BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Qoute : Do you really think so? I don't believe it for a minute. Some bean-counter is going to say - hey look at the money we can save.
Diplome is right, it will return, it has to and it will !!
Diplome is right, it will return, it has to and it will !!
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Just to avoid any confusion.
I would not like to see the strikers return to work, their attitude thus far seen wouldn't endear me to flying BA if there was another option.
I would not like to see the strikers return to work, their attitude thus far seen wouldn't endear me to flying BA if there was another option.
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beesflyer:
Thank you, and I truly do believe that the preponderance of the evidence can lead a customer to believe that BA wishes to regain its brand and elevate its service, but that can only be accomplished through a period of rather painful confrontation.
The most obvious example of this is the "hot towel service" drama. Where BA wished to provide a service to its customers, and the BASSA led Cabin Crew said "No" and refused to perform the function at the direction of their Union.
I truly believe that BA wishes to return to delivering a premier service. Unfortunately it must go through this trial to get to the point where customers are the priority rather than an antiquated senior lead Cabin Crew.
If BA continues to hold the line and take the reins back to the airline I'm still in.
Thank you, and I truly do believe that the preponderance of the evidence can lead a customer to believe that BA wishes to regain its brand and elevate its service, but that can only be accomplished through a period of rather painful confrontation.
The most obvious example of this is the "hot towel service" drama. Where BA wished to provide a service to its customers, and the BASSA led Cabin Crew said "No" and refused to perform the function at the direction of their Union.
I truly believe that BA wishes to return to delivering a premier service. Unfortunately it must go through this trial to get to the point where customers are the priority rather than an antiquated senior lead Cabin Crew.
If BA continues to hold the line and take the reins back to the airline I'm still in.
Last edited by Diplome; 3rd Jun 2010 at 22:41.
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Institutional Investors seem very much on side with BA following today's traffic results:
FT.com / UK / Business - BA losses fail to put off investors
FT.com / UK / Business - BA losses fail to put off investors
However, a number of investors contacted by the Financial Times on Thursday remained broadly sanguine about the long-term effect of the stoppages, which are due to last at least another five days from Saturday and may continue through the summer.
Regulatory disclosures show some leading BA investors, such as Aegon Asset Management, have increased their holdings in the airline over the past week, when thousands of cabin crew were in the middle of their latest three five-day walkouts.
This was because BA’s underlying performance remained strong, Stephen Adams, Aegon’s head of UK equities, said. “We wouldn’t be adding to our shareholding if we didn’t believe in the management and the long-term future of the company,” he said.
Other investors without a stake in the company said even the prospect of strikes lasting through the busiest summer months would be bearable as long as it brought about a permanent reduction in staff costs.
“BA really doesn’t have a choice,” Paul Owens, a member of the fixed-income team at the Liontrust investment management group, said. “They have extremely high labour costs and they have to address those costs.” Mr Owens said the risks for Willie Walsh, BA chief executive, were high.
“But I think he will win and I think he will serve as a model for other managers.”
Regulatory disclosures show some leading BA investors, such as Aegon Asset Management, have increased their holdings in the airline over the past week, when thousands of cabin crew were in the middle of their latest three five-day walkouts.
This was because BA’s underlying performance remained strong, Stephen Adams, Aegon’s head of UK equities, said. “We wouldn’t be adding to our shareholding if we didn’t believe in the management and the long-term future of the company,” he said.
Other investors without a stake in the company said even the prospect of strikes lasting through the busiest summer months would be bearable as long as it brought about a permanent reduction in staff costs.
“BA really doesn’t have a choice,” Paul Owens, a member of the fixed-income team at the Liontrust investment management group, said. “They have extremely high labour costs and they have to address those costs.” Mr Owens said the risks for Willie Walsh, BA chief executive, were high.
“But I think he will win and I think he will serve as a model for other managers.”
