German Wings A##hole
Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus.
Does it occur to any of you that you may be delaying a couple of hundred+ passengers? Several hundred if the knock-on effect of a missed slot means that the whole integration for the day goes down the tubes.
We are used to the aviation ignorance of the travelling public but it is rather worrying if those involved in a professional capacity have so little understanding of the other guy's problems.
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scotbill,
What I actually said was this;
Note the smiley on the end, if you're going to quote me, please do so properly and ideally in context. That comment was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, hence the "wink".
In my particular instance, as we'd passed the last opportunity to pull-off and let the B737 by, we did speed up as much as we safely could. It didn't really bother me too much at the time, although I did think their attitude was bad. They could have politely asked if the light aircraft ahead could speed up if it was causing them a problem, but no, we got some arsey complaining. We did use it as a learning point for the student, not to be pressured into doing things they're not comfortable with due to ability and/or experience, I only mentioned it now as it's relevant to the OPs situation.
What I actually said was this;
Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus. 
In my particular instance, as we'd passed the last opportunity to pull-off and let the B737 by, we did speed up as much as we safely could. It didn't really bother me too much at the time, although I did think their attitude was bad. They could have politely asked if the light aircraft ahead could speed up if it was causing them a problem, but no, we got some arsey complaining. We did use it as a learning point for the student, not to be pressured into doing things they're not comfortable with due to ability and/or experience, I only mentioned it now as it's relevant to the OPs situation.
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So this guy turns up in Barcelona and has not done his homework, aka looked up the jeppcharts etc and then thinks its his right to crawl on the apron at turtle speed?
Gimme a break, these guys are used as examples why GA shouldnīt be allowed to go places like Barcelona. Which is quite easy to taxi on btw. out of GA parking, right turn, parallel to 25 R until the end , 2 left turns until past the new terminal then right again and then left towards the head of 25L.
Not exactly rocket science.
And the weather was just fine:
LEBL 221000Z 33011KT 280V010 CAVOK 16/08 Q1025 NOSIG
LEBL 220900Z 32008KT 300V360 CAVOK 14/08 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220830Z 33011KT 300V010 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220800Z 32007KT 290V350 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220730Z 33006KT 290V360 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220700Z 31009KT 280V360 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1023 NOSIG
LEBL 220630Z 32007KT 290V350 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1023 NOSIG
So, you forgot your halfframes or what?
A real big airplanes pilot as you claim to have been would tell ATC/Ground when lost on the field....you did not, did you?
Gimme a break, these guys are used as examples why GA shouldnīt be allowed to go places like Barcelona. Which is quite easy to taxi on btw. out of GA parking, right turn, parallel to 25 R until the end , 2 left turns until past the new terminal then right again and then left towards the head of 25L.
Not exactly rocket science.
And the weather was just fine:
LEBL 221000Z 33011KT 280V010 CAVOK 16/08 Q1025 NOSIG
LEBL 220900Z 32008KT 300V360 CAVOK 14/08 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220830Z 33011KT 300V010 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220800Z 32007KT 290V350 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220730Z 33006KT 290V360 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220700Z 31009KT 280V360 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1023 NOSIG
LEBL 220630Z 32007KT 290V350 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1023 NOSIG
So, you forgot your halfframes or what?
A real big airplanes pilot as you claim to have been would tell ATC/Ground when lost on the field....you did not, did you?
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Your Dudeness
I beg to differ about Barcelona, The place is not easy the first time you see it even after 30 min in the cruise looking at the Jepps.
A few years back in Detroit an aircraft took a wrong turn, the result was it entered runway and was hit by another aircraft traveling at high speed.
This guy taxing slowly was taking care NOT to make a mistake that could put people at risk, giving out over the radio is only likely to put undue pressure on someone and make them more likely to make a mistake.
I was once in the area of Kefalinia/Zakinthos area under procedural control, the pilot of a UK registered charter aircraft was continualy getting on at the controller for decsent. I was 1000ft below this guy going head to head and looking for a climb. Eventualy due to a high workload and persitent calls from the pilot the controler cleared the aircraft down!..................This was directly into my path.
I dont blame the controler for the mistake he was overloaded into making it by a guy who acted like he was the only aircraft in the sky.
