Con fused - BA LCY - EDI
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In response to BA I said - OK, I don't like your rules which I will now avoid. I can accept that and I'm sure they can too. Fact is I'm not the only premium passenger that is a bit fed up with BA.
WTF does that mean?
Is a "Premium Passenger" special?
More money than brains?
Read the papers, pal.
Aristocracy has had its day.
The peasants are revolting.
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ILoadMyself
Do I detect a touch of the green eyed monster in your posts?
Let's face it, people who pay the airlines lots of money get better treatment and if they do not, they vote with their feet.
I don't use British Airways very often (still enough to have a silver card) and I will not do until the airline gets its act together and delivers more consistent service, in line with the competition.
Munnyspinner is probably more militant in view than me, but the reality is that many passengers who used to fly British Airways now do not, because we get better treatment elsewhere.
From personal experience, I have received far superior treatment from easyJet on a wx cancelation than from BA when travelling on a business class ticket - that is insane. Insane because both airlines followed their policies, not because I got special treatment.
The conformance that Munnyspinner describes is an example of how to irritate your better contributing customers, frankly who cares if the majority of the economy pax are pissed off because a high paying regular customer arrives a few minutes late?
Most of those passengers will buy on price and change airlines at the drop of a hat, whereas the regular premium client will keep coming back due to tie in on FQTV schemes.
So Mr I,<whatever>myself, why don't you just move on down to row #31 like a good little person and let the high rollers get on the front in peace and quiet without your Wolfie Smith impersonation
Do I detect a touch of the green eyed monster in your posts?
Let's face it, people who pay the airlines lots of money get better treatment and if they do not, they vote with their feet.
I don't use British Airways very often (still enough to have a silver card) and I will not do until the airline gets its act together and delivers more consistent service, in line with the competition.
Munnyspinner is probably more militant in view than me, but the reality is that many passengers who used to fly British Airways now do not, because we get better treatment elsewhere.
From personal experience, I have received far superior treatment from easyJet on a wx cancelation than from BA when travelling on a business class ticket - that is insane. Insane because both airlines followed their policies, not because I got special treatment.
The conformance that Munnyspinner describes is an example of how to irritate your better contributing customers, frankly who cares if the majority of the economy pax are pissed off because a high paying regular customer arrives a few minutes late?
Most of those passengers will buy on price and change airlines at the drop of a hat, whereas the regular premium client will keep coming back due to tie in on FQTV schemes.
So Mr I,<whatever>myself, why don't you just move on down to row #31 like a good little person and let the high rollers get on the front in peace and quiet without your Wolfie Smith impersonation
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F3G - Aside from the totally selfish attitude in your remark about "who cares if economy pax are pis*ed off if one high payer arrives a few minutes late", those few minutes may well lead to the flight picking up a delay, which may lead to huge inconvieniance and cost for the airline (especially at a busy airport like LHR) - it could push the crew over hours, mean a delay for the next sector - anything really.
I am not a huge fan of BA per se, but I do see that they are trying to turn around their performance.
I just cant see the problem - if you arrive late you dont board, solution? Dont arrive late.
I am not a huge fan of BA per se, but I do see that they are trying to turn around their performance.
I just cant see the problem - if you arrive late you dont board, solution? Dont arrive late.
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GroundedSLF
My remark about 'who cares' was somewhat tongue in cheek and not meant from the perspective of a premium customer, but from the perspective of the airline.
The reality is that most airlines don't really care about their Y pax, although they do care about the costs incurred by missing slots and the knock on effects of delays, so my point is that the airline is doing this for its own reason and the line about doing it for the benefit of ther pax is not the main dirver, IMHO.
However, seriously, my other point is that conformance is not an intelligent way to behave, especially in a downturm.
Now, I wouldn't cut things as fine as Munnyspinner, but a sensible airline would try to proactively get someone with a long premium history onto a flight, not just to chop them. This latter action rings true, because it aligns with my treatement when BA canx my flight 4 hours in advance and told me I was on my own (club ticket, silver card holder.)
BA is losing customers at the moment.
I'm in Paris today and happy to take BA to T5 (for a short hop, BA was cheaper than AF and I want to stay near LHR, otherwise I would have choses U2), but tomorrow I fly to the middle east on a J class ticket, with * Alliance, to a destination served by BA.
I don't need to do business with an airline who cannot persuade its service provider to run a fast track system properly, in a terminal where it is the only airline.
A small thing, but there is a lot of competition out there.
My remark about 'who cares' was somewhat tongue in cheek and not meant from the perspective of a premium customer, but from the perspective of the airline.
