BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 82
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well join BASSA and go and ask.
Thanks LB - but I'm just a chicken livered coward of impeccable breeding.
However, the image that comes to mind immediately following the question, must equal 'the King has no clothes on', before the world descends upon the luckless questioner.
A large part of the conumdrum here would appear to revolve around the statement that BASSA is not a union, but just a branch of Unite. The problem with this, is that BASSA seem to have sucessfully changed their own rules and regulations, such that they seem to have almost complete autonomy in the way in which they operate.
Mind you that could just be a sweeping generalisation!!
However, the image that comes to mind immediately following the question, must equal 'the King has no clothes on', before the world descends upon the luckless questioner.
A large part of the conumdrum here would appear to revolve around the statement that BASSA is not a union, but just a branch of Unite. The problem with this, is that BASSA seem to have sucessfully changed their own rules and regulations, such that they seem to have almost complete autonomy in the way in which they operate.
Mind you that could just be a sweeping generalisation!!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From this post on the CC thread, it seems that DH does not intend on going anywhere soon:
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/429...ml#post6044063
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/429...ml#post6044063
Wow xxxxxx what a really unpleasant post. So unpleasant in fact I was tempted not to respond but because of my professional duty I will try to explain -
Firstly I am not saying mistakes have not been made along this very long road, that would have been an impossible task to deliver. No one - even you - can surely claim to be 100% perfect. But since we released news of Columbus I think our successes have outweighed our minuses. My conscience is very clean on that score.
But for many reasons (some of them impossible to be 100% public about) I believe this recent decision taken to be another plus in the overall bigger picture. Read on
As I have said many times this dispute is just not about BASSA v BA. We have to factor in a third very important party and that is Unite - and that is a political minefield that has to be "played" "nurtured" and "manipulated". No, that is not an ideal situation - I would much rather we were the master of our own destiny (and maybe we will be one day) - but for the duration of this dispute, at least, we have to make do with what we have got. Quite a few reps wanted to reject the deal, myself and Lizanne included, but weighing up the practicalities and the fact Woodley would have been reluctant to give us an IA ballot without taking the deal to the membership, we all agreed after a long debate and vote to remain neutral to enable a consultative process to take place - in contrast to 2007.
Walsh would not have that. We could have then told him where to stick it, but - and this is crucial - in the end the importance of letting YOU tell him where to stick it (if that was what you wanted) swayed the argument and we very reluctantly let the ballot progress with a red ringed "recommendation". We were confident the membership would see why we were doing what we were. We would get to where we want to be albeit it taking a little longer. Now to answer the nasty bit
As for developing some balls - not a phrase I particulary like using but let me tell you something. I have known Lizanne for 35 years, and no stewardess has "bigger balls" - in fact no person I know is as loyal, straight-talking, unafraid and unflinching against all odds. She is plain talking, fearless and probabably the most unselfish, generous person I have ever known. Your post is incredibly insulting and totally unwarranted. You should have been around on the day the Daily Mail plastered her face all over their front page in an attempt to turn the general public against her. She caught the tube to London that day - she had a duty to represent you. That xxxxxx took balls!
As for myself - well I'll just give you facts. I have participated in every strike in BA over the last 35 years and been on every picket line. I have been suspended 4 times, faced three gross misconduct charges - 2 of which I survived. Last time I was not so lucky but I knew what was right and what was wrong and gritted my teeth. So sticking up for my union rights I got dismissed. I knew all along that was my likely fate but because I believed I was in the right and could not let BA dictate to me how and when to conduct my union responsibilties I made the stand. I sacrificed a career because, for the future branch secretaries of BASSA and the future reps - it was the right thing to do and I would do it again tomorrow. And you want me to grow some balls? You do?
Well xxxxxx, the good news for you is that come Dec 2011 - 13 months time - you will be able to display how big your balls are and stand for either Chairman or Branch Secretary because I am not standing and I believe Lizanne too is stepping down. Outsiders ie non reps are quite entitled to step in and stand for the 2 leadership positions, so I will look forward to receiving nominations from those of you who think you could do a better job. Seriously xxxxxxx you seem quite a warrior so give serious consideration to putting your name forward.
Firstly I am not saying mistakes have not been made along this very long road, that would have been an impossible task to deliver. No one - even you - can surely claim to be 100% perfect. But since we released news of Columbus I think our successes have outweighed our minuses. My conscience is very clean on that score.
