BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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I have refused to fly BA since 2005, as a result of a complete clown of a customer services rep at Manchester couldn't quite grasp a simple customer service v economics equation, and as a result I ended up getting home eight hours late. That was with BA Connect, which although not perfect, fares a lot better under Flybe. I know it wasn't part of BA mainline, but the planes were painted in the same colours and as such, the association is valid. What made it worse was trying to complain in due course. Whether by letter, telephone, fax or email, nothing in reply. I feel desperately sorry for those employees who get the thrust of how bad things are in the industry at the moment, but I hope the whole outfit goes down the tubes.
BA behaves like some last bastion of colonialism. grave intertia has prevented it from modernising and developing in line with a changing world. Any service industry has to be immensely agile to survive these days. I don't think that their competitors have wholly got it right either. We fly Virgin to tokyo every couple of months. What we get aboard is good, but on the ground, there is still a burdensomely bureaucratic rulebook which prevents some flexibility which prevents common sense decisions which would have no effect on profitability.
What I would look for in a re-born BA are the following traits:
Clean, efficient, immaculate aircraft
Helpful, intelligent, personable and knowledgeable staff
An easy to understand pricing structure
An easy to access and flexible rewards structure
'get you there - get you home' as the ethos of the business model.
not overstretched in terms of routes
Sensible density onboard in all classes
the sense to drop unprofitable routes and stick to core business
Properly staffed call centres with staff who are empowered to make decisions
A degree of humility
A service ethic rather than one of arrogance.
- too much to ask?
BA behaves like some last bastion of colonialism. grave intertia has prevented it from modernising and developing in line with a changing world. Any service industry has to be immensely agile to survive these days. I don't think that their competitors have wholly got it right either. We fly Virgin to tokyo every couple of months. What we get aboard is good, but on the ground, there is still a burdensomely bureaucratic rulebook which prevents some flexibility which prevents common sense decisions which would have no effect on profitability.
What I would look for in a re-born BA are the following traits:
Clean, efficient, immaculate aircraft
Helpful, intelligent, personable and knowledgeable staff
An easy to understand pricing structure
An easy to access and flexible rewards structure
'get you there - get you home' as the ethos of the business model.
not overstretched in terms of routes
Sensible density onboard in all classes
the sense to drop unprofitable routes and stick to core business
Properly staffed call centres with staff who are empowered to make decisions
A degree of humility
A service ethic rather than one of arrogance.
- too much to ask?
Could someone explain what if....having called a strike, BA make arrangements for leasing aeroplanes, crew etc and cancel flights. Then on the day, the CC turn up for work. (or did thay have to say they wouldn't?) You could imagine the chaos. Too late to inform people that their flight is going to be running, lots of CC reporting for work but no work to do, and so still have to be paid.
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I commented on Walsh refusing his bonus and I got this as a reply:
You can think what you like. Before you post something that isn't true, I would ask you to prove it.
The biggest problem in this dispute is the lies coming from one side.
I stand to be corrected, and will apologise if I am wrong.
I think it was deferred. He got it the following year.
The biggest problem in this dispute is the lies coming from one side.
I stand to be corrected, and will apologise if I am wrong.
You can think what you like. Before you post something that isn't true, I would ask you to prove it.
Paxing All Over The World
crewmeal
And they would also not have wasted the following:
"BA settled out of court when its lawyers found the lengths to which the company went to try to kill off Virgin. BA had a legal bill of up to £3m, damages to Branson of £500,000 and a further £110,000 to his airline." [Wikipedia for all sources under entry 'Virgin Atlantic Airways]
Once there was a mgmt that was capable of THAT, what else did they do?
STANDTO
Of course it does, it's 80+ years old and the weight of baggage (pun intended) that old companies carry is huge. In the middle years, baggage from the early years, gives them ballast and helps them along. Eventually, the baggage outweighs it's value and it starts to bring them down. There is NOTHING that can prevent that. Whether helped along by casual mgmt (as here) or by union action (as here) or by the economic situation (as here) - they are now in the endgame.