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plane speak
Just in case any BASSA member is interested, I'll reply. The comments from Derek in Red, my own suggestions in Blue ...
5 hours more talks .... Willie not moving on no cost item .... More convinced than ever he doesn't want a settlement ...
He cannot move on no cost item, because he has been hired by the Board of Directors to not move.
If I am right that Willie doesn't want to reach a settlement someone in BA needs to get a grip of him ....
The Board of Directors 'got a grip' when they hired a CEO that they wanted to reach a settlement on their terms.
Don't take my word about Willie ... Ask why he doesn't take up my challenge to air the arguments in front of cameras ....
This is a wild guess but:- Because negotiations of staff Terms & Conditions are secret and confidential? Because interim discussions are not valid in public, only the final agreement?
Duffus
Hate to say it but, I've been saying that in here for (at least) three years. The die was cast long before the current dispute. However, this dispute has speeded up the time scale and I said that also earlier in the thread.
Derek is still tweeting.....
5 hours more talks .... Willie not moving on no cost item .... More convinced than ever he doesn't want a settlement ...
He cannot move on no cost item, because he has been hired by the Board of Directors to not move.
If I am right that Willie doesn't want to reach a settlement someone in BA needs to get a grip of him ....
The Board of Directors 'got a grip' when they hired a CEO that they wanted to reach a settlement on their terms.
Don't take my word about Willie ... Ask why he doesn't take up my challenge to air the arguments in front of cameras ....
This is a wild guess but:- Because negotiations of staff Terms & Conditions are secret and confidential? Because interim discussions are not valid in public, only the final agreement?
Duffus
So I forecast a slow and painful demise of a once great airline.
Hate to say it but, I've been saying that in here for (at least) three years. The die was cast long before the current dispute. However, this dispute has speeded up the time scale and I said that also earlier in the thread.
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PAXboy:
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
The Board isn't foolish, the City isn't foolish, and the shareholders aren't foolish, and they have all approved this action.
Perhaps, just perhaps, these individuals know more than Mr. Duncan "is there a cocktail I won't drink" Holley knows about business plans.
As much as they would like to think themselves as a factor in the rise or fall of BA, this small group of militants, through their inane and unprofessional communications, may actually be enabling BA to get on with the future.
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
The Board isn't foolish, the City isn't foolish, and the shareholders aren't foolish, and they have all approved this action.
Perhaps, just perhaps, these individuals know more than Mr. Duncan "is there a cocktail I won't drink" Holley knows about business plans.
As much as they would like to think themselves as a factor in the rise or fall of BA, this small group of militants, through their inane and unprofessional communications, may actually be enabling BA to get on with the future.
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In the Style of..
Well another fine day here in Paxland. my breakfast bill was £500! i mean i know airport franchises aren't cheap, but really!
While i was having breakfast i got talking to a disabled man who was quite upset, apparently he was trundling past Bedfont and someone slashed his tyres on his wheel chair leaving him stranded, suspicion fell on one of the 2 strikers presnt. But fortunately a volounteer cabin crew came along and fixed his tyre with a samosa and pimms paste that had been regurgitated earlier. and offered the gentleman a lift into T5 and was given complimnetary access to BA lounge and kisses from all of the female cabin crew. I had to wipe away a tear and such generosity it was very humbling.
As we were parting a cabin crew member came upto me and asked me by name if i would like to be upgraded to first? apparently the cabin crew had all clubbed together and upgraded my seat, awww bless them.
There was a minor incident, apparently a returning striker had been overheard complaining that the strikers had secret police type people, not unlike the stazi and that anyone who disagreed with them went in the black book, come the revolution!
anyway, as i said..the incident was the returning cabin crew being dragged away by some wobbly ladies chanting something about willies and they don't want them, leaving a curious chav like odour of samosa's and burgers in their wake.
Boarding the plane was a pleasure, but half of the passngers had to go on another plane. Apparently so many cabin crew were available that they might as well send another plane off and give everyone more room. Much chearing by the PAX.