But for many reasons (some of them impossible to be 100% public about) I believe this recent decision taken to be another plus in the overall bigger picture. Read on
As I have said many times this dispute is just not about BASSA v BA. We have to factor in a third very important party and that is Unite - and that is a political minefield that has to be "played" "nurtured" and "manipulated". No, that is not an ideal situation - I would much rather we were the master of our own destiny (and maybe we will be one day) - but for the duration of this dispute, at least, we have to make do with what we have got. Quite a few reps wanted to reject the deal, myself and Lizanne included, but weighing up the practicalities and the fact Woodley would have been reluctant to give us an IA ballot without taking the deal to the membership, we all agreed after a long debate and vote to remain neutral to enable a consultative process to take place - in contrast to 2007.
Walsh would not have that. We could have then told him where to stick it, but - and this is crucial - in the end the importance of letting YOU tell him where to stick it (if that was what you wanted) swayed the argument and we very reluctantly let the ballot progress with a red ringed "recommendation". We were confident the membership would see why we were doing what we were. We would get to where we want to be albeit it taking a little longer. Now to answer the nasty bit
As for developing some balls - not a phrase I particulary like using but let me tell you something. I have known Lizanne for 35 years, and no stewardess has "bigger balls" - in fact no person I know is as loyal, straight-talking, unafraid and unflinching against all odds. She is plain talking, fearless and probabably the most unselfish, generous person I have ever known. Your post is incredibly insulting and totally unwarranted. You should have been around on the day the Daily Mail plastered her face all over their front page in an attempt to turn the general public against her. She caught the tube to London that day - she had a duty to represent you. That xxxxxx took balls!
As for myself - well I'll just give you facts. I have participated in every strike in BA over the last 35 years and been on every picket line. I have been suspended 4 times, faced three gross misconduct charges - 2 of which I survived. Last time I was not so lucky but I knew what was right and what was wrong and gritted my teeth. So sticking up for my union rights I got dismissed. I knew all along that was my likely fate but because I believed I was in the right and could not let BA dictate to me how and when to conduct my union responsibilties I made the stand. I sacrificed a career because, for the future branch secretaries of BASSA and the future reps - it was the right thing to do and I would do it again tomorrow. And you want me to grow some balls? You do?
Well xxxxxx, the good news for you is that come Dec 2011 - 13 months time - you will be able to display how big your balls are and stand for either Chairman or Branch Secretary because I am not standing and I believe Lizanne too is stepping down. Outsiders ie non reps are quite entitled to step in and stand for the 2 leadership positions, so I will look forward to receiving nominations from those of you who think you could do a better job. Seriously xxxxxxx you seem quite a warrior so give serious consideration to putting your name forward.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duncan's 'take' from BASSA subs
on the other forum, there is a calculation that puts this at circa £60,000 pa in addition to his BA salary, allowances etc.
surely the Revenue cannot be ignoring that sort of additional income -assuming of course the calculation is close to the truth?
this really does all come back to the membership: only they can remedy this situation. 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilance' and 'a sick society will look to sick leadership' are two phrases that come to mind. ultimately, the members must act - even if that 'act' is continuing acquiescence.
surely the Revenue cannot be ignoring that sort of additional income -assuming of course the calculation is close to the truth?
this really does all come back to the membership: only they can remedy this situation. 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilance' and 'a sick society will look to sick leadership' are two phrases that come to mind. ultimately, the members must act - even if that 'act' is continuing acquiescence.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 82
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA 2011 officer nominations
"Outsiders ie non reps are quite entitled to step in and stand for the 2 leadership positions, so I will look forward to receiving nominations from those of you who think you could do a better job."
Is this an indication that the current holders, DH & Lizanne, are going to select the nominees to recommend to the members!!
Does anyone know the current actual rules that would apply to these elections?
Is this an indication that the current holders, DH & Lizanne, are going to select the nominees to recommend to the members!!
Does anyone know the current actual rules that would apply to these elections?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so I will look forward to receiving nominations from those of you who think you could do a better job."
