Late touch-down and extremeley heaving braking at BHX today...
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I landed at Birmingham today and along with most other passengers had to support myself on the seat in-front in order to avoid hitting it.
Regarding 'wobbly' approaches, I have had many a 'cheek clenching' experience coming into NCL from the East (over the coast), but this always seems par for the course up here as we do tend to get our fair share of windy conditions.
Seat belts worn, expect a couple of 'wobbles' - no problem!
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I flew into Birmingham yesterday morning. I hope I wasn't flying the plane you were on because I didn't think my approach and landing was too bad! You didn't fly in from Belfast did you?
Warning Toxic!
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My god!,why you always think someone is thinking of doomsday?
I was just wonder and had no concern what so ever about this being dangerous or pilot error or or or or,,,i was curious and just a question!!
I was just wonder and had no concern what so ever about this being dangerous or pilot error or or or or,,,i was curious and just a question!!
There comes a time when pandering to their nervousness achieves nothing. You have to say 'live with it and beat it, or don't travel at all! You chose. But you don't chose at engine start time!'
It takes a lot of coarseness and brutality, which is where I come in. I find it works. Passengers who are allegedly suddenly 'too nervous to fly' are mysteriously able to when subject to a Rainboe tirade in front of the other passengers who they are about to delay for an hour or two because they feel like 'chickening out' at the last minute. You don't 'chicken out' with me. You buy a ticket, you present your ass in that seat at the appointed time with a big smile on your face, and off we go, and I get paid. You don't present your ass in that seat and then say 'Sorry, I don't really want to go now!' and hold everyone up for hours while your worthless bags are located and removed.
It's OK to be nervous, don't be shy! We all are to a degree. It shows when you have to know why the aeroplane braked heavily or it lurched to one side slightly. But you have shown you can conquor it. Good for you!
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Sorry, but in my experience, everyone who ever asks what every lump and bump and funny lurch and noise is, is in fact a nervous flyer.
There comes a time when pandering to their nervousness achieves nothing. You have to say 'live with it and beat it, or don't travel at all! You chose. But you don't chose at engine start time!'
There comes a time when pandering to their nervousness achieves nothing. You have to say 'live with it and beat it, or don't travel at all! You chose. But you don't chose at engine start time!'
To be quite honest, I appreciated it.
<end of brown nosing>
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darrenmorris - can I make a suggestion?
The next time you experience this sort of thing, the best thing is to ask the pilots of your aircraft. When you are disembarking, if you ask a member of the cabin crew really politely whether you can speak to the pilots, they will probably say yes. You can then ask your question directly and you will get your answer. It really is a better course of action than coming on an anonymous forum later and asking a vague question which no one, not even a professional, can answer with any degree of accuracy given that they weren't there.
The next time you experience this sort of thing, the best thing is to ask the pilots of your aircraft. When you are disembarking, if you ask a member of the cabin crew really politely whether you can speak to the pilots, they will probably say yes. You can then ask your question directly and you will get your answer. It really is a better course of action than coming on an anonymous forum later and asking a vague question which no one, not even a professional, can answer with any degree of accuracy given that they weren't there.
Warning Toxic!
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well thank you Avitor- nothing personal was meant, although it is taken as such by so many, but we do seem to have reached a level of safety in aviation where anything so much as a slightly heavier than normal landing or a go-around is now perceived as 'dangerous- where's my lawyer? What have you done to me?' In the past, one was relieved merely to have survived the experience (and one frequently didn't). Now it's all so safe, people feel really aggrieved over the slightest non-normal thing. Look at the various outbursts re Pen ('my mother didn't check my sex') Hadow's ridiculous Ryanair depressurisation at Lyons last year. You would think Ryanair personally insulted each and every passenger whereas they were perfectly and responsibly (and satisfactorily) handled. They all wanted to sue instead of queueing for the Captain's autograph (3 Euros each to Ryanair please) and falling at MOL's feet shrieking 'we are unworthy!'
It has to stop before we go completely like America. Common sense must be made to rule.
It has to stop before we go completely like America. Common sense must be made to rule.
Only agree with you up to a point Rainboe. Remember this is the SLF forum. It's by asking questions that people can educate themselves. No harm in asking, but it's how you ask. What often bugs me are the SUN newspaper headline-type superflous comments/incorrect deductions which accompany perfectly reasonable questions.
Many years ago, in a B707 over the Atlantic, we were in the cruise nice and smooth when we suddenly rolled and pitched. The manouver was violent enough for a number of pax to scream. We recovered quickly and that was that. I had a good idea what may have happened and thought no more of it. There were lots of nervous pax for the rest of the flight. A little explanation from the boys up front might have helped. In a lifetime of flying most pax may probably never experience "unusual" events, so when it does happen I can understand the need for a curious "ïs it normal" or "what caused this" question. Just keep the question factual and simple.
Many years ago, in a B707 over the Atlantic, we were in the cruise nice and smooth when we suddenly rolled and pitched. The manouver was violent enough for a number of pax to scream. We recovered quickly and that was that. I had a good idea what may have happened and thought no more of it. There were lots of nervous pax for the rest of the flight. A little explanation from the boys up front might have helped. In a lifetime of flying most pax may probably never experience "unusual" events, so when it does happen I can understand the need for a curious "ïs it normal" or "what caused this" question. Just keep the question factual and simple.
Warning Toxic!
