Panorama BBC1 Monday 12th Oct - Why Hate Ryanair
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If an SLF may comment - watched the TV program, blah blah blah, and "so what ?" Is there something about the words "low cost airline" that passengers don't understand when they buy their tickets ?
We make 20 - 30 flights with FR a year (traveling to look after elderly relatives elsewhere). We have no complaints with the quality of service offered compared with the price we pay - in fact, being retired, we couldn't afford to offer the personal support to our elderly relatives if Ryanair didn't exist.
You get what you pay for when you buy a Ryanair ticket: cheap, efficient, punctual travel, which is all we want on a two-hour flight. And with extremely well-trained cockpit crew.
Thanks, MoL.
We make 20 - 30 flights with FR a year (traveling to look after elderly relatives elsewhere). We have no complaints with the quality of service offered compared with the price we pay - in fact, being retired, we couldn't afford to offer the personal support to our elderly relatives if Ryanair didn't exist.
You get what you pay for when you buy a Ryanair ticket: cheap, efficient, punctual travel, which is all we want on a two-hour flight. And with extremely well-trained cockpit crew.
Thanks, MoL.
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1) Like many others, I actually mean it. There are plenty of others like me. That's why you'd probably find plenty of guys out of a job at the moment who won't be even skimming over RYR.
2) Therefore, you mustn't be a Brookfields contractor? If you were, I assume that unless you have insurance, you won't be getting any money. This, then, if it's the case, would answer whether you were on a contract or not. I would be surprised to find if in the same circumstances most other companies didn't do the same - RYR wouldn't be doing anything out of the ordinary - but fair play to them for being so understanding.
3) I was told that there was a freeze on base recruitment by an RYR employee. Presumably you guys must have agendas as well. 'Michael' is the worst of all for having agendas. Like all other Chief Execs, he wants pilots, along with everyone else, working minimum wage on max hours, and I'm pretty sure he's trying his hardest with the laws he must work with to make it happen. Not everyone is happy with their T&C's - like with every company - and while you save on union fees the new RYR guys are probably on some of the worst T&Cs in the industry, in Europe at least.
4) Your company is cheaper than pretty much everyone else, that is true. But to say you do things 'better' than everyone else opens up a debate that we could all make last for a long, long time. Feel free to go on arguing but I'm done - I'm not going to start a yelling match.
2) Therefore, you mustn't be a Brookfields contractor? If you were, I assume that unless you have insurance, you won't be getting any money. This, then, if it's the case, would answer whether you were on a contract or not. I would be surprised to find if in the same circumstances most other companies didn't do the same - RYR wouldn't be doing anything out of the ordinary - but fair play to them for being so understanding.
3) I was told that there was a freeze on base recruitment by an RYR employee. Presumably you guys must have agendas as well. 'Michael' is the worst of all for having agendas. Like all other Chief Execs, he wants pilots, along with everyone else, working minimum wage on max hours, and I'm pretty sure he's trying his hardest with the laws he must work with to make it happen. Not everyone is happy with their T&C's - like with every company - and while you save on union fees the new RYR guys are probably on some of the worst T&Cs in the industry, in Europe at least.
4) Your company is cheaper than pretty much everyone else, that is true. But to say you do things 'better' than everyone else opens up a debate that we could all make last for a long, long time. Feel free to go on arguing but I'm done - I'm not going to start a yelling match.
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Ryanair 'exposé' backfires on Panorama -Times Online
A free 30 minute prime time commercial for Ryanair.
O'Leary 1 - BBC 0
Ryanair 'exposé' backfires on Panorama
The travelling public have come out overwhelming in Ryanair's favour after last night's BBC show
Ryanair’s pre-emptive attack on the BBC over its Why Hate Ryanair programme was futile. The broadcaster came out worst after last night's Panorama.
The travelling public have come out overwhelming in Ryanair's favour after last night's BBC show
Ryanair’s pre-emptive attack on the BBC over its Why Hate Ryanair programme was futile. The broadcaster came out worst after last night's Panorama.
O'Leary 1 - BBC 0
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Originally Posted by Capetonian
O'Leary 1 - BBC 0
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Barely a day goes by without them taking a swipe at the BBC for something.
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We are just watching it. Loved the part about the 16 year old who goes to Dublin for day trips, paying a max of 5 pounds and is at flight college now. Is he on here?
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why exactly do we pay the extortionate TV License fee to the BBC? Would someone care to enlighten me?
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Once an aircraft leaves the ground, it runs for 'free' through the air bearing only it's own costs - not that of the air around it that supports it's very flight. Naturally, there are overflying costs and ATC costs but these are in a different league to owning and paying for every cubic inch of the air!
I'm no fan of Ryanair - they are the Tesco of the airlines. Like Tesco, they have certain business practices that I do not like, so I prefer not to use them. In case of dire need I will - and know exactly what to expect. The consumer, these days, is mostly focussed on cost and MOL works this to perfection. You have to admire the man; he's a superb player.