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Notlangley
ahhh. I see you have found another nugget of journalism in the mould of Woodward and Bernstein. Interestingly, the Grauniad article fails singulary to produce any evidence. It has all the hallmarks of a conversation with a bloke in the pub. Once again we are treated to tales of shadowy groups who are alleged to have spied on BA staff. Interesting that even Unite, when asked, refrained from comment. Maybe the upper echelons of the union are in cahoots with BA management
I'm not sure what the Guardian is seeking to achieve by publishing this article. It sounds as if the paper wishes to whip up enthusiasm amongst crew for a rejection of the offer put forward. I just hope that the paper will be on hand to provide assistance to cabin crew who might be out of pocket as a consequence. It's very easy to be an armchair Trot, especially when it's not your job on the line.
ahhh. I see you have found another nugget of journalism in the mould of Woodward and Bernstein. Interestingly, the Grauniad article fails singulary to produce any evidence. It has all the hallmarks of a conversation with a bloke in the pub. Once again we are treated to tales of shadowy groups who are alleged to have spied on BA staff. Interesting that even Unite, when asked, refrained from comment. Maybe the upper echelons of the union are in cahoots with BA management
I'm not sure what the Guardian is seeking to achieve by publishing this article. It sounds as if the paper wishes to whip up enthusiasm amongst crew for a rejection of the offer put forward. I just hope that the paper will be on hand to provide assistance to cabin crew who might be out of pocket as a consequence. It's very easy to be an armchair Trot, especially when it's not your job on the line.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Guardian Article
Now I should support it and say "look at nasty BA", but it doesn't feel right at all. Imagine the first time it was challenged in court and the damage it would do.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: -)
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I apologise Colonel White and to all others._ It was bad judgement on my part to point at this particular newspaper article._ The anonymous person who gave this malevolent material to the reporter is clearly a member of BASSA or similar whose motive is to destroy with lies and bent words._ I should have had the maturity to ignore this newspaper article.
Apologies again. Notlangley
Apologies again. Notlangley
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NotLangley
No reason to apologize. Though I agree with others about the lack of facts to give more depth to the story, it is out there and knowing that BASSA is this thin re complaints is interesting in itself.
And to members of the forum my apologies in advance for any particulary bad typing today. Injured my arm yesterday andtrying to do most computer work with one hand.
No reason to apologize. Though I agree with others about the lack of facts to give more depth to the story, it is out there and knowing that BASSA is this thin re complaints is interesting in itself.
And to members of the forum my apologies in advance for any particulary bad typing today. Injured my arm yesterday andtrying to do most computer work with one hand.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: -)
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There will be a large hole in the lives of some posters
This hanging-on-to-the-past can be a serious impairment._ It does make sense of the point in the letter that said that relations between Union and BA must improve._ I wonder if this means that the three year period before the restoration of privileges will be extended to five years, ten years, unless and until relations do improve.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joao da Silva:
A bit amusing that you make such a comment while referring to critical observations regarding Mr. Holley as "character assassination".
The situation between BA and BASSA has many individuals interested, though a full life is possible while remaining informed.
Many on this board can also walk and chew gum at the same time.
A bit amusing that you make such a comment while referring to critical observations regarding Mr. Holley as "character assassination".
The situation between BA and BASSA has many individuals interested, though a full life is possible while remaining informed.
Many on this board can also walk and chew gum at the same time.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the latest Holleygram on that other thread:
Translation: Holley, La La et al, yet again completely sidelined by Unite.
It would appear Unite and BA agreed these on Friday, and Saturday lunchtime the senior BASSA reps saw the appendix containing the litigation details for the first time.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In amongst Mr Holley’s latest ranting he does actually make an interesting point, in that those that have been dismissed don’t get to vote on an offer which would remove their ability to be represented, and funded, by Unite should they take court action over their dismissal.
I hadn’t considered that side effect and it’s an interesting situation.
That aside he does seem to be pushing the bounds of the agreement when it comes to recommending the offer, if his words collapse it and the offer is pulled (which I don’t personally think BA will do) he will have then unilaterally have decided the result for all members.
I hadn’t considered that side effect and it’s an interesting situation.
That aside he does seem to be pushing the bounds of the agreement when it comes to recommending the offer, if his words collapse it and the offer is pulled (which I don’t personally think BA will do) he will have then unilaterally have decided the result for all members.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
those that have been dismissed don’t get to vote on an offer
he will have then unilaterally have decided the result for all members.
the senior BASSA reps saw the appendix containing the litigation details for the first time
Joao is so right
Joao is so right...............
