Whingeing Ryanfliers
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Whingeing Ryanfliers
Is it just me or does everyone have to groan and gripe about the poison dwarf's airline?
Ryaniar are only there to make money and the more the better. They do this by operating on a tight margin but perpetually lowering their exposure to risk, increasing revenue and reducing costs. This is only possible becuse they know that the size of the market is significantly greater than the number of passengers they need to make their business model work i.e. they don't rely on any loyalty and expect repeat passengers will take a decision on their travel needs based only on individual need and price. This clearly suits lots and lots of people.
I cannot see the point in moaning about Ryanair as it it a pointless and no doubt fruitless exercise - they won't listen and I doubt they actually care what people say. If it makes more money for Ryanair they will do whatever they need.
Charging for aspects of a journey that generate additional charges for the airline is eminently sensible. If you can check in online - check in online - it's free. If you want someone else to do it for you, and it's not difficult, then pay the charge.
I have never and probably willnever fly with the Ryan because I usually have a choice of airlines and I prefer quality over price. Eveyone has a choice. If you choose ryanair please don't keep on complaining - you know what your going to get before you book your ticket.
Ryaniar are only there to make money and the more the better. They do this by operating on a tight margin but perpetually lowering their exposure to risk, increasing revenue and reducing costs. This is only possible becuse they know that the size of the market is significantly greater than the number of passengers they need to make their business model work i.e. they don't rely on any loyalty and expect repeat passengers will take a decision on their travel needs based only on individual need and price. This clearly suits lots and lots of people.
I cannot see the point in moaning about Ryanair as it it a pointless and no doubt fruitless exercise - they won't listen and I doubt they actually care what people say. If it makes more money for Ryanair they will do whatever they need.
Charging for aspects of a journey that generate additional charges for the airline is eminently sensible. If you can check in online - check in online - it's free. If you want someone else to do it for you, and it's not difficult, then pay the charge.
I have never and probably willnever fly with the Ryan because I usually have a choice of airlines and I prefer quality over price. Eveyone has a choice. If you choose ryanair please don't keep on complaining - you know what your going to get before you book your ticket.
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Check in will no longer be free for all. If you've been following the news and threads on here about their recent plans, from May 20th you'll be charged £5/€5 to check in unless you have bought one of their very cheapest fares on all new bookings.
The fact that they are now charging people for a process that has to be completed in order to travel is what's causing the outrage at the moment... Bundled with their plan to charge a horrendous amount for those who have problems with printing, or forget to bring their passes to the airport. Charging £40/€40 for something that, in reality, only costs 10p or so is nothing shy of daylight robbery.
To cover a couple of your other points - you said you're probably never going to fly with them. Very good that you have a choice of other airlines. However there are people, believe it or not, that need to travel on a budget. Which is why FR appeal to so many. The reason for all the moaning and whinging which is obviously annoying you, is because they are very sneaky in how they add extra charges and fees to jack up the price, making it more costlier than first thought. And not everyone has access to these forums, or pays much attention to big news stories about FR, and don't find this out until after they've been stung - and they are more than within their rights to kick up a fuss about it.
People are always going to whinge and moan about Ryanair, because of the very way they conduct business - sneaking in charges, trying to slipstream their insurance into your booking without you noticing - and you're just going to have to put up with all the whinging. No, Ryanair won't listen and change their ways, but it's not going to stop people trying to get them to listen up.
The fact that they are now charging people for a process that has to be completed in order to travel is what's causing the outrage at the moment... Bundled with their plan to charge a horrendous amount for those who have problems with printing, or forget to bring their passes to the airport. Charging £40/€40 for something that, in reality, only costs 10p or so is nothing shy of daylight robbery.
To cover a couple of your other points - you said you're probably never going to fly with them. Very good that you have a choice of other airlines. However there are people, believe it or not, that need to travel on a budget. Which is why FR appeal to so many. The reason for all the moaning and whinging which is obviously annoying you, is because they are very sneaky in how they add extra charges and fees to jack up the price, making it more costlier than first thought. And not everyone has access to these forums, or pays much attention to big news stories about FR, and don't find this out until after they've been stung - and they are more than within their rights to kick up a fuss about it.
People are always going to whinge and moan about Ryanair, because of the very way they conduct business - sneaking in charges, trying to slipstream their insurance into your booking without you noticing - and you're just going to have to put up with all the whinging. No, Ryanair won't listen and change their ways, but it's not going to stop people trying to get them to listen up.
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I totally endorse what Rafelle says and would add that some do not have a choice and also some do not what crap service FR offers.