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A couple of thoughts I had on the programme:
1) I felt quite sorry for the pilot who O'Leary put in front of the camera by the aircraft's front door (this was taken from an old programme). O'Leary was really quite patronising with his "I told them we don't pay our pilots!" speech. The pilot looked really embarrassed by the situation.
2) The reporting wasn't impartial. Vivian had clearly never stepped foot on a Ryanair flight (he must be used to travelling BA) and the way he 'analysed' the company (e.g. when we went to Stockholm) had a blatant anti-Ryanair bias. He then took the 'I fly six sectors a day' example from the captain he interviewed and ignored the fact that 4 or 2 sectors are equally possible! Poor journalism, BBC.
3) O'Leary comes across extremely well in the full interview on the BBC website. It's the journalist who doesn't appear to know what he's talking about.
1) I felt quite sorry for the pilot who O'Leary put in front of the camera by the aircraft's front door (this was taken from an old programme). O'Leary was really quite patronising with his "I told them we don't pay our pilots!" speech. The pilot looked really embarrassed by the situation.
2) The reporting wasn't impartial. Vivian had clearly never stepped foot on a Ryanair flight (he must be used to travelling BA) and the way he 'analysed' the company (e.g. when we went to Stockholm) had a blatant anti-Ryanair bias. He then took the 'I fly six sectors a day' example from the captain he interviewed and ignored the fact that 4 or 2 sectors are equally possible! Poor journalism, BBC.
3) O'Leary comes across extremely well in the full interview on the BBC website. It's the journalist who doesn't appear to know what he's talking about.
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In essence Ryanair said they wanted to control the agenda and that the BBC were only interested in doing a 'hatchet job'. Ryanair seem to have been afflicted with paranoia as I saw no evidence of a hatchet job in the broadcast. Indeed why would the BBC have put 'Uncut: Ryanair's Michael O'Leary' inline prior to the broadcast if their intentions were being mischievous. Pretty fair of them.
Paxing All Over The World
flyingfemme
Many thanks for that and the devil will be in the detail. One has read in this website, of alternative routes being used to lower such costs, even at the expense of more fuel.
I certainly agree with your view "You have to admire the man; he's a superb player." Yes, he has done to the whole of European aviation what Murdoch did to UK newspapers and TV. Incidentally, in another thread (the inevitable BA + BAA!) someone suggested that WW was grooming himself to take over from MoL. That is never going to happen because MoL will never step down. He will either be Chariman at the boardroom table until he dies of old age, or he will die in harness as CEO. His kind of driven man never step down and that is said with no anger or rancour. The man is brilliant at what he does and I try not to use his services.
Eurocontrol charges are pretty steep, especially in/from the UK. They are also calculated using the square root of the aircraft weight; so Ryanair, using smaller, short-haul aircraft pay more per tonne than BA using a jumbo for long haul (for example). Not too different to the current rail situation here in the UK, where the track is owned centrally and the operating companies pay to use it.
I certainly agree with your view "You have to admire the man; he's a superb player." Yes, he has done to the whole of European aviation what Murdoch did to UK newspapers and TV. Incidentally, in another thread (the inevitable BA + BAA!) someone suggested that WW was grooming himself to take over from MoL. That is never going to happen because MoL will never step down. He will either be Chariman at the boardroom table until he dies of old age, or he will die in harness as CEO. His kind of driven man never step down and that is said with no anger or rancour. The man is brilliant at what he does and I try not to use his services.
Blimey - it is all about Marmite isn't it? Would I choose to fly for FR? No - the best part of freight is no passengers! Do I use FR as pax? Absolutely. I use the amazing power of the internet to fully research the options - and indeed split infinitives - (inc all the LoCos and 'full fare' carriers) and choose the one which gives the best mix of:
Departure airfield - travel/parking/hassle
Dest - as above
Cost - final total everything paid for cost
Timings
Baggage allowance - sometimes need, sometimes don't
eg. for skiing, much prefer FR's Lyon (Grenoble) - closer to the resorts, much quicker to/from car park, luggage delivery quicker
ATS - like yr posts. Often take my own (well, probably pret) sandwich on. Quite capable of deciding whether to spend my money on board.
Pilot perspective - 45 mins not unusual report time. Personally tend to arrive a bit early - coffee/natter with ops n crewing etc. My choice.
Bottom line - bet M O'L loved the prog!!
DH
Departure airfield - travel/parking/hassle
Dest - as above
Cost - final total everything paid for cost
Timings
Baggage allowance - sometimes need, sometimes don't
eg. for skiing, much prefer FR's Lyon (Grenoble) - closer to the resorts, much quicker to/from car park, luggage delivery quicker
ATS - like yr posts. Often take my own (well, probably pret) sandwich on. Quite capable of deciding whether to spend my money on board.
