German Wings A##hole
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German Wings A##hole
So I was taxiing out from general aviation at Barcelona this morning (22 Dec)
and having not been there since my Pan Am days, was taxiing slowly so as to not screw up. It was 0845 local, not busy and we were just being cautious when this German Wings a##hole complained about our taxi speed. He was right up our a##. He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes. I've taxied a lot of large airplanes, and the A-319 is not a big plane, so he was just being an a##hole, the hot brake thing just pissed me off. So......if you know anyone at German wings, and can determine who was flying that plane, tell him that GCAP thinks he's an a##hole.
Thank you
Rant over
and having not been there since my Pan Am days, was taxiing slowly so as to not screw up. It was 0845 local, not busy and we were just being cautious when this German Wings a##hole complained about our taxi speed. He was right up our a##. He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes. I've taxied a lot of large airplanes, and the A-319 is not a big plane, so he was just being an a##hole, the hot brake thing just pissed me off. So......if you know anyone at German wings, and can determine who was flying that plane, tell him that GCAP thinks he's an a##hole.
Thank you
Rant over
gcap - check Contact info: Germanwings call centre for the relevant contact number, then ask for the address to which you should refer comments regarding operational malpractice. The sort of bullying to which you refer is wholly unacceptable and prejudicial to flight safety.
It also provides negative advertising for the company, so they need to understand that the incident has been 'circulating the Internet'!
Some years ago I was checking a pilot who was subjected to similar bullying by a local operator (this was in a different continent). Fortunately ATC told the bully to STFU and our flight proceded normally.
It also provides negative advertising for the company, so they need to understand that the incident has been 'circulating the Internet'!
Some years ago I was checking a pilot who was subjected to similar bullying by a local operator (this was in a different continent). Fortunately ATC told the bully to STFU and our flight proceded normally.
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Having flown the all electric jet (A320) I can tell you that the idle speed of the engines results in a high taxi speed, if you ride the brakes they will overheat. If you use the correct technique and bring the aircraft almost to a stop and then release the brakes and let the aircraft accelerate and then repeat the process this will keep the brakes cool.
My guess is the guy was not handling the aircraft correctly (and or) he thinks his airline status makes him think all others should get out of his way. Hopefully his fleet manager will invite him for a hats on interview for his attitude alone.
A few months back I went to Barcelona for the first time in years and I was taxing slowly to be sure I was going the correct way, making a small mistake is embarrassing but if that mistake is a runway incursion is deadly, I can't help wondering if this guy would have taken this attitude with me when flying a 737.
My guess is the guy was not handling the aircraft correctly (and or) he thinks his airline status makes him think all others should get out of his way. Hopefully his fleet manager will invite him for a hats on interview for his attitude alone.
A few months back I went to Barcelona for the first time in years and I was taxing slowly to be sure I was going the correct way, making a small mistake is embarrassing but if that mistake is a runway incursion is deadly, I can't help wondering if this guy would have taken this attitude with me when flying a 737.
Last edited by A and C; 22nd Dec 2011 at 22:41.
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He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes.
Is riding brakes normal practice on "big" planes? I sure would not tolerate it on little ones!
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Silvaire1
Slow taxing is OK for small aircraft but it won't work with some jets, the high residual thrust sees to that!
The reason for the excess thrust is usually because the engine idle speed is determined by the minimum speed that the IDG or CSD ( the constant speed drive for the electrical gererators) will keep the generators on line.
I have described the recomended taxing technique above, you have to do this because you can't just taxi slowly without riding the brakes and that results in overheating.
The reason for the excess thrust is usually because the engine idle speed is determined by the minimum speed that the IDG or CSD ( the constant speed drive for the electrical gererators) will keep the generators on line.
I have described the recomended taxing technique above, you have to do this because you can't just taxi slowly without riding the brakes and that results in overheating.
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LHR terminal 5 to 27 threshold - 2 miles
taxi time - 40 minutes (clearly with all of the queued aircraft behind you rather than in front )!
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Scare bus taxi speed max 30kts. Brakes hot then brake fans on........ I would guess that the aircraft had not been on the ground for long having hammered the brakes on the previous landing (unnecessary with long runway..... bad technique)
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If you use the correct technique and bring the aircraft almost to a stop and then release the brakes and let the aircraft accelerate and then repeat the process this will keep the brakes cool.
I can imagine it's much more comfortable for everybody involved just to let the aircraft taxi at whatever speed the idle thrust delivers. Until that speed is too high for whatever turn you need to make, or confined area you need to enter, at which point you brake.
So I can understand the frustration of the Airbus crew when they ended up behind a slow GA plane. That they vented it via the radio is perhaps a bit unprofessional, but their frustration, IMO, is justified. Was there really no intersection that you could have entered to let them pass, or something like that?
"Never taxi an aircraft faster than a man can walk"
EHRD(ROTTERDAM/ROTTERDAM)
AGA B)01 AUG 2011 08:59 UTC C)PERM (A0770/11)
E) CAUTION ADVISED DURING TAXIING ON APRONS, INCLUDING TWY N AND Y.
MAX SPEED 15KT.
AGA B)01 AUG 2011 08:59 UTC C)PERM (A0770/11)
E) CAUTION ADVISED DURING TAXIING ON APRONS, INCLUDING TWY N AND Y.
MAX SPEED 15KT.
