Gatwick North terminal - not my aisle!!
Thread Starter
Gatwick North terminal - not my aisle!!
Time to top stewing and start posting, cos as a worker in the industry if the nonsense I saw this morning continues Aviation workers in the UK are going to be looking for new jobs.
Traveling early this AM through Gatwick North terminal; I, along with many others, had run the gaunlet of the charming Yellow T shirt brigade and were heading through the roped channels towards the boarding pass control booths. My queue stops, due to the speed of processing of one particular passenger. File of people builds up behind us. Then several of us notice the two booths to the left of us are suddenly clear so we decide to ask, ever so nicely, if it's possible to slide across, under the barriers to be processed via one of the vacant lines.
Answer.. "No".....We ask again..."No". Thought about asking WTFN but decide as this is UK best to shut up and wait otherwise we will all be no doubt labelled as disruptive and invited to meet the man and women in black. So over a dozen seething pax are left standing in line while the two other boarding card checkers gaze at their nails.
I've looked back on what happened, can't see any security rational to this nonsense, no "Elf and Safety" problems, so I have to conclude it was sheer bl***dy mindedness.
I fear for the future of the UK's airports, I really do.
Traveling early this AM through Gatwick North terminal; I, along with many others, had run the gaunlet of the charming Yellow T shirt brigade and were heading through the roped channels towards the boarding pass control booths. My queue stops, due to the speed of processing of one particular passenger. File of people builds up behind us. Then several of us notice the two booths to the left of us are suddenly clear so we decide to ask, ever so nicely, if it's possible to slide across, under the barriers to be processed via one of the vacant lines.
Answer.. "No".....We ask again..."No". Thought about asking WTFN but decide as this is UK best to shut up and wait otherwise we will all be no doubt labelled as disruptive and invited to meet the man and women in black. So over a dozen seething pax are left standing in line while the two other boarding card checkers gaze at their nails.
I've looked back on what happened, can't see any security rational to this nonsense, no "Elf and Safety" problems, so I have to conclude it was sheer bl***dy mindedness.
I fear for the future of the UK's airports, I really do.
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Just a possibility....
To comply with Department for Transport requirements, a certain amount of passengers must remove their shoes and place them through the x-ray machine, rather than simply walk through the archway wearing them. I believe that they acheive this at LGW by selecting security lanes at random and making them 100% shoe x-ray, whilst others will allow pax to walk through freely.
It could therefore be for this reason that they refused to allow you to change 'lanes', as it would obviously not be advantageous to allow a person to change lanes after realising that they'd be subjected to a higher level of security check in their original lane. Even if your lane wasn't x-raying shoes, there may be a blanket "no lane-change" rule in force to prevent confusion/maintain uniformity.
As I said .... just a possibility.
To comply with Department for Transport requirements, a certain amount of passengers must remove their shoes and place them through the x-ray machine, rather than simply walk through the archway wearing them. I believe that they acheive this at LGW by selecting security lanes at random and making them 100% shoe x-ray, whilst others will allow pax to walk through freely.
It could therefore be for this reason that they refused to allow you to change 'lanes', as it would obviously not be advantageous to allow a person to change lanes after realising that they'd be subjected to a higher level of security check in their original lane. Even if your lane wasn't x-raying shoes, there may be a blanket "no lane-change" rule in force to prevent confusion/maintain uniformity.
As I said .... just a possibility.
Paxing All Over The World
On my last trip through there in early march, staff in the North said it was one third have to have shoes x-rayed and so one queue in three is a shoe-off queue.
Thread Starter
Morning Guys
No, it wasn't down to shoes. Once through the boarding card booths the security screening area was v quiet ( I wonder why
) and the security screeners were quite happy to let us select our own arch/x-Ray queue ( and dumbo here still managed to get the shoes off line 
). I'm afraid I still think this episode was solely due to simple b***y mindedness by the ladies doing the boarding cards.
I know many of us here work in the industry and know that a Sunday AM early start ( or finish) isn't good for the sense of humour....but some staff ( and the managers who perhaps do indeed enforce a "no line change rule") need to remember that the travelling public pay their wages and if this sort of nonsense and lack of common sense continues the public won't be travelling through Gatwick, or the UK for that matter.
