BA information on passenger' whereabouts
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA information on passenger' whereabouts
Here is the situation. My son traveled on 3/22 with BA from JFK to LHR with his Grandma on a spring brake trip (he is 8) to Italy. Their onward flight to Pisa on 3/23 as cancelled due to snow. Their cell phone ran out of juice so they couldn't keep us informed. The last info we got before they couldn't call anymore was that it may take several days. After that we got silence (my mother in law is not very technically adept, charging a US phone in the UK on a non planned hold... Probably not).
We called BA to get info on what flight they were and BA declined us, the parents, ANY information. They also declined my request to talk to Tamarra's supervisor since we were not named on the ticket (grandma bought it). We had ticket and record locator number, besides of course DOB, address etc. since the ticket was bought in the US and AA was code share I next called AA and they were very helpful up to even calling BA on my behalf. At that point my mother in law called (from Italy) so I thanked her and said not needed any more (should have find out what BA would have done in retrospect).
Question. Does BA had the right to decline the parents information on our son's whereabouts while traveling with BA and being stranded in LHR while booked on a BA flight? Is US law different than UK?
I wrote to BA but just today.
Tx much
We called BA to get info on what flight they were and BA declined us, the parents, ANY information. They also declined my request to talk to Tamarra's supervisor since we were not named on the ticket (grandma bought it). We had ticket and record locator number, besides of course DOB, address etc. since the ticket was bought in the US and AA was code share I next called AA and they were very helpful up to even calling BA on my behalf. At that point my mother in law called (from Italy) so I thanked her and said not needed any more (should have find out what BA would have done in retrospect).
Question. Does BA had the right to decline the parents information on our son's whereabouts while traveling with BA and being stranded in LHR while booked on a BA flight? Is US law different than UK?
I wrote to BA but just today.
Tx much
Last edited by grimmrad; 24th Mar 2013 at 15:55.
Just because you said you were the parent what proof does the person answering the phone have that you are the parent? Nothing. All they have is a voice that they know nothing about. If they had given information to a stranger who then misused that data how would you feel?
Next time, get a note put in the booking giving explicit permission to talk to you.
Next time, get a note put in the booking giving explicit permission to talk to you.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you didn't buy the ticket, and there are no additional notes on the booking record about you as a point of contact, then its your fault, not theirs. How do BA know you are the parents ? They're not going to waste time digging up birth records etc.
Data Protection laws are very strict in the UK.
If you want to know what can happen when protocol isn't followed, look up the story of Kate Middleton, the hospital and the australian radio station. Granted Kate isn't a minor, but it demonstrates the importance of strict telephone privacy protocol.
Data Protection laws are very strict in the UK.
If you want to know what can happen when protocol isn't followed, look up the story of Kate Middleton, the hospital and the australian radio station. Granted Kate isn't a minor, but it demonstrates the importance of strict telephone privacy protocol.
Last edited by mixture; 24th Mar 2013 at 18:24.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, to be honest that is the first time he traveled with someone else than us so it never occurred to us that there might be this problem. I had all information on him, the flight, ticket number etc. his mother was ccd on the ticket issuing email by the airline. A simple information like "they are still in London" or "en route" would have been sufficient. With the ticket itinerary on my hand I can usually track the flight but this failed in this case. It's not I am calling without any information provided by me on the identity of the person, I had the ticket number and everything. There must be privacy etc I understand. But there must also some customer service and middle way, which I still think BA failed to provide. E.g. We were never told (probably in the 10 pages of 8 pint small print) that they would decline information.
There must be privacy etc I understand.
But there must also some customer service and middle way, which I still think BA failed to provide. E.g. We were never told (probably in the 10 pages of 8 pint small print) that they would decline information.
The way to hell is paved with good intentions.
As has been said already, if information on your child was handed out to a third party, you would be screaming about BA breaching confidentiality.
Time to back off I think. You're on your own. Glad junior is none the worse.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 68
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Next time give him your iPhone. You can track it (and him - likely) with a number of apps. (Competing phones likely have the same).
And if worse comes to worse, you could even call him ...
And if worse comes to worse, you could even call him ...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, quite hostile environment here. A lot of BA followers I assume. Hope you are never in my situation.