FR's core customer is someone who can't afford to fly BA, LH, KLM etc and are less inclined to read small print. Often their choice has been greatly reduced because another loco has been forced off a route because FR has come in and carried out a war of attrition using its financial muscle and the better loco has had to withdraw. FR then pushes up prices and often reduces frequency.
In my case I wish to go to Granada if I go anywhere in Spain so am stuck with FR out of Liverpool unless I want to go to Malaga and hire a car, defeating the object of using loco.
Their customer service is appaling, you only find that out after you have a problem, and exhibit amazing inflexibility.
I agreee they are there to make money but I always thought that had to be done ethically otherwise we are back to the bad old days of Rachmanite landlords etc.
I do not knock FR on principal, I do so because I have experienced them as a shyster company, the last time from Murcia was that, the last.
FR's core customer is someone who can't afford to fly BA, LH, KLM etc and are less inclined to read small print. Often their choice has been greatly reduced because another loco has been forced off a route because FR has come in and carried out a war of attrition using its financial muscle and the better loco has had to withdraw. FR then pushes up prices and often reduces frequency.
In my case I wish to go to Granada if I go anywhere in Spain so am stuck with FR out of Liverpool unless I want to go to Malaga and hire a car, defeating the object of using loco.
Their customer service is appaling, you only find that out after you have a problem, and exhibit amazing inflexibility.
I agreee they are there to make money but I always thought that had to be done ethically otherwise we are back to the bad old days of Rachmanite landlords etc.
I do not knock FR on principal, I do so because I have experienced them as a shyster company, the last time from Murcia was that, the last.
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I do not knock FR on principal, I do so because I have experienced them as a shyster company, the last time from Murcia was that, the last.
MOL must be $hitting himself only 63,599,999 passengers left using his service.
MOL must be $hitting himself only 63,599,999 passengers left using his service.
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al446
Well that may be what you experienced, but has it ever occurred to you that the people who write in with their horror stories are always the moaners and that the vast majority of customers (and we're talking big numbers of passengers here pall) never feel the need to put pen to paper because they got from A to B safely and without incident? Has it ever occurred to you that people vote with their feet, so if everyone really was so distraught by their 'customer experience' the airline would no longer exist? Of course it hadn't.
My experience of flying with Ryanair has been nothing but excellent. On many occasions. If something doesn't work out, I'll be sure to check whether it was any less likely to with BA before moaning about it here.
There really is nothing worse than a whinger, so if you don't like it then either fly with someone else or just stay at home. Either way, stop moaning on about 'how appalling' it is. It isn't.
My experience of flying with Ryanair has been nothing but excellent. On many occasions. If something doesn't work out, I'll be sure to check whether it was any less likely to with BA before moaning about it here.
There really is nothing worse than a whinger, so if you don't like it then either fly with someone else or just stay at home. Either way, stop moaning on about 'how appalling' it is. It isn't.
Last edited by Nicholas49; 14th May 2009 at 22:13. Reason: al446
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Munnyspinner,
let me point out that ALL businesses are there to make money, the more the better. I do agree, however, that money making could be done more ethically, and that there should be stricter regulation rgarding "hidden extras".
But surely, Ryanair must be doing SOMETHING right, as millions of people still book with them.
let me point out that ALL businesses are there to make money, the more the better. I do agree, however, that money making could be done more ethically, and that there should be stricter regulation rgarding "hidden extras".
But surely, Ryanair must be doing SOMETHING right, as millions of people still book with them.
MOL must be $hitting himself only 63,599,999 passengers left using his service.
FR's core customer is someone who can't afford to fly BA, LH, KLM
I travel regularly from Maastricht to Birmingham. My options are to travel initially by car to Brussels, Dusseldorf or Weeze. All three are roughly 1 hour´s drive. Amsterdam is too far away and out of the reckoning. I book my trips up to 4 months in advance. For my particular circumstances (bag to check in for instance) I find that once past the initial low fare quotes made by Flybe (DUS) and RYR (Weeze) the end total comes to within a few Euros of the total Brussels Airlines fare (BRU). Brussels Airlines booking process is easy and up front with regard to what you pay. Furthermore, free self-allocated seat upon web check-in, FF program, and above all the feeling that you are treated all the way as a valued customer. Cheapest of all, but only in July and August (for obvious reasons) is Lufthansa. I wonder how many RYR customers who actually want to travel to Dusseldorf in July or August would even consider checking Lufthansa fares? They´ve been brainwashed into thinking there can´t be cheaper than the likes of RYR. But how long for?
Of course we need competition to keep prices realistic, but not in the direction RYR is going. That´s not competition, that´s taking the pi$$ out of your customers.
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Look at MPs expenses. Push a good thing too far and the public get's unforgiveably pissed off. There *ARE* limits to how much people will put up with.
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I agree with your comments.