Unfortunately, 99.9% of human beings are not programmed to accept the end of a game/company/govt/life and so they keep bashing on until they are forced to stop (Maggie Thatcher). On the other hand, if mankind were not this obstinately set on improving his own personal lot the world would not be dominated by humans. Darwin was right - survival of the fittest.
referring to wascrew - I totally agree with you, but the Company would have been £300m better off now if it wasn't for those fines, which would have pleased the accountants.
"BA settled out of court when its lawyers found the lengths to which the company went to try to kill off Virgin. BA had a legal bill of up to £3m, damages to Branson of £500,000 and a further £110,000 to his airline." [Wikipedia for all sources under entry 'Virgin Atlantic Airways]
Once there was a mgmt that was capable of THAT, what else did they do?
- Frittered money on too much mgmt
- Conspired with rivals (more than once, if I recall correctly)
- Blew a hole in their reputation and finances with T5
STANDTO
BA behaves like some last bastion of colonialism.
Unfortunately, 99.9% of human beings are not programmed to accept the end of a game/company/govt/life and so they keep bashing on until they are forced to stop (Maggie Thatcher). On the other hand, if mankind were not this obstinately set on improving his own personal lot the world would not be dominated by humans. Darwin was right - survival of the fittest.
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How big are Virgin, Ryanair or Easyjet in comparison to BA?
O'Leary 782K euros including bonus' this figure is from 2003
Michael O'Leary Profile - Forbes.com
Walsh - £743K not including bonus' he turned down £550K in shares last year apparently.
BA chief Willie Walsh gets pay rise despite record losses - Times Online
Considering the fall in the exchange rates I doubt O'Leary is going to be interested.
O'Leary 782K euros including bonus' this figure is from 2003
Michael O'Leary Profile - Forbes.com
Walsh - £743K not including bonus' he turned down £550K in shares last year apparently.
BA chief Willie Walsh gets pay rise despite record losses - Times Online
Considering the fall in the exchange rates I doubt O'Leary is going to be interested.
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nowhere near 99%, never has been, certainly isn't now.
Loads and loads and loads of employees right now are accepting things are very very bad and taking redundancy/significant short working/significant pay cuts/decrease in conditions without going on strike.
Even workers in the car industry, a complete basket case only 30 years ago, are accepting significant changes so their employer might survive.
1200 people at the mrs' company were told recently that their jobs are almost certainly going. They aren't going on strike, they aren't exactly happy, but they know that walking out isn't going to do anything. Plenty of other companies are doing the same.
A significant number, certainly a large majority, of BA employees haven't had the attitude change yet that the other 1980's privatised company employees have had to go through. I suspect they never will.
Loads and loads and loads of employees right now are accepting things are very very bad and taking redundancy/significant short working/significant pay cuts/decrease in conditions without going on strike.
Even workers in the car industry, a complete basket case only 30 years ago, are accepting significant changes so their employer might survive.
1200 people at the mrs' company were told recently that their jobs are almost certainly going. They aren't going on strike, they aren't exactly happy, but they know that walking out isn't going to do anything. Plenty of other companies are doing the same.
A significant number, certainly a large majority, of BA employees haven't had the attitude change yet that the other 1980's privatised company employees have had to go through. I suspect they never will.
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The strike is beginning to crumble as the majority turn up for work
The strike is beginning to crumble as the majority of cabin crew turn up for work.
News just in from British Airways operations at both Heathrow and Gatwick conclusively demonstrates that the strike is beginning to crumble. Over 50% of cabin crew are turning up for work in defiance and as a direct challenge to the power of Unite. Pilots who had been called in to act as cabin crew are being redirected to work as pilots on the flight deck of additional services, as full cabin crew compliments are turning up for work. The atmosphere in the crew report centers is excellent with a real esprit de corps. Although it is still early to make a definite judgement on the state of the strike the signs are increasingly positive.
Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely without pay and their future employment status remains uncertain. It looks like Mr Walsh is achieving a remarkable result and for this we should all be very relieved. The United Kingdom cannot afford a return to the destructive strikes of the 70s and if BA can weather this strike then this will certainly usher in a new post militant union era.
