BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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oh dear
Hector / Duncan appears to be in meltdown on the CC tread
Reason has gone, ranting continues - talk about split personalities, wifes CC, he's a CSD, previously an aircraft owner and then a (BA?) pilot.
Talk about lost the plot. Please, any CC reading their thread think and act, you are being treated as cannon fodder for a few individuals egos
On the positive side, more time, the better the tom crop - get my drift?
Reason has gone, ranting continues - talk about split personalities, wifes CC, he's a CSD, previously an aircraft owner and then a (BA?) pilot.
Talk about lost the plot. Please, any CC reading their thread think and act, you are being treated as cannon fodder for a few individuals egos
On the positive side, more time, the better the tom crop - get my drift?
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Everyone is allowed to post on SLF as even if we work for an airline we still travel as passengers too.
I have got the impression that most posters like the input on this thread from people in the industry. Many of the other SLF threads actually require the input of aviation workers because they are often posing questions for us to answer.
I have got the impression that most posters like the input on this thread from people in the industry. Many of the other SLF threads actually require the input of aviation workers because they are often posing questions for us to answer.
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slast: I believe that post may refer to a BASSA insider posting on the Cabin Crew forum with opinions that others may not agree with in comparison to the BASSA forum being an absolute "shutdown" regarding those not adhereing to the BASSA marching orders.
I don't believe it was directed at Ancient Observer or others on this forum in the slightest.
I don't believe it was directed at Ancient Observer or others on this forum in the slightest.
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DH may not be getting as much subscription money (if any at all), as some people think.
This is a quote from the Unite rule book (available here):
(My bolding).
Unfortunately, BASSA's rule book is not available online to the profane and, as someone else pointed out, the audited accounts are nowhere to be found. They may not even be available to members?
This is a quote from the Unite rule book (available here):
17.3 Branches shall have direct access to a proportion of membership subscriptions. Such a proportion and access arrangements to be determined by the Executive Council, and may be conditional on performed compliance with financial reporting requirements. These funds may be used to meet the cost of administering the Branch; for recruitment and other campaigns approved by the Executive Council; for local affiliations; to assist members or their dependants who have suffered misfortune; or for any other worthy cause, subject to any provisions elsewhere in these rules, and that no general purposes funds shall be used for political objects. Any payments made in connection with any form of industrial action must be made strictly in line with Executive Council guidance applicable at the time.
Unfortunately, BASSA's rule book is not available online to the profane and, as someone else pointed out, the audited accounts are nowhere to be found. They may not even be available to members?
The Monty Python version of the dispute so far. King Arthur v The Black Knight. BA v BASSA? It's funny anyway.
YouTube - ‪Monty Python-The Black Knight‬‎
YouTube - ‪Monty Python-The Black Knight‬‎
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From The Wall Street Journal regarding BA disciplinary action:
UPDATE: BA Suspends Another BASSA Representative - WSJ.com
..and a WSJ commentary regarding the BASSA/Unite disagreement. The "naughty chair" comment made me smile. It looks like BASSA's branding as unreasonable is continuing.
Is BASSA an Unruly Child for Unite in British Airways Row? - The Source - WSJ
UPDATE: BA Suspends Another BASSA Representative - WSJ.com
..and a WSJ commentary regarding the BASSA/Unite disagreement. The "naughty chair" comment made me smile. It looks like BASSA's branding as unreasonable is continuing.
Is BASSA an Unruly Child for Unite in British Airways Row? - The Source - WSJ
No
Just for clarification..............
Whilst I have worked in Aviation, I do not and have never worked for BA.
Unlike the BA folk, and many others in Aviation, I have spent many years outside Aviation, where customers really do count..
I believe that one of BA's problems - and a problem for Aviation generally, is that far too few employees have ever worked in the tough world outside Aviation.
Aviation has lived with an average growth rate of 6% per annum. Even after 9.11, this historic rate was re-established until Lehmans went down. Continued growth has led to continuous complacency.
Whilst I have worked in Aviation, I do not and have never worked for BA.
Unlike the BA folk, and many others in Aviation, I have spent many years outside Aviation, where customers really do count..
I believe that one of BA's problems - and a problem for Aviation generally, is that far too few employees have ever worked in the tough world outside Aviation.
Aviation has lived with an average growth rate of 6% per annum. Even after 9.11, this historic rate was re-established until Lehmans went down. Continued growth has led to continuous complacency.
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I've read alot of the posts on here that are clearly anti-BASSA.....esp from you Finn. I don't really come on here much but I wish BALPA had the bloody guts that BASSA has. Makes me laugh how weak our union is.
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I fail to understand how my last post could have in any way been linked to any particular poster. I just thought in this current lull of activities it was worth considering a few issues from a different perspective.
If its not ok to post in the other forum as an outsider pretending to be a BA insider, is it then ok to post here as a BA insider pretending to be an outsider?
Does it actually make any difference to the situation?
How can one effectively manage it?
If its not ok to post in the other forum as an outsider pretending to be a BA insider, is it then ok to post here as a BA insider pretending to be an outsider?
Does it actually make any difference to the situation?
How can one effectively manage it?
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I believe that the objection to Hector is not so much his many faces and occupations, its that he simply does not engage in any sort of real exchange and simply talks "at" posters rather than "to" them.
Trolls are like that.
There is also the suspicion that its Duncan Holley...and therefore not qualified to post. His writing style is similar to Mr. Holley, but he sounds a bit more sober.