No, it wasn't down to shoes. Once through the boarding card booths the security screening area was v quiet ( I wonder why
) and the security screeners were quite happy to let us select our own arch/x-Ray queue ( and dumbo here still managed to get the shoes off line ). I'm afraid I still think this episode was solely due to simple b***y mindedness by the ladies doing the boarding cards.I know many of us here work in the industry and know that a Sunday AM early start ( or finish) isn't good for the sense of humour....but some staff ( and the managers who perhaps do indeed enforce a "no line change rule") need to remember that the travelling public pay their wages and if this sort of nonsense and lack of common sense continues the public won't be travelling through Gatwick, or the UK for that matter.
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wiggy
Were the from a temp agency?
I experienced similar stupidity from a temp who told me to put my laptop back in the case until I got to the screening machines because I would be carrying two pieces of hand luggage.
My reply was that this was ridiculous and I would not comply. (and I didn't.)
I then reported the incident to a supervisor who said it was lack of knowledge and that he would put him right.
Were the from a temp agency?
I experienced similar stupidity from a temp who told me to put my laptop back in the case until I got to the screening machines because I would be carrying two pieces of hand luggage.
My reply was that this was ridiculous and I would not comply. (and I didn't.)
I then reported the incident to a supervisor who said it was lack of knowledge and that he would put him right.
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Grrrrr
Was at Gatwick North last Wednesday evening for the first time in years. Took 50 (five-zero) minutes to get through security. Only 3 of the 9 available scanners in operation. Huge queues, much consternation.
What really, really got my goat is the life size cardboard cut outs they have. Of a smiling chap with his one bag and saying "I'm smiling because I've only got one bag". Actually mate, I'm very pi**ed off because I've only got one back and it is the numptie fellow passengers ahead of me who don't quite comprehend that 2 is more than 1, and so is 3, and 4 for that matter.
And the priority lane was closed - good thing I didn't buy the upgrade on the Gatwick express.
So before I revert totally to gas-guzzling selfish personal car transport I might suggest that the government air transport policy is changed to a system where each major airport is duplicated across town and we have "My First Airport" experiences for the once-per-year traveller and those who have to stop to read all the yellow sign directions, and don't quite realise shoes, coats, electronic devices, knives etc. have to be declared before security. And there will also be "Professional Airports" where frequent fliers can go - of course these airports will be funded by the additional tax revenues generated by frequent fliers. Those using a "Professional Airport" will be allowed one non-Professional Airport guest but will be responsible and liable for their behaviour at all times.
F3G - I had similar at LHR a couple of weeks ago, some numptie getting all hot and bothered about the two bag scenario "Yes, but this one fits into this one, I'm only getting the smaller one out so I can get my laptop out, as your colleagues will soon be demanding of me..."
Gatwick: An airport to avoid in the future!
Was at Gatwick North last Wednesday evening for the first time in years. Took 50 (five-zero) minutes to get through security. Only 3 of the 9 available scanners in operation. Huge queues, much consternation.
What really, really got my goat is the life size cardboard cut outs they have. Of a smiling chap with his one bag and saying "I'm smiling because I've only got one bag". Actually mate, I'm very pi**ed off because I've only got one back and it is the numptie fellow passengers ahead of me who don't quite comprehend that 2 is more than 1, and so is 3, and 4 for that matter.
And the priority lane was closed - good thing I didn't buy the upgrade on the Gatwick express.
So before I revert totally to gas-guzzling selfish personal car transport I might suggest that the government air transport policy is changed to a system where each major airport is duplicated across town and we have "My First Airport" experiences for the once-per-year traveller and those who have to stop to read all the yellow sign directions, and don't quite realise shoes, coats, electronic devices, knives etc. have to be declared before security. And there will also be "Professional Airports" where frequent fliers can go - of course these airports will be funded by the additional tax revenues generated by frequent fliers. Those using a "Professional Airport" will be allowed one non-Professional Airport guest but will be responsible and liable for their behaviour at all times.
F3G - I had similar at LHR a couple of weeks ago, some numptie getting all hot and bothered about the two bag scenario "Yes, but this one fits into this one, I'm only getting the smaller one out so I can get my laptop out, as your colleagues will soon be demanding of me..."
Gatwick: An airport to avoid in the future!
BAA have been fined (yes, and quite substantially) by the DfT for not meeting their security time targets. Alas the fines go to Gordon Brown (who doubtless is never stuck in a queue), not to you and me whose time is wasted.
