Bing-bong "This is your captain/flight attendant/whoever..."
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ZFT writes:
I don’t know what the answer is but modern briefings are both repetitive and boring. There has to be a better way. Possibly an on line test either at home or in the departure lounge with a personal briefing for those who fail or who haven’t performed the test?
I don’t know what the answer is but modern briefings are both repetitive and boring. There has to be a better way. Possibly an on line test either at home or in the departure lounge with a personal briefing for those who fail or who haven’t performed the test?
I think others complain because the laughter/applause drowns out their last few seconds of stinky hip-hop before they *should* be stowing their iPod-thingies for take-off.
(Those, by the way, are the folks I - and prolly OyYou - will be pushing aside or walking over on the way out, unless they're also moving in the same direction. I don't have time for Darwin Award hopefuls on the ground, let alone in the air.)
ExXB writes:
The Hudson experience tells us that few people (except PPRuNers of course) pay attention or read the card.
The Hudson experience tells us that few people (except PPRuNers of course) pay attention or read the card.
And yet, most of "us" (not necessarily us here) won't take the 5 minutes to listen to a safety spiel.
Call Bell writes:
Just one point... crew demonstrate how to fasten a seatbelt but more importantly how to OPEN it.
Just one point... crew demonstrate how to fasten a seatbelt but more importantly how to OPEN it.
Also, some CC include important tips that don't seem important on first blush, but can be crucial when the sh!t hits the fan:
"And please notice that the overwing exits are smaller, those of you who are not with the circus will have to duck to avoid hitting your head against this aircraft-grade alumiwhatsit." (Heard this years ago on a CO flight.)
The thing which really p!sses me off is that being in a group of people which holds a few who have NO regard for safety brings down the survivability for all of us. It will take ALL of us working together to get out of an aircraft in a crash situation, and there are no drills for doing so - all we have are the spiels and common sense.
Fortunately, I don't have to fly as often as I did in the past. As much as I love the airline industry, the next time I fly I'm going to try to book on a private jet looking for a few pax to offset positioning costs.
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As a new poster I may well get lynched for this (metaphorically, of course) but I kind-of sympathise with the comment about over-use of the PA system in general, having just got back from a Jet2 holiday where it felt like the role of CC was as much about sales as anything else. I understand that the budget airlines bump up their profits with onboard sales but I can sympathise with people tuning out announcements when it's more likely to be the nth reminder about the fantastic range of food / drinks / fragrances / scratchcards than something genuinely important such as, you know, safety.
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Hi rachel welcome to PPrune from a CC member who loiters in this forum. It gives me perspective from the other side of my operation.
The role of CC in the eyes of the CAA is totally safety. In their eyes we can sit down for the whole flight other than to adress safety related issues.
Our employers however have a different view. Depending on your carrier we are on board to give a certain standard of service on a legacy/flag carrier.
They don't like us sitting down waiting for the very rare (thankfully) evacuation/decompression/fire/medical to come along. The common safety issues such as turbulance/cabin secure we can handle in a few minutes so in our employers eyes we are expensive for the rest of the time unless we are doing something else.
In the loco sector that is sales, sales and more sales to boost company profits. I know I am an SCCM for easyjet.
If I don't drive my crew/motivate the pax to achieve this I get hauled in to explain myself. The never ending PA's are part of this
I agree the pax do "tune out" sometimes and cannot/do not distinguish between sales and safety PA's in flight.
Maybe we should have a better system......any suggestions?
The role of CC in the eyes of the CAA is totally safety. In their eyes we can sit down for the whole flight other than to adress safety related issues.
Our employers however have a different view. Depending on your carrier we are on board to give a certain standard of service on a legacy/flag carrier.
They don't like us sitting down waiting for the very rare (thankfully) evacuation/decompression/fire/medical to come along. The common safety issues such as turbulance/cabin secure we can handle in a few minutes so in our employers eyes we are expensive for the rest of the time unless we are doing something else.
In the loco sector that is sales, sales and more sales to boost company profits. I know I am an SCCM for easyjet.
If I don't drive my crew/motivate the pax to achieve this I get hauled in to explain myself. The never ending PA's are part of this
I agree the pax do "tune out" sometimes and cannot/do not distinguish between sales and safety PA's in flight.
Maybe we should have a better system......any suggestions?
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lowcostdolly: I think you make an excellent point.
I confess that I am one of those passengers who really isn't interested in buying anything onboard, but I am always interested in an announcement from the flight deck and I always watch the safety demonstration.
It strikes me that on EZY and FR there are too many non-safety/operational PAs. I was led to believe that one of the reasons the captain makes a pre-flight announcement is so that passengers stand a better chance of recognising his/her voice in the event of an emergency. But unless you are alert, it can be difficult to distinguish all the automated/sales announcements from the captain's PA.
I have two suggestions:
1) make safety/operational PAs at a substantially higher volume so everyone can hear (it's been said before on here how frustrating it is when we can't hear you even when we want to!);
2) introduce these announcements with "This is a safety-related announcement" or similar wording to get people listening.
In my experience, the flights where passengers take the safety demo more seriously are those where the captain has emphasised - sometimes fairly firmly! - its importance.
