BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

[hellsbrink]

I really hope that the current reps are better and brighter than me, because I have no idea what I would do now, if I was in their shoes.

Ah, but would you have let this sort of situation develop in the first place?

[Diplome]

Litebulbs:

No need for the hard hat...not at all.

You know that I am far from anti-union and to be honest my interest in this situation lies in the rather (in my opinion) inane actions of BASSA, and observing how BA and Unite react.

It is disheartening as BASSA are branding "UNIONS" as unreasonable and Unite have not taken the bull by the horns...at a cost which they may soon feel.

As someone with a relatively good command of the Queen's English I can only say that BASSA has backed themselves into an honest to good mess. Mr. Holley can spin, but this is even at this point a loss considering what was offered previously...and most here know that Holley and Malone DO NOT speak for all Unions.

So take the hat off

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by hellsbrink

Ah, but would you have let this sort of situation develop in the first place?

Who knows. Only the people sitting round the negotiating table will actually be in a position to tell the truth on Columbus.

[Litebulbs]

Diplome

We do have different views, but that is what they are, views. Mine have changed throughout this saga, but it has taught me to become more educated (hopefully) about the correct way to do business.

Change is airlines and it is about taking a reasonable approach to the constant development.

There are two possibilities as it stands today, the current offer or the new contract. Tomorrow, there may only be one. You cannot guarantee the future and it is an almost impossible request. Would I be fearful of maintaining my position if I was on a pre 97 contract? Yes 100%. What would I be looking for if I was on it? Protection against 90 days notice. BA cannot replace 8000 plus crew overnight and they are not going to want these crew sitting at home, unless they are paid more than the whole of the salary of the new contract deal in allowances.

Principles do not make mortgage payments.

[baggersup]

Reading Mr. Holley's latest missive elsewhere exhorting the "no" voters to leave the union made me wonder (as others are on the thread) why on earth he would suggest a move that might get BASSA derecognized through low membership. On the face of it it sounds utterly barmy.

But for a sec putting myself in Mr. Holley's shoes, perhaps I'd do the same at this point. He may be smart enough now to see what's ahead.

So, given how wrapped up his ego and life are in this "mission" he has as the leader....does he sit by, let natural forces already in motion take place, another failed strike, more leaving the union in a trickle, until his tenure is up. At which point, perhaps a smart, vital and strong leader comes to the fore, leading BASSA into the future with success and wisdom--doing a 180 degrees and everybody hailing this success in his/her cooperation with BA and ehancing members' working lives?

At that point the collective saying everywhere, "thank gawd that DH guy is gone! What a complete shower HE was!" Something tells me DH does not want that legacy. Is he capable of destroying the organization altogether to keep this from happening? Does he feel that BASSA is so much his own baby that if he goes...it has to go?

Or....does DH think, given all is pretty much lost at this point, let's move as quickly as possible to get BASSA derecognized by BA with mass resignations, so I can reign over the end of BASSA and paint it as the fault of BA, demonize the airline to the nth degree on the way down, and everybody will always remember that BA destroyed BASSA, not me.

If I were DH at this point, I'd certainly be going for the latter scenario, not the former, if I had his mindset.

The simple silliness of telling more than 1500 dues paying members to leave your union now otherwise doesn't make much sense.

[Chuchinchow]

until his tenure is up

As I understand this sorry, pathetic, farrago, only Comrade Holley can decide when his term of service as branch secretary will end.

It's a little like the situation in North Korea: BASSA's (in)Glorious Leader.

[LD12986]

baggersup, I don't think he has thought anything through. He is he'll bent on getting back on BA and will not tolerate dissent. Witness the latest posts from the BASSA forum on the cabin crew thread.

[pcat160]

Duncan’s missives of the past generally began by informing the faithful as to how many gin and tonics he had consumed. I would be surprised if the latest ramblings were not partially inspired by the magic of alcohol. I think his obvious frustration with the fact that 42% of those balloted chose not to affirm the strike proposal is further warping his judgment.

[baggersup]

Too true, all.

Perhaps the aforementioned's strategy is of the type Blackadder would ruminate upon, scratching his chin and muttering to Baldrick..."i have a cunning plan...."

