BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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But for that icing to be realised, their needs to be a one for one replacement of old for new. That may take some considerable time.
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litebulbs
``But for that icing to be realised, their needs to be a one for one replacement of old for new. That may take some considerable time.``
That has always been the case in this and well documented and prepared for in BA`s proposals
Yet someone managed to scare the Bassa members with stories of 30% pay cuts, route transfers redeployment and sitting at home with no work.
So instead of a deal that compensated and protected the `legacy` crew (offered to and accepted by numbers of non Bassa members recently, albeit not as good as one Bassa refused ) the likeleyhood , unless Bassa/DH/LM come to their senses is that BA will transfer the lucrative routes to new fleet (FYI trainers have been recruited on 18 month contracts to train new fleet) and there will be a loss of earnings that may force many to seek alternative employment plus natural attrition plus crew who transfer to new fleet. That will formulate the initial growth of new fleet but you are correct that for all legacy crew to disappear some time will elapse.
``But for that icing to be realised, their needs to be a one for one replacement of old for new. That may take some considerable time.``
That has always been the case in this and well documented and prepared for in BA`s proposals
Yet someone managed to scare the Bassa members with stories of 30% pay cuts, route transfers redeployment and sitting at home with no work.
So instead of a deal that compensated and protected the `legacy` crew (offered to and accepted by numbers of non Bassa members recently, albeit not as good as one Bassa refused ) the likeleyhood , unless Bassa/DH/LM come to their senses is that BA will transfer the lucrative routes to new fleet (FYI trainers have been recruited on 18 month contracts to train new fleet) and there will be a loss of earnings that may force many to seek alternative employment plus natural attrition plus crew who transfer to new fleet. That will formulate the initial growth of new fleet but you are correct that for all legacy crew to disappear some time will elapse.
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BA's cost reduction program is based on legacy staff being around or a considerable period. However, the initial savings projected have been delivered. Indeed, I seem to remember that all of BA's better than expected full year financial performance was down to them achieving higher than expected cost savings.
BA don't need all legacy staff to go on day one, or even any time soon. The recent investor presentation forecast New Fleet would still represent a minority of crew in 10 years' time.
However, as wascrew has alluded to, if the hardcore can be persuaded to leave, then BA has the chance of speeding up those cost savings. Rejection of the latest deal gives BA both the means to speed up the process (if we believe the Ava story, commuters will be starved out soon), and some money budgeted for other purposes (pay rises) to pay off those that go and minimise the legal risk/cost. Speeding up the move to New Fleet brings forward the cost cuts. Again, some of that opportunity saving can be used to pay for higher cost staff to leave in the first place.
BA don't need all legacy staff to go on day one, or even any time soon. The recent investor presentation forecast New Fleet would still represent a minority of crew in 10 years' time.
However, as wascrew has alluded to, if the hardcore can be persuaded to leave, then BA has the chance of speeding up those cost savings. Rejection of the latest deal gives BA both the means to speed up the process (if we believe the Ava story, commuters will be starved out soon), and some money budgeted for other purposes (pay rises) to pay off those that go and minimise the legal risk/cost. Speeding up the move to New Fleet brings forward the cost cuts. Again, some of that opportunity saving can be used to pay for higher cost staff to leave in the first place.
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Litebulbs - The only significant contractual savings measure still to be agreed were the changes to the disruption agreement where I think the company wanted to remove the requirement to seek union approval before it is invoked and to remove the two night stop rule after a long range diversion.
I think the main other issue were changes to the system of variable allowances so crew did not lose out if the money trips went to Mixed Fleet and changes to the redeployment agreement.
It is for BASSA to make the next move. The company has got most, if not all, the savings it needs. Mixed Fleet is here. Non-union members have a deal that provides for two annual payrises.
BA doesn't need to do anything.
I think the main other issue were changes to the system of variable allowances so crew did not lose out if the money trips went to Mixed Fleet and changes to the redeployment agreement.
It is for BASSA to make the next move. The company has got most, if not all, the savings it needs. Mixed Fleet is here. Non-union members have a deal that provides for two annual payrises.