Apparently some of the CC were volounteers and boy did it show. They were fast, courteous, and willing to go the extra mile..as were the normal CC, no offer of lapdances, but huge smiles from staff obviously very happy in doing a job well.
The captain even circled bedfont a couple of times he said " so it confuses the strikers on how many planes have taken off" but from what i could see from up there, there didnt appear to be anyone in attendance, but it was a tuesday, and slightly warm..and a westerly breeze, with no R in the month.
the above is a work of fiction of course, just in case some bassa mentalist doesnt realise it.
While i was having breakfast i got talking to a disabled man who was quite upset, apparently he was trundling past Bedfont and someone slashed his tyres on his wheel chair leaving him stranded, suspicion fell on one of the 2 strikers presnt. But fortunately a volounteer cabin crew came along and fixed his tyre with a samosa and pimms paste that had been regurgitated earlier. and offered the gentleman a lift into T5 and was given complimnetary access to BA lounge and kisses from all of the female cabin crew. I had to wipe away a tear and such generosity it was very humbling.
As we were parting a cabin crew member came upto me and asked me by name if i would like to be upgraded to first? apparently the cabin crew had all clubbed together and upgraded my seat, awww bless them.
There was a minor incident, apparently a returning striker had been overheard complaining that the strikers had secret police type people, not unlike the stazi and that anyone who disagreed with them went in the black book, come the revolution!
anyway, as i said..the incident was the returning cabin crew being dragged away by some wobbly ladies chanting something about willies and they don't want them, leaving a curious chav like odour of samosa's and burgers in their wake.
Boarding the plane was a pleasure, but half of the passngers had to go on another plane. Apparently so many cabin crew were available that they might as well send another plane off and give everyone more room. Much chearing by the PAX.
Apparently some of the CC were volounteers and boy did it show. They were fast, courteous, and willing to go the extra mile..as were the normal CC, no offer of lapdances, but huge smiles from staff obviously very happy in doing a job well.
The captain even circled bedfont a couple of times he said " so it confuses the strikers on how many planes have taken off" but from what i could see from up there, there didnt appear to be anyone in attendance, but it was a tuesday, and slightly warm..and a westerly breeze, with no R in the month.
the above is a work of fiction of course, just in case some bassa mentalist doesnt realise it.
and its our regular flyers which the above vcc will not see much of who appreciate us and want us to be back in the air happ. Its as simple as that.
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My company stopped using BA some months ago as they were too unreliable. I don't often visit UK, but when I do I normally fly with Virgin, whose cabin crew, despite being allegedly paid much less than BA staff, have always been very good. If BASSA win this dispute, I doubt we will ever use them again. The only way forwrad for the airline is to allow the managers to manage and for the cabin crew to get on with their jobs. To do the job well takes some practice, but is not particularly skillful as has been seen by how quickly VCC can be trained up to carry out the function. Good luck to Willie Walsh and my thoughts go to those still working despite being threatened and intimidated by these loutish, communist-led strikers.
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Diplome
Hi, sorry, it's part of a much longer series of observations in here over the years. I did not suggest that the strike will cause the downfall of BA.
I do suggest that BA is at the end of it's natural life (it's over 90 years old) and have predicted that it will not make it's centenary in it's current form. It will have been bought out or merged with another significant carrier by that time.
The current strike may hasten that to some degree, may give false hope to some but, my personal view is, that it will make no great difference to the outcome. The wheels have been turning for too long to be affected by this.
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
I do suggest that BA is at the end of it's natural life (it's over 90 years old) and have predicted that it will not make it's centenary in it's current form. It will have been bought out or merged with another significant carrier by that time.
The current strike may hasten that to some degree, may give false hope to some but, my personal view is, that it will make no great difference to the outcome. The wheels have been turning for too long to be affected by this.
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From DH...
