Bags still in Heathrow - passengers not informed

[redsnail]

I know some airlines wanted to ban them, but none have.

[ManAtTheBack]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

I don't think that's the case - do you have any examples ?

Lufthansa did ban them but then reversed the ban.

X - Formerly Twitter

[SWBKCB]

As much as I sympathise with people who's baggage goes off on an adventure without them, I just treat it as something that comes with the territory of travel.

Family member has just arrived in Berlin to find that non of the checked bags made it on board. But amazingly it seemed to take two hours from arrival to find this out.

Yes, things can and will go wrong with the odd bag, especially where it involves multiple transfers, but the point the O/P raised is the attitude of the airline when all the baggage on the flight doesn't go.

Yes, mistakes happen but it's how you handle them that shows the quality of the organisation.

[BonnieLass]

I won't make excuses for BA (I actively avoid flying with them anyway for a variety of reasons) but surely the delay in telling people that the baggage had been left behind was an unfortunate side effect of the IT breakdown?

If the system is not working, it cannot tell anyone that anything is wrong.....so bags that were checked in have not been through the system due to the system going fuzzy, so that system cannot alert anyone that bags are stuck where they should not be (if that makes sense)

One bag from one flight goes walkies and it is accepted as something that happens occasionally

All bags from all flights do not make it out onto the apron to be loaded due to a full IT tantrum, then getting the message out to all planes, all pax and the destination airports is going to be harder thanks to it being an IT driven system

All bags are scanned by the IT system from the point of check in to aircraft and from aircraft to destination carousel, if one part of that IT journey is not working, then that information isn't going to get to the destination is it

[V_2]

In answer to the OP original question, I have operated 2 flights where bags did not get loaded and I only found out about it the other end once we had started disembarking and the ramp agent came up to ask why there was no bags. I joked maybe they fell out which was lost in translation

without going into specific airline procedures, the final loading confirmation just has the total payload (pax+bags+cargo) and the total trim. No figure for just bags on the final confirmation. On one occasion due slot or curfew I forget the dispatcher gave up waiting for bags and just closed up and never told us. On some routes only 1in 10 pax might have a bag in the hold so it’s minor stuff changing

[wiggy]

It’s been a while but as I recall it it can be very much a case (SWIDT) of what V 2 said…

A heck of a lot of short haul and quite a few long haul pax don’t check in bags and Long Haul at least there’s a variability in payload due to cargo, so the basic numbers on the loadsheet may not tell the full story…

Sometimes the first clue you got something was amiss was when you started getting ACARS (datalink) messages mid-flight from HQ giving the names of multiple passengers who needed to contact customer services on arrival.

[Hartington]

A good few years ago I needed to get from London to Los Angeles. I don't remember why but I ended going via San Francisco. After clearing customs and immigration I rechecked my bag and headed for the United flight which left and arrived on time. Stood by the carousel in Los Angeles for a while and nothing appeared. When I went to baggage services I was told it had come down on the previous flight and it was in "that stack" in the hall (and it was).

[SpringHeeledJack]

Sounds like a total customer service failure by BA. These days it seems that aside from First and perhaps business, it's a race to the bottom even on legacy carriers. Two summers ago good ol' Lufthansa managed to lose my bag inbetween two short-haul flights. They did inform me as soon as I landed (by text) that the bag was 'elsewhere', but it took 3 days to get it back and not a little stress. The AirTag inside provided an interesting visual narrative.

Back in the 80's I was flying from HNL to LGW with World Airways (if anyone remembers them). We flew HNL-OAK-BWI-LGW. All went well until my bags went on the FRA flight instead. Once alerted, they put a 'RUSH' notice on my bags and Air India had a flight to LHR leaving shortly after. Sadly the bags went to DEL on the opposing AI flight and it took 3 or 4 days to come back home again.

[+TSRA]

Family member has just arrived in Berlin to find that non of the checked bags made it on board. But amazingly it seemed to take two hours from arrival to find this out. It was my understanding that the aircraft can't go anywhere until the crew know the weight of the cargo. In which case they'd know on departure - and passengers could be told then. Or at the least immediately on arrival.

Not exactly clear from the OPs post. Are we saying that none of the family members checked bags made it on board or that none of the checked baggage of any passenger made it onboard? Those are two very different scenarios.

