Females only!

[mary meagher]

Dear Hannah, the proportion of male to female responses to your original request discloses quite clearly the proportion of male to female pilots in this forum.....we've even smoked out a couple of willywavers to add a bit of spice!

Apologies for being pedantic, but Adam, "breaking" is modern, "braking", according to the OED, is archaic, also molds is American spelling, Brits spell it with a "u".....

And I'm sure Cockney Steve meant to type needlework instead of neddlework...but some people just like to neddle....(meddle?).......

[Pace]

I used to fly a bread and butter run into the London Area in a twin prop.
This routed me down over Brize.
I would fly FL75 till Brize and once over the BZ drop under CAS.

An observation the male ATC guys used to let me stay at FL75 till over BZ and then would advise me to descend to remain clear of CAS.

The female ATC controllers always would advice me to descend 20 miles before BZ seeming concerned that I would run into CAS

I think the female tends to be more cautious which is not a bad thing but not all of them
We used to have a female pilot who rode to the airfield on a hot Ducatti motorbike dressed in tight matching leather she also was into aerobatics big time.
So while we may generalize people are unique and different.
I know some wimpy male pilots

Pace

[mad_jock]

What do you mean know, you are when it comes to white runways

[Flyingmac]

I've had a female instructor scream loudly during some mild aeros.
Never had a bloke do it.

Spins produced the most decibels.

[BabyBear]

Originally Posted by Adam Frisch

I've had much better luck with female instructors during my training days than anything else.

Really!!

BB

[mary meagher]

Richard Westnot, your recommendations of tottie in a cockpit would seem to indicate you are somewhat juvenile and short of actual experience....

[cockney steve]

Well spotted Mary...just me being a thick (fingered) neddy
In my book.
"breaking"= damaging/rendering imperfect

" Braking " + using brakes to slow down/ the act of retardation.

(or should that be "the act of becoming a retard)

Endorse/Like what Silvaire posted first class!

[Richard Westnot]

mary meagher - thank you for your input and I do love reading your posts by the way

I have purely added a link with females in the cockpit (or tottie as you say)

Do I find it juvenile ? Not really, it is probably what one would expect in a man's world where woman seem to enjoy participating.

Have I given any recommendations ? I don't think that I have, but since you ask, it would be the blonde sitting in the LHS.

Lets not get into the experience bit on a public forum

[Pace]

What do you mean know, you are when it comes to white runways

MJ

You maybe a hairy chested all male bravado sporting a kilt and running full pelt through thorn bushes but ???
Anyway its only snow I dont like the cold

Pace

[ChampChump]

I've only experienced one mild bit of gender bias, many years ago, at a gliding club where the winch driver decided that females 'could just about hack a circuit'.

Since then, I've had no impression that I've been treated differently, given fewer or more advantages than a chap and as someone said earlier, the only significant fact is that one does tend to be remembered more, as one of the minority. Being a woman who owns an aeroplane that has a tailwheel means I'm apparently slightly more memorable than some other pilots, which is not necessarily a good thing.

All of this may be skewed by the fact that one meets the nicest people at airfields and strips. Rephrase that: ...airfields and airstrips.

There are more than the average number of female pilots hereabouts (Kent), but I doubt we'd reach consensus on why there aren't more overall. FWIW I think all those I know are working and childless.

If a non-flyer in conversation about flying (I'm no better than anyone else - obsessed) says to me 'Oh, aren't you lucky!' I agree, because I am, but do stress that for most of us, it's about making choices: how you spend your money and time.

[Barcli]

I married mine 22 years ago ( female instructor)

[ericferret]

Better half flew her 150 solo to Morocco (nice article in Pilot a few years ago).
On landing she was confronted by local ground staff demanding to know where the "Pilot" was.

Mind you they have a slightly different mentality down there.


There is an organisation AWE - Aviation and Women in Europe :: The main resource for aviation and women in Europe which has profiles on a lot of females working in aviation and other information.

[DiamondC]

There are quite a few industries that are male-dominated, such as investment banking (which I currently work in to pay for my flying).

It's true that there are some people who have issues with women, but often they have issues with anyone who is different from them. So get along with them if necessary for work, avoid them otherwise

Overall my experience is that if you do your job well then nobody defines you by your gender (or nationality, age, or any of the categories that can be used). If you go out there thinking you are different and you are going to be have issues as a result, you probably will.

[ExSp33db1rd]

A little over 20 years ago I was flying from Los Angeles to the home base of the South East Asia Airline that I then worked for, and was asked if I could allow a flight deck visit ?

A man and women appeared, him a newly unemployed pilot following the demise of Eastern in the USA, going for an interview for an advertised job vacancy. I asked her if she was looking forward to her holiday with her companion ? No holiday she said, I'm going to be your airlines first woman pilot. She was currently a stewardess but had commercial pilot experience as well, including time on Hercules for Air America - as was.

I suggested that our first woman pilot would eventually be one of the country's Air Force pilots - of which there were currently none - and also directly related to the then President ( corruption in South East Asia ? wash your mouth out ) but wished her luck and invited them to join my wife and I for dinner before they returned to the USA.

I also asked if the airline realised that she was female, her having a masculine sounding name ( that I now forget ).

Following evening they appeared at our house. The man had been offered a job on the spot, but the women denied employment on the grounds of gender. She said that she could sue them back in the States, where the airline had advertised as an Equal Opportunity Employer, but, she said, I'd fail my first simulator check, wouldn't I ?

Sadly she had it correctly sussed out. Later the airline Personnel Mgr. admitted to me that they hadn't realised that she was female, due to her name, otherwise she wouldn't have even been granted an interview.

