BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hamptonne
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MissM, over on the crew thread, has plumbed new depths with her sophistry and her complete disregard for logic:
Our court case was not about imposition which our dispute is about.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But as is being suggested it needed Unite, BASSA & CC89 to recommend the offer, so it might, very shortly, be withdrawn!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So much for the Union (and its Branches) agreeing to recommend the offer to its members as an agreed BA stipulation in the latest Unite/BA negotiations.
Over to BA if they wish to cry 'foul' and pull the offer.......
Over to BA if they wish to cry 'foul' and pull the offer.......
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Haymaker
According to the Amicus letter, BASSA are going along with the Unite line.
Did anyonone predict this? Be honest. Better still, can anyone explain it?
Did anyonone predict this? Be honest. Better still, can anyone explain it?
My first explanation is as a sub-plot to this whole debacle BASSA & CC89 are at odds with each other and as they appear to be taking different positions we can only assume their hatred of each other is greater than what they feel individually towards BA!
I guess it could just be a throw your toys out of the pram hissy-fit in response to today's ruling.
AVF
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hamptonne
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Une folie de grandeur?
MissM (again):
That's odd - very odd. No one other than MissM herself had mentioned SOSR in the context of this morning's verdict.
Quote:
Also, if NO results in a strike, which may well be unprotected, there is always your job to lose potentially. Far from nothing I think. Unquote.
Don't go down this path again.
Or, are you suggesting that BA will issue SOSR? We have been hearing this rumour for probably a year. If they were serious about it they would have issued it a long time ago.
Let's drop SOSR.
Also, if NO results in a strike, which may well be unprotected, there is always your job to lose potentially. Far from nothing I think. Unquote.
Don't go down this path again.
Or, are you suggesting that BA will issue SOSR? We have been hearing this rumour for probably a year. If they were serious about it they would have issued it a long time ago.
Let's drop SOSR.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
Who is "Miss M"?
Given 'her' didactic outpourings, I have reservations about whether 'she' is real or not. Especially as she toes [not tows'] the Party line consistently.
However, I do not care about 'Miss M'. The endless denial of reality, the dogma and the outpourings of 'Group-speak' say enough for me.
What I DO care about is the survival of BA, in all its disparate parts.
The bickerings of a few CSDs, who need a reality check on where they stand in the 'Great Order' of employment, does not concern me one jot. The 'part-time lemmings', supplementing their partner's salary, don't bother me much either.
However, best wishes to all good BA staff, and perdition to the destructive and incompetent and idle. I do somehow feel that BA will be a better place without the latter.
Given 'her' didactic outpourings, I have reservations about whether 'she' is real or not. Especially as she toes [not tows'] the Party line consistently.
However, I do not care about 'Miss M'. The endless denial of reality, the dogma and the outpourings of 'Group-speak' say enough for me.
What I DO care about is the survival of BA, in all its disparate parts.
The bickerings of a few CSDs, who need a reality check on where they stand in the 'Great Order' of employment, does not concern me one jot. The 'part-time lemmings', supplementing their partner's salary, don't bother me much either.
However, best wishes to all good BA staff, and perdition to the destructive and incompetent and idle. I do somehow feel that BA will be a better place without the latter.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After such a long laborious attempt to understand Miss M who appears not to even understand herself with her mutterings that have no logic. She (if this a correct assumption) - but she might be a He - fires off salvo after salvo of sheer boredom and who must now decide if she is sustainable. Now it is time, in my view, that she should pack her bags and go. She has lost the plot and spoils both threads by her intransigence and boring attempts to justify herself. Since she cannot after today believe BASSA so she should leave BA too.
Its a lost cause - whoever you are - and we would all now be better of without her and get on to some level headed discussion.
Now, where were we..........................?
Its a lost cause - whoever you are - and we would all now be better of without her and get on to some level headed discussion.
Now, where were we..........................?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SALISBURY
Age: 76
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some months ago I, along with many others, declared that the dispute was over & Bassa's position was totally untenable.
As far as I can see since then nothing has changed , so moving on.......
As far as I can see since then nothing has changed , so moving on.......
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duncan opines on today's events (ignoring the Court of Appeal ruling!)
Just come in from various child minding duties (Louise on a trip) so forgive my late entry into the debate. I think I will let the dust settle a bit before making massive comment but in the meantime can I say this.
A lot of what is said publically these days has to be taken with a pinch of salt and a lot of reading between the lines.
I have no problem with AMICUS’s statement - I have been waiting for 21 years to hear them say what they said tonight and I never thought it would happen. But it has and fair play to them - they are a different beast from the one BA gave birth to back in 1989. They have every right to announce what they have - there is no real discord between us.