Sorry this message is shorter than normal - hello to Ppprune or whatever it is called - I gather some sad person posts this on there 3 minutes after it goes live on our forum.
Paxing All Over The World
This marks a HUGE step forward for DH. He has just realised that there is something called the Internet, which is used to disseminate information around the world without let or hindrance from those in power. One of the key results of the Internet is that it dis-intermediates. Those that previously made a living by intermediating, are now cut out. Famously, one of the first groups to be so affected were travel agents. So it is only appropriate that airline organisations are now, too, being affected by it. It's also amusing. 
Welcome to the 21st century, DH.
Welcome to the 21st century, DH.
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Duncan Holley is aware of Pprune...very aware.
I equate his comment to regarding PPrune to his statement regarding the PCCC when he said "Who are they, never heard of them.".
Amazing that this man gets part of each and every members' dues for silly messages regarding the amount of alcohol being consumed by strikers.
I equate his comment to regarding PPrune to his statement regarding the PCCC when he said "Who are they, never heard of them.".
Amazing that this man gets part of each and every members' dues for silly messages regarding the amount of alcohol being consumed by strikers.
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Two words:
Megalomania
Cult
Once these two words apply to an organization and its leaders, reason has been lost never to return.
Have you ever tried to argue hard facts with a parroting cult member?
Didn't get far did ya?
Another feature of a cult led by megalomaniacs is that the more the pressure is put on from outside the more entrenched they become in their nutty ideas. Feelings of persecution from the outside feed their overdeveloped delusions of grandeur.
(Check out one of the BASSA faithful's assertion, for example, that we FF premium customers are gagging to have his lot back on board to serve us. And you get the picture. Sad. Very sad.)
Megalomania
Cult
Once these two words apply to an organization and its leaders, reason has been lost never to return.
Have you ever tried to argue hard facts with a parroting cult member?
Didn't get far did ya?
Another feature of a cult led by megalomaniacs is that the more the pressure is put on from outside the more entrenched they become in their nutty ideas. Feelings of persecution from the outside feed their overdeveloped delusions of grandeur.
(Check out one of the BASSA faithful's assertion, for example, that we FF premium customers are gagging to have his lot back on board to serve us. And you get the picture. Sad. Very sad.)
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baggersup:
I must agree that there is a TOTAL disassociation from reality by those striking crew members that think that BA's passengers (particularly those who avail themselves of their First and Business product) wish for their return.
Unfortunately the striking Cabin Crew have branded themselves by the images we have received over the course of this disagreement.
I could do without being served by someone who has participated or endorsed that sort of behavior.
I must agree that there is a TOTAL disassociation from reality by those striking crew members that think that BA's passengers (particularly those who avail themselves of their First and Business product) wish for their return.
Unfortunately the striking Cabin Crew have branded themselves by the images we have received over the course of this disagreement.
I could do without being served by someone who has participated or endorsed that sort of behavior.
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I just read an assertion that BA sent out an email on Wednesday offering £100.00 each way to individuals who flew during the next strike period.
Can any CC members verify the truth of this statement?
Can any CC members verify the truth of this statement?
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Thanks Diplome.
If you need proof of how powerful a hold the leaders have over the core group of the most loyal "cult" members, look no further than this strike.
The leaders managed to get them to drink this Koolaid with glee, in the dire face of every counter-indicator imagineable: Worldwide economic crisis, airline industry crisis and airlines going bankrupt, striking when already the best paid cc staff in the UK, friends, family, others in their circle already losing jobs, suffering salary reductions.
But the leaders were SO successful in their brainwashing that they managed to make their "cult" overlook all of these realities around them and drink the Koolaid anyway.
Every "cult" leader in the history of the world learned a long time ago the power you can wield if you can gather together the weakest in the group and consistently tell them how powerful and special and talented they are--and how everybody else is far less in value than they are. Sound familiar???