To overcome this, they came up with the idea of "one bag only". Of course it was presented as being for security, not as a cash-saving exercise for BAA. Nor could they invest in more screeners, because being good business people there is no Return on Investment from that.
There is a management belief that "one bag only" will be their financial salvation.
The pre-screeners (known to some as the "yellow jackets", to others as the "gate lice") are obtained from an agency source. You will all have noticed their only qualification is that they were rejected by McDonalds to be burger flippers. They work to a fixed format with no discretion because that is all they are good for. As with much of aviation security, with a lot of money sloshing around for no good purpose there are always business services which suddenly materialise to help you spend said money.
In a sane world British Airways would be having BAA's guts for garters in the media at every opportunity for screwing up their hub operations. Unfortunately now BA have completely retreated to the BAA hubs at London it is BAA who can call the tune. Do they have to give ALL the gates at T5 to BA ? Only if BA are nice to BAA and their management. Do BA want to have any increase in gate numbers at all ? Only if BA are nice to BAA and their management.
To overcome this, they came up with the idea of "one bag only". Of course it was presented as being for security, not as a cash-saving exercise for BAA. Nor could they invest in more screeners, because being good business people there is no Return on Investment from that.
There is a management belief that "one bag only" will be their financial salvation.
The pre-screeners (known to some as the "yellow jackets", to others as the "gate lice") are obtained from an agency source. You will all have noticed their only qualification is that they were rejected by McDonalds to be burger flippers. They work to a fixed format with no discretion because that is all they are good for. As with much of aviation security, with a lot of money sloshing around for no good purpose there are always business services which suddenly materialise to help you spend said money.
In a sane world British Airways would be having BAA's guts for garters in the media at every opportunity for screwing up their hub operations. Unfortunately now BA have completely retreated to the BAA hubs at London it is BAA who can call the tune. Do they have to give ALL the gates at T5 to BA ? Only if BA are nice to BAA and their management. Do BA want to have any increase in gate numbers at all ? Only if BA are nice to BAA and their management.
The stupid thing is that it is actually in BAAs interest to get people through security as quickly as possible.
I used to turn up 2 hours before each flight, check in, make my way through security and then sit down to a spot of breakfast/coffee/shopping etc while I waited for my flight.
Now I turn up 2 hours before each flight, check in, stand in a queue for a minimum of 1 hour (never had it shorted than this in a BAA airport - and once managed a pretty amazing 2 hours - luckily the flight was delayed). Once through I have no time for a meal or shopping as I have to go straight to my gate and board.
If everyone else has this experience they must be losing a fortune through not having enough staff to open up all of the aisles.
I used to turn up 2 hours before each flight, check in, make my way through security and then sit down to a spot of breakfast/coffee/shopping etc while I waited for my flight.
Now I turn up 2 hours before each flight, check in, stand in a queue for a minimum of 1 hour (never had it shorted than this in a BAA airport - and once managed a pretty amazing 2 hours - luckily the flight was delayed). Once through I have no time for a meal or shopping as I have to go straight to my gate and board.
If everyone else has this experience they must be losing a fortune through not having enough staff to open up all of the aisles.
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I'd agree with that. I like to be on time and have always aimed to be at the airport 2 hours before the flight to allow for road traffic etc. and then used the spare time for some retail therapy and a coffee.
I still allow 2 hours but now very rarely have any spare time for shopping and relaxing before the flight boards, other than just enough time to buy the stuff that security confiscate!
I still allow 2 hours but now very rarely have any spare time for shopping and relaxing before the flight boards, other than just enough time to buy the stuff that security confiscate!
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BAA need some competition
what the CAA/DFT should do is take one of the three London airports from BAA and give it to somebody else to run. Bet you'd see BAA suddenly wake up at the remaining two airports. I suspect they know they have a captive market so why bother to tweak all the knobs and buttons in the system when they could be sat down having a cup of tea metaphorically?
G
G
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groundbum
Bet you wouldn't!! I have said this before, so I shall be brief.
After such a change, the people that run the place would be the same as run it now. They would STILL have no incentive because the way in which Pax view and use the three airports is set. Whether choice is by route and destination, living close to the field, cost, who is paying or whatever - they are not going to change that. The only thing that can change the horrors of Heathrow is the govt demanding more and making financial penalties until they do. No UK govt will do that.