BA doesn't need to do anything.
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Potential Resignations
I do not think that many BASSA members could afford to resign. Apart from the "doctors, dentists and rocket scientists" that Tomato Cultivator Holley would have us believe are in their ranks, few have skill sets that could be parlayed into a job with similar take-home-pay. Then there is the CV problem. With the competition for jobs these days, how many employers would take on an ex-BA striker?
The long-range commuters who have lost Staff Travel would be small in number, and should be looking at alternative travel or accommodation to get to work.
I am convinced that BA need to remove the minority of 'rotten apples' from the barrel, both to improve the morale of the rest of the crews, as well as reassuring their loyal clients that proper levels of graceful service will be restored.
Hypothesis. If 500 of the most militant CC were to be terminated, on the grounds that BA no longer had confidence in their ability to provide the necessary 'product,' what would be the result? 500 claims for unfair dismissal, which would take months to resolve. Assuming that they were all successful, and were awarded, on average, half the legal maximum, the cost to BA would be around 15 million quid. To use that appalling phrase so beloved of the cousins, "go figure."
The long-range commuters who have lost Staff Travel would be small in number, and should be looking at alternative travel or accommodation to get to work.
I am convinced that BA need to remove the minority of 'rotten apples' from the barrel, both to improve the morale of the rest of the crews, as well as reassuring their loyal clients that proper levels of graceful service will be restored.
Hypothesis. If 500 of the most militant CC were to be terminated, on the grounds that BA no longer had confidence in their ability to provide the necessary 'product,' what would be the result? 500 claims for unfair dismissal, which would take months to resolve. Assuming that they were all successful, and were awarded, on average, half the legal maximum, the cost to BA would be around 15 million quid. To use that appalling phrase so beloved of the cousins, "go figure."
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TS
Why is BA staff the criterion ?
The sub=title says "current airline staff only " nothing about BA and there are many people who have commented on there, including Litebulbs, who have said that they are airline but not BA.
Why is BA staff the criterion ?
The sub=title says "current airline staff only " nothing about BA and there are many people who have commented on there, including Litebulbs, who have said that they are airline but not BA.
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Alpine. It is anyone that works for an airline on the cabin crew forum. I think it is that, that person said he currently worked for BA so that is what they are looking into.
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AlpineSkier:
BA staff is NOT the criteria. However being a present employee of an airline is...a reasonable requirement in my opinion.
The moderators have been rather encouraging regarding participation in the forum for those that qualify. They seem to truly want engagement from all sides. You simply have to be presently a "player" to play.
BA staff is NOT the criteria. However being a present employee of an airline is...a reasonable requirement in my opinion.
The moderators have been rather encouraging regarding participation in the forum for those that qualify. They seem to truly want engagement from all sides. You simply have to be presently a "player" to play.
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Re: What next ?
Can't see BA moving a muscle. The ball is firmly in Unite's court. Which is a bit of a problem. Unite are in the process of balloting for industrial action with the BAA. They also have a clutch of other negotiations going on, plus the looming cuts from central goverment. To cap it all, they have an election for the post of general secretary as Woodley and Simpson are due to retire. I suspect that the Unite leadership have also lost patience with the BASSA branch. I think they view BASSA now as a liability that could put the union in a very nasty position if they continue to spout more of the nonsense we have heard in the past couple of weeks. If crew have been leaving the union in any numbers, the branch organisation will be working overtime to keep their records up to date. The large difference between the numbers of strikers quoted by BA and those claimed by Unite points to possible accounting issues. Put it like this, if BA reckon that less than 5000 crew walked out, yet Unite say that over 7000 crew claimed strike pay, it does sound like some people may have been economic with the truth in claiming strike pay. Last thing the union wants is a fraud investigation, but a 30%+ difference does need explaining.