News just in from British Airways operations at both Heathrow and Gatwick conclusively demonstrates that the strike is beginning to crumble. Over 50% of cabin crew are turning up for work in defiance and as a direct challenge to the power of Unite. Pilots who had been called in to act as cabin crew are being redirected to work as pilots on the flight deck of additional services, as full cabin crew compliments are turning up for work. The atmosphere in the crew report centers is excellent with a real esprit de corps. Although it is still early to make a definite judgement on the state of the strike the signs are increasingly positive.
Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely without pay and their future employment status remains uncertain. It looks like Mr Walsh is achieving a remarkable result and for this we should all be very relieved. The United Kingdom cannot afford a return to the destructive strikes of the 70s and if BA can weather this strike then this will certainly usher in a new post militant union era.
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Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely
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BA strike
There are two sides, but as a recent post said, time and place. Cabin crew at LGW accepted the changes. When the airline is losing one million a day, going on strike is not logical. A trade union is there to protect and serve its members, this is not happening here. There needs to be a rationalistion of terms and conditions. There needs to be a fix for the pension deficit. In this day and age what company can actually afford huge final salary pension schemes. People will lose out. It is not nice when it happens to you and I do have some sympathy for the cabin crew but they have to realise how the world works. I feel they are being buldozed into action that ulimately will cause them all more grief. The airline game is changing so fast, I feel unite should embrace change and let their members and the people who pay their wages down. Do not use the travelling public in your games to see who can be the most militant. You will lose in the end and so will members your proport to represent.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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to suspend the staff striking must be illegal
http://www.pprune.org/5584113-post3577.html
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There are two sides, but as a recent post said, time and place. Cabin crew at LGW accepted the changes. When the airline is losing one million a day, going on strike is not logical. A trade union is there to protect and serve its members, this is not happening here. There needs to be a rationalistion of terms and conditions. There needs to be a fix for the pension deficit. In this day and age what company can actually afford huge final salary pension schemes. People will lose out. It is not nice when it happens to you and I do have some sympathy for the cabin crew but they have to realise how the world works. I feel they are being buldozed into action that ulimately will cause them all more grief. The airline game is changing so fast, I feel unite should embrace change and let their members and the people who pay their wages down. Do not use the travelling public in your games to see who can be the most militant. You will lose in the end and so will members your proport to represent.
Read this quickly, because this opinion apparently is not allowed here. Even though I cancelled a BA flight due to the strike and had the hassle of changing my plans. I cancelled my flight to support the strike so I didn't mind the hassle that much. I think that Willie Walsh just wants to out-MOL, MOL. He could have averted this and got the savings he wanted. However, he has a different agenda. That is why I could not possibly support his stance.
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Quote:
Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely
Surely, if the strike is legal, to suspend the staff striking must be illegal. Looks like we're going back to the dark ages where employees had no rights whatsoever.
I'm reasonably sure that BA can't suspend striking staff indefinitely, as this would break the law. What they probably can do is suspend them for the remainder of their duty period, as the convoluted rules agreed by BA and Bassa state very clearly what BA can do if someone fails to report for work.
Cabin crew who are failing to report are being suspended indefinitely
Surely, if the strike is legal, to suspend the staff striking must be illegal. Looks like we're going back to the dark ages where employees had no rights whatsoever.
I'm reasonably sure that BA can't suspend striking staff indefinitely, as this would break the law. What they probably can do is suspend them for the remainder of their duty period, as the convoluted rules agreed by BA and Bassa state very clearly what BA can do if someone fails to report for work.
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STANDTO
What I would look for in a re-born BA are the following traits:
Clean, efficient, immaculate aircraft
Helpful, intelligent, personable and knowledgeable staff
An easy to understand pricing structure
An easy to access and flexible rewards structure
'get you there - get you home' as the ethos of the business model.
not overstretched in terms of routes
Sensible density onboard in all classes
the sense to drop unprofitable routes and stick to core business
Properly staffed call centres with staff who are empowered to make decisions
A degree of humility
A service ethic rather than one of arrogance.