The reality is that most airlines don't really care about their Y pax, although they do care about the costs incurred by missing slots and the knock on effects of delays, so my point is that the airline is doing this for its own reason and the line about doing it for the benefit of ther pax is not the main dirver, IMHO.
However, seriously, my other point is that conformance is not an intelligent way to behave, especially in a downturm.
Now, I wouldn't cut things as fine as Munnyspinner, but a sensible airline would try to proactively get someone with a long premium history onto a flight, not just to chop them. This latter action rings true, because it aligns with my treatement when BA canx my flight 4 hours in advance and told me I was on my own (club ticket, silver card holder.)
BA is losing customers at the moment.
I'm in Paris today and happy to take BA to T5 (for a short hop, BA was cheaper than AF and I want to stay near LHR, otherwise I would have choses U2), but tomorrow I fly to the middle east on a J class ticket, with * Alliance, to a destination served by BA.
I don't need to do business with an airline who cannot persuade its service provider to run a fast track system properly, in a terminal where it is the only airline.
A small thing, but there is a lot of competition out there.
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BA canx my flight 4 hours in advance and told me I was on my own
I assume they offered to rebook at the very least and did not literally say "You're on your own". Just curious.
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Time of day 3pm.
My comment about 'on my own'really refered to their refusal to provide hotac or even assist in getting hotac.
Just a point blank 'we are not providing accomodation assistance for London joiners', even though the airline are aware I live abroad.
'Go away and come back back tomorrow morning.'
My comment about 'on my own'really refered to their refusal to provide hotac or even assist in getting hotac.
Just a point blank 'we are not providing accomodation assistance for London joiners', even though the airline are aware I live abroad.
'Go away and come back back tomorrow morning.'
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While the leaders of airline businesses and airport authorities will swear on their lives that "the customer comes first" and they will be supported in this assertation by various PR and marketing types, the reality is that the majority of the airline/airport employees have you well down on their personal priority list.
They don't care where you live, who you are (unless you're their boss of course), how much you spend or how long you've been flying with them. They don't care if you foam at the mouth and tell them that never again will you fly with their cursed airline! Further, you have absolutely no chance of winning an argument at an airport, indeed, you could end up being nicked for just raising your voice in a way that .."upset my colleague..". The only outlet for your frustration is a letter to the chief executive or venting your spleen here on Pprune.
However, neither of those will change anything either.
My advice? Either rise above it all or take every opportunity to stick-it to the guy next down in line from you in the pecking order....
They don't care where you live, who you are (unless you're their boss of course), how much you spend or how long you've been flying with them. They don't care if you foam at the mouth and tell them that never again will you fly with their cursed airline! Further, you have absolutely no chance of winning an argument at an airport, indeed, you could end up being nicked for just raising your voice in a way that .."upset my colleague..". The only outlet for your frustration is a letter to the chief executive or venting your spleen here on Pprune.
However, neither of those will change anything either.
My advice? Either rise above it all or take every opportunity to stick-it to the guy next down in line from you in the pecking order....
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Premium is the term used by BA and other airlines. They mean, Commercially ( (more) Important Passengers (CIP) /Frequent flyers and those who require a higher quality of service for which the airline can charge a permium over an above cattle class - which presumably, is where the revolting peasants sit next to those with more brains than money.
As regards the old conformance rant - Will this ever go away?
I flew to EDI this morning very reluctantly via LHR courtesy of BA ( its OK I'm back on BMI next week). As I was staying at the Sofitel last night I was not dogged by a late arrival. However, I did have to wait 20 minutes at the gate before anyone form BA showed even the remotest interest in boarding the flight. We departed on time but then taxied for 20minutes before take off. Arrival was punctual but, of course it would be because the scheduled flight time is now 1hr 20 whereas it used to be a block to block time of 55 minutes ( in the old days!).
In comparison with BMI last week, from Hex to gate took less than 10 minutes and the flight was just boarding when I arrived. No late arrivals, no delays 10 minutes max from pushback to take off 3 minutes early on arrival. LHR to EDI. To do the same with BA would take me at least 25 - 30minutes longer ( allowing for 10 minutes through security - although block to block times would be more or less equal. If you start adding this all together, Journey to paddington, Hex (15 +14 minutes worst case)+ 35 + 1.20 - I'm almost better taking atrain.
I have never delayed a flight once but have caught flights that have been delayed where airline staff have been awake to the possibility of filling an empty seat at the last minute to open a seat on a later ( busier) service. That behaviuor will increase load factors, improve yield and increase profit. Unfortunately, conformance either inhibits or restrict such opportunism.