If it is the former - none of the family members bags made it - then I would ask what was their flight itinerary. Was this a connecting flight with a tight connection, so they made it but their bags did not? If not, when did they check in? I ask these questions because while it is still the duty of the airline to inform passengers, there are solid reasons why a bag may not make it. Especially in busy airspace where you're dealing with slot times. Waiting 5 to 10 minutes for connecting or late check-in baggage can mean the difference between making your slot and waiting 2 hours for a new one. Given the amount of money that could potentially be paid out in late fees should the airline wait, you can't blame them for going without. It is often the difference between making a profit that flight or not. I firmly believe airlines should not be selling tickets with connection times of less than three hours. That's a good buffer for delays, security, and getting to the new gate. I strongly urge anyone not to even purchase a ticket with a one hour connection - that's simple begging for trouble.

As for the second scenario, I doubt highly that all the checked bags for the flight were left behind on a Heathrow-Berlin sector, although it can happen on longer flight segments. That sector is too short, unless they were holding Moscow as an alternate. I just don't see that happening.

Now on to informing passengers. I've done it before, but all that happens is because I don't know whose bag made it (I'm told weight and bag count, but not whose bag made it), everyone is panicked. Then they're not listening to the safety information, or they're giving the flight attendants a hard time through the flight, or they begin arguing with each other. This could result in an unruly passenger situation where we're landing somewhere else to kick someone off. That's not good for anyone, and only inflames the situation further. So instead, it is better from a flight crew perspective to wait and let the gate agents at the other end deal with it. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it can be seen to be very poor customer service. And I agree: it is. But we don't have the tools to fix the problem in the air, so it's best not to make it a problem, especially when we often find this information out after we've closed the main cabin door and pulled the bridge away from the aircraft.

In that light, I do think this is something airlines need to fix yesterday. We certainly have the technology to track bags and inform passengers through the airlines app. There would have to be new procedures written for what to do if a passenger says their bag is not on board, but I can tell you that I'm not holding up a multi-million dollar show for a single bag, especially where there are slot times or weather concerns involved, so the solution needs to be in the app itself. A simple "my bag didn't make it" button that is processed by the airline by the time the aircraft lands. If it turns out the bag did make it, all is well. If the bag didn't make it, any payments are immediately refunded and the airline begins the process to return the bag, with a maximum amount of time between when the flight left and when the bag is returned. And by maximum, 3 to 4 days on a sector that is served hourly is not acceptable. Rush delivery next available flight (not airline specific). Heck, that's a whole new revenue stream for airlines - connecting lost baggage!

[Abrahn]

Originally Posted by +TSRA

, so the solution needs to be in the app itself. A simple "my bag didn't make it" button

Is not going to work if the phone charger was in the lost luggage, whereas an in-flight announcement would allow someone to ration their remaining battery, hold back some of that essential medicine etc.

If you treat passengers like children or cattle, they behave like children or cattle and even the most normally understanding get stressed and take it out on the crew and other public facing members of staff. Treat people like intelligent human beings and, generally, they behave like intelligent human beings.

Maybe fine for those safely locked up at the front, but your convenience is at the expense of the minimum wage handling agent on the ground.

​​​​​

Spoiler

 

 

My first "real" job was tracking down lost cargo, thankfully not passenger luggage.



[Asturias56]

TBH I'm always astonished at how FEW bags go AWOL. There are millions of them shunting about the system at any one time. And most of them have to be correctly positioned within an hour. And its only a semi-automated process - so you have a large number of humans in the loop and it still works.

[Helol]

Friend flew JNB-LHR, then onwards to Glasgow later that evening. They were told when boarding the flight to Glasgow that their bags wouldn't be. This was on the day of Baggage 'issues' at T5.
Bags were delivered at home 2 days later.

[+TSRA]

Treating people as intelligent has not, in my experience, always led to the generally harmonious outcome you describe or desire. I’m being facetious of course, but to paraphrase George Carlin: people are smart, groups are idiots. You assume in your response that the missing baggage is known about before the flight where rationing could occur, but I would ask you is there not the personal responsibility to bring items with you that you cannot live without? A phone is as necessary in our society as medication. I don’t like it, but it is. So you should not be leaving your charger, passport, or medication in checked baggage and only bringing enough with you for the flight. I’ve twice had medicals where the diabetic patient told me their insulin was in their checked baggage because they assumed we would have insulin on board. If you want to be taken as an adult, take responsibility and bring these things on your person.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not suggesting the airlines are the innocent party in losing luggage. They’re not. They are the reason, and they are the only ones who have the responsibility to solve the issue. But the solution has to involve as few steps and people as possible. Human error is sometimes the reason for lost luggage, so there is no sense introducing the chance for more human error into the mix. Better to have direct to passenger communication through the app or an email.

[PAXboy]

Over 40 years ago, I was told, "When your bag is accepted by the check-in agent - assume that you will never see it again." Thus far, that has not happened to me.

