like that, I personally have just short of 14 hours in my logbook and i cant think of any maths i have been asked to do. Additionally dont take critisism from him on your maths. Everybody has different abillities when it comes to mental sums and what gives him the right to comment on your abillities in such a way.
If you are at the point where you are not enjoying going flying something needs to change. Its not going to be you, over time you will develop your maths, your speed with checklists etc, but for now your instructor needs to change. Because by the sound of it he is there for the £££ more than wanting to help a determind student pilot grasp the world of aviation!
Ditch the instructor and enjoy flying once again; at YOUR OWN PACE, not the instructors.
Firstly i would say scrap the instructor, and find a new one with the patience and decency to help you along the course at your pace! Secondly dont bring yourself down worrying about your maths skills or anything like that, I personally have just short of 14 hours in my logbook and i cant think of any maths i have been asked to do. Additionally dont take critisism from him on your maths. Everybody has different abillities when it comes to mental sums and what gives him the right to comment on your abillities in such a way.
If you are at the point where you are not enjoying going flying something needs to change. Its not going to be you, over time you will develop your maths, your speed with checklists etc, but for now your instructor needs to change. Because by the sound of it he is there for the £££ more than wanting to help a determind student pilot grasp the world of aviation!
Ditch the instructor and enjoy flying once again; at YOUR OWN PACE, not the instructors.
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Another vote for change the instructor, its not on, or professional for someone in authority to be belittling at any stage of your flying training, let alone at the beginning. And you are their customer, they should want to keep you. You arent (it seems) in the RAF and being demanded by an employer to reach a certain standard in x hours.
I know someone in their 50's who completed their PPL in something like 200 hours. OK, thats way above the national averages, but he was enjoying the training, he wasnt particuarly quick to learn, and although his instructor was a pretty tough cookie, the instructor made personal allowances for his student, and got him successfully through the PPL. Both were happy, and you should be happy.
I know someone in their 50's who completed their PPL in something like 200 hours. OK, thats way above the national averages, but he was enjoying the training, he wasnt particuarly quick to learn, and although his instructor was a pretty tough cookie, the instructor made personal allowances for his student, and got him successfully through the PPL. Both were happy, and you should be happy.