Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)
Reload this Page >

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 3rd Oct 2010, 22:11
  #2261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

I wont even bother trying to reply to your unpleasant post. You obviously dislike BA cabin crew and seem to live in a totally different world to me.

Call 100 was right.
Betty girl is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 23:12
  #2262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
I believe that world may be called reality, ignore it at your peril! I haven't seen any unpleasant posts on here, but I have seen some realistic appraisals of where BA crew are positioned industry-wide in terms of service levels, remuneration and work ethic. It is, of course , much easier to accuse people of disliking crew than to confront something that challenges ones own perceptions.
Hand Solo is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 23:23
  #2263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Please don't think I am looking for a sympathy vote here. I'm not. I consider myself lucky to have a job at all, let alone one I actually like in these troubled times.
Diplome,

See the above. I neither need nor want your sympathy. You asked a question. I tried to explain. I could have added in the many other bits and pieces that all add up but I'd have been here forever and I sense it would have made little difference anyway. As for the special terms and conditions, I can't talk for the LHR crew as I don't know but at LGW? You must be joking! However, as you'll no doubt point out, I knew the T&C's and signed happily at the beginning but if you check back to my original post, you will see that it's not about money or the T&C's as such, or holidays and lonliness for that matter! I apologise if my explanation doesn't fit your personal requirements but there isn't a lot I can do about that.

Originally Posted by Diplome
When will Cabin Crew start getting as angry with BASSA, who created their present situation, as they seem to be with BA.
See below and I'm pretty sure Betty girl has said much the same in the past.

Originally Posted by jetset lady
Saying all of that, even knowing what I know now and feeling as I do now, I still wouldn't have gone out on strike. The reasons behind it were fundamentally flawed and my opinion on that and the antics of BASSA haven't changed in any way.
Would you like us to keep repeating it? Maybe it could be our "signatures".

Carnage Matey,

Again, I can't comment on much of your post as it seems to revolve around agreements I know nothing about. However, there is one point I'd like to raise.

I have countless examples of Club Europe pax being downgraded because there were too many of them for the matrix
This is something that also happens occasionally at LGW. And these passengers are last minute bookings. The reason the matrix is there is because these are the numbers we can realistically manage to offer the Club Service to in the time frame of the flight. Even then, they are sometimes pushing it. Take a flight I operated a while back. BOD. 1 hr 20 flight time. For some reason, a band 3. So full hot meal, with a choice of hots, plus a bar round, plus sales. 3 crew. 21 passengers in Club, (just within the Matrix) 113 down the back. Thankfully, the flight crew were aware that time would be tight and not only said they would sort themselves out apart from the safety checks but that they would slow down if neccessary. With all the will in the world, there was no way I could give the passengers the service they had paid for. I did get it completed but not in the way it should have been done, in my opinion. In this instance, if the flight had been realistically banded, it would have been a much better and more appropriate service but that's not the point I am trying to make.

So what would you rather? Take their money, pack 'em all in and to hell with the consequences or tell the last minute bookings that sorry, we have no Club seats and/or meals available but we can offer you a club seat on a later flight or an economy seat on this one? Blimey! Here's a thought. Maybe we could even change the config if we only have club seats left but not enough food/crew for those last minute passengers? Seems we can change the passenger figures easily enough!

Actually, this is a passenger thread so maybe you are the best people to ask. What would you prefer? To be told the truth and be offered a seat in economy or to pay your money for Club and experience a rushed service, possibly with no food or something we have managed to scrape together in the galley? If you'd rather the latter, then I take it all back.

Last edited by jetset lady; 3rd Oct 2010 at 23:55.
jetset lady is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 23:32
  #2264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

Carnage Matey, I will answer some of your examples because you have painted crew as difficult for following agreements that BA have put in place.
The Matrix you mention is decided by British Airways and not the union. In fact as you are well aware BA have changed ALL the crewing levels on BA E/F flights and consequentially the matrixes and as you are also well aware the union had absolutely NO input into it at all.
The crewing matrix is the level of crew BA want to operate with and has nothing to do with the union. When I first became a Purser I accepted more passengers on a flight than the matrix said (this never happens at LHR and only happens when an outstation takes a late Club booking after the flight has departed LHR) and I was told not to do it again by MY MANAGER as the service is designed around the correct level of crew and accepting more passengers than you have crew for gives a sub-standard service to all the other club passengers.

When you arrive somewhere late and don't have enough time for the required rest it is BA that delays the departure, crew do not demand or even ask for a delay it is done automatically by ops.