Trolls are like that.
There is also the suspicion that its Duncan Holley...and therefore not qualified to post. His writing style is similar to Mr. Holley, but he sounds a bit more sober.
Last edited by Diplome; 11th Aug 2010 at 14:49.
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I would not expect any "moves" from BA, they have what they want. They have the savings that they need going forward and MF is being introduced.
BASSA are in a difficult position, they have to do something or this all dies a slow death.
If they do nothing they effectively sign their own death warrant. Having failed to achieve anything meaningful by this IA and giving in, crew will see them as ineffective and numbers will dwindle, though who will benefit from that CC89 or the PCCC remains to be seen.
Crew that commute by air and need ST to do that viably for the long term need some hope that they will get their ST back - even in some limited fashion, or they will have to consider their long term future with BA.
My gut feeling is that BASSA will have to do something before BA but what can they do that will achieve anything of value I am not sure. IA is at its most effective when used as a threat, I'm not sure that BA believe anymore that BASSA IA is an actual serious threat anymore. The classic "I am voting for a strike in order to force BA back to the negotiating table" has been proven to be a paper tiger. BASSA need a viable threat, if they do not have one they have little to bargain with. The members of BASSA who are most affected by IA so far, are probably now the ones that need a successful resolution to the dispute. This also puts pressure on BASSA to come up with something.
Quite what that action is and how successful remains to be seen.
BASSA are in a difficult position, they have to do something or this all dies a slow death.
If they do nothing they effectively sign their own death warrant. Having failed to achieve anything meaningful by this IA and giving in, crew will see them as ineffective and numbers will dwindle, though who will benefit from that CC89 or the PCCC remains to be seen.
Crew that commute by air and need ST to do that viably for the long term need some hope that they will get their ST back - even in some limited fashion, or they will have to consider their long term future with BA.
My gut feeling is that BASSA will have to do something before BA but what can they do that will achieve anything of value I am not sure. IA is at its most effective when used as a threat, I'm not sure that BA believe anymore that BASSA IA is an actual serious threat anymore. The classic "I am voting for a strike in order to force BA back to the negotiating table" has been proven to be a paper tiger. BASSA need a viable threat, if they do not have one they have little to bargain with. The members of BASSA who are most affected by IA so far, are probably now the ones that need a successful resolution to the dispute. This also puts pressure on BASSA to come up with something.
Quite what that action is and how successful remains to be seen.
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Litebulbs
What will be the next move and who will make it?
BA won't do anything. As far as they're concerned the dispute is over. There are no strikes, they've reduced headcount by about 2,000 FTE, they've got their cost reductions, they don't even have to give the pay rises they budgeted to 90% of crew. Will they do anything to provoke a reaction? I'm not sure what the upside is for them in doing so. I suspect if, between them, BA and Unite can sort out the rep problem, BA's next step would then be conciliatory. They could then move on and concentrate on the issues that really will determine WW's legacy, namely the Iberia and AA ventures.
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Would there not be a problem of a surplus of existing staff then? The headcount was reduced, but it will grow again as this new fleet develops. He still has to get the bulk of existing crew onto new contracts, or at least new working patterns, to achieve the total savings that have been stated as necessary.
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I think the problem probably lies in Unite and Bassa no longer agreeing on what to do.
I think unite wanted BASSA to recomend the membership accept the last offer and that did not happen.
When DS and TW told us we were going to get the chance to vote they said that the union would NOT try and influence the vote.
However when we got the ballot paper, the union also included a copy of the offer and basically went through it bit by bit saying how bad it was.
I think BASSA would like to take BA to court over the staff travel but I am guessing that Unite are not happy to foot the bill.
I think that maybe the silence from both Unite and BASSA is because they are in conflict with each other now maybe.
I think unite wanted BASSA to recomend the membership accept the last offer and that did not happen.
When DS and TW told us we were going to get the chance to vote they said that the union would NOT try and influence the vote.
However when we got the ballot paper, the union also included a copy of the offer and basically went through it bit by bit saying how bad it was.
I think BASSA would like to take BA to court over the staff travel but I am guessing that Unite are not happy to foot the bill.
I think that maybe the silence from both Unite and BASSA is because they are in conflict with each other now maybe.
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Good news for Unite and BA, not so good for BASSA:
BA staff close to deal - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
The issue of staffing numbers is an interesting one. The one down scheme provided savings initially required...though we now have the Mixed Fleet recruitment and they will be in operation in short order.
There will be some natural loss due to retirement, etc., but what the regular rate of that for BA Cabin Crew is not something I'm aware of. How many of the more militant individuals who lost their Staff Travel can continue paying for their lifestyle choice? Its obvious from Mr. Holley's most recent messages that BASSA plans nothing in the short term to give them a promise of relief.
Some of those airfares represent a high price to check in and punch your time clock. At what point does it become impossible?
BA staff close to deal - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
The issue of staffing numbers is an interesting one. The one down scheme provided savings initially required...though we now have the Mixed Fleet recruitment and they will be in operation in short order.
There will be some natural loss due to retirement, etc., but what the regular rate of that for BA Cabin Crew is not something I'm aware of. How many of the more militant individuals who lost their Staff Travel can continue paying for their lifestyle choice? Its obvious from Mr. Holley's most recent messages that BASSA plans nothing in the short term to give them a promise of relief.
Some of those airfares represent a high price to check in and punch your time clock. At what point does it become impossible?