The stats will show that T5 departures operate consistently on time but I don't think this is actually down to conformance. Pre T5 there was a shortage of stands at LHR which often meant inbound A/C were delayed by late departure of the preceeding flight. Now this situation has been alleviated by T5 and the knowck on effect removed.
The delays I have experienced have often been caused by transfer pax whose luggage has overtaken them or they get lost. How does conformance deal with BA pax making a flight connection where pax are delayed at immigration but their bags get onloaded onto a connecting internal flight?
As regards the old conformance rant - Will this ever go away?
I flew to EDI this morning very reluctantly via LHR courtesy of BA ( its OK I'm back on BMI next week). As I was staying at the Sofitel last night I was not dogged by a late arrival. However, I did have to wait 20 minutes at the gate before anyone form BA showed even the remotest interest in boarding the flight. We departed on time but then taxied for 20minutes before take off. Arrival was punctual but, of course it would be because the scheduled flight time is now 1hr 20 whereas it used to be a block to block time of 55 minutes ( in the old days!).
In comparison with BMI last week, from Hex to gate took less than 10 minutes and the flight was just boarding when I arrived. No late arrivals, no delays 10 minutes max from pushback to take off 3 minutes early on arrival. LHR to EDI. To do the same with BA would take me at least 25 - 30minutes longer ( allowing for 10 minutes through security - although block to block times would be more or less equal. If you start adding this all together, Journey to paddington, Hex (15 +14 minutes worst case)+ 35 + 1.20 - I'm almost better taking atrain.
I have never delayed a flight once but have caught flights that have been delayed where airline staff have been awake to the possibility of filling an empty seat at the last minute to open a seat on a later ( busier) service. That behaviuor will increase load factors, improve yield and increase profit. Unfortunately, conformance either inhibits or restrict such opportunism.
The stats will show that T5 departures operate consistently on time but I don't think this is actually down to conformance. Pre T5 there was a shortage of stands at LHR which often meant inbound A/C were delayed by late departure of the preceeding flight. Now this situation has been alleviated by T5 and the knowck on effect removed.
The delays I have experienced have often been caused by transfer pax whose luggage has overtaken them or they get lost. How does conformance deal with BA pax making a flight connection where pax are delayed at immigration but their bags get onloaded onto a connecting internal flight?
Last edited by Munnyspinner; 28th May 2009 at 18:30.
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GSLF,
Your remarks about BA remind me of a bus company whose revenues on a particular route started to falter. The FD asked the Ops director to look into things. He came back and sid he couldn't understand why there was problem. The buses were new, clean and operated toa very strict schedule.
Not satisfied, the FD decided to do a bit of his own reseach and joined a bus queue on that route. After two buses sailed past form his own company he ened up taking a rival service. The ops director was questioned and the drivers brought in to answer for themselves. The answer they gave solved the mystery - "If we stopped at every stop we wouldn't be able to keep to the timetable!"
BA may become the world's most punctual airline yet - if only they could unburden themselves of the self loading freight! I may have militant views but, the more I read on these pages and hear from others I am not alone in my belief that BA have lost the plot and that T5 conformanace is only the tip of a customer unfriendly iceberg ( ironic as I was once told the project name to move BA into T5 was - Snowball!)
Your remarks about BA remind me of a bus company whose revenues on a particular route started to falter. The FD asked the Ops director to look into things. He came back and sid he couldn't understand why there was problem. The buses were new, clean and operated toa very strict schedule.
Not satisfied, the FD decided to do a bit of his own reseach and joined a bus queue on that route. After two buses sailed past form his own company he ened up taking a rival service. The ops director was questioned and the drivers brought in to answer for themselves. The answer they gave solved the mystery - "If we stopped at every stop we wouldn't be able to keep to the timetable!"
BA may become the world's most punctual airline yet - if only they could unburden themselves of the self loading freight! I may have militant views but, the more I read on these pages and hear from others I am not alone in my belief that BA have lost the plot and that T5 conformanace is only the tip of a customer unfriendly iceberg ( ironic as I was once told the project name to move BA into T5 was - Snowball!)
Last edited by Munnyspinner; 28th May 2009 at 15:19.
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F3G - Your point regarding being "left on your own" by BA, which you later clarified to mean they did not offer you hotel accom in London when they canx the flight, can I ask if you were on a "through ticket" via LHR, or were you just a LHR departure on your return to Paris (I think you said you live in Paris, so were presumably here in the UK on some kind of visit).
If they did - then you have a very strong case against BA providing costs for your enforced overnight stay. The fact that BA cancelled the flight (presumably for reason within their control as it was 4 hours in advance) and could/did not put you onto an alternative flight, either with themselves or others the same day makes them liable.
