Rules For Self Loading Freight
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Bondim,
It's one of those "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situations. If I don't check that the passenger is ok, I'm classified as rude, but when asking if they're ok, I'm encouraging them to want more...
Waco,
You must really love cabin crew...
Gg
It's one of those "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situations. If I don't check that the passenger is ok, I'm classified as rude, but when asking if they're ok, I'm encouraging them to want more...
Waco,
You must really love cabin crew...
Gg
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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I suspect the "we pay your wages brigade" would go down the lines of something like: -
You are our servents so we can do whatever we like with no hindrence or critisism
You are our servents so we can do whatever we like with no hindrence or critisism
Paxing All Over The World
An interesting point about the call bell, I used it last Tuesday night for the first time in - I cannot remember how long - certainly more than five years. Normally, I would catch CC attention as they are passing.
As it happens, I was on my frequent route of JNB~LHR (BA WT+ this time) and the dinner choice was the classic beef/chicken. I asked if the beef had any spices in it and was told that it did not. My neighbour opened his beef and it certainly smelt fine. I took the beef. It turned out to be liberally covered with black pepper and so I used the call bell to ask for the chicken!
As it happens, I was on my frequent route of JNB~LHR (BA WT+ this time) and the dinner choice was the classic beef/chicken. I asked if the beef had any spices in it and was told that it did not. My neighbour opened his beef and it certainly smelt fine. I took the beef. It turned out to be liberally covered with black pepper and so I used the call bell to ask for the chicken!
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But seriously:
Much as it is difficult for CC from a SLF point of view : By the time I have got through customs (or Immigration I am never sure which one it is) then waited while the person in front of me argues with Security about why I have to take my belt / shoes off and another who insists that its only a small amount of fluid why cant I take it with me. A smile as I hand over my boarding card to the CC and then I wait while some idiot blocks the aisle while trying to jam clearly oversized baggage in to the overhead locker and wondering how the heck he got it past Check In . Seated another person tries the same and keeps dropping it on me . Then sits down only to be told he is in the wrong seat and then repeating the process all over again.
It can be trying for CC and SLF but I love flying and will continue to do so.
- There is no excuse for being anything but police to cabin Crew.
- I occasionally like to know what piece of land we just flew over and found that recording the name of a town from the moving Flight Information map and then later working back on the Internet does help.
- The Nursery : Happened once lesson learnt will never happen again.
- The toilets : This is a bit of a dilemma and may open up a can of worms . To avoid DVT we are told to take plenty of fluids. How much is plenty ? Do Airlines have guidelines (I could not find any) and is so is the onus on the Airline to provide the water / fluid? I imagine that logistically and financially it would create problems but where do we as SLF stand ? I for one do not want to continually have to bother the CC by continually asking for some water. Bottom line is that trips to the toilet are inevitable.
- Website Sometimes I honestly think the sites are designed in such a way that the User will give up trying and move on . Similarly the remotes for the In Flight entertainment can be confusing. The slot that they are stored in is positioned in such a way that anything but slight movement activates one or another button and causing the image to change or , even worse activate the call bell.
- Going to the toilet without shoes on: In some cases gum boots would be more appropriate.
Much as it is difficult for CC from a SLF point of view : By the time I have got through customs (or Immigration I am never sure which one it is) then waited while the person in front of me argues with Security about why I have to take my belt / shoes off and another who insists that its only a small amount of fluid why cant I take it with me. A smile as I hand over my boarding card to the CC and then I wait while some idiot blocks the aisle while trying to jam clearly oversized baggage in to the overhead locker and wondering how the heck he got it past Check In . Seated another person tries the same and keeps dropping it on me . Then sits down only to be told he is in the wrong seat and then repeating the process all over again.
It can be trying for CC and SLF but I love flying and will continue to do so.
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Re the call bell.
If travelling economy, I would very rarely use it, in fact I cannot remember the last time I did. It was probably in the days when I used to travel long haul in Y and wanted a drink of water in the middle of the night, but did not wish to disturb the sleeping pax in the aisle seat, by going to the galley.
In business or first, I'd be more likely to use it to ask for my tray to be cleared so that I could get my laptop out or get a top up of my drink. As far as I am concerned, I've paid a premium for the service and my expectations are higher.
Of course, I wouldn't call for the crew member as soon as I finished dinner, but after 5 minutes I'd be thinking about it. I'll also let the CC member know beforehand (e.g. when they serve an aperitif) that I'd like the tray clearing quickly so I can work and not to worry that I'll be offended by thinking that they are rushing me.