Maybe things have changed there now ? ( but I doubt it )

I've absolutely no difficulty with women being pilots, or equal opportunity with regard to work and pay, and since retiring I've had a few women as students, and I truly wouldn't be able to differentiate between the sexes with regard to ability, but men need time with only men, just as women need time as all girls together, and I found the flight deck just such an occasion, where we could engage in like chat about cars, or central heating, or even discuss the girls down the back ! ( the 3 S'ss - Sex, Salary and Sentral Heating as it was known in my days ) and I think that I would have find myself somewhat inhibited on those long, boring night flights over the Atlantic, and denied the easy bonhomie of being lads together without having to consider the sensibilities of a female in close proximity. ( and yes I know that there are some women who can be as down and dirty as the grossest Locker Room group - but that's not the point )

Don't know, never had the pleasure.

[Hannah222]

Thanks for the replys, I'm glad people have opinions on it! Mary, and others who agree, is it really not possible to have children and fly? Short haul flights, living close to the airfield, dad who has a steady job (not shifts) etc. I'm sure it could work and really, whats so bad with daycare centres and childminders- my parents have worked full time since I was born.
As for the person who wanted numbers, about 6% of commercial pilots are women today and for this to rise by 1 percent means only 420 women need a license. But with 70 % of women dropping out 1,400 women must start training. This was 2 years ago and still no change.
The fact women just aren't interested is a good point and maybe its true? But is that because little girls are always pink, with dolls and 'pushed' towards 'girl' jobs so a pilot was never an option? I remember being about 10 on a plane and dad asked if I would be an air hostess and I said no, it's just like being a waitress! He never asked if I would like to be a pilot.

[mad_jock]

Hannah some times its actually women in the industry which are the problem.

Occassionally in one job I had we had work experence kids coming into the office about 16-17.

I came back in from the morning shift to find one poor girl in ops reading a cabin crew manual waiting for the chief Hostie to pitch up. I finished up my paper work and started chating to her. Turned out that the woman who was sorting them out in ops had pushed her into the office with ops and the boy that she was with got sent out to the hangar.

After a couple of questions I found out that she wanted to be a pilot. So gave her a tour of the hangar and aircraft then took her as a second pair of eyes for a taxi for an engine run for the engineers in the FO's seat and although paper work she was the scribe for the data sheet for the engine runs.

Seemed to enjoy herself and a week later she turned up with her dad for a trial flight at the local school which I did. Don't know if she took it all the way to commercial.

[ChampChump]

With regard to the pink element of childhood, I do find myself groaning as Lego produces pastel colours and beauty salons; this has to be the result of extensive and expensive market research. The little princess 'culture' doesn't seem to be changing at all.

I was a wimpy girl, but enjoyed playing with my brother's Meccano when he'd let me. Had we been given woodwork and metalwork lessons at school, I'd have been a great deal better at many things now, I'm sure. There may be a better balance at school now, but the commercial influences outside school are greater too.

[mary meagher]

Hello again, Hannah, nice to have your feedback. You mention that both your parents worked fulltime since the day you were born, and that you see no problem with daycare centres and childminders. A mother and father would have to have very good jobs indeed to manage to pay for professional child care for more than one kid, for a start.

I had my four children early while still in my 20's....in those days we could manage on one salary. And when first husband traded me in for a younger model, I had as well some foster children....so I was in the childcare industry as a professional parent! and did if I do say so a better job looking after them than their natural mother.

Too many women now find themselves stuck on the professional ladder - any profession, either postponing a family until pregnancy can be difficult to achieve without IVF, or limiting themselves to one child only, which is then farmed out, not really ideal. So after the kids were all in school, off I went down the M40 to the gliding club; because I could get there midweek, instructors and gliders were more freely available in schooltime! Solo in 3 months, cross country the following summer, and after that, the PPL, with a real advantage as less flying time was required with a gliding Silver C.

If you want to fly, you could do worse than a day course at my club, Shenington, which would be a good start; we have a couple of girls your age, who will be high flyers in every sense. And for your research, our tugmaster is a respected power instructor; this fits nicely round her existing family life. Several other women are gliding instructors.

But in my post that caused favourable comment, I pointed out the shortcomings of being an airline pilot. That is a job that is not easy to line up with being a good mother.

And the pilot's uniforms, in United Airlines at any rate, look truly dreadful on the women.

[FlyingLapinou]

I pointed out the shortcomings of being an airline pilot. That is a job that is not easy to line up with being a good mother.

Equally, I wonder how easy it is to line up with being a good father?

Hannah, you are young, the world is truly your oyster. Work hard, very hard, and make your own opportunities. Seek advice, but make your own decisions. Don't be swayed by other people's expectations. Don't be afraid to go after what you want. Good luck to you

[ExSp33db1rd]

Equally, I wonder how easy it is to line up with being a good father?

Precisely. One always misses the school fete, where son wins Gold in the Egg and Spoon race, and the birthdays, and doesn't know if he will be able to play Father Christmas ( Oops ! you do believe in Father Christmas, don't you ?) until Boxing Day - when you know now that you did, the "standby" phone didn't ring at the wrong time.

Still, my two sons are successfully earning far more than I did at their age - and I don't mean just because of inflation, they have better paid jobs, and job security, than an Airline Captain - so I must have done something right.

Also - I always thought that the job was a marriage saver, one got away from each other for short spells, which can be good, if not necessary (!) and homecoming was often like a new Honeymoon. Sadly - the other side of the coin is "Whilst The Cats' Away, The Mice Do Play" - but don't start me on that.