"There will be a large hole in the lives of some posters"
Those of us who have observed this dispute for the last couple of years will obviously have no life left if the dispute is ever resolved.
My immediate thought was to raise a subscription fund for bassa so that it could afford to continue to fight the good fight against BA and those others of a capitalist persuasion, who were repressing the working class CSDs with their continued accumulation of previously expropriated surplus wage labour, but then I realised that all the combatants, from the bassa branch sec and his Heritage CSDs through to the monumentally incompetent BA management shower were all very much better paid than me.
But maybe Joao has identified a new business opportunity for me. I should set up as a pprune counsellor, to counsel and give advice to those poor folk who become alienated from society and who suffer from anomie (Durkheim) if this dispute is ever resolved. (Thinks - I'll only charge 300 UKP/hour plus expenses. bassa and BA can afford that)
However, as baggersup has reminded us - follow the money. There is not much chance of my new business taking off, as the dispute will not end while the Branch sec is raking in between 5% and 8% of about 2 million UKP of subs.
Remind me when it does end. Counselling services - guaranteed outcomes, only 300 UKP /hour, and the first session at a special introductory offer of UKP 500/hour.
"There will be a large hole in the lives of some posters"
Those of us who have observed this dispute for the last couple of years will obviously have no life left if the dispute is ever resolved.
My immediate thought was to raise a subscription fund for bassa so that it could afford to continue to fight the good fight against BA and those others of a capitalist persuasion, who were repressing the working class CSDs with their continued accumulation of previously expropriated surplus wage labour, but then I realised that all the combatants, from the bassa branch sec and his Heritage CSDs through to the monumentally incompetent BA management shower were all very much better paid than me.
But maybe Joao has identified a new business opportunity for me. I should set up as a pprune counsellor, to counsel and give advice to those poor folk who become alienated from society and who suffer from anomie (Durkheim) if this dispute is ever resolved. (Thinks - I'll only charge 300 UKP/hour plus expenses. bassa and BA can afford that)
However, as baggersup has reminded us - follow the money. There is not much chance of my new business taking off, as the dispute will not end while the Branch sec is raking in between 5% and 8% of about 2 million UKP of subs.
Remind me when it does end. Counselling services - guaranteed outcomes, only 300 UKP /hour, and the first session at a special introductory offer of UKP 500/hour.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Snas:
It is an interesting issue but one that would be of concern only if the vote was close enough for those few militants who have been dismissed to have had their votes capable of making a difference in the outcome. Otherwise its a moot point.
Right now I don't think that Holley is thinking of what BA will do as much as he has been trying to manipulate around Unite. It is obvious that BASSA's conduct has been the subject of some discussion among the big guys and BASSA has received some rather firm instructions regarding their communications.
Unfortunately for Unite, Holley just can't help himself. Its almost laughable how little restraint this man has in the face of any critical commentary.
Perhaps Holley is hoping that the General Secretary election will go his way and a new, more militant Unite, will sweep in and save BASSA from this travesty of their own making.
I remain surprised that the BASSA membership can read these messages of disorganization and not demand improved representation.
Ancient Observer: Good luck with the counseling career. Keep office hours in a good sushi establishment and I might even spring for a session just for the fun of it.
...and I agree. There is a possibility that with Mr. Holley at the head there is simply no negotiated conclusion possible. Fascinating set of circumstances for BASSA and its members.
It is an interesting issue but one that would be of concern only if the vote was close enough for those few militants who have been dismissed to have had their votes capable of making a difference in the outcome. Otherwise its a moot point.
Right now I don't think that Holley is thinking of what BA will do as much as he has been trying to manipulate around Unite. It is obvious that BASSA's conduct has been the subject of some discussion among the big guys and BASSA has received some rather firm instructions regarding their communications.
Unfortunately for Unite, Holley just can't help himself. Its almost laughable how little restraint this man has in the face of any critical commentary.
Perhaps Holley is hoping that the General Secretary election will go his way and a new, more militant Unite, will sweep in and save BASSA from this travesty of their own making.
I remain surprised that the BASSA membership can read these messages of disorganization and not demand improved representation.
Ancient Observer: Good luck with the counseling career. Keep office hours in a good sushi establishment and I might even spring for a session just for the fun of it.
...and I agree. There is a possibility that with Mr. Holley at the head there is simply no negotiated conclusion possible. Fascinating set of circumstances for BASSA and its members.