But having said that, it is probably a symptom of poor premium service delivery if I'm having to use it, most flights I don't touch it, because the responsible CC member is on top of the pax management and anticipating what the pax need, so when you look up to see if there is someone to clear the tray, they are there in a flash.
The best service is so smooth, it is hardly noticeable, takes a very good CC member to make it so.
The call bell certainly isn't a kids toy and it is not there to stress the crew by 'aggressive' use.
If travelling economy, I would very rarely use it, in fact I cannot remember the last time I did. It was probably in the days when I used to travel long haul in Y and wanted a drink of water in the middle of the night, but did not wish to disturb the sleeping pax in the aisle seat, by going to the galley.
In business or first, I'd be more likely to use it to ask for my tray to be cleared so that I could get my laptop out or get a top up of my drink. As far as I am concerned, I've paid a premium for the service and my expectations are higher.
Of course, I wouldn't call for the crew member as soon as I finished dinner, but after 5 minutes I'd be thinking about it. I'll also let the CC member know beforehand (e.g. when they serve an aperitif) that I'd like the tray clearing quickly so I can work and not to worry that I'll be offended by thinking that they are rushing me.
But having said that, it is probably a symptom of poor premium service delivery if I'm having to use it, most flights I don't touch it, because the responsible CC member is on top of the pax management and anticipating what the pax need, so when you look up to see if there is someone to clear the tray, they are there in a flash.
The best service is so smooth, it is hardly noticeable, takes a very good CC member to make it so.
The call bell certainly isn't a kids toy and it is not there to stress the crew by 'aggressive' use.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 6th Sep 2009 at 06:10.
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You're Funny
ObGraham: Here all this time I thought it was to provide them with a job. Proof of this: when we stop flying, CC get laid off!
It came right after "Why aren't you out catching real criminals?" or "If I request a cavity search, are you required to give me one?" and "Think of how many doughnuts you can buy with the $20 in my pocket!"
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Apologies?
Apologies to those who took offense to my posting about the call bells.
There's a Vietnamese folk saying that goes "When the cat steals a piece of meat, we chase it; when the tiger steals a pig, we all stare and do nothing."
Some folks can't tell the difference between the two felines and get mauled.
You merely keyboarded out in plain English the respective CC/SLF responsibilities with one firm yet gentle claw.
Good for you.
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1. Do not try to stuff your 95 lb "carry on" bag into an overhead bin.
Then after 'dismounting' the aforementioned item of luggage from his/her back, the same person will create absolute chaos by assuming the overhead bins are some kind of miniature tardis and will push, shove, throw other items in the bin around with no consideration of their contents while at the same time, creating gridlock on the boarding aircraft.
Maybe safety helmets should be issued!
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A few more, if I may be so bold.
Going on from the backpack issue, please do not wheel your out of control wheelie bag over my feet. It hurts!
The person next to you presses the call bell and when the crew member arrives, requests a coffee. You decide you actually quite fancy a coffee too. Please speak up now! Do not wait until the crew member returns with the cup of coffee for your travelling companion!
An odd one, this, but if you do insist on unfastening your seatbelt the minute the signs go off and staying that way for the duration of the flight, would you mind please tucking the seatbelt into the seat rather than leaving it hanging in the aisle. Depending on how they are adjusted, the seatbelt buckle is often at the exact height to crack us across the ankles as we walk past. Again, this hurts. This really hurts!
And finally, it's the end of the flight. The doors are open and disembarking has started. The cleaners/caterers/passengers, or at the end of a long day, the crew are chomping at the bit to get on/off the aircraft. But your adorable toddler has just learnt to walk. And you're very proud! Who wouldn't be? However, do NOT let them toddle down the aisle, holding everyone up and causing the crew to start chewing on nails!
Jsl
P.S. Before I go, a quick question. Time and time again, I see people pushing their wheelie bag down the aisle, usually with the associated steering problems, rather than pulling it as per the norm. Is there any reason for this? I even tried it myself, in case everyone knew something that I didn't, but wasn't overwhelmed with the result....
Going on from the backpack issue, please do not wheel your out of control wheelie bag over my feet. It hurts!
The person next to you presses the call bell and when the crew member arrives, requests a coffee. You decide you actually quite fancy a coffee too. Please speak up now! Do not wait until the crew member returns with the cup of coffee for your travelling companion!