BA contracted to get you from point A to point B on a set date - they have to do this via whatever reasonable means, or provide you with accomodation and or meal vouchers depending on the length of the delay.
If they did - then you have a very strong case against BA providing costs for your enforced overnight stay. The fact that BA cancelled the flight (presumably for reason within their control as it was 4 hours in advance) and could/did not put you onto an alternative flight, either with themselves or others the same day makes them liable.
BA contracted to get you from point A to point B on a set date - they have to do this via whatever reasonable means, or provide you with accomodation and or meal vouchers depending on the length of the delay.
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MS - Sorry, I dont understand your point in relation to my posts and thinking BA is like a bus company...however, if you want to use the example of the bus company, your anology totally misses the point.
"The FD watched 2 of his busses sail by, so caught a rival firms bus"...
What?
More accurate would be..."FD was on his way to the bus stop, and saw the bus sitting at the stop, with a couple of people boarding, the FD ran to try and catch the bus, but the bus departed, as it was time for it to do so. The FD was really angry, and after a few minutes another passenger joined him at the bus stop, the FD proceeded to tell him all about how unfair it was that the bus didnt wait for him, but the man just said "Why should it wait, you were not on time, if your not on time you have to wait for the next bus"
"The FD watched 2 of his busses sail by, so caught a rival firms bus"...
What?
More accurate would be..."FD was on his way to the bus stop, and saw the bus sitting at the stop, with a couple of people boarding, the FD ran to try and catch the bus, but the bus departed, as it was time for it to do so. The FD was really angry, and after a few minutes another passenger joined him at the bus stop, the FD proceeded to tell him all about how unfair it was that the bus didnt wait for him, but the man just said "Why should it wait, you were not on time, if your not on time you have to wait for the next bus"
Too mean to buy a long personal title
However, seriously, my other point is that conformance is not an intelligent way to behave, especially in a downturm.
Now, I wouldn't cut things as fine as Munnyspinner, but a sensible airline would try to proactively get someone with a long premium history onto a flight, not just to chop them.
Now, I wouldn't cut things as fine as Munnyspinner, but a sensible airline would try to proactively get someone with a long premium history onto a flight, not just to chop them.
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I did have to wait 20 minutes at the gate before anyone from BA showed even the remotest interest in boarding the flight. We departed on time...
Arrival was punctual but, of course it would be because the scheduled flight time is now 1hr 20...
Your irrational hatred of BA, apparently simply on the grounds that they do not schedule their operations solely around you, is laughable.
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The BMI block to block times are the same - I agree. The difference is that you have some leeway as to when you arrive at the gate Provided you getto the gate on time - no problem. At BA conformance adds an extra 15 minutes to waiting times ( at the very least) and if you don't make conformance you get bumped regardless.
Interesting that BA will waive conformance for some pax - it will make the rest of us feel even more disadvantaged.
I have no hatred of BA but a loathing of petty bureaucracy that is ruining what was once a great company.
Interesting that BA will waive conformance for some pax - it will make the rest of us feel even more disadvantaged.
I have no hatred of BA but a loathing of petty bureaucracy that is ruining what was once a great company.
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Grounded,
I know you can be slow sometimes but....
The analogy was meant to highlight the fact that the bus company had not managed to convey to its staff what really mattered to the customers. Punctuality was everything to the extent that the buses didn't even stop for the pax. Irony - geddit?
If conformance works then to abandon conformance would certainly result in delays? - I don't belive that it would. I think conformance is an idea that was introduced to assist BA in the early stages of T5 when wayfinding was not established ( actually, I think it is still confusing compared with some other airports but has improved - maybe its just me?).
The punctuality push went much further than simply conformanace and BA can now point to much better stats. However, I think the results have been achieved due to the combination of factors. Slavishly hanging onto conformance means that we will never find out if this is the key to improved punctuality or not. But, I know that I am not the only passenger that feels it is overkill.
If BA want to discriminate between different tiers in the exec club that might be a start.
I know you can be slow sometimes but....
The analogy was meant to highlight the fact that the bus company had not managed to convey to its staff what really mattered to the customers. Punctuality was everything to the extent that the buses didn't even stop for the pax. Irony - geddit?
If conformance works then to abandon conformance would certainly result in delays? - I don't belive that it would. I think conformance is an idea that was introduced to assist BA in the early stages of T5 when wayfinding was not established ( actually, I think it is still confusing compared with some other airports but has improved - maybe its just me?).
The punctuality push went much further than simply conformanace and BA can now point to much better stats. However, I think the results have been achieved due to the combination of factors. Slavishly hanging onto conformance means that we will never find out if this is the key to improved punctuality or not. But, I know that I am not the only passenger that feels it is overkill.