- too much to ask?
Although I don't agree with all of your points I think they would be a good starting point.
In answer to your question, NO.
What I would look for in a re-born BA are the following traits:
Clean, efficient, immaculate aircraft
Helpful, intelligent, personable and knowledgeable staff
An easy to understand pricing structure
An easy to access and flexible rewards structure
'get you there - get you home' as the ethos of the business model.
not overstretched in terms of routes
Sensible density onboard in all classes
the sense to drop unprofitable routes and stick to core business
Properly staffed call centres with staff who are empowered to make decisions
A degree of humility
A service ethic rather than one of arrogance.
- too much to ask?
Although I don't agree with all of your points I think they would be a good starting point.
In answer to your question, NO.
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call100:
The point you miss is that the CC only get to vote on what the union puts before them. So, on Friday when BA presented their offer the Union did not allow their members to vote on this offer. Instead they said they could not recommend it to their members - and then announced strike dates. Since BA had only made the offer on the understanding that dates would not be announced, Unite must have known that announcing dates for a strike would cost BA a significant sum and that the offer would therefore be withdrawn.
Given that it seems around 50% of CC reported for work today it would seem likely that the majority of Unite members would have voted for the BA offer - if only they'd been allowed.
The point you miss is that the CC only get to vote on what the union puts before them. So, on Friday when BA presented their offer the Union did not allow their members to vote on this offer. Instead they said they could not recommend it to their members - and then announced strike dates. Since BA had only made the offer on the understanding that dates would not be announced, Unite must have known that announcing dates for a strike would cost BA a significant sum and that the offer would therefore be withdrawn.
Given that it seems around 50% of CC reported for work today it would seem likely that the majority of Unite members would have voted for the BA offer - if only they'd been allowed.
'The Union' is the members
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I can't comment on Willie's bonus. However, I am quite certain that there are many people who would be happy to do Willie's job for the basic salary alone, just like his cabin crew. How much does the CEO of Virgin or Ryanair or Easyjet get?
BA are reporting that 97% of Gatwick crew turned up for work (no surprise there having been shafted by BASSA in the past), and 50+% at LHR.
Unite claim there are 20 BA aircraft parked at Cardiff because BA have no crew or passengers, when people on site at Cardiff are laughing at this complete nonsense.
Where are all the striking BASSA reps?!
Last edited by ChicoG; 21st Mar 2010 at 05:27.
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Surely, if the strike is legal, to suspend the staff striking must be illegal. Looks like we're going back to the dark ages where employees had no rights whatsoever.
Industrial action
It it quite a bit of reading and is geared towards local authorities - but it is well written and easy to follow and the employment principles are general.
You may wish to jump directly to Section 3:
3 - Action against individual employees
This mentions:
... suspension without pay will only be permissible where it is specifically allowed for in an employee's contract of employment
For info - the full trade union and labour relations Act (referenced in some places in the links above) is available online at:
Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
Not for the fainthearted!
In the end if the suspensions (only speculation at this point) do go ahead, the matter would probably only be resolved by highly paid employment lawyers in the courts.
Given UNITE's luck with the courts so far, I wouldn't want to bet my mortgage on this!
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Willie Walsh is a man of his time.....
and its time he went.
How do you create a third rate cut price airline?
You take the best premium Airline in the world and put Willie Walsh in charge
Wee Willie is a hatchet man and BA shareholders will soon give him the chop if they have any sense.
...both sides 'claim an advantage'. How stupid can you get.
We fare paying passengers are so totally p....d off with BA, especially those of us who paid so much for up-coming long haul flight - and will NEVER EVER book BA again.
and its time he went.
How do you create a third rate cut price airline?
You take the best premium Airline in the world and put Willie Walsh in charge
Wee Willie is a hatchet man and BA shareholders will soon give him the chop if they have any sense.
...both sides 'claim an advantage'. How stupid can you get.
We fare paying passengers are so totally p....d off with BA, especially those of us who paid so much for up-coming long haul flight - and will NEVER EVER book BA again.