Prior Permission Required
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Prior Permission Required
Whenever I've flown VFR cross country, I've always rang ahead in advance to be greeted with a brief of any unlikely approach procedures and the latest weather and conditions.
I was flying today, tuning into local frequencies just to keep a listen out for their circuits etc., whereupon G-XXXX requests PPR in the circuit to land.
Is it common to fly and just land at an airfield without PPR? I realise most airfields will publish such a need to ask, however I'm wondering how many ask before takeoff, if at all.
I was flying today, tuning into local frequencies just to keep a listen out for their circuits etc., whereupon G-XXXX requests PPR in the circuit to land.
Is it common to fly and just land at an airfield without PPR? I realise most airfields will publish such a need to ask, however I'm wondering how many ask before takeoff, if at all.
Quite a few airfields are happy for it to be done on RT, but arguably once you're in the circuit, you've really left it a little late. Sounds like somebody was making some political point or other.
G
G
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Depends where you're going and who you know.
With the instructor hat on, always request PPR for every airfield, or at least, try to get PPR - Gives the student an idea of what to expect.
With my "jolly" hat on, I know a number of airfields that'll take me with no issues at all with or without a call on the radio. But then, I do know who operates the airfield/strips and normally places I wouldn't take most students.
With the instructor hat on, always request PPR for every airfield, or at least, try to get PPR - Gives the student an idea of what to expect.
With my "jolly" hat on, I know a number of airfields that'll take me with no issues at all with or without a call on the radio. But then, I do know who operates the airfield/strips and normally places I wouldn't take most students.
Always wondered what the "prior" refers to. Prior to take-off? To joining the circuit?
For those thinking it ridiculous: the one time I had NOT called before take-off, I found the place rented out for some commercial event and the runway cluttered with booths and people. Of course I had a plan B, there was never a real problem, but I had no plan C so I was on the lucky side.
Edit: over here, many aerodromes explicitly require "PPR by telephone" - check Recreatief Vliegveld Grimbergen - EBGB - Grimbergen Airfield for just one example - and since we're supposed to NOT use our mobiles while airborne there's few options left.
For those thinking it ridiculous: the one time I had NOT called before take-off, I found the place rented out for some commercial event and the runway cluttered with booths and people. Of course I had a plan B, there was never a real problem, but I had no plan C so I was on the lucky side.
Edit: over here, many aerodromes explicitly require "PPR by telephone" - check Recreatief Vliegveld Grimbergen - EBGB - Grimbergen Airfield for just one example - and since we're supposed to NOT use our mobiles while airborne there's few options left.
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PPR always makes me laugh. It's like having to phone the supermarket each time you go shopping to get permission to park in their car park.
PNR/Customs is more meaningful: the policeman is not normally based there. Of course, they could see the incoming flight plans, which is how UK Designated Customs airport Customs decide whether to turn up or not, but most are not that smart
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But for airfields operating under the 28-day rule or other restrictions it's vital that they know who is coming and going so they don't exceed it - or rather you don't accidentally exceed it for them.
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Any airfield that doesn't request "PPR by phone" I don't bother calling before and just turn up and ask to land. That way if we decide to go elsewhere, no big deal. There are lots of airfields around that don't require PPR by phone (Examples: Old Sarum, Compton Abbas, Dunkerswell, Bembridge, Shoreham etc....) and if you do phone them they just say...rightyo see ya later.
It has onluy caught me out once, on a flight to Bembridge a few weeks ago and we'd missed the Notam of being closed
Never mind, we just went elsewhere. Might be worthwhile if you are travelling a long distance, beyond bladder diverting range at any rate !
It has onluy caught me out once, on a flight to Bembridge a few weeks ago and we'd missed the Notam of being closed
Never mind, we just went elsewhere. Might be worthwhile if you are travelling a long distance, beyond bladder diverting range at any rate !
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PPR always makes me laugh. It's like having to phone the supermarket each time you go shopping to get permission to park in their car park
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But for airfields operating under the 28-day rule or other restrictions it's vital that they know who is coming and going so they don't exceed it - or rather you don't accidentally exceed it for them.
You can't just park in somebody else's drive, so you can't just drop into a strip which you see from the air.
A lot of southern European airports are PPR, Schengen or not. Just look at Greece. Of course there are loads that aren't but it's a pity to throw away the utility of those that are on the basis that one doesn't need to fly there.
I almost never fly to any airport - other than some big H24 ones which I know are not PPR - unless I can contact it beforehand, or the person I am meeting has done so. In the UK it's just a simple phone call.
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It is not largely a UK thing, there are many so-called "special airfields" in Germany with PPR and most/all can be asked via radio, but you may get refused.
The reasons are many, for example: the field might have few parking positions and thus they won't let you land if those are already filled; or repair work (or event, as mentioned above... ppr fields don't usually need to NOTAM) is going on; landing conditions are poor (=flooded or snow), and so on.
