Bing-bong "This is your captain/flight attendant/whoever..."

[rgsaero]

Oh Dear Korrol! The tone of your post suggests to me that you are both impatient and intolerant, but seeing yourself as an "expert" frequent flier you should not be subject to a number of sensible - nay essential - safety briefings which are devised to ensure that EVERYONE on the aircraft knows what to do in normal and emergency circumstances,

Now, as I'm over 70 and with some experience of air travel I listen carefully every time, as every a/c is different. My "experience" started in 1951 and I'm still a frequent flier. (First outing was in 1951 LHR to Singapore in a BOAC Constellation and return in an Argonaut. Later for 30 years averaged about 150 sectors a years thru' most of Europe, Asia, Japan, South and North America in everything from 707s, Tridents, DC9s, 727s, 73s, 74s, 75s, 77s, a couple of Concordes across the pond, etc, etc etc).

I still listen EVERY time! Not least because every carrier can be different. And the last thing I want is some T????R who thinks he knows it all getting in the way when I need to get out in an emergency!

So - shut up and listen for everyone else's benefit even if you do "know-it-all".

Perhaps you are a troll......

[13Alpha]

The BA strike raises an interesting question. Is it time for a root and branch change to the time-honoured rituals performed by flight-deck and cabin crew before they just get on with what they're supposed to do and take us where we've paid to go?

No.

13Alpha

[Sir Herbert Gussett]

If you're a PPL like your profile says then I hope you give your passengers a safety breifing before showing off your flying "abilities", which I hope aren't the same as your IGNORANCE.

If you don't want to listen to my cabin crew give IMPORTANT safety information, or don't want to listen to me advising of turbulence and my welcome message, THEN DO NOT GET ON MY FLIGHT.

I don't want to fly people around that think they know it all... I want everyone, that boards my aircraft, to be made fully aware of all safety information. Until you have a sensible attitude towards safety do not bother getting on any my flights.

SHG.

[BRUpax]

I'm just surprised that any of you bothered to answer this idiotic thread. Had the post remained at 0 replies the O/P would have got the message loud and clear. You've made him happy instead.

[flyblue]

BRUpax, you'd be surprised how many people think the same, and how many times we heard variations of it.

I believe that it is not very useful to label a question "idiotic" and not answer it. What is useful is to answer the question and dissipate doubts. Only understanding will bring a change in behaviour.

[matthewsjl]

It's been a while since I flew in the UK under CAA regs (been in the USA for six years) but it was my interpretation that whatever craft you fly, it's up to the PIC to ensure that a safety brief is carried out. Here in the US, you have to make pax aware of the seat belt operation and exits/methods of egress.

In the case of an airline, the safety brief is delegated to the cabin crew - but it's mandatory to my understanding.

I always try to pay attention during the briefing (even though I've heard it many times before). It's just being respectful of the crew who are trying to do their job.

What always amuses me are the people who settle in and remove their shoes straight away.... they've obviously never considered that they might need them on to get over broken bits of aircraft (that may be on fire) in a takeoff emergency.

John.

[James 1077]

The answer isn't to get rid of the safety bits at the beginning - just to make them fun to watch and informative.

Air NZ got the balance right for their domestic briefing:

[Chuchinchow]

If the OP does not like the various messsages broadcast in the course of a commercial flight he/she could remember what they say here in Jersey:

"There is always a boat in the morning"!

[PAXboy]

Korrol as you have been a member of PPRuNe for 15 months, I must presume that you have read the FAQs and searched for previous threads of this topic?

Your profile states that, as well as being PPL, you work as a 'Manager'. When you are being a passenger/customer of an airline, they are Managing you. All of the crew manage the whole flight, hardware, software and the pink squidgy-ware that have asked to be transported from A to B.

When you are managing people, you do so with a number of reasons, what your own manager tells you to do, what any regulatory authority tells you (fire precautions etc.) and then your own wealth of experience in the job. That experience will tell you what the majority of your customers are like and the kind of guidance they need. Unless, of course, you only manage THINGS and not people.

Lastly, just because flying is statistically so safe, ask the families of the folks on these flights - all details from the main R&N forum:

• Afriqiyah Airbus 330 Crash
• AF 447 (OK, no survivors but there might have been)
• Air India Express B738
• BA038 (B777)
• Cockpit Fire Diverts UA 757 to IAD

[Di_Vosh]

Korrol is clearly a troll...

[PAXboy]

I hope that Korrol is a troll but the thread is still useful for future enquiries of a similar nature!