It just occurred to me after that barmy message he wrote that he might have a union strategy that is akin to the spurned lover: "If I can't have you...nobody can!" Kaboom.

p.s. reading some of the messages copied to the other thread from members who are now questioning things, it does seem among some that the dime has finally dropped....which is good news for pax and BA staff.

[Jipperty]

IA 4

In the light of the news that BASSA have voted for further IA and having just booked club world flights to South America between 17th & 24th Feb can I please request to the BASSA leadership that these dates are included in the planned strike action.

The 3 strike days I flew on last year were the best of all my trips ever on BA. There was a real sense of team spirit and siege mentality with all parties pulling to achieve the same objective. The strike breaking CC & VCC were superb and the banter was great.

In contrast I flew back from SIN just before Xmas and was served by 3 very miserable and matronly CC who appeared to be long past their sell by date. Might I say whilst a bit of grey hair visible on the flight deck serves to inspire confidence it does not achieve the same effect in the cabin.

The impact of IA 1, 2 & 3 was negligible and decreasing to long haul and for IA 4 I expect it will not be noticed.

Some I have spoken to tell me that the Yes vote was added to by those with no intention to strike but with a desire to expose the small minority of hard core so BA can deliver their medicine accurately.

It will be interesting to watch this closely now as the end game looks to be very near.

[ninja-lewis]

Now BA's plans are in the open I would like to send this message to
everyone who has either left BASSA, voted NO, or to a lesser extent not
voted. You have been given your say and the majority has spoken. If you
have any integrity you should accept Bill Francis's offer straight away
because your actions and votes are a tacit acceptance of what BA propose.
Don't sit back and see if your brave colleagues who voted YES can fight
your fight for you. That is cowardice, you have made your bed and now you
must lie in it, alongside Bill. Good Luck, it has been nice knowing you.

Am I right in thinking that the individual offer includes a condition such that if BA were to negotiate a better offer with the union, the individual offer would automatically match the agreed terms and conditions, putting anyone who signs it in a win-win position? If so, Holley's "you've made your bed, now lie in" rhetoric rather backfires I'd say.

[Litebulbs]

Do any of the posters on this thread believe that individual members may have taken a view that they do not believe their employer, regardless of what the union brass say?

[Dawdler]

Perhaps the aforementioned's strategy is of the type Blackadder would ruminate upon, scratching his chin and muttering to Baldrick..."i have a cunning plan...."

Is it not the case that it was Baldrick who always had the cunning plan? Which of course alway failed miserably. If TW is Blackadder perhaps DH would be Baldrick

[pcat160]

How far will Unite go?

It would be naïve to think that BASSA’s endorsement of Red Len for General Secretary came without conditions. Duncan’s (Safety Concerns) posting on this forum stated that the question of balloting for IA would be resolved with the results of the General Secretary election. Was this a “quid pro quo” or something more specific? Will Unite initiate a strike with no chance of success to placate Duncan and a handful of militants? While I do not think Unite should call a strike I actually hope they will. Assuming the strike is “legal” Unite has no big financial downside. The pain will be for the strikers. If BA take the position that the strike is “unprotected” the pain may include loss of employment. Only BA know if the airline can be operated without the services of two or three thousand current CC. If their analysis is that they can continue to operate on a reasonable basis while these employees are replaced I for one hope that strikers are terminated. BA really need to move on.

[notlangley]

'Let me die with the Philistines!' (Judges 16:30)

DH is a reincarnation of Samson - his last great act is to pull down the temple.

In the Twentieth Century did not Adolf say that the German people were not worthy of such a great leader as he - he said this while Berlin was being overrun from all sides.

Custer’s last stand.

Some leaders survived to become legends - such as
The Earl of Cardigan (The Charge of the Light Brigade).

King Pyrrhus

replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders.

Ned Ludd

Other accounts offer the less dramatic explanation that Lud was told by his father, who was a framework-knitter, to 'square his needles'; Lud took a hammer and "beat them into a heap".

We do not to know who is to blame for Pickett’s Charge, or the Battle of Somosierra.

[Joao da Silva]

Do any of the posters on this thread believe that individual members may have taken a view that they do not believe their employer, regardless of what the union brass say?

When 78% of the population polled vote for strike action, I would reflect that this suggests a major problem with industrial relations within that group of employees.

When that group of employees is about 15% of the total company workforce, that amplifies the problem, at least in my eyes.