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Quite. Couldn't agre more, and I agree explanations for such events are required. However, there is very often an observable degree of smouldering resentment that whatever happened, 'it was the fault of those monkeys up front and I want to know what they were doing with my safety, NOW!'. People these days go on cruise ships, then expect to sue everyone in sight if the ship runs into a storm or rocks too much. How outrageous, ships occasionally experience storms! Go to India as a tourist and people complain the food is 'foreign' and nobody speaks English (in fact they speak English better than the English!). People must be reminded to be more pragmatic and understanding of the unexpected.
....Or Rainboe will be unleashed!
....Or Rainboe will be unleashed!
I don't know the reason for the particular landing here but I can quote three I have experienced where I asked and found out:
1) Chicago - BA 747. Very heavy breaking on landing. Pilot announced (I didn't ask in this case) that there was a China 747 in front of us on approach and by breaking heavily he could get us to the terminal first and thus in front of those passengers in the queue.
2) Heathrow - BA 757. Firm arrival, heavy braking, full reverse thrust. It turned out that another aircraft with a medical emergency had pulled in front of us (it should have been on the "other" runway but there was a legitimate reason why it wasn't) leaving very short spacing. Furthermore, when we slowed to improve spacing the plane behind us couldn't fly as slowly so pilot knew he had to clear quickly.
3) Belfast - BA 737. Firm landing as close as possible to runway threshold, full reverse thrust, heavy braking (something fell out in the galley with a crash!). We were late (not much), only 3 exits from the runway and if we rolled to the end it would have made us even later - heavy braking got us off the middle exit and to the terminal almost on time.
So, two out of three were "customer service" oriented. I've little doubt there are many more reasons and to explain every one would require several books.
1) Chicago - BA 747. Very heavy breaking on landing. Pilot announced (I didn't ask in this case) that there was a China 747 in front of us on approach and by breaking heavily he could get us to the terminal first and thus in front of those passengers in the queue.
2) Heathrow - BA 757. Firm arrival, heavy braking, full reverse thrust. It turned out that another aircraft with a medical emergency had pulled in front of us (it should have been on the "other" runway but there was a legitimate reason why it wasn't) leaving very short spacing. Furthermore, when we slowed to improve spacing the plane behind us couldn't fly as slowly so pilot knew he had to clear quickly.
3) Belfast - BA 737. Firm landing as close as possible to runway threshold, full reverse thrust, heavy braking (something fell out in the galley with a crash!). We were late (not much), only 3 exits from the runway and if we rolled to the end it would have made us even later - heavy braking got us off the middle exit and to the terminal almost on time.
So, two out of three were "customer service" oriented. I've little doubt there are many more reasons and to explain every one would require several books.
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Hartington - out of interest, how did you find out the reasons given in scenario 2? Did you ask the pilot yourself? I just can't imagine him explaining all that over the PA without some passengers having a heart attack, or as Rainboe says wanting to sue the airline!
the lunatic fringe
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I was based at Birmingham for 12 years. Man and Boy. Dan Air, and BA. Birmingham is a pig of a place. It has a runway at 90 degrees to the prevailing wind. More than that it sits in a hollow, so the wind curls out over the edge of the hill and makes mayhem with you on as you are about to touch down.
Even in the most moderate of breezes it is turbulent into BHX. On a windy day it is prehistoric in its ferocity.
If you fly into BHX as SLF, live with it. It comes with the territory. As a pilot if you can survive a few equinoctial seasons you will forever be good at crosswinds and turbulence.
Rough is a normal day at Birmingham.
Even in the most moderate of breezes it is turbulent into BHX. On a windy day it is prehistoric in its ferocity.
If you fly into BHX as SLF, live with it. It comes with the territory. As a pilot if you can survive a few equinoctial seasons you will forever be good at crosswinds and turbulence.
Rough is a normal day at Birmingham.
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the A/C suddenly did a hefty left turn/diving,, the reaction from pilot was within seconds and you could feel how AP was turned of
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A long long time ago, British Midland GLA-LHR usual routine departed GLA on schedule, pleasant trip to LHR and as usual we entered the hold. On our second orbit everything was just fine and I was gazing out of the window watching the other aircraft in the hold when suddenly all hell broke loose! It felt as if the aircraft had been dropped on to an old corrigated washboard it was shaking so hard it was difficult to focus my vision on anything, a number of overhead bins popped open and spilled their contents and one cabincrew member was thrown to the floor I just happened to briefly glimpse the wing flexing like I've never seen before or since. It was all over in a matter of seconds although it felt like minutes. Immediately the Capt explained in the most calming style that we had just passed through the jetwash of a B757 which had passed slightly above and left to right some distance ahead of us. The one thing that amazed me was there was not one scream or groan or moan from any of the passengers.
Had many an interesting landing in my time, that's what makes flying fun, never two the same!
Had many an interesting landing in my time, that's what makes flying fun, never two the same!
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I used to date a Mon flight attendant and heard plenty of CAT stories -the nastiest involved a few limbs and a trolly doing a drinks service. That is a heck of a mass to hit the ceiling and come crashing down again (the trolly, that is 
)
Also I've flown through my own turbulence whilst doing steep turns on the PPL course - that's quite interesting in a C152. (and yes, yes I know that means I did it wrong)
)Also I've flown through my own turbulence whilst doing steep turns on the PPL course - that's quite interesting in a C152. (and yes, yes I know that means I did it wrong)