An odd one, this, but if you do insist on unfastening your seatbelt the minute the signs go off and staying that way for the duration of the flight, would you mind please tucking the seatbelt into the seat rather than leaving it hanging in the aisle. Depending on how they are adjusted, the seatbelt buckle is often at the exact height to crack us across the ankles as we walk past. Again, this hurts. This really hurts!
And finally, it's the end of the flight. The doors are open and disembarking has started. The cleaners/caterers/passengers, or at the end of a long day, the crew are chomping at the bit to get on/off the aircraft. But your adorable toddler has just learnt to walk. And you're very proud! Who wouldn't be? However, do NOT let them toddle down the aisle, holding everyone up and causing the crew to start chewing on nails!
Jsl
P.S. Before I go, a quick question. Time and time again, I see people pushing their wheelie bag down the aisle, usually with the associated steering problems, rather than pulling it as per the norm. Is there any reason for this? I even tried it myself, in case everyone knew something that I didn't, but wasn't overwhelmed with the result....
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Continuing on with my efforts to hold up the SLF side of this discussion:
Why is it that all the carts needed at the rear are stored at the front, and all the carts needed at the front are stored at the rear? We seem to have a parade of carts up and down the aisles as CC get ready for cabin service. Then there is always the situation where one "lead" has three serfs running to fetch trays, cups, ice to hand over to him/her (almost always "her"), requiring numerous traipses up and down the aisle. A certain flag carrier from Canada seems to be the worst offender here.
Some of us barely can jam our legs into the space alloted behind Joe The Immediately Reclined One in front of us. I know, that's a different argument: I'd gladly pay a little more for 2 inches more pitch, but evidently the rest of us will not. Nevertheless, we do at times intrude into the aisle space and expect to have to move.
Considerate CC slide their cart at a modest speed, announcing "mind your elbow" or some such. Too many heft that baby from rear to front like they're practicing the evacuation, oblivious to the trail of dislocated elbows and cracked metatarsals left behind.
Why is it that all the carts needed at the rear are stored at the front, and all the carts needed at the front are stored at the rear? We seem to have a parade of carts up and down the aisles as CC get ready for cabin service. Then there is always the situation where one "lead" has three serfs running to fetch trays, cups, ice to hand over to him/her (almost always "her"), requiring numerous traipses up and down the aisle. A certain flag carrier from Canada seems to be the worst offender here.
Some of us barely can jam our legs into the space alloted behind Joe The Immediately Reclined One in front of us. I know, that's a different argument: I'd gladly pay a little more for 2 inches more pitch, but evidently the rest of us will not. Nevertheless, we do at times intrude into the aisle space and expect to have to move.
Considerate CC slide their cart at a modest speed, announcing "mind your elbow" or some such. Too many heft that baby from rear to front like they're practicing the evacuation, oblivious to the trail of dislocated elbows and cracked metatarsals left behind.
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With the call bell, I think your definitely overstating that its an emergency button. I rarely fly commercially except for international flights, I prefer to do the flying myself even if it takes twice as long, but if I want a drink or similar I will use the call button. I don't expect you to come running, but next time your coming down the isle and notice it I can ask you nicely for what I want.
In my experience in aviation anything that is truly an emergency button is typically red and placarded as emergency use only, I see neither on the call buttons.
In my experience in aviation anything that is truly an emergency button is typically red and placarded as emergency use only, I see neither on the call buttons.
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Call buttons and other annoying things!
I never use the call buttons as I feel it harkens back to the days when people used to "click" their fingers in the direction of waiters in restaurants, (do they still do that?). Instead I prefer to go to the galley and ask for what I want, it also serves as an excuse to stretch my legs. However I can see that the call button can be a god send for those less able to move freely ie. Families with young children, pax seated in the middle of sleeping fellow pax, older less mobile pax etc. I do like to have an aisle seat as I'm prepared to take the odd trolley buffeting whilst having the option to get up when I want without having to clamber over my fellow travellers, especially in the unlikely event of an emergency evacuation!! My pet hate whilst flying on long sectors are pax in the seat behind mine who can't get out of their own seat without pulling themselves up on the back of mine, I do enjoy a glass of red wine inflight but I prefer to drink it not wear it!!
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never use the call buttons as I feel it harkens back to the days when people used to "click" their fingers in the direction of waiters in restaurants, (do they still do that?).