Im sorry to say this your Dudeness I and a lot of other people know we make mistakes and so take a little time to ensure we avoid as many mistakes as we can, unfortunatly people like you who clearly don't make mistakes will just have to slow down for the rest of us.
A few years back in Detroit an aircraft took a wrong turn, the result was it entered runway and was hit by another aircraft traveling at high speed.
This guy taxing slowly was taking care NOT to make a mistake that could put people at risk, giving out over the radio is only likely to put undue pressure on someone and make them more likely to make a mistake.
I was once in the area of Kefalinia/Zakinthos area under procedural control, the pilot of a UK registered charter aircraft was continualy getting on at the controller for decsent. I was 1000ft below this guy going head to head and looking for a climb. Eventualy due to a high workload and persitent calls from the pilot the controler cleared the aircraft down!..................This was directly into my path.
I dont blame the controler for the mistake he was overloaded into making it by a guy who acted like he was the only aircraft in the sky.
Im sorry to say this your Dudeness I and a lot of other people know we make mistakes and so take a little time to ensure we avoid as many mistakes as we can, unfortunatly people like you who clearly don't make mistakes will just have to slow down for the rest of us.
mrmum
Think the irony was a probably a bit subtle for most of the posters on here but to be fair my comment was aimed more at the previous oxymoron:
How many GA pilots are aware -
That a commercial jet uses hundreds of kilos of fuel just to get to the holding point - even more if held up on the way?
That if the brakes heat up due to unnecessary braking it can be to the severe detriment of stopping ability in the event of an abandoned T/O close to VI?
Would have thought those might be important learning points for any student.
Think the irony was a probably a bit subtle for most of the posters on here but to be fair my comment was aimed more at the previous oxymoron:
But for most here commercial ops do not matter a monkeys. I think generally the GA community fare rather well with understanding the needs and priorities of the airlines as such like. Although...
That a commercial jet uses hundreds of kilos of fuel just to get to the holding point - even more if held up on the way?
That if the brakes heat up due to unnecessary braking it can be to the severe detriment of stopping ability in the event of an abandoned T/O close to VI?
Would have thought those might be important learning points for any student.
How many GA pilots are aware -
Would anyone expect the "crawler" to stop dead on the twy? Or take a turn into whatever sideground happened to show up, unannounced and uninstructed? Or should it have sounded "Barcelona Ground, alfa delta echo request taxiway excursion to evade Fritz pursuit?"
If the ground controller was happy, the airliner crew may have had reason for being unhappy; but I can't see their right to grumble, least of all to a fellow pilot trying her/his best.
@o/p: if we have saved you the bother and expense of a visit to any kind of doctor, by allowing you to vent your anger here, you could as well spend the quid with a round of drink at one of our numerous meetings. You will still have saved the bother.
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I will always do my best to conduct my flight or taxying with consideration for other pilots. But, if I'm not able to, for whatever reason - technical, safety, limit of ability, the outcome is just tough.
We all have an equal right to be there.
We all have an equal right to be there.
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I'm sure that most GA pilots are aware of some of the impacts of delays on commercial flights. But it's whether those pilots care about those impacts. It's not too difficult to find GA types who will gladly 'get in the way' just because they can. Thankfully I'm not one of these by the way 
Safety is of course number 1 priority in all manners of aircraft operation, and it is true that if someone has an issue with proceedings, it should be dealt with by contacting the controlling agency not directly to the offending aircraft. In this sense the slower aircraft would simply be following instructions, perhaps oblivious of the proximity of the monster up his chuff. Reminds me of the old BT slogan: it's good to talk!
Well said Jollyrog!
Safety is of course number 1 priority in all manners of aircraft operation, and it is true that if someone has an issue with proceedings, it should be dealt with by contacting the controlling agency not directly to the offending aircraft. In this sense the slower aircraft would simply be following instructions, perhaps oblivious of the proximity of the monster up his chuff. Reminds me of the old BT slogan: it's good to talk!
Well said Jollyrog!
We all have an equal right to be there.
And I say that as one who has spent hundreds of happy hours in little aeroplanes as well as Her Majesty's fleet. Some understanding of the other guy's problems makes for an easier life for all.