[TRX75]

A former US Secretary of Defense once said (although in an entirely different context)

......there are known "knowns." There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.

His words were widely mocked as gibberish at the time IIRC - mainly by journalists - you know - those people whose business is words! - but I've found it to be a good philosophy to live by in my life.
It may happen that one day, right after that bing-bong, you get to know something you didn't know you didn't know....and it could possibly save your life in a sticky situation.

[etrang]

Of course there are good reasons for the safety announcements, but the OP has raised a valid issue. Are the current proceedures the best way to do them - as has been pointed out many people just ignore them because they are so repetitive, its shouldn't be impossible to improve the system.

[Bealzebub]

Why do cabin crew and flight crew love the sound of their own dreary voices so much?

Most don't. In fact it is often something of a nuisance to have to address passengers when the very short interval between the last of them boarding, and the completion of checks, is all constrained by the need to get the aircraft moving in order to comply with slots, and avoid lengthy delays that inconvenience everybody. However there are legal requirements that fall to the captain of a flight and in turn to the crew to ensure that passengers are properly and adequately briefed. It would be quicker to say, "listen carefully because your life might depend on this in a few minutes." However it is deemed more sensible to adopt a low key, more professional, and courteous approach. Whether you like it or not, and that takes a little more time.

Why are we instructed to do this and do that and "wait until the seat belt sign is extinguished", and all the rest of this ritual of rubbish we have to put up with day after day.

Because the regulatory authority places a a statutory requirement on us to ensure that these things are both briefed and complied with. In addition it also provides us with the necessary defence to your potential legal counsels claims of negligence when you subsequently suffer loss or injury by failing to comply with these requirements.

I don't want to watch another lifejacket demonstration. I think I've got the idea now.
I don't want to be told how to fasten my seat belt - it's blindingly obvious.

No, I don't want to have to deliver another take off safety briefing to my co-pilot, but I do. The reason is, because it refreshes information that needs to be in the short term memory in the event of an emergency. You might be surprised to learn that the biggest single impediment to evacuation is people failing to release their seatbelts. Why, if it so blindingly obvious? The answer is, that in times of severe stress the brain adopts a survival (fight or flight) mode. During that time it tends to shut down superficial reasoning and memory. This results in primary reaction relying on what is in the short term memory (hence the pre-flight briefing) and what is deeply instinctive. In the case of the latter, what is instinctive to most people regarding seatbelts, are the ones they have in their cars. They fasten at the side of the seat, which is where poorly briefed people will often spend an inordinate amount of time looking for the release. It is therefore important that the short term memory is effective in overriding the instinctive response, and this is best achieved by a briefing shortly before the event, that is listened to and understood.

As for lifejackets, in my company we have 6 different types of lifejacket. Some are specifically for adults, some for children, some for both adults and children and some for infants. It is crucially important that you know when and when not to inflate them. Likewise where to find them. Again this needs to be ingrained in your short term memory, not remembered vaguely from your last flight.

I don't need to be reminded to read the safety card - we know how to evacuate the aircraft -

Well, those of us that practice it on a regular basis, know that every evacuation is likely to be different and that we can never know how an aircraft will actually be evacuated until that actual emergency occurs. However if you search youtube, I am sure you will find plenty of videos of real evacuations where the "know it all -yawn" passenger has decided to evacuate with his luggage, which then spills at the bottom of the slide and impedes the exit path. You know how to evacuate the aircraft, means you have re-briefed yourself (the safety card) and watched and listened prior to take off.

in reality it's every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost.

Clutching his briefcase no doubt! In fact an effective evacuation requires common sense, teamwork, and informed people. Teamwork isn't just from the crew, it comes from the passengers as well. Obviously they don't spend days every year practicing and testing these procedures, so it is important that they have a short term memory refresher, and basic knowledge prior to every take-off. What you have described is likely to result in additional casualities, and is the likely result of the selfish ill informed and poorly briefed individual.

And I really don't give a damn what the name is of the captain of the plane - any more than I care who the driver is of my intercity train.
So why don't the cabin crew and flight crew do us all a favour and shut up?

Great, because we don't want a Christmas card from you. We just want you to listen and try and contribute to the overall safety of the operation. In order to comply with the legislative requirement of our charges, we have to communicate. That can't be done by shutting up. Communication is the key tool to safety in our profession and if we fail to provide the best level of safety that is practical, we are not doing you a favour at all.