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On a related note, are there any official/legal guidelines as to taxi speed limits? Walking pace is obviously too slow if you have to taxi along a 3km runway, down a straight taxiway with no intersections. But on the other hand, at Tempelhof I've had to follow a follow-me car straight across the apron at Vs or thereabouts. Makes you pay attention to stick positions...
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The braking technique described by A and C is the same on the 737 so i guess boeing and airbus agree at least on that piece of operating a jet, or my company did try to get the same SOPs on all fleets which is of course possible.
However accelerating to the max recommended taxi speed of 30 kts and then smoothly braking almost to a stand still and then accelerating again is only possible if there is no one in front. If there is the a slow moving aircraft in front the acceleration intervall between braking becomes so short that it is pretty much the same as riding the brakes. Therefore extremely slow aircraft can be a real issue.
It would have been more professional of course to ask ATC for a way to overtake the slowpoke instead of venting like that. Even though BCN is pretty simple to taxi along if you made yourself familiar with the airport beforehand. An moving airport diagram with your own position of course helps in situational awareness but is not really needed.
However accelerating to the max recommended taxi speed of 30 kts and then smoothly braking almost to a stand still and then accelerating again is only possible if there is no one in front. If there is the a slow moving aircraft in front the acceleration intervall between braking becomes so short that it is pretty much the same as riding the brakes. Therefore extremely slow aircraft can be a real issue.
It would have been more professional of course to ask ATC for a way to overtake the slowpoke instead of venting like that. Even though BCN is pretty simple to taxi along if you made yourself familiar with the airport beforehand. An moving airport diagram with your own position of course helps in situational awareness but is not really needed.
Amazing lack of understanding of the problems of commercial aviation shown on this thread. Most European flights have a slot time to make - with the consequent risk of a delay measured in hours if it is missed. And, yes, sometimes it needs 30mph.
Quite frankly some of you sound like those who sit in the overtaking lane of motorways secure in the knowledge that you are doing close to the legal limit - so no-one has any right to attempt to overtake you.
Quite frankly some of you sound like those who sit in the overtaking lane of motorways secure in the knowledge that you are doing close to the legal limit - so no-one has any right to attempt to overtake you.
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Why did you have to follow him so fast? Couldn't you just slow down if you needed to?
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Another way of managing brake temps is asymmetric braking. Standard SOP on the B777.
Also, looking at the plate there are some parallel taxiways and lots of opportunities for intersection take offs.
gcap, were you cleared to taxi to the full length runway link and was your route next to a parallel? Does your a/c require the full length or could you have asked for/accepted an intersection take of?
SGC
Also, looking at the plate there are some parallel taxiways and lots of opportunities for intersection take offs.
gcap, were you cleared to taxi to the full length runway link and was your route next to a parallel? Does your a/c require the full length or could you have asked for/accepted an intersection take of?
SGC
Last edited by Sir George Cayley; 23rd Dec 2011 at 18:48.
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Scotbill
Quote:- Amazing lack of understanding of the problems of commercial aviation shown on this thread. Most European flights have a slot time to make - with the consequent risk of a delay measured in hours if it is missed
If an aircraft has a tight slot it is normal practice for ATC to get that aircraft to the holding point ASAP, a slow taxing aircraft can usualy be moved out of the way.
I have found when flying light aircraft around southern europe that some in commercial aviation have a "me first Im in a big jet" attitude and question controllers commands, this is usualy when the light aircraft gets a line up clearance ahead of jet (usualy the reason is that ATC can get the light aircraft away & clear of the jet climb out between jet movments.).
Seeing the whole plot from both sides is interesting, why did I get treated like a numpty by a guy a UK charter jet at Corfu ? You would think that you might get some respect in a UK registered SEP that far from home..........A real pity that after his outburst about about me being cleared to the hold before him he took three attempts to get the ATC clearance read back correct.
If an aircraft has a tight slot it is normal practice for ATC to get that aircraft to the holding point ASAP, a slow taxing aircraft can usualy be moved out of the way.
I have found when flying light aircraft around southern europe that some in commercial aviation have a "me first Im in a big jet" attitude and question controllers commands, this is usualy when the light aircraft gets a line up clearance ahead of jet (usualy the reason is that ATC can get the light aircraft away & clear of the jet climb out between jet movments.).
Seeing the whole plot from both sides is interesting, why did I get treated like a numpty by a guy a UK charter jet at Corfu ? You would think that you might get some respect in a UK registered SEP that far from home..........A real pity that after his outburst about about me being cleared to the hold before him he took three attempts to get the ATC clearance read back correct.
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Had a similar experience myself at Prestwick, student managed to land REALLY long on RWY31, so had to taxi all the way back down the parallel TWY R to the GA apron E. Ryanair called up for taxi and wanted RWY13 for departure (surprise
), refused by ATC, as the rest of the world was using the other end, so had to follow us all the way down Romeo, had a couple of whinges about taxi speed as we went. Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus. 
), refused by ATC, as the rest of the world was using the other end, so had to follow us all the way down Romeo, had a couple of whinges about taxi speed as we went. Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus.
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Amazing lack of understanding of the problems of commercial aviation shown on this thread.
...I think it'd be a fair shout to offer the larger carrier in front on one condition: that doing so wouldn't delay either departure (SEP incurring personal costs?). There are many options as previously mentioned above. As for the RT outburst, it's disgusting that anyone should have to encounter with this, especially from the professionals. The child in me would want to bite back and Captain Balls sat in the LHS would soon hear how intolerant I am of this