I just think this dispute seems to have brought out of the woodwork all sorts of people that just seem to want to have a pop at crew. It is a great shame and it is no wonder that people like me that did not strike feel almost as wretched as the strikers.

I recently had a Captain delaying a flight because he did not like the fish crew meal that had been put on for him. I'll say no more!!!
Betty girl is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 23:52
  #2265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

I tell you another thing I am sick to the back teeth of people telling me I earn too much.

I live in a small ordinary house in Maidenhead, a town close enough to travel in to LHR. I don't have a lavish life just a normal one. Like many other people I struggle to pay my bills and I have a pretty rubbish pension because it is just based on my basic salary.

Yet for some reason a load of people come on here saying that I earn too much. Apparently minimum wage is all a BA cabin crew member deserves because apparently we are greedy and lazy and don't look after our passenger. News to me.

BA just won Business Traveler best European Business airline but did anyone from BA say well done NO, did they heck.

If anything this dispute has done it has made me realise what a horrible race we humans are.
Betty girl is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2010, 23:57
  #2266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Was not the reason that the union had no input to the new crewing levels that they weren't talking to BA? I've heard numerous complaints about the new working positions on the jumbo too, and this is an area where the union could have a meaningful input, but if they are too busy saying 'no' then ultimately BA will impose in a less than ideal fashion.

On the matter of the matrix, I was flying Airbusses long before text messages were invented, so contrary to Jetsets assertion that it's all mates of pilots taking the club numbers over, it wasn't. Typically it was an evening flight ex BRU, GVA, ZRH, LIN with businessmen coming home early. I don't think anyone is realistically expecting you to feed 20 extra pax, but I've seen refusal to accommodate even one, even with catering available, and I've seen it many times. Another militant nasty is demanding 18 hours of when just a handful of minutes past the 'long day' trigger. That's not triggered by ops, I know this as I spent an hour with the purser as she tried to sort it out with them! It's these incessant spanners in the works which can exasperate other BA staff.


By the way, did you know the fish is Escolar and is banned in many countries due to the violent reactions some people have to it? Given that the pilots do fixed links at LHR and the crew meal may be the only meal for 8 hours, what do you think delaying to change to a non-poisonous fish might be prudent?
Hand Solo is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 00:06
  #2267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
PS I'm sure a thank you for winning best European business airline will appear in that new magazine we get that replaced BA News, though it'll be dedicated to all staff. What happens off the aircraft is just as important as what happens on it!
Hand Solo is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 00:22
  #2268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
On the matter of the matrix, I was flying Airbusses long before text messages were invented, so contrary to Jetsets assertion that it's all mates of pilots taking the club numbers over, it wasn't.
That wasn't what I said, Hand Solo. I actually said late bookings and friends etc of ground staff/pilots/cabin crew. (I did add CC having realised it was missing but you may not have seen it before I deleted the whole sentence) However, on reading back I also decided that that was not only unfair but also irrelevant to the point I was trying to raise with regards the service standards, hence the fact I have now taken it out.

By the way, did you know the fish is Escolar and is banned in many countries due to the violent reactions some people have to it? Given that the pilots do fixed links at LHR and the crew meal may be the only meal for 8 hours, what do you think delaying to change to a non-poisonous fish might be prudent?
If that is the case, why on earth are we being catered with it?
jetset lady is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 01:48
  #2269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
I just think this dispute seems to have brought out of the woodwork all sorts of people that just seem to want to have a pop at crew. It is a great shame and it is no wonder that people like me that did not strike feel almost as wretched as the strikers.
I would respectfully disagree, at least to the extent that your comment relates to this forum.

We are SLF, either simply passengers, premium passengers, or stockholders, in some cases all three.

Our perspective is a tad different from Cabin Crew, especially the rather militant heart of BASSA. Without being unduly harsh, I have worked long hours, my son (now in this late 20's) went to the office with me in evening hours (blanket and pillow packaged) with his homework and papers whilst I had to write a brief to be ready in the morning. Other individuals here have made sacrifices regarding family and personal time in their professions.

The "I don't feel appreciated because of something that MIGHT happen" is something we have been hearing for quite some time from both the BASSA faithful, and now others. The reality is that all of us do our work and hope for the best and deal with the same insecurity.

Reality doesn't mean that BA or your passengers don't appreciate your performance. It does mean that many of us ask that you not ask for plaudits for doing what you are paid to do. Many of us do that day in and day out. That's what we're paid to do.
Diplome is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 04:08
  #2270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 73
I tell you another thing I am sick to the back teeth of people telling me I earn too much.