Again - a simple "They are booked on another flight tomorrow" would have been sufficient, doesn't even need to be a flight number - could be any flight and I have no idea where exactly they were routed and when they are traveling - but I know they were taken care off. That simple information BA declined.
It's not like I was calling without any information on my side to prove that I have something to do with the child (name, DOB, address, ticket number, record locator, accompanying person). Rules are good, common sense is better - and please don't come again with its either or - it is not. In my business we have very strict policies, a lot. But on occasion in special circumstances if justified correctly we brake them, to do what is the right thing in the situation. Remember the russian officer who saw back in the sixties I believe blips on his radar screen which could have been US missiles in a first strike. He decided against it - against all rules and wisdom. The fact that he did allows me I guess to write these lines and you guys to come up with the next rant against me. (BTW I do not work in the military)
Again - a simple "They are booked on another flight tomorrow" would have been sufficient, doesn't even need to be a flight number - could be any flight and I have no idea where exactly they were routed and when they are traveling - but I know they were taken care off. That simple information BA declined.
It's not like I was calling without any information on my side to prove that I have something to do with the child (name, DOB, address, ticket number, record locator, accompanying person). Rules are good, common sense is better - and please don't come again with its either or - it is not. In my business we have very strict policies, a lot. But on occasion in special circumstances if justified correctly we brake them, to do what is the right thing in the situation. Remember the russian officer who saw back in the sixties I believe blips on his radar screen which could have been US missiles in a first strike. He decided against it - against all rules and wisdom. The fact that he did allows me I guess to write these lines and you guys to come up with the next rant against me. (BTW I do not work in the military)
Last edited by grimmrad; 25th Mar 2013 at 01:07.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my business we have very strict policies, a lot. But on occasion in special circumstances if justified correctly we brake them,
Fact is the bigger a business becomes, the more rigorously policies and procedures need to be applied because it simply isn't viable to make case-by-base exceptions when your customer base is measured in numbers of denominated in millions.
I can honestly say that if any airline gave my kids details to anybody without any evidence of who that person was then that would be the last time I, or anybody in my family, ever travelled with them. And they would be reported straight to the privacy commissioner!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 68
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally hate BA and have sworn never to fly them again.
However, there is legislation in effect which severely limits BA's ability to share data without the informed consent of the person concerned. This legislation contains additional provisions for sharing this data with entities outside of the EEA. I think that would be you.
BA's legal team clearly has instructed BA staff not to break the law and may also have issued specific instructions on the release of passenger information to third parties.
Don't blame BA, it's not their fault. If you want to blame somebody, look a little closer to home.
However, there is legislation in effect which severely limits BA's ability to share data without the informed consent of the person concerned. This legislation contains additional provisions for sharing this data with entities outside of the EEA. I think that would be you.
BA's legal team clearly has instructed BA staff not to break the law and may also have issued specific instructions on the release of passenger information to third parties.
Don't blame BA, it's not their fault. If you want to blame somebody, look a little closer to home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: up north
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's just say that you are a very wealthy family with assets in the country your child was travelling to. A criminal gang who has been monitoring your family and assets decides to take advantage of the travel chaos by raiding those assets when the family is expected to be there, but is delayed. Ringing the airline with some sob story (and bear in mind that the ticketing details etc that you gave are easly hackable by identity theft experts), the airline confirms that all is fine, they will be on a flight tomorrow, so the criminals can take advantage of the delay, safe in the knowledge that they won't be interrupted. Would you be happy that the airline have offered this customer service.
I have personal experience of being identity hi-jacked at a "secure" bank with "secure" systems, and the theft was possible only because a bank staff member responded with non SOP customer service to the criminals who had a sob story.
The fact that BA was so steadfast in refusing you any information encourages me to fly with them.
I have personal experience of being identity hi-jacked at a "secure" bank with "secure" systems, and the theft was possible only because a bank staff member responded with non SOP customer service to the criminals who had a sob story.
The fact that BA was so steadfast in refusing you any information encourages me to fly with them.
I think the OP was, for some reason, expecting sympathy and was rather surprised by the unanimity of the responses.
How else could one explain his characterization of reasoned replies as "rants"? Not to mention comparing this issue to some cold war armageddon scenario...
How else could one explain his characterization of reasoned replies as "rants"? Not to mention comparing this issue to some cold war armageddon scenario...