If BA want to discriminate between different tiers in the exec club that might be a start.
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At the end of the day, we have heard your opinions on numerous anti BA threads that you have started. A lot of people don't mind obeying the conformance rules that allow the punctuality to improve. You disagree and have offered opinions as to why this is the case.
Not a single metric, no qualtifiable data as to this. ( sure you're not a Scottish banker ? ) That's fine as this is hardly a court, but you are really coming over as boorishly anti-BA and you are not listening to many of the good points poeple have made. It's beginning to look like you have an agenda all on your own here.
You have started FOUR anti British Airways threads recently. All because you failed to arrive on time for a flight.
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...h-airways.html
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...a-lcy-edi.html
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...lts-vs-ba.html
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...ance-rant.html
For God's sake man, just grow up and buy a bloody watch! You make some good points but they drown in the bile! As former cabin crew you ought to know better than
Then I remember how you view other peoples rules...
Not a single metric, no qualtifiable data as to this. ( sure you're not a Scottish banker ? ) That's fine as this is hardly a court, but you are really coming over as boorishly anti-BA and you are not listening to many of the good points poeple have made. It's beginning to look like you have an agenda all on your own here.
You have started FOUR anti British Airways threads recently. All because you failed to arrive on time for a flight.
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...h-airways.html
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...a-lcy-edi.html
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...lts-vs-ba.html
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...ance-rant.html
For God's sake man, just grow up and buy a bloody watch! You make some good points but they drown in the bile! As former cabin crew you ought to know better than
Then I remember how you view other peoples rules...
I used to occasionally use my airside pass to shop before a trip - leave my purchases landside then go back though security for duty. It was handy where electonic items were on special offer and I didn't want to cart them from pillar to post on a trip or rely on BAA's super efficient buy and collect service - don't know if this is still available either. Can't say whether I was breaking any rules or not and was never challenged - I once had the same conversation with the same security operative at LHR about 40 mins apart -
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 28th May 2009 at 20:55.
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Skipness,
I will say nothing more about conformance - don't need to , it's been done to death. But I'm not alone in my views. And, in fairness to BA they did sort everything out quite fairly and I have no axe to grind over that incident any more. I have no disrespect for those who wish to adhere to rules which I may regard as silly and, if I chose to avoid being bound by the same rules, that is my call.
Yes, I started one thread because I was bumped off a flight because I arrived 33 minutes before departure. The definition of late was BA's not mine. In 33 minutes I could travel from T1 to Paddington and Back by HEX. Please read the whole thread as you will see that I did thank those at BA for sorting things out.
The other threads were not overtly or deliberately anti BA but seem to have developed that way. I have no agenda and people like you will always seek to defend BA whatever - which only encourages further debate. I would refer you to some of the other postings that are objectively critical of BA. And I will repeat, I used to be a BA fan but see too much wrong with the company to remain silent. And, no, not soley because I was bumped off a flight - that would be petty. No doubt, you will draw you own misguided conclusions.
Rules need to be tested form time to time as occasionally they are absurd. Did I break any rules using my airside pass to go shopping - you tell me! But, I am pretty sure I didn't.
As regards bile, I have tried to represent my extreme views and make some good points as politely as possible without boorish, racist and abusive comment and will continue to do so. If this causes you offence then so much the better. Keep taking the pills.
I will say nothing more about conformance - don't need to , it's been done to death. But I'm not alone in my views. And, in fairness to BA they did sort everything out quite fairly and I have no axe to grind over that incident any more. I have no disrespect for those who wish to adhere to rules which I may regard as silly and, if I chose to avoid being bound by the same rules, that is my call.
Yes, I started one thread because I was bumped off a flight because I arrived 33 minutes before departure. The definition of late was BA's not mine. In 33 minutes I could travel from T1 to Paddington and Back by HEX. Please read the whole thread as you will see that I did thank those at BA for sorting things out.
The other threads were not overtly or deliberately anti BA but seem to have developed that way. I have no agenda and people like you will always seek to defend BA whatever - which only encourages further debate. I would refer you to some of the other postings that are objectively critical of BA. And I will repeat, I used to be a BA fan but see too much wrong with the company to remain silent. And, no, not soley because I was bumped off a flight - that would be petty. No doubt, you will draw you own misguided conclusions.
Rules need to be tested form time to time as occasionally they are absurd. Did I break any rules using my airside pass to go shopping - you tell me! But, I am pretty sure I didn't.
As regards bile, I have tried to represent my extreme views and make some good points as politely as possible without boorish, racist and abusive comment and will continue to do so. If this causes you offence then so much the better. Keep taking the pills.