While I don't condone the pilot of a commercial jet making an issue of his displeasure on the R/T, how else is it to be made clear to some occasional visitor anxious to brandish his civil rights that he is being the proverbial ache in the fundament?
Obviously some of you have little concept of the time pressures many short haul commercial pilots operate under. Do you really think you should have equal status with a large jet with a slot time for take off?
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Reminds me of the time that I was on a 5 mile final at Bratislava in a puddle jumper and the controller asked me of if I could speed up for following traffic....to which I replied that I am on glideslope with 100% power ......
Or may be it was on the ILS in to Penang and the controller asked me to do a 360 in IMC so that the following commercial traffic could "overtake", obviously in "complete safety".
Sometimes we would like to get out of the way of the commercial traffic, but its either technically impossible or unsafe to do so....not because we are small minded numpties
Or may be it was on the ILS in to Penang and the controller asked me to do a 360 in IMC so that the following commercial traffic could "overtake", obviously in "complete safety".
Sometimes we would like to get out of the way of the commercial traffic, but its either technically impossible or unsafe to do so....not because we are small minded numpties
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While I don't condone the pilot of a commercial jet making an issue of his displeasure on the R/T, how else is it to be made clear to some occasional visitor anxious to brandish his civil rights that he is being the proverbial ache in the fundament?
Obviously some of you have little concept of the time pressures many short haul commercial pilots operate under. Do you really think you should have equal status with a large jet with a slot time for take off?
By the way the original post is about Barcelona. I believe that VFR isn't allowed into Barcelona, so this must have been an IFR flight. It too may have had a slot time.
As for beling late for the slot giving you priority, that's a bit like saying that the queue of traffic ahead of you at the traffic lights should get out of the way because you are late for a meeting.
Either operate faster next time, or have more realistic gaps between the slots.
Having said that, I've never refused to give way to someone who had was in a rush, and have often offered to give up my landing or take off place in the queue to help out someone else.
But in this case it appears that the pilot was the cause of the our overheating problems by using the wrong taxiing technique, and the cause of their own delay problems by using the wrong technique for getting ahead of the other aircraft.
Still, I have to wonder about the OP, if he got so worked up about it, that the anger is still there long after he landed again. Live and let live.
gcap
When you operate at big airports you have to be able to fit in or IMO you should not be there. Part of fitting in is not unnecessarily impeding other traffic, that is just good airmanship. Crawling along at a slow speed on the principal taxiway with a jet behind you is not IMO acceptable. If I was in the GermanWings AirBus I most definitely would have politely but firmly indicated that your low taxi speed was causing me a problem and that I needed you to speed up.
Bottom line was the German Wings pilot was indeed an A**hole for being rude on the radio and you exhibited poor situational awareness and poor airmanship by unnecessarily holding up operations at a major airport
Not a great day for either of you......
When you operate at big airports you have to be able to fit in or IMO you should not be there. Part of fitting in is not unnecessarily impeding other traffic, that is just good airmanship. Crawling along at a slow speed on the principal taxiway with a jet behind you is not IMO acceptable. If I was in the GermanWings AirBus I most definitely would have politely but firmly indicated that your low taxi speed was causing me a problem and that I needed you to speed up.
Bottom line was the German Wings pilot was indeed an A**hole for being rude on the radio and you exhibited poor situational awareness and poor airmanship by unnecessarily holding up operations at a major airport
Not a great day for either of you......
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Im sorry to say this your Dudeness I and a lot of other people know we make mistakes and so take a little time to ensure we avoid as many mistakes as we can, unfortunatly people like you who clearly don't make mistakes will just have to slow down for the rest of us.
Astonishing what you are able to read out of my post...
My point is: if you have doubts about your whereabouts and/or where to go, you ask ground control, you donīt just go slow on a major airport with loads of traffic.
Thats what I would have done. Plus I added the weather - which was fair - and commented on the fact that IMO LEBL taxi isnīt really that complicated when going out of the GA area. I have been there in the last 5 years maybe 6 times, so Iīm not a regular Iīd say.
To know roughly how to taxi is part of my flight preparation (10Ps &10-9ers- look at em, easily done in 5 minutes) Is that to much to ask?
