Greedy Airlines & SlimLine Seats!
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... Provided they do not exceed the certified maximum number of seats. U2 (Squeezie) had 159 seats on their A319s before the slimline seats. As that is the maximum for that aircraft they couldn't add any more seats. An improvement in pitch and legroom
Airlines that have fewer than the maximum could, of course, squeeze in more seats if possible. Aircraft in mixed configurations are candidates for this.
Airlines that have fewer than the maximum could, of course, squeeze in more seats if possible. Aircraft in mixed configurations are candidates for this.
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Ho ho ho - the airlines fit them so they can squeeze in more seats
EZY differ from other A319 operators in having four overwing (Type III) emergency exits instead of the usual two, which allows them to exceed the standard 145 passenger maximum for the A319.
EZY's limit is 160 pax, though it's hard to see any way they could physically squeeze in more than 26 rows, hence their 156 passenger configuration.
EZY's limit is 160 pax, though it's hard to see any way they could physically squeeze in more than 26 rows, hence their 156 passenger configuration.
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The A319s are gradually being replaced with brand new A320 CEO and NEO from next year and will feature an additional 6 seats and the Spaceflex rear galley.
U2 have had the A319 for well over a decade. If there was a way to fit additional seats into the A319 then I'm sure they would have figured out a way to do it by now. Removing, combing or moving toilets, galleys or anything just wouldn't work. I'm surprised it's certified for 160. Maybe Airbus had ideas back when it was ceritified?
Four more seats doesn't sound a lot but with half a dozen flights every day multiplied by 364 then that's a lot of money.
U2 have had the A319 for well over a decade. If there was a way to fit additional seats into the A319 then I'm sure they would have figured out a way to do it by now. Removing, combing or moving toilets, galleys or anything just wouldn't work. I'm surprised it's certified for 160. Maybe Airbus had ideas back when it was ceritified?
Four more seats doesn't sound a lot but with half a dozen flights every day multiplied by 364 then that's a lot of money.
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possible 2.5% more revenue per flight
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Greedy Airlines & SlimLine Seats!
I recently flew 4 sectors on Qatar. BKK-DOH, DOH-JFK and back JFK-DOH, DOH-RGN...
The flight from BKK was 5hrs on the A380 and was great. In DOH we boarded the brand new A350 for a 14hr trip to JFK... the plane is gorgeous. The main circular entrance amazing, than you step into the Economy cabin. My wife's 1st statement was "the seats are so small!" The FA said oh yes they are... cabin was very well designed...except these seats...they didn't even line up with the aisle numbers above (must have been a late decision). Well we were very lucky, no one sat in our row, or in front of us...maybe the word is out, even so the seats where awful, cramped, no leg room, tight, hard! My wife had really bad problems with swelling in her legs. It was miserable. On the way home we flew one of their older 777's with the 3-3-3 config (which they are switching to 3-4-3). What a difference, I slept the whole way in comfort.
What is with these airlines, so greedy... they are turning record profits and just cram more seats in the planes. Are they safe? And why on super long haul? Oh and one more thing, when someone reclines you have to as well, and still your LCD screen is about 2 inches from your face.....
I use to like Qatar...
The flight from BKK was 5hrs on the A380 and was great. In DOH we boarded the brand new A350 for a 14hr trip to JFK... the plane is gorgeous. The main circular entrance amazing, than you step into the Economy cabin. My wife's 1st statement was "the seats are so small!" The FA said oh yes they are... cabin was very well designed...except these seats...they didn't even line up with the aisle numbers above (must have been a late decision). Well we were very lucky, no one sat in our row, or in front of us...maybe the word is out, even so the seats where awful, cramped, no leg room, tight, hard! My wife had really bad problems with swelling in her legs. It was miserable. On the way home we flew one of their older 777's with the 3-3-3 config (which they are switching to 3-4-3). What a difference, I slept the whole way in comfort.
What is with these airlines, so greedy... they are turning record profits and just cram more seats in the planes. Are they safe? And why on super long haul? Oh and one more thing, when someone reclines you have to as well, and still your LCD screen is about 2 inches from your face.....
I use to like Qatar...
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The whole problem here is one of "derived demand" - put simply people do not purchase an airline ticket because they derive pleasure from the product (i.e. The flight) - the flight is simply an unavoidable hurdle to get from A to B.
As such any airline that undercuts on price will quickly pick up market share. In economic terms it is a very price elastic market. The inevitable product of all of this is a race to the bottom. As one poster said previously as soon as one carrier starts ramming in 10-across seating into their 777s everyone else is forced to follow suit in quick succession.
As such any airline that undercuts on price will quickly pick up market share. In economic terms it is a very price elastic market. The inevitable product of all of this is a race to the bottom. As one poster said previously as soon as one carrier starts ramming in 10-across seating into their 777s everyone else is forced to follow suit in quick succession.
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Welcome to Economy Class.
