Light aircraft down near Andover
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Like, I imagine, most people who fly in Hampshire, I logged in looking for a type rather than names at this stage.
I was, of course, expecting to find the usual moral debate on information release that invariably goes with this type of thread on PPRuNe and so I find myself unsatisfied on one part and satisfied on the other.
I'm not going to speculate given that all the eyewitness reports (from the cows...) are contradictory (high speed, low and slow etc) but if it's an Ercoupe don't forget that it's "unspinnable" (well, that's what the designers said anyway).
Have to agree with the general feeling that a) I don't want the press to quote PPRuNe "fact" (it's lazy journalism given it's the opinions of everyone from Air Accident investigators through to Flight Sim First Officers...) but they will regardless of whether we want them to or not and b) this is a rumour site and it's therefore not really somewhere family members should be directed towards to view conciliatory messages within the first hour, it's going to have "rumour" in it some of which won't be nice. Therefore, please stop stressing about the rights and wrongs - AAIB/Police are very good at managing these events (sadly much experience) and families get informed as soon as possible.
It is perhaps interesting that the one person on here who does appear to know all the information made PPRuNe almost their first stop last evening, so even they want to enter the debate and gain some further insight - it's a horrible situation and thankfully the last time I was in it was pre-PPRuNe and so this debate was conducted on a smaller scale in the hangar.
I was, of course, expecting to find the usual moral debate on information release that invariably goes with this type of thread on PPRuNe and so I find myself unsatisfied on one part and satisfied on the other.
I'm not going to speculate given that all the eyewitness reports (from the cows...) are contradictory (high speed, low and slow etc) but if it's an Ercoupe don't forget that it's "unspinnable" (well, that's what the designers said anyway).
Have to agree with the general feeling that a) I don't want the press to quote PPRuNe "fact" (it's lazy journalism given it's the opinions of everyone from Air Accident investigators through to Flight Sim First Officers...) but they will regardless of whether we want them to or not and b) this is a rumour site and it's therefore not really somewhere family members should be directed towards to view conciliatory messages within the first hour, it's going to have "rumour" in it some of which won't be nice. Therefore, please stop stressing about the rights and wrongs - AAIB/Police are very good at managing these events (sadly much experience) and families get informed as soon as possible.
It is perhaps interesting that the one person on here who does appear to know all the information made PPRuNe almost their first stop last evening, so even they want to enter the debate and gain some further insight - it's a horrible situation and thankfully the last time I was in it was pre-PPRuNe and so this debate was conducted on a smaller scale in the hangar.
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It's not aircoupe. Aviation safety net has all of the details down to the serial number as they do with every aircraft incident that occurs. It is posted within hours of an accident.
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Please be careful with rumours. I know there's one going around and it's the wrong aircraft. Correct type, wrong reg. The police are still contacting relatives, so please be patient with type and names.
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Gosh, looking at aviation safty net, I'd say that looks as if it's in the public domain.
For what it's worth, If I ever bite the bullet as a result of an aviation accident, you're all welcome to speculate as much as you like. Whilst I'm still here is quite another thing...
For what it's worth, If I ever bite the bullet as a result of an aviation accident, you're all welcome to speculate as much as you like. Whilst I'm still here is quite another thing...
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CRX,
You also forgot the obligatory re-runs of the poem 'High Flight' which I am now sick of hearing, as to me it just means false condolences when anything like this happens.. Light a candle anyone? Group hug anyone?
Those who need to know what type or occupants name etc will already know that information.
And as for those who want to speculate on a cause already, are you sure????
You also forgot the obligatory re-runs of the poem 'High Flight' which I am now sick of hearing, as to me it just means false condolences when anything like this happens.. Light a candle anyone? Group hug anyone?
Those who need to know what type or occupants name etc will already know that information.
And as for those who want to speculate on a cause already, are you sure????
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This has to be a Pprune record. 5 posts and someone is chastised for asking what is a reasonable enough question on a rumour network.
If these Pprune members demonstrated such confidence to patronise their fellow posters in the pub face to face I suspect there would be persistent
Sometimes anonymity breeds an ill-perceived right to quickly dismiss others' remarks. This is not the Professional Pilot's Debating Network, so one would like to think disagreements are posted with respect to other's opinions.
Sigh.
If these Pprune members demonstrated such confidence to patronise their fellow posters in the pub face to face I suspect there would be persistent
Sometimes anonymity breeds an ill-perceived right to quickly dismiss others' remarks. This is not the Professional Pilot's Debating Network, so one would like to think disagreements are posted with respect to other's opinions.
Sigh.
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One vital thing to do in the event of an engine failure is to "push"
First action in the event of an engine failure in a single-engine type is to achieve, maintain, and trim for best glide speed, whilst searching for a suitable landing area. Once that has been identified
- plan your circuit
- try to identify the reason for the failure
- decide whether a restart is desirable or likely to be successful
- get out a mayday call
- carry out shut-down and security checks.
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5 posts and someone is chastised for asking what is a reasonable enough question on a rumour network.
There's some great information to be had in this forum, so why spoil it with infantile behaviour?
Personally I ignore these remarks as I assume that the posters making them couldn't possibly be what they claim to be. Probably some sad old git* sitting in front of his pc trying to get away from his nagging other half - the closest he ever got to an aeroplane was a SleazyJet ride to a packed holiday destination. This when he was still able to walk.
*Not so young myself, mind you!
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“One vital thing to do in the event of an engine failure is to "push"”
I was taught to check airspeed and if in normal cruse, pull up. I have to slow from 138kn to 70kn and the considerable height I would gain would be of considerable assistance in finding a suitable landing site. I would recommend the advice;
DON’T STALL
Rod1
I was taught to check airspeed and if in normal cruse, pull up. I have to slow from 138kn to 70kn and the considerable height I would gain would be of considerable assistance in finding a suitable landing site. I would recommend the advice;
DON’T STALL
Rod1
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Re: Stalling: Like most people, I've practiced many times EFATOs and simulated forced landings into fields.