Works a charm. Always has. And once the weakest have enjoyed this level adoration by the "cult" leaders, how can they go back to the Real World where they are at the bottom of the heap in talent and performance and overlooked whilst others rise? Hm.
That's what you are dealing with here.
Reason is no longer possible. They lost their reason eons ago, as evidenced by the existence of this strike.
If you need proof of how powerful a hold the leaders have over the core group of the most loyal "cult" members, look no further than this strike.
The leaders managed to get them to drink this Koolaid with glee, in the dire face of every counter-indicator imagineable: Worldwide economic crisis, airline industry crisis and airlines going bankrupt, striking when already the best paid cc staff in the UK, friends, family, others in their circle already losing jobs, suffering salary reductions.
But the leaders were SO successful in their brainwashing that they managed to make their "cult" overlook all of these realities around them and drink the Koolaid anyway.
Every "cult" leader in the history of the world learned a long time ago the power you can wield if you can gather together the weakest in the group and consistently tell them how powerful and special and talented they are--and how everybody else is far less in value than they are. Sound familiar???
Works a charm. Always has. And once the weakest have enjoyed this level adoration by the "cult" leaders, how can they go back to the Real World where they are at the bottom of the heap in talent and performance and overlooked whilst others rise? Hm.
That's what you are dealing with here.
Reason is no longer possible. They lost their reason eons ago, as evidenced by the existence of this strike.
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Diplome
Quote:
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
Hi, sorry, it's part of a much longer series of observations in here over the years. I did not suggest that the strike will cause the downfall of BA.
I do suggest that BA is at the end of it's natural life (it's over 90 years old) and have predicted that it will not make it's centenary in it's current form. It will have been bought out or merged with another significant carrier by that time.
The current strike may hasten that to some degree, may give false hope to some but, my personal view is, that it will make no great difference to the outcome. The wheels have been turning for too long to be affected by this.
Diplome
Quote:
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
Hi, sorry, it's part of a much longer series of observations in here over the years. I did not suggest that the strike will cause the downfall of BA.
I do suggest that BA is at the end of it's natural life (it's over 90 years old) and have predicted that it will not make it's centenary in it's current form. It will have been bought out or merged with another significant carrier by that time.
The current strike may hasten that to some degree, may give false hope to some but, my personal view is, that it will make no great difference to the outcome. The wheels have been turning for too long to be affected by this.
Unless the IB merger falls through, BA certainly won't be around in its present form for much longer.
Of course it also has to be said that the present BA is the result of many amalgamations and takeovers. This is certainly not a business which has stood still for many decades, there have been a mixtures of forward and backward steps over the years.
Quote:
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
Hi, sorry, it's part of a much longer series of observations in here over the years. I did not suggest that the strike will cause the downfall of BA.
I do suggest that BA is at the end of it's natural life (it's over 90 years old) and have predicted that it will not make it's centenary in it's current form. It will have been bought out or merged with another significant carrier by that time.
The current strike may hasten that to some degree, may give false hope to some but, my personal view is, that it will make no great difference to the outcome. The wheels have been turning for too long to be affected by this.
DiplomeQuote:
I would agree with most of your post except that I don't believe this dispute will lead to the demise of BA., quite the opposite.
Hi, sorry, it's part of a much longer series of observations in here over the years. I did not suggest that the strike will cause the downfall of BA.
I do suggest that BA is at the end of it's natural life (it's over 90 years old) and have predicted that it will not make it's centenary in it's current form. It will have been bought out or merged with another significant carrier by that time.
The current strike may hasten that to some degree, may give false hope to some but, my personal view is, that it will make no great difference to the outcome. The wheels have been turning for too long to be affected by this.
Unless the IB merger falls through, BA certainly won't be around in its present form for much longer.
Of course it also has to be said that the present BA is the result of many amalgamations and takeovers. This is certainly not a business which has stood still for many decades, there have been a mixtures of forward and backward steps over the years.