There is supposed to be an appeal against the February court case on the contractual nature of manning levels that got thrown out (Malone & Ors vs BA)
My guess is that Unite will quietly drop this. The leadership know they haven't a hope in hell of turning the clock back. I think BASSA will be read the riot act. They will be told that any further comms will only come from Unite and I think Unite will ensure BASSA hold new elections. Duncan Holley will not be able to stand and I suspect that he won't get offered any role in the union - think he's hacked off too many people. Odds are he'll opt for retirement. With a number of the reps suspended or out of the company, maybe the BASSA committee will get some new blood. The Unite executive may look to replace Lizanne Malone - her track record for attending meetings over the past year hasn't been shining. Not sure how you oust someone in her position -maybe you suggest that she retires ? If BASSA can clean their own Augean stables, they may be able to rebuild their membership.
There is supposed to be an appeal against the February court case on the contractual nature of manning levels that got thrown out (Malone & Ors vs BA)
My guess is that Unite will quietly drop this. The leadership know they haven't a hope in hell of turning the clock back. I think BASSA will be read the riot act. They will be told that any further comms will only come from Unite and I think Unite will ensure BASSA hold new elections. Duncan Holley will not be able to stand and I suspect that he won't get offered any role in the union - think he's hacked off too many people. Odds are he'll opt for retirement. With a number of the reps suspended or out of the company, maybe the BASSA committee will get some new blood. The Unite executive may look to replace Lizanne Malone - her track record for attending meetings over the past year hasn't been shining. Not sure how you oust someone in her position -maybe you suggest that she retires ? If BASSA can clean their own Augean stables, they may be able to rebuild their membership.
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If there is one thing that galvanises member support, is when the mother union tries to impose its will against elected reps.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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All Unite need to do is ensure that their rules are followed and before you comment it clearly states that they take precedent over the rules of any constituent unions.
From
.http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/054...u%E2%80%A6.pdf
1.2 This Rule Book applies to all members of the Union, and represents the entirety of the
rules applicable to members of the Union, save as explicitly provided for under this
Rule Book. For the avoidance of doubt, the Amicus and TGWU Sections ceased to
exist on the day these rules came into force and neither of those sections shall
constitute a group or association or other body or organisation of members for the
purposes of these rules
rules applicable to members of the Union, save as explicitly provided for under this
Rule Book. For the avoidance of doubt, the Amicus and TGWU Sections ceased to
exist on the day these rules came into force and neither of those sections shall
constitute a group or association or other body or organisation of members for the
purposes of these rules
.http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/054...u%E2%80%A6.pdf
Paxing All Over The World
So .. if the Unite union takes it's BAA members out on strike:
BBC News - BAA strike ballot result expected
ao that BA has to cancel some flights and then not pay some of it's crew members sector pay....
Will those members of the Unite union, picket those members of the Unite union?
Will the Unite union have sympathy for those members of the Unite union that have been inconvenienced and lost money through no fault of their own?
Just asking.
BBC News - BAA strike ballot result expected
ao that BA has to cancel some flights and then not pay some of it's crew members sector pay....
Will those members of the Unite union, picket those members of the Unite union?
Will the Unite union have sympathy for those members of the Unite union that have been inconvenienced and lost money through no fault of their own?
Just asking.
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If there is one thing that galvanises member support, is when the mother union tries to impose its will against elected reps.
I’m far from certain that many CC could actually name more than one or two of the reps and even then those names they do know may be known for the wrong reasons!
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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It amazes me how folk think that they can get away with this sort of activity without being found out.
In theory all the crew could have been discliplined for failing to report it and failing to stop it.
In theory all the crew could have been discliplined for failing to report it and failing to stop it.
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An insider said: "They rendered the crew rest area useless by pouring milk over the bunks, blocking sinks and stuffing coffee pots full of foul liquid."
The source added: "One of the people involved was suspended by post on Tuesday."
The source added: "One of the people involved was suspended by post on Tuesday."
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On the BASSA/CC89 reps, it is a salient question as to what they, in particular the senior reps have all been doing as this dispute. The last page of this documents lists more than 50 reps. Why has this dispute become focused around one (now sacked) rep?
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/AMICUS_News_Oct2009.pdf
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/AMICUS_News_Oct2009.pdf