Obviously tactically they have chosen to "play" things differently to us. If we had done what they have now done there would be no ballot and many could then criticise us for not facilitating you, the membership, a chance to at least be be heard. My view is - and always will be - everyone has got to have a chance to cast their vote, whether they are rabid constant forum users or live in the outback of Australia with no contact with the outside world. That is a basic right of union membership and to ensure that would happen we (BASSA) had to take steps that most of us felt uncomfortable with, but it was for the greater long term good.
With the greatest of respect, something else you have to consider here. No matter how much you are - understandably - frustrated with Unite, when it comes to calling IA ballots they have the final say. So falling out with them could mean cutting off our own noses to spite our face. Think hard on that. The BASSA committee know what we are doing, this is not a 2-way dogfight between us and BA - there is a third interested party in this high stakes poker game and we must be aware of that in all our tactical moves. Everything is done with a purpose, please bear that in mind.
So where to we go from here - well WW could spit his dummy on the back of AMICUS’s statement or he might prefer to let things ride - we will know soon enough.
The ballot is still not ready to go out because BA are unhappy with us including the reps letter which we published on this website on Sunday.
Is it right that BA should dictate what we say in a preamble to a ballot, despite the fact it has been on our website? That debate was taking place tonight before AMICUS walked into the headlights.
The whole thing is quite bizarre. But please remember BA are reading every word. AMICUS BASSA and UNITE need to keep united. personallyI think WW is vulnerable, there are cracks and doubts much deeper than ours so, let’s just keep our nerve. I think there will be some more developments over the next 48 hours and I will get back to you when and if.
Please keep calm, I am not unduly worried by any of today’s events - remember this is a game of poker and that is not trying to belittle the stress, strains and confusion I know you are all feeling. Keep the Faith. It has been a year since we started down this never ending road but we have come too far to be diverted from the the cause that set us on the road in the first place .Rgds Duncan
A lot of what is said publically these days has to be taken with a pinch of salt and a lot of reading between the lines.
I have no problem with AMICUS’s statement - I have been waiting for 21 years to hear them say what they said tonight and I never thought it would happen. But it has and fair play to them - they are a different beast from the one BA gave birth to back in 1989. They have every right to announce what they have - there is no real discord between us.
Obviously tactically they have chosen to "play" things differently to us. If we had done what they have now done there would be no ballot and many could then criticise us for not facilitating you, the membership, a chance to at least be be heard. My view is - and always will be - everyone has got to have a chance to cast their vote, whether they are rabid constant forum users or live in the outback of Australia with no contact with the outside world. That is a basic right of union membership and to ensure that would happen we (BASSA) had to take steps that most of us felt uncomfortable with, but it was for the greater long term good.
With the greatest of respect, something else you have to consider here. No matter how much you are - understandably - frustrated with Unite, when it comes to calling IA ballots they have the final say. So falling out with them could mean cutting off our own noses to spite our face. Think hard on that. The BASSA committee know what we are doing, this is not a 2-way dogfight between us and BA - there is a third interested party in this high stakes poker game and we must be aware of that in all our tactical moves. Everything is done with a purpose, please bear that in mind.
So where to we go from here - well WW could spit his dummy on the back of AMICUS’s statement or he might prefer to let things ride - we will know soon enough.
The ballot is still not ready to go out because BA are unhappy with us including the reps letter which we published on this website on Sunday.
Is it right that BA should dictate what we say in a preamble to a ballot, despite the fact it has been on our website? That debate was taking place tonight before AMICUS walked into the headlights.
The whole thing is quite bizarre. But please remember BA are reading every word. AMICUS BASSA and UNITE need to keep united. personallyI think WW is vulnerable, there are cracks and doubts much deeper than ours so, let’s just keep our nerve. I think there will be some more developments over the next 48 hours and I will get back to you when and if.
Please keep calm, I am not unduly worried by any of today’s events - remember this is a game of poker and that is not trying to belittle the stress, strains and confusion I know you are all feeling. Keep the Faith. It has been a year since we started down this never ending road but we have come too far to be diverted from the the cause that set us on the road in the first place .Rgds Duncan
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given 'her' didactic outpourings, I have reservations about whether 'she' is real or not. Especially as she toes [not tows'] the Party line consistently.
However, I do not care about 'Miss M'. The endless denial of reality, the dogma and the outpourings of 'Group-speak' say enough for me.
However, I do not care about 'Miss M'. The endless denial of reality, the dogma and the outpourings of 'Group-speak' say enough for me.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More than a few of the CC are still going on about a "No right to strike" clause in the offer ............. which is not true.
Do they even read through these offers for themselves, or just go along with what is discussed in the galley?
Do they even read through these offers for themselves, or just go along with what is discussed in the galley?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if it's too far fetched to suggest that BASSA was well aware that Amicus would do this in order to get BA to pull the offer, thus allowing them to go straight to a strike ballot.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But why would BA remove the offer?
Just because they could doesn't mean they will. It would seem to be logical for them to wait and see the result of the ballot and act accordingly rather than withdraw the offer now.