I carry all sorts of small extras in case I get dumped into a lounge at 04:00 in a country that I had not planned on visiting or any other delay, many of which I have experienced.

[Mr Mac]

I have only had one luggage incident out bound which was with BA which was on a trip to Boston in early 2000,s. The shuttle was late to Manchester due to high winds at LHR. We boarded flew down to LHR came off the plane in T1 and were taken by minibus to T4 gate and boarded, and the doors was shut behind us so we were aware our bags would not be there but were assured that they would be on the next plane (there were two services a day at the time I believe). It took 3 days for my bag to show up, my chairman’s disappeared never to be seen again.

Inbound when we used to do a lot of flying with BA bags missing the shuttle or shuttle cancellations was an all too regular occurrence, and we were on first name terms with Fred the White van man who would always turn up about 5hrs later with said bag and have a Coffee and a Dark Digestive biscuit or 3 ( his favourite). We used to keep them just for him as neither of us are big biscuit eaters which says a lot about how often it occurred. We gave up flying with BA in around 2008 due to the above though did use them to go to Nairobi last year as we got flights for free, and you guessed it the inbound bag did not arrive, so another Fred arrived some hours later though not a biscuit man !

Cheers
Mr Mac

[25F]

Originally Posted by +TSRA

As for the second scenario, I doubt highly that all the checked bags for the flight were left behind on a Heathrow-Berlin sector, although it can happen on longer flight segments. That sector is too short, unless they were holding Moscow as an alternate. I just don't see that happening.

I did say none of *the* checked bags arrived, rather than none of *their* checked bags arrived. This was during the aftermath of the general meltdown at Heathrow so not wildly surprising. My point is extremely poor communication with customers. Many valid points have been made but if the baggage bods in Berlin find the hold empty, can't this be relayed?
(FWIW - I assume it was the whole aircraft but I do know that none of the 50-strong group got their cases until the next morning).

[Asturias56]

On the other hand I was once with a group of a dozen flying Miami- Houston change planes Austin. Due to weather we were so delayed that we had a 10 minute connection. American arranged that our plane arrived at the next gate to the onward flight - the Captain explained the situation before landing and asked everyone else to remain seated while the Dozen charged off ... we made it and, amazingly, so did all our checked luggage.

[ATSA1]

Once we flew from Cardiff to Joburg via Amsterdam with 3 bags. We had paid for the 3rd bag as it contained Xmas presents..all went well to AMS, (it was only a 2 hr stopover anyway)..On arrival late at night in JNB, and waited in vain for 2 of our bags...Yes the one that just had Xmas presents in turned up ok! We asked the KLM rep what had happened, and she consulted a list and told us "Oh your bags got offloaded at AMS, dont worry, they will be here tomorrow!" We were given a little pack containing toiletries and a t shirt, I was lucky, i had a change of clothes in my cabin bag, but my wife had hardly any clothes in hers..so we had to do a quick trip to the shops next day so she could at least have something clean to wear for the last leg of our trip... The bags did turn up 2 days later...and we thought ourselves lucky that we actually saw them again..then 2 trips later, it happened again, at least we both had a change of spare clothes that time! I never flew KLM again..

I have had bags go walkies several times since, but always got them back a day or so later..

[justapax]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

On the other hand I was once with a group of a dozen flying Miami- Houston change planes Austin. Due to weather we were so delayed that we had a 10 minute connection. American arranged that our plane arrived at the next gate to the onward flight - the Captain explained the situation before landing and asked everyone else to remain seated while the Dozen charged off ... we made it and, amazingly, so did all our checked luggage.

I think the days of running across the tarmac from one plane to another are now over. I did that at LIS with three bags weighing in total 90 kg (I was a lot younger and fitter then) in 35 C heat, the baggage handlers had me point out the bags to be unloaded and then I ran with them. I was purple in the face as the baggage door closed and the engines spooled up, the cabin crew looked very concerned they might have a medical case on their hands. So was I.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by +TSRA

As for the second scenario, I doubt highly that all the checked bags for the flight were left behind on a Heathrow-Berlin sector, although it can happen on longer flight segments. That sector is too short, unless they were holding Moscow as an alternate. I just don't see that happening.

One of the more common combinations, actually, even on short hauls. Dispatcher tells crew that loaders are one crew down, it will be another 20 minutes. Crew says departure slot is more important than people getting bags, let's go. Dispatcher makes simple subtraction on load sheet, W&B still in limits. Signed. Shuts door.

Pax at destination told bags "mishandled", when in fact it was the carrier's deliberate decision. Regarding being down on loaders, could have asked the early shift to stay on, but nobody will authorise the overtime payments. Cheaper to stiff the passengers.