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So I was taxiing out from general aviation at Barcelona this morning (22 Dec)
and having not been there since my Pan Am days, was taxiing slowly so as to not screw up. It was 0845 local, not busy and we were just being cautious when this German Wings a##hole complained about our taxi speed. He was right up our a##. He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes. I've taxied a lot of large airplanes, and the A-319 is not a big plane, so he was just being an a##hole, the hot brake thing just pissed me off. So......if you know anyone at German wings, and can determine who was flying that plane, tell him that GCAP thinks he's an a##hole.
and having not been there since my Pan Am days, was taxiing slowly so as to not screw up. It was 0845 local, not busy and we were just being cautious when this German Wings a##hole complained about our taxi speed. He was right up our a##. He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes. I've taxied a lot of large airplanes, and the A-319 is not a big plane, so he was just being an a##hole, the hot brake thing just pissed me off. So......if you know anyone at German wings, and can determine who was flying that plane, tell him that GCAP thinks he's an a##hole.
Now a lot of people on here jump to conclusion thinking: a german, he had to be rude - cause he is a german - and bought the perspective of the american(? PanAm...) superhero pilot that was lost on taxiing his airplane around, but elected not to tell anyone, instead crawled on the twy...
An A319 is not a big airplane says the superhero and he - naturally - has taxied around bigger ones. Yawn. He naturally can see the brake temp of the airplane taxiing behind him. And he is pissed off after being a moving barracade at a major airport....
What happens during LVPs with people showing such attitudes as GCAP has?
They just taxi as they please? (now Iīm jumping to a conclusion...)
BTW, I donīt care at all about GermanWings (which is a LH company).
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Reminds me of the time I had to taxi a 172 to the end of a 10,000ft runway. A short distance along I heard a really loud noise, looked around and saw that I was being closely followed by three ANG C-130s in a hurry. I suggested I pull over on the next available taxiway and let them pass, everyone agreed, they thanked me for doing so and everyone was happy.
Avoid imitations
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So many so angry about something all now in the past!
How professionally suited are these angry pilots? If they can get so worked up about something like this on the ground, which should have been sorted out with grace and good humour, how good are they under pressure in the air?
How professionally suited are these angry pilots? If they can get so worked up about something like this on the ground, which should have been sorted out with grace and good humour, how good are they under pressure in the air?
Gimme a break, these guys are used as examples why GA shouldnīt be allowed to go places like Barcelona.
Now, dear sir, you give me a break.
First of all, we do not know what kind of aircraft that was, but seeing that BCN is not VFR allowed, he was probably IFR and seeing that he posts from the US, I'd guess it was a biz jet. Banning all these from airports like BCN is not really a sensible thing to do, usually this kind of traffic means people with quite serious business in the places they fly to.
Secondly, it appears to me like the attitude of some of these so called professionals vs GA. Some of it may be justified if small GA pilots who are not up to speed screw up at large airports. Most of it isn't, but is utter "mine is bigger" behaviour.
Seen it happen many times that airline pilots file reports because they "had to wait" in front of the runway "because of a small **** landing/taking off!" against ATC. Well, ATC is not that stupid normally. But if they have not got the release for the airliner yet, why the hell not let a VFR out if the big guy has to wait anyhow? Or a small IFR who has to depart to the west if the airliner going to the east is not released?
I've been saying it quite outspokenly here at meetings many times, and I won't sit here quietly either. There IS space for everyone IF aviators around the world finally stop working against each other and give each other a bit of leeway rather than p!## every time you THINK someone steals your cheese. There is enough anti aviation folk out there which will take our freedoms slice by slice without fellow aviators trying to ban each other from what they presume their turf.
As far as German Wings are concerned, not had my own experience with them on the tarmac so far, but had some primadonna PIC behave not unlike this in a forum I frequent, to the point where we had to lock the guy out. Arrogance without end, ego larger than most people who fly much larger airplanes and don't need to show that they also "belong" in the big league.
Best regards
AN2 driver
I wasn't there, so obviously I don't know, however if the Germanwings pilot was polite and professional I doubt gcap would have made a point of venting on this forum................