However, this will not be a popular view on this thread, which seems to be oriented to villify one individual, who is the secretary of one of the branches of Unite, who does not even get to meet the BA team in negotiations.

[Wirbelsturm]

However, this will not be a popular view on this thread, which seems to be oriented to villify one individual, who is the secretary of one of the branches of Unite, who does not even get to meet the BA team in negotiations.

A former employee who thought he could do what he wished and dump his rostered, contracted work onto his peers as he felt his Union work was more important. An individual who advised his Union members to refuse to negotiate with the company thus removing himself from the negotiating process. An individual who has managed along with the BASSA heirarchy, over many years, to persuede his members that the Union is the ONLY source of true information and that ANYTHING from any other source are fabrications of the truth designed only to destroy the Union. One individual who, through ill thought out missives, unsubstantiated personal attacks and inconsequential whispered rumours has even managed to get up the nose of his own Union paymasters. An individual who has an agenda against the company that sacked him and seems to reach a dead end when this conflict is over thus has a vested interest in prolonging the dispute despite the damage to his members.

I'm not surprised at the result given the reasons above. The company hasn't covered itself in glory over the past decade and a big olive branch is needed. However that cannot and will not happen while the cancer that is BASSA is still there wanting to control the company. For those on the outside as passengers it is very difficult to comprehend just how difficult BASSA can be. For those of us who have been rolling eyes at the intransigence of BASSA and the abject inconvienience they have caused over the years to our passengers through petty squabbles and outdated working agreements (disruption agreement 2 local nights rest for CC when FC can operate after 12 hours?) the removal of BASSA as a 'power' within the company simply cannot come soon enough.

[Joao da Silva]

A former employee who thought he could do what he wished and dump his rostered, contracted work onto his peers as he felt his Union work was more important. An individual who advised his Union members to refuse to negotiate with the company thus removing himself from the negotiating process. An individual who has managed along with the BASSA heirarchy, over many years, to persuede his members that the Union is the ONLY source of true information and that ANYTHING from any other source are fabrications of the truth designed only to destroy the Union. One individual who, through ill thought out missives, unsubstantiated personal attacks and inconsequential whispered rumours has even managed to get up the nose of his own Union paymasters. An individual who has an agenda against the company that sacked him and seems to reach a dead end when this conflict is over thus has a vested interest in prolonging the dispute despite the damage to his members.

If this man is such a Svengali, why is he not in a position of major importance, e.g. a senior politician?

Research shows that most employees consider their line manager to be the be the most accurate source of information about their company (even if they do not like the information.)

So why should BA cabin crew be different?

Litebulbs makes a very good point, which I quote below

Do any of the posters on this thread believe that individual members may have taken a view that they do not believe their employer, regardless of what the union brass say?

The evidence supports at least a few thousand taking this view.

[LD12986]

Research shows that most employees consider their line manager to be the be the most accurate source of information about their company (even if they do not like the information.)

So why should BA cabin crew be different?

Is this the nub of this dispute, with one workgroup doggedly following its union against vehement opposition from all workgroups in the rest of the company?

How many BA cabin crew actually know who their line manager is? And if so when did they last have contact with them? Isn't the source of BASSA's dominance the fact that BA has left a void where a large, remote, and mobile workforce have not been actively managed and BASSA has taken over many aspects if the traditional employer-employee relationship. Ergo, when BASSA
say jump...

[moses30u]

Delusions

Blimey, what's it like to be in this BA bubble? To suggest the impact of this ballot is negligible and that people will still book with BA, shows a remarkable narrow mind in your loyalty to all things BA. And for BA to spin that those who didn't vote, somehow voted no to strike action baffles me.

I'm out with the London catchment area, so would need a flight to Heathrow or Gatwick for my onward journeys. Given what happened during the last strikes, it's extremely unlikely my short haul flight would leave. Why would I bother going to Heathrow with another airline and have the hassle of a transfer to get to T5 for a long haul flight that may or may not go? I go through Paris or Schiphol.

Nobody in my office is booking with BA right now.

And the stupid thing is? Walsh and BA have their permanent and structural changes to cabin crew working terms and conditions. He's brought in a cheap labour resource, paying minimal wages with crap working rights.

I can see why the current crew voted for a strike so emphatically.