Public emotion and tipping points are unpredictable, but Ryanair have had a quite run of growth.
It remains to be seen whether the loco model is economically sustainable in the longer term and if not, whether the punters will continue to put their hands in their pockets for extra charges.
I agree with your comments.
Public emotion and tipping points are unpredictable, but Ryanair have had a quite run of growth.
It remains to be seen whether the loco model is economically sustainable in the longer term and if not, whether the punters will continue to put their hands in their pockets for extra charges.
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Remember when you lads used to complain about British Rail and goodness I was soo fed up listening to whinging about the British Rail sandwich.
IF someone can fly to Malaga for macaroni its a bargain. If the next time they fly they pay a one-er they are still getting a bargain. Isnt it all about perception?
IF someone can fly to Malaga for macaroni its a bargain. If the next time they fly they pay a one-er they are still getting a bargain. Isnt it all about perception?
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Munnyspinner - Thank you, you have given me a huge laugh this morning.
So much so that I had to read your post twice.
I am really surprised that you took the time to start this thread, defending FR, when you constantly complain on various threads about BA - everything to do with BA, service, rules etc, etc.
Can you explain why you attack BA and defend FR?
So much so that I had to read your post twice.
I am really surprised that you took the time to start this thread, defending FR, when you constantly complain on various threads about BA - everything to do with BA, service, rules etc, etc.
Can you explain why you attack BA and defend FR?
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Nicholas49
Please let me know where in my post above I am "whinging"?
All I was doing was pointing out that the starter of this post has on many, many occasions in various threads on this site constantly complained about BA, and I would like to know how he can defend FR while attacking BA.
I work in the travel business selling airline tickets, and have sold to both the leisure and corporate communities.
My issue with all airlines (not just FR) is regarding transparancy of pricing. The headline fare should now encompass all non optional extras.
Then if passengers want to add on anything else, its up to them.
My specific issue with FR is regarding their attitude to their customers when things do go wrong. You are left high and dry. I have never heard (or read on here) about FR showing any compassion/common sense assistance when things go wrong.
FR do not do business with Travel Agents - they describe Travel Agents as "ticket touts who mark up fares and rip off our customers".
I believe people should have the choice - many business people do not have the time to book their own flights (or the patience to navigate the booking site to ensure they have "ticked" or "unticked" the right boxes)
Once FR announced their "ban" on Travel Agents, we obviously still had forward bookings in the system, which FR had to honour.
When calling their call centre to ask any type of question, once it was established that the booking was made by a travel agent, FR hung up.
Oh - and in my personal experiance, FR have lost approx £98k in bookings that have been switched to other carriers.
We clearly explain to our clients that we can not book FR as FR will not allow us to do so; we then give the client the choice of either booking with FR direct, or travelling with a different airline via ourselves. The vast majority choose an alternative airline.
Please let me know where in my post above I am "whinging"?
All I was doing was pointing out that the starter of this post has on many, many occasions in various threads on this site constantly complained about BA, and I would like to know how he can defend FR while attacking BA.
I work in the travel business selling airline tickets, and have sold to both the leisure and corporate communities.
My issue with all airlines (not just FR) is regarding transparancy of pricing. The headline fare should now encompass all non optional extras.
Then if passengers want to add on anything else, its up to them.
My specific issue with FR is regarding their attitude to their customers when things do go wrong. You are left high and dry. I have never heard (or read on here) about FR showing any compassion/common sense assistance when things go wrong.
FR do not do business with Travel Agents - they describe Travel Agents as "ticket touts who mark up fares and rip off our customers".
I believe people should have the choice - many business people do not have the time to book their own flights (or the patience to navigate the booking site to ensure they have "ticked" or "unticked" the right boxes)
Once FR announced their "ban" on Travel Agents, we obviously still had forward bookings in the system, which FR had to honour.
When calling their call centre to ask any type of question, once it was established that the booking was made by a travel agent, FR hung up.
Oh - and in my personal experiance, FR have lost approx £98k in bookings that have been switched to other carriers.
We clearly explain to our clients that we can not book FR as FR will not allow us to do so; we then give the client the choice of either booking with FR direct, or travelling with a different airline via ourselves. The vast majority choose an alternative airline.
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I know a travel agent - in an area with a large number of private and corporate clients who prefer to pick up a phone to arrange all their travel - who reckons he diverts 15-20 seat/sector sales per day from Ryanair to other carriers, once the clients know that if they want to travel FR they must make the bookings.
He has charged his clients an admin fee for years for booking their loco flights on zero commission, and they are happy to pay.
Ryanair can - presumably - afford to lose travel agency business at the moment, even when that loss is extrapolated to the whole of Europe. But as times get harder it, just like Easyjet, will need the friends and customers it seems determined to lose when it doesn't need them.