Pilot perspective - 45 mins not unusual report time. Personally tend to arrive a bit early - coffee/natter with ops n crewing etc. My choice.
Bottom line - bet M O'L loved the prog!!
DH
Simple question.
Anyone can appreciate why people will take advantage of very cheap tickets of FR but can someone explain why, when the company publishes its average fare taken per passenger, it is obvious that one h*ll of a lot of passengers must be paying much higher fares to fly with FR? This is the true mystery to me which was never addressed.
Why would anyone pay large sums of money to fly on FR when equivalent fares are available from most airlines now? Is the public that gullible to be snared in by the headline `fare` versus the total paid after charges?
Anyone can appreciate why people will take advantage of very cheap tickets of FR but can someone explain why, when the company publishes its average fare taken per passenger, it is obvious that one h*ll of a lot of passengers must be paying much higher fares to fly with FR? This is the true mystery to me which was never addressed.
Why would anyone pay large sums of money to fly on FR when equivalent fares are available from most airlines now? Is the public that gullible to be snared in by the headline `fare` versus the total paid after charges?
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I've only flown with FR twice. Once I paid €100 (including everything)return for a family of 5 (five) DUB - LGW. The chap next to me paid €450 for his ticket (for one person). I thanked him for subsidising my trip.
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The one thing I think FR excel at is publicity.
The majority of the British public probably check out their site first as it's name sticks, closely followed by Easy (because of the TV programme 'Airline'). I can't remember the last time I saw anything that sticks from the likes of FlyBe or anyone else.
As for the documentary...I suspect only people on here were thinking it would be totally anti FR. Now some are disappointed it was just presenting a documentary which left the viewer to make up their own mind. Even publicising the fact that they had put the unedited interview with O'Leary.
Good luck to the FR fans and those who enjoy working for them........At the end of the day it's a personal choice..(Maybe?)
The majority of the British public probably check out their site first as it's name sticks, closely followed by Easy (because of the TV programme 'Airline'). I can't remember the last time I saw anything that sticks from the likes of FlyBe or anyone else.
As for the documentary...I suspect only people on here were thinking it would be totally anti FR. Now some are disappointed it was just presenting a documentary which left the viewer to make up their own mind. Even publicising the fact that they had put the unedited interview with O'Leary.
Good luck to the FR fans and those who enjoy working for them........At the end of the day it's a personal choice..(Maybe?)
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Abusing the sky ..... Thank you so much for the very constructive reply that you didn't have time for apparently 
Of course you are entitled to your condescending personal opinion of me clearly demonstrated by the wording of your post but you have asked me to clarify some safety info. If you truly are interested in the answers then I suggest you PM me. I think you will find I am just as clued up on aviation safety/safety reporting procedures as you and yes I do know what all your abbreviations stand for....funny that but as CC and "a PU at that" I would be. I too have been round for a long time as well hence....
I'm not interested in a slanging match on a public forum just because you might not like/agree with me or it appears do you like being questioned in any way. I didn't intend to start one but I will finish it. If you wish to continue our discussion then please do PM me.
Meanwhile back to the thread......Why hate ryanair? It appears lots of people do a million free seats or not. I wonder if MOL will be waiving the taxes, booking fees, potential hold fees, the wheelchair fees,euro control fees etc to go with the "free" seats?
mm.
Of course you are entitled to your condescending personal opinion of me clearly demonstrated by the wording of your post but you have asked me to clarify some safety info. If you truly are interested in the answers then I suggest you PM me. I think you will find I am just as clued up on aviation safety/safety reporting procedures as you and yes I do know what all your abbreviations stand for....funny that but as CC and "a PU at that" I would be. I too have been round for a long time as well hence....
I'm not interested in a slanging match on a public forum just because you might not like/agree with me or it appears do you like being questioned in any way. I didn't intend to start one but I will finish it. If you wish to continue our discussion then please do PM me.
Meanwhile back to the thread......Why hate ryanair? It appears lots of people do a million free seats or not. I wonder if MOL will be waiving the taxes, booking fees, potential hold fees, the wheelchair fees,euro control fees etc to go with the "free" seats?
mm.
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I wonder if MOL will be waiving the taxes, booking fees, potential hold fees, the wheelchair fees,euro control fees etc to go with the "free" seats?
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Eurocontrol charges are pretty steep, especially in/from the UK. They are also calculated using the square root of the aircraft weight; so Ryanair, using smaller, short-haul aircraft pay more per tonne than BA using a jumbo for long haul (for example).
This would give a weight factor of 1.18 for a 737-800 and a factor of 2.81 for a 747-400.
The full charging formula can be found here:
Eurocontrol Charge calculation
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A spin off from the documentary and relevant to costs, MO'L mentioned a figure of 67 million passengers and another source says that he has 6500 staff. This works out to 1 employee for every 10307 passengers flown; does any other airline get close to this emloyee/passenger ratio and if so which one?