Like it or not, Airlines are businesses. They exist to make money out of you. Accept it. It’s pointless complaining about airlines being “greedy” – they will always look for ways of maximising the return on their assets, and are fully entitled to do so.
Equally, you are entitled to travel on a different airline or to pay more and upgrade.
Like it or not, Airlines are businesses. They exist to make money out of you. Accept it. It’s pointless complaining about airlines being “greedy” – they will always look for ways of maximising the return on their assets, and are fully entitled to do so.
Equally, you are entitled to travel on a different airline or to pay more and upgrade.
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I agree with you mostly. Recently I upgraded to Premium Economy on Singapore, and it was great. But it is not realistic for the average customer to upgrade to business, as the price differential has become so steep. What I am saying is that the business model will eventually fail. Do you know they haven't even done health test on these seats? Yes the customer lets this happen by wanting super cheap tickets, but the airlines are taking advantage of this. I guess it is the case with most corporations nowadays, they are all "greedy"....
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Is it safe? I believe it is and most likely the aircraft config actually seats way less than it is certified to carry.
Supply and demand. The airlines are providing what the market is prepared to buy. With options for those who want to upgrade.
Cramped seating is nothing new. AOM, Corsair, what is now Air Caribes, Britannia and other tourist bombers have always had cramped seating 20 years ago. It did us no harm then. The thing is people still expect to pay 1996 prices and expect luxury.
Something has to give. If people aren't prepared to pay for it, then why should airlines provide it? Just look at AA who have recently gone 10Y on the 777 and have just two rows of first class on the A32S. Why? Because it was full of free upgrades. Nobody was prepared to pay for First, so they've acted accordingly. BA now have LCC legroom on their A32S. Times are changing.
Aircraft are vastly expensive assets and airlines have every right to configure and operate how they seek fir in order to get a return on their investment.
Supply and demand. The airlines are providing what the market is prepared to buy. With options for those who want to upgrade.
Cramped seating is nothing new. AOM, Corsair, what is now Air Caribes, Britannia and other tourist bombers have always had cramped seating 20 years ago. It did us no harm then. The thing is people still expect to pay 1996 prices and expect luxury.
Something has to give. If people aren't prepared to pay for it, then why should airlines provide it? Just look at AA who have recently gone 10Y on the 777 and have just two rows of first class on the A32S. Why? Because it was full of free upgrades. Nobody was prepared to pay for First, so they've acted accordingly. BA now have LCC legroom on their A32S. Times are changing.
Aircraft are vastly expensive assets and airlines have every right to configure and operate how they seek fir in order to get a return on their investment.
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As long as passengers prime motivation is the cheapest fares, the airlines will cut corners to ensure those fares are available. Because if they don’t their competitors surely will. I’m sure passengers will insist that they’re willing to pay more for a better travelling experience, but how much more? £30 each way? £40? I suspect that once you start getting into the realms of £50 or more, interest will rapidly wane (there is an economic term for this sort of price vs demand relationship, although I can’t remember it right now). The higher the premium, the more that pax will be inclined to suffer in cattle class.
I think there is a modest subset of the economy class travelling public who, while unwilling or unable to pay business class fares, are happy to pay significantly more for a more comfortable experience, hence the increasing availability of Premium Economy cabins (which Singapore have recently started offering, as you say). I’m actually surprised that none of the Middle Eastern carriers have started offering this yet – it would be a good differentiator to the competition.
Paxing All Over The World
Talking of American, around 2002 they had a big advertising campaign showing them removing seats and increasing the pitch. Folks love it - but not enough and the seats went back in again.
Paxing All Over The World
Regrettably, for as long as the Western world remains with a heavily depressed economy - nothing will change. I do not expect the Western economy to return to anything like the 1990s ever. We might recover a bit but as we have not yet recovered from 2008, it is clear that the 2nd Depression is going to last for some time.
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AA did have More Room Throughout Coach or something similar. The cynic in me believes that AA did this knowing that post 9/11 the planes would be a struggle to fill so removed the seats anyway boosting load factors at the same time. As soon as the market started to recover they put the seats back in.
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I really believe that we need an industry agreement (I hate to suggest legislation) that seats with less than 32 inch pitch should have no recline or very limited recline.
I really detest it when the seat in front reclines to max. Unable to access my meal tray, someones sweaty dandruff scalp right uner my nose, and my knee caps crushed.
I do take note of airlines with short pitch and large angle recline in economy, and avoid those airlines.
I really detest it when the seat in front reclines to max. Unable to access my meal tray, someones sweaty dandruff scalp right uner my nose, and my knee caps crushed.
I do take note of airlines with short pitch and large angle recline in economy, and avoid those airlines.
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As far as Long Haul is concerned, I fly Business while I can still (though barely) afford it. There will come a point one day (soon) when I will be forced to downgrade to Economy Plus (though only on sectors of maximum 8 hrs mind). With present Y cabins I will give up L/H travel rather than fly Economy. Most Economy cabins have now become intolerable. There does indeed need to be worldwide legislation for a comfortable Economy seat pitch and seat width.