Nick
I confess that I am one of those passengers who really isn't interested in buying anything onboard, but I am always interested in an announcement from the flight deck and I always watch the safety demonstration.
It strikes me that on EZY and FR there are too many non-safety/operational PAs. I was led to believe that one of the reasons the captain makes a pre-flight announcement is so that passengers stand a better chance of recognising his/her voice in the event of an emergency. But unless you are alert, it can be difficult to distinguish all the automated/sales announcements from the captain's PA.
I have two suggestions:
1) make safety/operational PAs at a substantially higher volume so everyone can hear (it's been said before on here how frustrating it is when we can't hear you even when we want to!);
2) introduce these announcements with "This is a safety-related announcement" or similar wording to get people listening.
In my experience, the flights where passengers take the safety demo more seriously are those where the captain has emphasised - sometimes fairly firmly! - its importance.
Nick
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Nicholas49
Nicz idea, but on the 737 the PA volume cannot be altered by the Flight Deck or Cabin Crew
make safety/operational PAs at a substantially higher volume so everyone can hear (it's been said before on here how frustrating it is when we can't hear you even when we want to!);
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Speaking of safety briefings;
MAS always state that one half of the lifejacket be inflated inside the aircraft which I always consider a bit strange.
Nine times out of ten I sit in 14A (no seat in front) next to the overwing exits and the other day I thought to myself I'd probably find it difficult to exit the aircraft with one side inflated.
MAS always state that one half of the lifejacket be inflated inside the aircraft which I always consider a bit strange.
Nine times out of ten I sit in 14A (no seat in front) next to the overwing exits and the other day I thought to myself I'd probably find it difficult to exit the aircraft with one side inflated.
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Flybe G-FBEH
The Air Accident Investigation Branch report on the emergency landing of a Flybe Embraer ERJ 190-200 G-FBEH shows very graphically how passenger evacuation can go wrong .
Air Accidents Investigation: June 2010
Air Accidents Investigation: June 2010
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Fokker 70, Friday Night, difficult to spot anyone who doesn't have a platinum or gold tag on their bags. Many people know the crew by first names and vice versa having done this trip almost every friday night and monday morning for months/years/decades... Several positioning crew including pilots. During the safety briefing around 3 or 4 people actually looked up to pay attention (The crew weren't any of those, despite obviously having come from a different/longhaul fleet, but then I would be more surprised if they did watch it). I guess at least 50% of the people onboard could recite the briefing word for word, I know I can...
Most who fly so often consider it as a bus ride from A-B and are enthralled in a book/sleeping/working and praying that they get home early, and really don't care about much else.
I'm not suggesting this is the correct way, but this is reality.
Most who fly so often consider it as a bus ride from A-B and are enthralled in a book/sleeping/working and praying that they get home early, and really don't care about much else.
I'm not suggesting this is the correct way, but this is reality.
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If you look very closely at this picture of the ditching on the Hudson you'll see one of the passengers with his life jacket on upside down. Perhaps he was bored with paying attention to the SAFETY DEMONSTRATION, no?????
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EISNN
That is a possibility, or..
a) The a/c is ditching: panic, confusion, get it on any old way..
b) The safety brief wasn't given/received as it was intended..
Either way, the pax managed to exit with the bouyancy device, so regardless, something worked, whether that was the crew shepherding out the door, or the pax next to him trying to help.
Flight is the safest form of travel....
Edited to add, or just once on your first flight, bit like crossing the road for the first time...
a) The a/c is ditching: panic, confusion, get it on any old way..
b) The safety brief wasn't given/received as it was intended..
Either way, the pax managed to exit with the bouyancy device, so regardless, something worked, whether that was the crew shepherding out the door, or the pax next to him trying to help.
Most who fly so often consider it as a bus ride from A-B and are enthralled in a book/sleeping/working and praying that they get home early, and really don't care about much else.
Based on real statistics, you would have to fly 24 hours a day for 400 years before being involved in a fatal accident.
The chances of it really are slim.
The chances of it really are slim.
Edited to add, or just once on your first flight, bit like crossing the road for the first time...
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Lifejackets
Of course it's just possible that the passenger being made fun of here for apparently not having put his lifejacket on correctly could have shoved the bladders out of the way so that he could swim - otherwise he'd be continually turned onto his back.
Meanwhile look at the woman - who is possibly a flight attendant - working on a leg injury. She's made the sensible decision not to inflate her lifejacket at all - because at that moment it would have got in the way. People aren't necessarily complete idiots - even when they're under stress.
Meanwhile look at the woman - who is possibly a flight attendant - working on a leg injury. She's made the sensible decision not to inflate her lifejacket at all - because at that moment it would have got in the way. People aren't necessarily complete idiots - even when they're under stress.
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Blah
I don't want to watch another lifejacket demonstration. I think I've got the idea now.
