Light aircraft down near Andover
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I am with Monocock on this. From what I read two people with flying experience, one the owner/driver most likely with significant exprience on type end up in difficulties with a severe ending.
All this talk of EFATO handling is pointless and appropriate only to an audience of student pilots.
Although many of you do not like it you will have to wait for the AAIB report to see why it ended up as it did.
All this talk of EFATO handling is pointless and appropriate only to an audience of student pilots.
Although many of you do not like it you will have to wait for the AAIB report to see why it ended up as it did.
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Certainly one's standards can be set a bit higher than that
There are a lot of people who assume that an EFATO occurs at a convenient 500 ft. What a lovely thought! Next time you take off, imagine killing both mags 12 seconds after your tyres leave the ground....
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Hi, please don't link this talk of EFATO to the accident. I don't think it was suggested this was an EFATO, just that it was one possibility in such circumstances and a whole discussion started. While I think a discussion on what to do in case of an engine failure is a useful thing to have, it isn't necessarily linked to this accident.
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Air crash man 'meticulous pilot'
Camberley man dies in light aircraft crash - News - getsurrey
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Air crash man 'meticulous pilot'
Camberley man dies in light aircraft crash - News - getsurrey
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If you are referring to the injuries and the extent of the a/c damage
In my view, you can, and should, do both.
I think 12 seconds after liftoff would be a rather less unpleasant moment to have an engine failure than at 500 ft... I know exactly where I'd go if that were to happen. "Imagine it"? I do that before each flight... Not because it is required, but because that is the way I enjoy to fly.
EFATO not related to this accident? No, probably not, I wouldn't know... But now that the identity of the aircraft and the occupants has been established there probably won't be any new info to discuss for a year or so, might as well pass the time!
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bjornhall
Sorry I misunderstood your comment
One thing that intrigues me though is :
It very much depends on where you fly from. If you fly from a strip where 12 seconds has put you way beyond the opposite threshold and over some factories you might wish you had the luxury of 500 feet!!!!!!
We don't all fly from runways! Some of us use strips.
At this point I would ike to refrain from posting on this thread as it is, once again, off topic.
Sorry I misunderstood your comment
One thing that intrigues me though is :
I think 12 seconds after liftoff would be a rather less unpleasant moment to have an engine failure than at 500 ft
We don't all fly from runways! Some of us use strips.
At this point I would ike to refrain from posting on this thread as it is, once again, off topic.
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All this talk of EFATO handling is pointless and appropriate only to an audience of student pilots.
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I've only made a few posts on this site, but have been lurking for a while. SOme of you need to grow up. You talk like little children.
1) If people want to express their condolences, in any form, then that is their perogative. Although only a PPL student I can understand the level of apparent 'comradery' in private flying, so if people want to simply leave a message leaving a respects then they should be able to without being bothered.
2) If people want to know the registration of the plane or the pilots then I see no problem with this. It is a small world, there must only be 1/2 degrees of seperation in most private flying in the UK. Baseless speculation is counter-productive and potentially damaging, but questionning the names of the pilots isn't disrespectful.
3) Speculation about the cause of the accident shouldn't be criticised. Discussing potential causes of accidents and their solutions has great benefits for students and qualified pilots alike. The debate around the correct course of action in an EFOTA for example has highlighted that some people do not know the correct cause of action. The previous posts contain information about ATPL holders with thousands of hours, who tried to turn back on take-off. It doesn't matter how many hours you have, you're still vulnerable to the most basic of mistakes. Discussion around the cause of accidents puts solutions and prevention to the forefront of your mind, which isn't a bad thing. Even if there was no EFOTA in this accident the information provided is very useful. Criticising the pilots for their actions is another thing completely and is usually completely unwarranted and unacceptable, however.
1) If people want to express their condolences, in any form, then that is their perogative. Although only a PPL student I can understand the level of apparent 'comradery' in private flying, so if people want to simply leave a message leaving a respects then they should be able to without being bothered.
2) If people want to know the registration of the plane or the pilots then I see no problem with this. It is a small world, there must only be 1/2 degrees of seperation in most private flying in the UK. Baseless speculation is counter-productive and potentially damaging, but questionning the names of the pilots isn't disrespectful.