The fact is you can be replaced at half of what you are being paid so maybe you are being paid too much. Rather than worrying about what Mixed Fleet is being paid maybe you should be gratified that BA is protecting your current pay. If I was BA management and reading what Cabin Crew have to say on these forums I would be thinking twice about the position of not moving all routes as soon as possible to Mixed Fleet. Nobody owes you anything and you are only worth what you are worth, if you do not believe this go into the market and see what you are worth.
pcat160 is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 07:28
  #2271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

Nice posters like Notlangley ask a question of me, that I am happy to answer and then I get days of, yes, unpleasant posts and I am one of the crew against what Bassa has done!!! Thanks a lot.
Betty girl is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 10:34
  #2272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 76
Posts: 1,309
A number of CC posting on here have, from the beginning, attempted to answer questions put by us slf in a reasonable and informative way. They are mostly the crew who didn't strike and who have been critical of Bassa.
Three I would mention in particular, JSL, BG and Tiramisu have been outstanding.
Now however, because they are also honest enough to mention that BA also have a bit of a downside they are suddenly the bad guys? It seems to me that some posters, be they flight crew or stockholders, have decided to turn on them as the enemy, possibly due to fewer pro Bassa targets being available.
How about a little more understanding folks and a little less of the boot.
Shack37 is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 12:06
  #2273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Out there, somewhere
Age: 57
Posts: 81
I second Shack37.

As I said many hundreds of posts ago, I am concerned by a cabal of people on here who seem to think that BA can do no wrong.

I have certainly seen regression at BA in the past 2-3 years that is nothing to do with the cabin crew.

The 'service' is much more process driven ('computer says no') and some good people have been disempowered.

I've just received a substantial cash payment for 'service recovery' for one incident and another large wad of miles for the same reason on another. Both incidents could have been avoided, but there was no policy to apply, so BA ends up shooting itself in the foot, at the cost of several hundred euros.

For example, why would you refuse to move a pax on a connecting flight to the flight before (on a non changeable ticket), when there is industrial action at the point of departure, causing delays and the pax is on a tight connection?

Add to that that your airline does not have a flight to the final destination the next day.

So the pax misses the flight by 30 minutes (when he could have made it by the same margin on the earlier flight, which had spare seats.)

The airline pays for hotac and meals and then re-routes the pax on a competitor the next day.

Tell me where the sense is in this decision? How much did that remove form the bottom line, when it could have been easily avoid with little or no cost and some common sense?

If that is what I am experiencing as a gold card holder, goodness knows what Betty Girl and Jetset Lady go through every day.

There are two sides to every story.
Lotpax is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 14:33
  #2274 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 64
Posts: 9,191
I have sympathies for the long term BA folks that have tried to keep 'the old style' of customer service, as much as for those that support WW however ...

Having been working in various areas for 33 years, in many different types of organisations (very small to global PLC) and in different companies etc. etc. I can say that those big companies that retain 'the old style' are very few and reducing by the month.

I was brought up in the 'Look after the company and the company will look after you' era but have seen that evaporate in my working time. Big companies are held to the mark by shareholders that are now often a millstone not a long stop and the list of reasons why this has all changed is very, very long. Yes, Unions are in there as they [some] have not changed their tune but the basic problem of a country that is still running down the hill from the good times is everywhere. Lastly, the global changes are remarkable to behold and they have a LOT further yet to run.

So - is it right for everyone to have a bitch? Yes!!! Because EVERYONE is affected and no one group can be singled out due to the fact that the current BA situation has been cooking up for 30 years. As I have said before, previous managers of BA (along with their cosy pals on the Board) have all failed in their management of the company - even Colin Marshall did not regain control of all areas but had enough money coming in the front door that he could continue to shovel it out the back.

All areas of commerce and civil service (local + national) have had to re-align themselves in the past 20 years and the airline biz is one of them. BA, being so large, is almost inevitably the last to have to do so. Not nice but every other worker in the UK has had/will have, the same story to tell.

Customer Service? Every customer wants it and almost no customer is willing to pay for it.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2010, 15:40
  #2275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 76
Posts: 1,309
Paxboy said
Customer Service? Every customer wants it and almost no customer is willing to pay for it.
And therein lies the basic problem:
Everyone is a customer and also a contractor (service provider) at some level so a domino effect is inevitable. All clients need to feel they are getting value for their money and (definitely) not being shafted, be they a pax paying 20 for a flight on Ryanair or an energy exploration company paying Ms to another company to drill a hole in the seabed.
Shack37 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.