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"There is no excuse for being anything but police to cabin Crew."
An unfortunate typo with all sorts of implications - and I was particularly careful to read and edit before submitting.
Should have read .... "but polite to cabin crew".
No doubt one or two more comments will follow - Hard hat now firmly placed on head
An unfortunate typo with all sorts of implications - and I was particularly careful to read and edit before submitting.
Should have read .... "but polite to cabin crew".
No doubt one or two more comments will follow - Hard hat now firmly placed on head
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obgraham
I can only speak for BA on your question regarding trollies in different galleys. There may be limited space say in a J class galley and sometimes trollies for the second service are kept in another galley where there may be an abundance of space. What usually happens is, after the first service is completed, you would take down the used trollies and bring up the new ones ready for the second service. More often than not, this is done after lights out, which can be tricky, especially if the trolley has been in the chiller for a hours and you are trying not to wake people.
Dot Product
Some airlines do indeed use the call bell for emergencies as a subtle way to attract attention from your colleagues. From a passenger point of view, they may use it to attract attention because of a serious issue, eg: chest pains, while some may use it because they don't wish to leave their seat to have an ad-hoc drink. As a crew member, you're on your own down the back and two call bells go off, you have no way of knowing who needs your help most until you get to the passenger. Personally, I believe they should be placarded for emergency use only.
As F3G says, in a good premium cabin, you should never need use it because crew will always maintain a subtle presence in the cabin (I know this doesn't always happen). In an economy cabin, wherever possible, passengers should be encouraged to visit the galley for their needs outside of service times. This will enable to crew to better serve the cabin as a whole instead of the vocal one or two who take up disproportionate amount of the cabin crew's time, which is not fair to the rest of the cabin.
I can only speak for BA on your question regarding trollies in different galleys. There may be limited space say in a J class galley and sometimes trollies for the second service are kept in another galley where there may be an abundance of space. What usually happens is, after the first service is completed, you would take down the used trollies and bring up the new ones ready for the second service. More often than not, this is done after lights out, which can be tricky, especially if the trolley has been in the chiller for a hours and you are trying not to wake people.
Dot Product
Some airlines do indeed use the call bell for emergencies as a subtle way to attract attention from your colleagues. From a passenger point of view, they may use it to attract attention because of a serious issue, eg: chest pains, while some may use it because they don't wish to leave their seat to have an ad-hoc drink. As a crew member, you're on your own down the back and two call bells go off, you have no way of knowing who needs your help most until you get to the passenger. Personally, I believe they should be placarded for emergency use only.
As F3G says, in a good premium cabin, you should never need use it because crew will always maintain a subtle presence in the cabin (I know this doesn't always happen). In an economy cabin, wherever possible, passengers should be encouraged to visit the galley for their needs outside of service times. This will enable to crew to better serve the cabin as a whole instead of the vocal one or two who take up disproportionate amount of the cabin crew's time, which is not fair to the rest of the cabin.
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In an economy cabin, wherever possible, passengers should be encouraged to visit the galley for their needs outside of service times. This will enable to crew to better serve the cabin as a whole instead of the vocal one or two who take up disproportionate amount of the cabin crew's time, which is not fair to the rest of the cabin.
As a quiet non-call-bell pressing pax, I would suggest that if CC wish pax to behave in this manner with the call-bell, then inform them, otherwise, it will forever be known as a "call-bell" where you can receive additional service from your seat; and so the 5% of pax that are abusers of that priviledge will continue.
Matt
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And here's another one that must annoy the hell out of CC.
Why do some pax decide to use the toilet during meal times when the aisle will invariably be blocked by the food/drink cart?
A single aisle cabin compounds this problem.
I feel sorry for the poor CC who halfway through the meal service and located mid aisle has to lug the cart to an area that will allow the pax to get past - then have to repeat the procedure when the pax has completed their ablutions.
OK, I appreciate that all of us can get 'caught short' at times, but I am sure that many of us can retain the contents of our bladders until the aisle is clear.
Why do some pax decide to use the toilet during meal times when the aisle will invariably be blocked by the food/drink cart?
A single aisle cabin compounds this problem.
I feel sorry for the poor CC who halfway through the meal service and located mid aisle has to lug the cart to an area that will allow the pax to get past - then have to repeat the procedure when the pax has completed their ablutions.
OK, I appreciate that all of us can get 'caught short' at times, but I am sure that many of us can retain the contents of our bladders until the aisle is clear.