It's always sensible to call in advance, but if you leave yourself an alternative, there is usually no problem to call in via radio and ask, unless, of course, a prior phone call is specifically requested.
The reasons are many, for example: the field might have few parking positions and thus they won't let you land if those are already filled; or repair work (or event, as mentioned above... ppr fields don't usually need to NOTAM) is going on; landing conditions are poor (=flooded or snow), and so on.
It's always sensible to call in advance, but if you leave yourself an alternative, there is usually no problem to call in via radio and ask, unless, of course, a prior phone call is specifically requested.
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PPR actually covers a multitude of sins... you didn't see/check/missed the NOTAM re the Air Display - they've got no fuel today - they're closed today because someone is sick etc.
I try to PPR except for airfields I know well. After all, the land is usually private property of some form or other, and it is only a common courtesy.
As above, if people "encourage" others that PPR when requested should be disregarded, some will not know here to draw the line e.g. private strips.
Just to be clear:
I try to PPR except for airfields I know well. After all, the land is usually private property of some form or other, and it is only a common courtesy.
As above, if people "encourage" others that PPR when requested should be disregarded, some will not know here to draw the line e.g. private strips.
so they don't exceed it - or rather you don't accidentally exceed it for them. If I had a strip operating like that I would not publish it in any directory for the 10 years it needs to run. I would just invite mates of mine to drop in so I can build up the movements log, for the subsequent approval.
- To get the "approval" via CLU will require you to exceed the 28day "limit" for each of the 10 (consecutive) years
- I am not 100% sure you then "need" a subsequent approval - that requires notifying the authorities with all sorts of implications including rates
- If you do then go for PP the "restrictions" will probably be more onerous than before you ever told anybody
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It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.
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Some years ago I did so part time instructing at a small grass airfield that welcomed visitors on PPR only. The idea was to gain some idea of the visitors experience before commiting, effectivly a screening process. It's amazing how many PPLs who learned at a large airfield have serious trouble with 600m of wet grass. Every year there would be an aircraft in the hedge.
There are other hazards with grass airfields in winter. Nose wheel aircraft on water logged ground isn't a good idea if you don't know in advance. If PPR is asked there's a reason, please comply.
There are other hazards with grass airfields in winter. Nose wheel aircraft on water logged ground isn't a good idea if you don't know in advance. If PPR is asked there's a reason, please comply.
I agree that PPR is valid in some situations; such as a private strip with operating limitations. However, it seems to be applied with a ridiculously broad brush; most of the places I have called for PPR have just said "yes, no problem", and when asked if there is anything in particular I need to know, they say no! Then why are you asking for PPR at all, at a large, well equipped, airfield?
I know the wonderful USA is often pointed to as an example, but I have flown to hundreds of airfields over there, and have only encountered one, single airfield, where PP was R. Apart from a love of bureaucracy and rules, I see nothing that rules the majority of Europe's PPR airfields out as particularly different...
I know the wonderful USA is often pointed to as an example, but I have flown to hundreds of airfields over there, and have only encountered one, single airfield, where PP was R. Apart from a love of bureaucracy and rules, I see nothing that rules the majority of Europe's PPR airfields out as particularly different...
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It is common sense to telephone ahead. Firstly there may be a Notam you have missed (see above posting.) Secondly you get an update on the weather. In the U.K. as we all know a matter of a few miles or unusual local conditions can cause huge variations. Recently we were going to go to Garston Farm. Brize and Lyneham were both giving CAVOK but a check with the field's owner produced the response that they were 300 metres in fog caused by the fields elevation. There may also be a special briefing that you need. Finally knowing the runway in use gives you a chance to plan your approach by looking up the Plate.
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Of course the runway can change during your flight and then you'd be screwed eh?
Fine for 'small strips' or first time, but is there really any need to phone an "international airport" if you want to drop in there? As the americans would say on the phone if you called them "Eh? It's an airport, of course you can land here ???!?!?!"
Fine for 'small strips' or first time, but is there really any need to phone an "international airport" if you want to drop in there? As the americans would say on the phone if you called them "Eh? It's an airport, of course you can land here ???!?!?!"
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PPR
A little while ago in CHIRP there was a whine by somebody who hadn't phoned for PPR and found on arrival that the airfield was closed for 30 minutes during the day for an aerobatic display. Being a pilot he was outraged by their actions...
If I'm going for a bimble to somewhere I know and I either have alternate destinations or don't mind just flying back then I may not phone first*. If I really want to land there, or I need to get fuel then I'll ring before I take off.
Dave
* only applies to airfields - I always phone strips.
If I'm going for a bimble to somewhere I know and I either have alternate destinations or don't mind just flying back then I may not phone first*. If I really want to land there, or I need to get fuel then I'll ring before I take off.
Dave
* only applies to airfields - I always phone strips.