I realize that your post is so ill informed, selfish and moronic in content, that it must have been made simply to elicit the predicted response. Nevertheless it is a good springboard for reminding people why we do these seemingly repetitive communications, and why they are so important. Obviously the vast majority of passengers already know much of this, but like yourself there is always the odd one that doesn't.

Whilst it is clearly tempting to say that you can adopt your own stance and burn in your seat for all anyone cares, the truth is that we are all charged with a moral and legal responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen. Likewise none of us would want to live with the thought that somebody had needlessly perished on our flight, even if they were selfish or a complete moron!

(Bing-Bong!)

[Pohutu]

Despite the tone of the OP, I think it has usefully raised the question of how best to get safety information to passengers. I try hard to listen to the safety briefing, but the modern airport experience tends to turn my brain to cream cheese, so I find I do sometimes miss bits.

Bealzebub said

It would be quicker to say, "listen carefully because your life might depend on this in a few minutes." However it is deemed more sensible to adopt a low key, more professional, and courteous approach.

This is a tough one. A low key approach full of euphemisms ('in the unlikely event of a landing over water') will prevent panic amongst the passengers in relation to a very unlikely event. But it doesn't give people a reason to pay attention. Scaring the bejaysus out of them - 'if the plane crashes, we'd like to help get as many of you out alive as possible' - might just get some attention.

Or perhaps airlines need to find some way of getting passengers involved in the process. How about a scratchcard with the locations of the emergency exits on, with one winner per flight?

[Torque2]

Korrol..PPL..Likes flying and sailing and is a manager. Are you any good at any of the those things? Do you perform checklists thoroughly, have you read the manual for your aircraft type (more than once perhaps?), keep up to date with the constantly changing notams etc, do you wear a lifejacket whilst sailing and perhaps brief your crew/passengers on safety and as a manager do you keep your staff constantly informed of whats going on?...It wouldn't seem so with the nature of your comments.

The reason that things are done at the times that they are, such as the emergency briefing on board instead of in the lounge allows for last minute passengers to be included, also that it is the Captains responsibility to have that information on safety passed to the passengers before take-off. His responsibility to the passengers begins when he is on board and finally when the doors close.

As has been mentioned it is a constant battle to keep passengers in the safety loop as it seems that short term memory is stowed with the baggage for example the passenger getting out of his seat atan unsafe/inappropriate time, also happens just before touchdown! Perhaps you may say that this is best left to the passenegrs own initiative but litigation gets in the way so CYA! and prevent injury to others by these unconsidered actions.

If there are too may service announcements, and I admit that sometimes there may be, let the company know in writing otherwise they are unaware and nothing gets changed.

It appears that the OP just doesn't give a toss for anyone elses responsibilities just 'don't tell me anything, I know it all and can't be a£$ed understanding or conforming'. Unfortunately aviation isn't like that.

[korrol]

Apologies

Just for everyone to know, I'm no troll - in fact I'm not even sure I know what the term means.

I initiated this discussion because I'd just got off a short over-water flight with my ears ringing from the proliferation of live and pre-recorded cabin crew and flight crew announcements emanating from the loudspeaker above my head.

Of course I understand that the safety stuff is a statutory requirement but remember we SLF have already suffered a barrage of announcements and instructions inside the airport before even boarding the plane. The final one on landing enjoining us to "fly again" with the airline is often the last straw. Yesterday, if I had actually waited "until the seat-belt sign is extinguished" I'd still be on the damn plane . As it was I was the last one off . Everyone else had disembarked but it was never turned off .

Anyway I've written separately to TightSlot because, if I have overstepped the boundaries of what's permissible here, I wanted to apologise. It's his thread and his house and we are just guests - so it's entirely right he should expect us to abide by his rules and apologise if, occasionally, we overstep the mark. Sorry if I offended anyone and thanks for your most interesting comments.

[The SSK]

Excerpt from an inflight briefing I haven’t heard yet

‘Since this is an overland flight this aircraft does not carry life jackets, thereby saving weight, fuel, cost and environmental impact. It also allows us to shorten this safety briefing, to your benefit as well as ours’

[LCA Bound]

I am a semi regular flyer and as of yet giving a smartly dressed attractive young lady my undivided attention for a few minutes at the beginning of a flight has yet to become a chore (slightly non PC answer I know but honest)

[PAXboy]

Korrol Your reply is appreciated. For future info:

Wikipedia: Troll (Internet), an internet term for a person who wilfully, through obscene, offensive or hateful actions (a.k.a. "trolling"), attempts to disrupt a community or garner reactions, attention and controversy.