Listen, I read somewheres (an NTSB or FAA report perhaps) that most aviation accident-related deaths so far could've been avoided if the passengers had known what to do in a case of an emergency, i.e. had read and understood the ruddy instructions and followed the demos. So my friendly advice to you is to pay attention next time, because hey, you never know, it may even save your life
And this is coming from someone who flies HEL-TXL-HEL many times a year and _still_ reads the bloody card and watches through the demonstrations each and every time...
mslama,
I too fly a lot. But I can't say that I find the safety instruction card terribly helpful - partly because unless you know what it is trying to tell you, you're lost. For example, it shows the 'brace' position without saying what it is or when it's to be adopted.
So although it may be of some help to native language speakers, the safety demonstration is probably more use. Having said that, I was on one flight in the US some years back where FA's accent was so broad I couldn't understand her!
I too fly a lot. But I can't say that I find the safety instruction card terribly helpful - partly because unless you know what it is trying to tell you, you're lost. For example, it shows the 'brace' position without saying what it is or when it's to be adopted.
So although it may be of some help to native language speakers, the safety demonstration is probably more use. Having said that, I was on one flight in the US some years back where FA's accent was so broad I couldn't understand her!
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I read somewheres (an NTSB or FAA report perhaps) that most aviation accident-related deaths so far could've been avoided if the passengers had known what to do in a case of an emergency
There are a few well-publicised cases where better discipline would have helped - but I have difficulty in reconciling the numbers killed in catastrophic accidents with avoidable deaths. This doesn't mean that one shouldn't give the CC the simple courtesy of watching them explain emergency procedures, of course.
SO
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SO, that post is about as irrational and unhelpful as the fools logic that says seat belts in cars are pointless because "what happens if you get trapped by the belt". So you disregard something because it will not help in 2% of accidents and accept the fatality in the other 98%? That truly is bovine.
The statistic that is commonly bandied about is that in air transport accidents involving a fatality the average survival rate is 50%.
That suggests that it is very much the case that survival could be boosted by better awareness by pax.
ps. Everyone knows that aircraft don't plummet into hotels, only schools and hospitals.
The statistic that is commonly bandied about is that in air transport accidents involving a fatality the average survival rate is 50%.
That suggests that it is very much the case that survival could be boosted by better awareness by pax.
ps. Everyone knows that aircraft don't plummet into hotels, only schools and hospitals.
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Agaricus bisporus
I would be indebted to you to learn where I brought into question the value of having passengers well briefed. Moreover, I explicitly stated that it's worthwhile paying attention to the safety tutorial.
The point that I was making was that I am unconvinced that msalama's assertion that most aviation deaths could have been prevented by passengers doing the right thing had good grounding. Furthermore, I would be happy to be refuted if you could render some substance to your claims.
Let me be quite clear about this. In a survivable accident, where the aircraft is intact and the personnel are still able to organise an orderly evacuation at 0 feet, the drill should be known. Whether it can be practised or not is questionable, but the number of people attempting to take their duty-free with them might be diminished. Slightly.
By and large, though, your chances of survival will depend upon whether you're at the back of an intact piece of aircraft, or if you're in First and the nose has broken clear, not if you know that you have a whistle.
SO
Sadly, Concorde went into a hotel
I would be indebted to you to learn where I brought into question the value of having passengers well briefed. Moreover, I explicitly stated that it's worthwhile paying attention to the safety tutorial.
The point that I was making was that I am unconvinced that msalama's assertion that most aviation deaths could have been prevented by passengers doing the right thing had good grounding. Furthermore, I would be happy to be refuted if you could render some substance to your claims.
Let me be quite clear about this. In a survivable accident, where the aircraft is intact and the personnel are still able to organise an orderly evacuation at 0 feet, the drill should be known. Whether it can be practised or not is questionable, but the number of people attempting to take their duty-free with them might be diminished. Slightly.
By and large, though, your chances of survival will depend upon whether you're at the back of an intact piece of aircraft, or if you're in First and the nose has broken clear, not if you know that you have a whistle.
SO
Sadly, Concorde went into a hotel
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The point of this thread is ...
It seems to me that we can all agree that having all on board, particularly SLF, fully aware of a number of facts on safety issues could help save lives.
However, recent incidents: US Air in the Hudson, Air France into a ravine at Toronto, British Airways on ice at Heathrow - where no-one died does call into question the basic premis behind this theory.
I think this whole process / procedure needs a re-think. What isn't working and what is? How can things be improved?
I've got some ideas (such as posting safety videos for aeroplanes you will be taking, with a link from your e-ticket. Safety 'classes' run by airlines (some people would pay for this! etc.)) but no real answers.
In my view what is being done doesn't accomplish the goal.
However, recent incidents: US Air in the Hudson, Air France into a ravine at Toronto, British Airways on ice at Heathrow - where no-one died does call into question the basic premis behind this theory.
I think this whole process / procedure needs a re-think. What isn't working and what is? How can things be improved?
I've got some ideas (such as posting safety videos for aeroplanes you will be taking, with a link from your e-ticket. Safety 'classes' run by airlines (some people would pay for this! etc.)) but no real answers.
In my view what is being done doesn't accomplish the goal.
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Oxygen masks - how hard to pull?
The safety briefing says "pull the mask towards you to start the flow of oxygen...". But how hard? A gentle pull or a hard tug? And can you tell straightaway when it starts? Has anyone on here had to do it?