This may be nothing to do with this accident but I still think the discussion is useful. It must be the hardest thing to keep airspeed up and not pull up when you know there is no suitable landing area and you are going to hit something fairly solid. We know it's usually better to hit something at low speed in a stable attitude rather than spinning in, but I hope I can maintain presence of mind if it ever comes to it.
This may be nothing to do with this accident but I still think the discussion is useful. It must be the hardest thing to keep airspeed up and not pull up when you know there is no suitable landing area and you are going to hit something fairly solid. We know it's usually better to hit something at low speed in a stable attitude rather than spinning in, but I hope I can maintain presence of mind if it ever comes to it.
I find this phenomenon of people attacking one another on pprune every time there is a fatal accident quite fascinating. It is such a recurring theme that you can almost set your watch by it.
Why are you all so scared or upset about talking about the demise of fellow aviators? We are ALL going to die. It is the only thing that we all have in common.
I absolutely agree that we should not be talking names until the next of kin have been informed, but after that, what exactly is the problem?
Perhaps my 18 years in the RAF had something to do with my attitude to such events.
I was 19 years old when I first got involved in carrying coffins.
Our usual reaction was to repair to the bar when we had a fatal accident on the squadron and have a bl**dy good thrash. The attitude was "Bloggs was a great chap so let's get round to his room and nick his flying boots while we've got the chance".
I can imagine that a lot of you out there might find this a strange way of dealing with a fatality but it worked.
If one of your mates has died, then do his memory a service but let us not have these artificial outpourings of grief from people who have never met or would ever have met the poor b*gger who has just paid for his love of flying with his life.
To me, it seems quite incredible that it has taken this long for someone just to announce that the aircraft involved was a Nord 854.
Let us get real people, we are all headed for the great hangar in the sky so let's get a bit more objective about the inevitable.
Why are you all so scared or upset about talking about the demise of fellow aviators? We are ALL going to die. It is the only thing that we all have in common.
I absolutely agree that we should not be talking names until the next of kin have been informed, but after that, what exactly is the problem?
Perhaps my 18 years in the RAF had something to do with my attitude to such events.
I was 19 years old when I first got involved in carrying coffins.
Our usual reaction was to repair to the bar when we had a fatal accident on the squadron and have a bl**dy good thrash. The attitude was "Bloggs was a great chap so let's get round to his room and nick his flying boots while we've got the chance".
I can imagine that a lot of you out there might find this a strange way of dealing with a fatality but it worked.
If one of your mates has died, then do his memory a service but let us not have these artificial outpourings of grief from people who have never met or would ever have met the poor b*gger who has just paid for his love of flying with his life.
To me, it seems quite incredible that it has taken this long for someone just to announce that the aircraft involved was a Nord 854.
Let us get real people, we are all headed for the great hangar in the sky so let's get a bit more objective about the inevitable.
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First action in the event of an engine failure in a single-engine type is to achieve, maintain, and trim for best glide speed, whilst searching for a suitable landing area. Once that has been identified
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Not that it may be of much relevance to the incident in question but:
Rod1
If you are looking out when you pull up (particularly above the aircraft) you are not looking for a suitable field and therefore wasting valuable time (and some of the height gained).
There is an argument whether it is better to pull up or to maintain level flight and let the speed bleed off whilst looking for a field.
englishal
Are you on the correct Thread? What on earth has an EFATO to do with this discussion?!
'Pushing' is not an aeronautical term I'm familiar with. Adopting the 'glide attitude' is better whether or not there is a need to 'push' or 'pull' the control column will depend on the phase of flight and the attitude and trim of the aeroplane. Don't presuppose that 'pushing' is necessarily the most appropriate action, although adopting a nose down attitude will, most likely, require a forward movement of the control column if the engine fails when the aircraft is in a climbing attitude immediately after take-off.
JW411
I agree entirely.
Respect for the dead, but insofar as a discussion regarding the accident itself is concerned is what a 'discussion forum' is all about - surely? No discussion about a fatal aircraft accident is pleasant, but the causes and the possible cure or avoidance of a similar occurrence must be of benefit to all. If not then why bother discussing such matters on PPRuNe at all?
FOK
Rod1
I was taught to check airspeed and if in normal cruse, pull up. I have to slow from 138kn to 70kn and the considerable height I would gain would be of considerable assistance in finding a suitable landing site. I would recommend the advice;
There is an argument whether it is better to pull up or to maintain level flight and let the speed bleed off whilst looking for a field.
englishal
First action in the event of an engine failure in a single-engine type is to achieve, maintain, and trim for best glide speed, whilst searching for a suitable landing area. Once that has been identified
Perhaps I should clarify - the first thing you should do with an engine failure at take off is to push.....
Perhaps I should clarify - the first thing you should do with an engine failure at take off is to push.....
'Pushing' is not an aeronautical term I'm familiar with. Adopting the 'glide attitude' is better whether or not there is a need to 'push' or 'pull' the control column will depend on the phase of flight and the attitude and trim of the aeroplane. Don't presuppose that 'pushing' is necessarily the most appropriate action, although adopting a nose down attitude will, most likely, require a forward movement of the control column if the engine fails when the aircraft is in a climbing attitude immediately after take-off.
JW411
I agree entirely.
Respect for the dead, but insofar as a discussion regarding the accident itself is concerned is what a 'discussion forum' is all about - surely? No discussion about a fatal aircraft accident is pleasant, but the causes and the possible cure or avoidance of a similar occurrence must be of benefit to all. If not then why bother discussing such matters on PPRuNe at all?
FOK