Cash reserves can melt away alarmingly fast, and Ryanair is now just as vulnerable to rumour and consequent negative cash flow as the competitors it has tried in the past 18 months to destroy by rumour.
He has charged his clients an admin fee for years for booking their loco flights on zero commission, and they are happy to pay.
Ryanair can - presumably - afford to lose travel agency business at the moment, even when that loss is extrapolated to the whole of Europe. But as times get harder it, just like Easyjet, will need the friends and customers it seems determined to lose when it doesn't need them.
Cash reserves can melt away alarmingly fast, and Ryanair is now just as vulnerable to rumour and consequent negative cash flow as the competitors it has tried in the past 18 months to destroy by rumour.
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One thing that I have never understood is why FR wants to ban Travel Agents anyway.
So what if they charge a fee, if the client is happy to pay it.
If FR have a seat for sale at £X - why do they care who buys it?
So what if they charge a fee, if the client is happy to pay it.
If FR have a seat for sale at £X - why do they care who buys it?
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There may be a point if Ryanair's charging was transparent and honest, but it is not. I have long ago stopped flying Ryanair and eventually so will others. O'Leary's hostility to his pilots, staff and customers is ok when you are the little guy fighting the big established legacy carriers. But he is now the big guy and becoming financially abusive.
I don't object to him charging whatever he likes, but his pricing is deliberately deceptive. It amounts to "bait & switch" and there is no legitimate reason for many of his practices. He is also a monumental hypocrite. For example, claiming the DAA and BAA are price gouging and also complaining about the mark ups on fuel and certain airports. His mark up's on using credit cards is at loan shark type rates, but when challenged states that Ryanair can charge what they like.
The most offensive part of Ryanair though is their contempt for the law and the fact that they get away with it. For example, internet based companies are required to have an email address for customer complaints or issues. Ryanair refuses to do so. If you have a legitimate complaint about Ryanair they charge you to address it. If you have to call them, you must pay them to fix the problem. If they fail to deliver the service and you need to claim it on your insurance, they charge you to provide evidence that they failed to provide the service. These are utterly indefensible and amount to stripping away from the consumer any realistic remedy. The only way to address this is to more strictly regulate them. It is a cowboy outfit, run by a cowboy who is making millions by ripping off people. He has set things up in such a way that he rips off large numbers of people with relatively small amounts per person and relies on the fact that most people will shrug and walk away.
I don't object to him charging whatever he likes, but his pricing is deliberately deceptive. It amounts to "bait & switch" and there is no legitimate reason for many of his practices. He is also a monumental hypocrite. For example, claiming the DAA and BAA are price gouging and also complaining about the mark ups on fuel and certain airports. His mark up's on using credit cards is at loan shark type rates, but when challenged states that Ryanair can charge what they like.
The most offensive part of Ryanair though is their contempt for the law and the fact that they get away with it. For example, internet based companies are required to have an email address for customer complaints or issues. Ryanair refuses to do so. If you have a legitimate complaint about Ryanair they charge you to address it. If you have to call them, you must pay them to fix the problem. If they fail to deliver the service and you need to claim it on your insurance, they charge you to provide evidence that they failed to provide the service. These are utterly indefensible and amount to stripping away from the consumer any realistic remedy. The only way to address this is to more strictly regulate them. It is a cowboy outfit, run by a cowboy who is making millions by ripping off people. He has set things up in such a way that he rips off large numbers of people with relatively small amounts per person and relies on the fact that most people will shrug and walk away.
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One thing that I have never understood is why FR wants to ban Travel Agents anyway. So what if they charge a fee, if the client is happy to pay it. If FR have a seat for sale at £X - why do they care who buys it?
1. If people booked via another website, they weren't exposed to Ryanair's other "offers" - i.e. Ryanair weren't going to get any ancilliary revenue for insurance, car hire, hotels, etc., etc. As this is now a very important part of Ryanair's income, it is in their interest to have everyone going through their website and being exposed to these [ahem] "offers"
2. On-line booking sites would quite lay out the fares, leaving the punter with a clear view of when Ryanair was not the cheapest. Ryanair depends to a significant extent on the ignorant believing that they will always be cheapest, and thus anything that exposes that myth as untrue is not in Ryanair's interest
For the same reasons as the above, it is not at present in Ryanair's interest to use travel agents. Travel agents are unlikely to offer insurance, car hire, hotels etc through Ryanair, and any good travel agent will earn their commission by offering alternatives, especially when there are better alternatives available. So, like I say, at present its just not in Ryanair's interests. Come the glorious day, things will hopefully be different!!!
Andy