Just because they could doesn't mean they will. It would seem to be logical for them to wait and see the result of the ballot and act accordingly rather than withdraw the offer now.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with BetterByBoat, there is no value in withdrawing the offer now. All that would achieve is to pave the way towards a potential Christmas strike. The CC89/Amicus part of UNITE is relatively small and it's membership are traditionally less militant than the BASSA section. The chances are that they will have little impact on the consultative ballot, given the tendency to apathy in these exercises.
BA have all they need to withdraw the offer, or to vary it's terms - it was a condition that all parties would recommend the offer, this condition has not been met, but if there is still acceptance of the offer then this is irrelevant the dispute will be over. An end to the dispute is probably the biggest issue for BA. They also have the option of denying the CC89 members the fruits of the offer now should the deal be accepted, ie the BASSA members will get their ST seniority back in 3 years but not the CC89 people. or perhaps not the paydeal part of it, or nothing at all. They have not met their part of the deal why should they gain any benefit from it should it be accepted? How many CC89 members are there out there? Can they have any effect on BA without the support of their BASSA colleagues?
Silly and dangerous games form the irrelevant CC89 reps.
BA have all they need to withdraw the offer, or to vary it's terms - it was a condition that all parties would recommend the offer, this condition has not been met, but if there is still acceptance of the offer then this is irrelevant the dispute will be over. An end to the dispute is probably the biggest issue for BA. They also have the option of denying the CC89 members the fruits of the offer now should the deal be accepted, ie the BASSA members will get their ST seniority back in 3 years but not the CC89 people. or perhaps not the paydeal part of it, or nothing at all. They have not met their part of the deal why should they gain any benefit from it should it be accepted? How many CC89 members are there out there? Can they have any effect on BA without the support of their BASSA colleagues?
Silly and dangerous games form the irrelevant CC89 reps.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sx
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please keep calm, I am not unduly worried by any of today’s events - remember this is a game of poker and that is not trying to belittle the stress, strains and confusion I know you are all feeling. Keep the Faith. It has been a year since we started down this never ending road but we have come too far to be diverted from the the cause that set us on the road in the first place .Rgds Duncan
A rubber gun is all he has. Yet he still thinks he's king of the castle. Time for a siege I reckon. The BASSA members should get rid of him. Surely the good reps find him an embarrassment.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lisbon
Age: 51
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please may we stop the character assassinations of Duncan Holley.
Until the next elections, he is the legitimate secretary of BASSA.
Personnally, I am very much against the BASSA way of working, but character assassination is puerile and stupid.
Until the next elections, he is the legitimate secretary of BASSA.
Personnally, I am very much against the BASSA way of working, but character assassination is puerile and stupid.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cc89 rejection
is the cc89 rejection at all linked to one or more of their reps under suspension and/or threat of dismissal?
i just dont understand what the unions think can be gained by this and/or any furthur negotiations (if they bothered to attend any that is!) and/or any industrial action that would only jeapordise their members futures and careers within BA
i dont understand either how supposedly mature individuals believe the rhetoric that eminates from the unions and are not able to research the facts
i just dont understand what the unions think can be gained by this and/or any furthur negotiations (if they bothered to attend any that is!) and/or any industrial action that would only jeapordise their members futures and careers within BA
i dont understand either how supposedly mature individuals believe the rhetoric that eminates from the unions and are not able to research the facts
"The BASSA committee know what we are doing"
Whilst I agree that "character assassination is puerile and stupid"
I would be very worried by the following from bassa,
"The BASSA committee know what we are doing"
For the last 18 months, I've been convinced that this dispute is primarily the fault of BA management in the past.
However, I cannot think of a single instance in the last 18 months when "The BASSA committee know what we are doing" has been either accurate or true.
I would be very worried by the following from bassa,
"The BASSA committee know what we are doing"
For the last 18 months, I've been convinced that this dispute is primarily the fault of BA management in the past.
However, I cannot think of a single instance in the last 18 months when "The BASSA committee know what we are doing" has been either accurate or true.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is the cc89 rejection at all linked to one or more of their reps under suspension and/or threat of dismissal?
i just dont understand what the unions think can be gained by this and/or any furthur negotiations (if they bothered to attend any that is!) and/or any industrial action that would only jeapordise their members futures and careers within BA
i dont understand either how supposedly mature individuals believe the rhetoric that eminates from the unions and are not able to research the facts
i just dont understand what the unions think can be gained by this and/or any furthur negotiations (if they bothered to attend any that is!) and/or any industrial action that would only jeapordise their members futures and careers within BA
i dont understand either how supposedly mature individuals believe the rhetoric that eminates from the unions and are not able to research the facts
It would seem that in his hurry to get something moving Tony Woodley has ridden rough shod over a section of employees who will be affected, without even a nod to their thoughts.
It's amazing how T&G and Amicus are still so divided within BA. If the moderates are now becoming involved and not being as predictable as some on here thought they would be, it could become interesting again....
