Greedy Airlines & SlimLine Seats!
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Hey, PAXboy .. Here's one for you.
A relative of mine was, at the time, (late 1800s) the wealthiest man in Australia.
One day, he was recognised travelling 2nd Class on a train.
When discreetly queried about this, he gruffly responded...
"That's because they don't have a 3rd Class on this train!"
So, there you go.
p.s. I hasten to add .. Neither his wealth nor parsimony rubbed off on me.
A relative of mine was, at the time, (late 1800s) the wealthiest man in Australia.
One day, he was recognised travelling 2nd Class on a train.
When discreetly queried about this, he gruffly responded...
"That's because they don't have a 3rd Class on this train!"
So, there you go.
p.s. I hasten to add .. Neither his wealth nor parsimony rubbed off on me.
A Runyonesque Character
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I left the world of airline economics two years ago (and I don't miss it) but one of the standard metrics throughout the industry is cost per ask (available seat-km). Ryanair and the like used to trumpet how they got their unit costs down through quick turnarounds, low user fees etc, but the biggest gulf between the (then) BA, Lufthansa etc was the seating density. Increase the capacity by 25%, your seat-km costs come down by 20%. No other single cost saving can come anywhere close to that.
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Originally Posted by chefrp
So this is what business has come to these days. No benefits for their paying customers?
Originally Posted by chefrp
You seem to come from the Ebenezer Scrooge school of business. But remember what happened to him.
Originally Posted by chefrp
Singapore Airlines is a government owned airline, the best airline in the world, offers good legroom, free meals, clean planes and outstanding service...what is so wrong with that?
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That’s the joy of a competitive aviation market.
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Singapore Airlines are government owned but commercially run, the idea was to make money rather than have a state subsidised, inefficient, poor service, jobs for the boys excuse for an airline like so many developing countries. Air India or Kuwait Airways come to mind.
The fares tend to be in the upper range unless you get lucky with a special deal but the airline is profitable so they must be getting it right.
Yesterday, I had a flight on a full service airline but budget economy ticket ie last class. The baggage allowance was 10kg rather than 20kg but I had no check in bags anyway. The wife and I ended up in middle seats in separate rows and got only 50% of the normal airmiles. No complaints at all and quite acceptable for a 1:20 flight. The fare was only slightly higher than a low cost and I needed to keep my account active to avoiding losing my miles, so it was worth it for me.
The fares tend to be in the upper range unless you get lucky with a special deal but the airline is profitable so they must be getting it right.
Yesterday, I had a flight on a full service airline but budget economy ticket ie last class. The baggage allowance was 10kg rather than 20kg but I had no check in bags anyway. The wife and I ended up in middle seats in separate rows and got only 50% of the normal airmiles. No complaints at all and quite acceptable for a 1:20 flight. The fare was only slightly higher than a low cost and I needed to keep my account active to avoiding losing my miles, so it was worth it for me.
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The best airline in the World?
During last 20 years I have used Malaysian Airlines and Singapore Airlines for travel to Europe and South Africa, in fact I have almost 90 return trips to South Africa in that time. I also thought SQ were No. 1, probably because they said so.
However my last trip to Europe was with British Airways, not my favourite airline but the fare offered was irresistible.
I was in the back row of economy for 14 hours in a seat that gave me at least 7 hours of deep sleep, and meals were as good as they get, fillet steak and cheese omelette for breakfast.
So which is the best airline?
During last 20 years I have used Malaysian Airlines and Singapore Airlines for travel to Europe and South Africa, in fact I have almost 90 return trips to South Africa in that time. I also thought SQ were No. 1, probably because they said so.
However my last trip to Europe was with British Airways, not my favourite airline but the fare offered was irresistible.
I was in the back row of economy for 14 hours in a seat that gave me at least 7 hours of deep sleep, and meals were as good as they get, fillet steak and cheese omelette for breakfast.
So which is the best airline?
Andy_S,
An airline tend to be more expensive for flights to/from its base and less expensive when selling a ticket involving a connection via/through its base. So maybe you are a bit unfair to SQ.
To the thread: Unfortunately all airlines offer a similar seating so it is hard for the customer to choose the one with the largest pitch.
An airline tend to be more expensive for flights to/from its base and less expensive when selling a ticket involving a connection via/through its base. So maybe you are a bit unfair to SQ.
To the thread: Unfortunately all airlines offer a similar seating so it is hard for the customer to choose the one with the largest pitch.
Thread Starter
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Actually SQ was originally the long haul bit of the old MSA - which was already developing a good reputation.