3) Speculation about the cause of the accident shouldn't be criticised. Discussing potential causes of accidents and their solutions has great benefits for students and qualified pilots alike. The debate around the correct course of action in an EFOTA for example has highlighted that some people do not know the correct cause of action. The previous posts contain information about ATPL holders with thousands of hours, who tried to turn back on take-off. It doesn't matter how many hours you have, you're still vulnerable to the most basic of mistakes. Discussion around the cause of accidents puts solutions and prevention to the forefront of your mind, which isn't a bad thing. Even if there was no EFOTA in this accident the information provided is very useful. Criticising the pilots for their actions is another thing completely and is usually completely unwarranted and unacceptable, however.
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After giving my 2 pence worth maybe I should try and clarify my rather vague comments.
What I was implying was, if you are faced with a EFATO and you find a lot of trees in front of you and they cant be avoided then dont try and avoid them. Go in under control. Don't try and "stall the aircraft in or on".
As for the turn back merchants. What were everyone of us taught from day one of EFATO training? DON'T TURN BACK! (over 40years ago in my case)Unless you are a pilot of exceptional caliber dont even think about it. "Aviation is a highly developed science, so don't pioneer." Remember you will need 1000' AGL abeam the threshold, at best glide a/s for the 180 deg turn in most light aircraft, to carryout a successful dead stick, after getting the aircraft into a landing configuration. (A "fast jet" you will probably need 7000' AGL min., if you haven't banged out, for whatever reason) As mentioned by a previous poster, a stationary propeller is a great source of drag and how many of us have practised that?
What I was implying was, if you are faced with a EFATO and you find a lot of trees in front of you and they cant be avoided then dont try and avoid them. Go in under control. Don't try and "stall the aircraft in or on".
As for the turn back merchants. What were everyone of us taught from day one of EFATO training? DON'T TURN BACK! (over 40years ago in my case)Unless you are a pilot of exceptional caliber dont even think about it. "Aviation is a highly developed science, so don't pioneer." Remember you will need 1000' AGL abeam the threshold, at best glide a/s for the 180 deg turn in most light aircraft, to carryout a successful dead stick, after getting the aircraft into a landing configuration. (A "fast jet" you will probably need 7000' AGL min., if you haven't banged out, for whatever reason) As mentioned by a previous poster, a stationary propeller is a great source of drag and how many of us have practised that?
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 23rd Sep 2009 at 05:51.
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It very much depends on where you fly from. If you fly from a strip where 12 seconds has put you way beyond the opposite threshold and over some factories you might wish you had the luxury of 500 feet!!!!!!
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All this talk of EFATO handling is pointless and appropriate only to an audience of student pilots.
Yes, it was a tragic accident and people's friends have died, but at least by reading the thread and focusing on the things that CAN go wrong then it may save someone elses bacon - perhaps someone who is not a skygod. Discussion about stuff like EFATO is completely revelant under the circumstances.
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Student Pilots
Well said Englishal.
I think the levels of pomposity on this thread have been astonishing.
A highly experienced commercial pilot and instructor at my airfield would always tell his students "As soon as you think you've nothing more to learn, you've become a dangerous pilot". He clearly wasn't talking about students or low hour PPLs there.
Virtually all saftey related discussion is valid after a terrible accident, even if it does not directly relate to the accident itself. I, for one, will be thinking about many of the points discussed on this thread the next time I roll. Even if EFATO had nothing to do with Sunday's unfortunate events.
I think the levels of pomposity on this thread have been astonishing.
A highly experienced commercial pilot and instructor at my airfield would always tell his students "As soon as you think you've nothing more to learn, you've become a dangerous pilot". He clearly wasn't talking about students or low hour PPLs there.
Virtually all saftey related discussion is valid after a terrible accident, even if it does not directly relate to the accident itself. I, for one, will be thinking about many of the points discussed on this thread the next time I roll. Even if EFATO had nothing to do with Sunday's unfortunate events.
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IMHO this is he wrong thread to be discussing EFATO on.
All the 'sage' advice on how to handle an EFATO has been covered in this forum many times before and nothing here is new advice for the readers.
...and before the cutting remarks start again I also think this is not the place for a hand bag fight.
All the 'sage' advice on how to handle an EFATO has been covered in this forum many times before and nothing here is new advice for the readers.
...and before the cutting remarks start again I also think this is not the place for a hand bag fight.