Last edited by Captivep; 25th Mar 2013 at 10:07.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very unfortunate and frustrating situation. However, I have to support the airline. For me the onus lay on grandma to contact you - which is in fact what she eventually did, so, no problem. To expect an airline to give confidential information to an "unknown" person over the phone was, to say the least, a little naive. Hopefully you have now learned from the experience and will make an appropriate back-up plan in the future. This isn't a rant at you, simply a point of view.
This is one of those things about travel involving your own small children. You have to take the responsibility yourself, not send the child on an intercontinental journey involving a third-country transfer with a "companion" who you state was known as not particularly travel-savvy, and whose abilities run to having their mobile phone go flat (they all last for days nowadays) at the first stopover, in midwinter, is something that probably looked convenient to you at the time, but is not a parentally-wise thing to do at all. And it's no concern of the airline, whose skills are in transportation, and indeed in complying with the law.
Next time please take the 8-year old yourself.
Next time please take the 8-year old yourself.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow again, hostile (not all here though), sorry, I stick to my opinion and don't need advice how to travel with my kids, I probably travelled more often with kids then some of you. I totally agree with the circumstances of law and privacy. My business is medicine, the biggest probably therefore in the US in terms of costs and i know all about privacy, HIPPA etc. At no time was I really worried, his grandmother is a frequent international flyer so there is no issue there and I know to whom I can give my 8 year old - heck, he would be able to get by on his own.
All I wanted to know is why BA could not give out just the simple information without any details which is they are or are not yet on their way - not where to, which flight, from where (London has several airports). With that information I would know what I wanted. If I were a criminal I still would not know with which flight, maybe they were re-routed, maybe not, I wouldn't know the time nor the airports. In short - I would not have known much more then what I would have known already (I have the ticket number, so I know the destination, BA telling or not). Its interesting that AA did try to help why the BA service was unfriendly, not explaining and not even trying to help. Yes you can hide behind laws - or you can try to use some common sense and be human. Anyway, I guess all the perfect BA lovers and lawyers here will continue to hit on me, I can live with that and I sure learned what to do next time. A) Don't fly BA and b) try to find the area on the web booking service where they actually let you enter an additional email address to confirm that you are the parent...
All I wanted to know is why BA could not give out just the simple information without any details which is they are or are not yet on their way - not where to, which flight, from where (London has several airports). With that information I would know what I wanted. If I were a criminal I still would not know with which flight, maybe they were re-routed, maybe not, I wouldn't know the time nor the airports. In short - I would not have known much more then what I would have known already (I have the ticket number, so I know the destination, BA telling or not). Its interesting that AA did try to help why the BA service was unfriendly, not explaining and not even trying to help. Yes you can hide behind laws - or you can try to use some common sense and be human. Anyway, I guess all the perfect BA lovers and lawyers here will continue to hit on me, I can live with that and I sure learned what to do next time. A) Don't fly BA and b) try to find the area on the web booking service where they actually let you enter an additional email address to confirm that you are the parent...
Last edited by grimmrad; 25th Mar 2013 at 21:48.
Grimmrad, you really are touchy about this, aren't you?
No one who replied has suggested they themselves are perfect, nor have they claimed that BA is a perfect airline. All they have said is that it is perfectly reasonable for a company to refuse to give information about one of their passengers to someone who is unable to prove that they have a right to know it.
Your contention that they show "common sense" is premised on the rather illogical basis that, given that you know you're your child's parent, BA should believe you. If you can get you head around the fact that there is no reason why they should "know" that you are the parent, then hopefully everybody's replies should make a bit more sense...
No one who replied has suggested they themselves are perfect, nor have they claimed that BA is a perfect airline. All they have said is that it is perfectly reasonable for a company to refuse to give information about one of their passengers to someone who is unable to prove that they have a right to know it.
Your contention that they show "common sense" is premised on the rather illogical basis that, given that you know you're your child's parent, BA should believe you. If you can get you head around the fact that there is no reason why they should "know" that you are the parent, then hopefully everybody's replies should make a bit more sense...
Last edited by Captivep; 25th Mar 2013 at 15:31. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All I wanted to know is why BA could not give out just the simple information without any details which is they are or are not yet on their way
As has been suggested, next time get a note put on the booking that confirms permission to talk with you. Captivep has summed things up very nicely in my opinion.