Lee Kwan Yew wanted it to "brand" Singapore as a go-ahead, first world, full service, friendly and efficient place to attract tourists and business so he gave it his full attentrion - a rather frightening prospect but boy did they succeed................
Lee Kwan Yew wanted it to "brand" Singapore as a go-ahead, first world, full service, friendly and efficient place to attract tourists and business so he gave it his full attentrion - a rather frightening prospect but boy did they succeed................
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Some years ago, thanks to Frog Air, I learned that if an airline has 10 across seating in a B777 economy then they can go shove their product up their butt.
I haven't travelled long-haul since 2011 but when I come to do so I shall be checking online seat plans before booking.
I haven't travelled long-haul since 2011 but when I come to do so I shall be checking online seat plans before booking.
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The Greed has no bounds
Andy S wrote:
Enjoy your flight. I am sure you will be cursing me the whole way, and kicking if you could move your legs (thinking about the pleasure of flying SQ)...
and
Yes, but there was a valuable lesson to the story that apparently you and all of the Airline CEO's missed, what a shame 
And finally, this was just in the NY Times today: great read and wraps up the current state of our discussion...
http://nyti.ms/1WVu0wK
This is what you seem to struggle to understand. I have many choices in how I get to Singapore, and while I could afford to pay more to fly with SQ I have chosen not to do so.
and
Ebeneezer Scrooge was a fictional character.
And finally, this was just in the NY Times today: great read and wraps up the current state of our discussion...
http://nyti.ms/1WVu0wK
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Rubbish. Free bags have little if any effect on amount of carry-on. At airports where Southwest is dominant there are the same problems.
It just sounds right, but it isn't.
It just sounds right, but it isn't.
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I don't see the issues. Airlines are providing bare bones fares where you pay basically for the seat and fuel. My optional extras will cost you more. You control how much you pay and pay for things that you need. I don't expect the vegetables and gravy to come for free when I buy a joint of beef.
Processing baggage incurs a real cost to airlines and therefore should be passed on. The same goes for food. If you want extra legroom it's available. If you want premium classes they're available too.
It's a free market. Airlines provide a service that the market will support whilst generating profit and shareholder benefit. Shareholders can include pension funds or mom and pop investors so a lot of people do benefit.
Nobody forces anyone to do anything they don't want. Choice is choice and if you don't link they way someone runs their business, hit them where it hurts and vote with your model.
It seems to me people are bitter and very anti LCC and blame them for the changes in their full size airline. This is BS. LCCs compete on a tiny fraction of long haul routes.
If it all gets too much for you then there's Seat61.com. A really cool site that tells you how to get around without giving a penny to their airlines.
Processing baggage incurs a real cost to airlines and therefore should be passed on. The same goes for food. If you want extra legroom it's available. If you want premium classes they're available too.
It's a free market. Airlines provide a service that the market will support whilst generating profit and shareholder benefit. Shareholders can include pension funds or mom and pop investors so a lot of people do benefit.
Nobody forces anyone to do anything they don't want. Choice is choice and if you don't link they way someone runs their business, hit them where it hurts and vote with your model.
It seems to me people are bitter and very anti LCC and blame them for the changes in their full size airline. This is BS. LCCs compete on a tiny fraction of long haul routes.
If it all gets too much for you then there's Seat61.com. A really cool site that tells you how to get around without giving a penny to their airlines.
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I knew a Captain who used to use the coach between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur rather than fly, even though he had access to staff travel. Door to door the coach journey was only two hours longer, it stopped closer to his home, no-one weighed his luggage, he could sleep most of the way in a comfortable seat and the coach never diverted because of bad weather.
For my next dive holiday I'm looking at using a ferry instead of flying. The airfare is very expensive, baggage is limited, the airport in question is small and has many diversions/delays/cancellations during the wet season and I have to wait before I can fly after diving.
The ferry is 1/3 the price, saves me two nights hotel accommodation as the sailings are overnight, I can take all my dive kit with me, I don't have to worry about decompression sickness and it can still sail in weather that would close the airport. I'll spend half the journey asleep onboard instead of sleeping in a hotel at origin/destination so I don't really lose any holiday time at all.
For my next dive holiday I'm looking at using a ferry instead of flying. The airfare is very expensive, baggage is limited, the airport in question is small and has many diversions/delays/cancellations during the wet season and I have to wait before I can fly after diving.
The ferry is 1/3 the price, saves me two nights hotel accommodation as the sailings are overnight, I can take all my dive kit with me, I don't have to worry about decompression sickness and it can still sail in weather that would close the airport. I'll spend half the journey asleep onboard instead of sleeping in a hotel at origin/destination so I don't really lose any holiday time at all.