Besides, the problem will be solved by more people using continental airports for transfer and the numbers in Hounslow will start to reduce. Heathrow lost it's future a long time ago.
Bet you'd see BAA suddenly wake up at the remaining two airports.
After such a change, the people that run the place would be the same as run it now. They would STILL have no incentive because the way in which Pax view and use the three airports is set. Whether choice is by route and destination, living close to the field, cost, who is paying or whatever - they are not going to change that. The only thing that can change the horrors of Heathrow is the govt demanding more and making financial penalties until they do. No UK govt will do that.
Besides, the problem will be solved by more people using continental airports for transfer and the numbers in Hounslow will start to reduce. Heathrow lost it's future a long time ago.
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....smiling chap with his one bag and saying "I'm smiling because I've only got one bag". Actually mate, I'm very pi**ed off because I've only got one back and it is the numptie fellow passengers ahead of me who don't quite comprehend that 2 is more than 1, and so is 3, and 4...
In a sane world British Airways would be having BAA's guts for garters in the media at every opportunity for screwing up their hub operations.
Regards, SD..
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Gatwick North: yellow shirts
I'm glad it is not just me.
I flew out of LGW N last week, after trips to SFO and various European destinations (all through LHR) and carrying exactly the same two pieces of carry-on, a Hartmann rollbag and a Tumi briefcase, that had been allowed on all long and short haul flights for the past two years.
Fast-track entrance closed (although lane functioning) and all pax diverted through a funnel of yellow shirts handing out plastic bags for the liquids brigade. Do I have liquids? No. I have to measure your bag. Of course, it doesn't fit in the frame (by about 5 mm, thanks to the wheels). Told to go and check it in to which I object, at which point the yellow shirt summons a black shirt who threatens me with denied boarding for being obstructive. Instantly! No discussion allowed, no dissent allowed, but an instant escalation for absolutely no reason.
Take bag over to BA checkin, where the agent tells me the bag is perfectly ok for BA, but that many people complain that LGW staff are "anal retards" (her exact words!!!).
Cannot agree more. What a vile airport, staffed by nasty, authoritarian, stupid and chippy individuals.
Scenario got even worse when I finally did pass through "security", in a rather grim mood.
"Any liquids, mate?"
"No. ... And I am not your 'mate'".
Another immediate escalation ... "I find your attitude objectionable and personally insulting to me" (I guess this is the one bit of training they have absorbed). Wrong! I find YOUR attitude objectionable and insulting, but then I am only the poor old pax, not the jobsworth with petty authority to screw me around. Naturally, my bag went aside for a delayed, and very slow, additional check (with absolutely no reason, except bloody-mindedness, so good job there wasn't anything on the conveyor that actually merited additional manual checking).
The only good thing is that I didn't hit the 1 in 3 shoe lane (not like the time before when I had my shoes scanned because they went off and then did hit the 1 in 3 shoe lane and had to have them scanned again, 7 yards later, even though the muppet had just seen me put them through the first scanner).
Its LHR for me from now on. The numptie ratio at LGW is just too high. But seriously, a little consistency would be really appreciated.
I flew out of LGW N last week, after trips to SFO and various European destinations (all through LHR) and carrying exactly the same two pieces of carry-on, a Hartmann rollbag and a Tumi briefcase, that had been allowed on all long and short haul flights for the past two years.
Fast-track entrance closed (although lane functioning) and all pax diverted through a funnel of yellow shirts handing out plastic bags for the liquids brigade. Do I have liquids? No. I have to measure your bag. Of course, it doesn't fit in the frame (by about 5 mm, thanks to the wheels). Told to go and check it in to which I object, at which point the yellow shirt summons a black shirt who threatens me with denied boarding for being obstructive. Instantly! No discussion allowed, no dissent allowed, but an instant escalation for absolutely no reason.
Take bag over to BA checkin, where the agent tells me the bag is perfectly ok for BA, but that many people complain that LGW staff are "anal retards" (her exact words!!!).
Cannot agree more. What a vile airport, staffed by nasty, authoritarian, stupid and chippy individuals.
Scenario got even worse when I finally did pass through "security", in a rather grim mood.
"Any liquids, mate?"
"No. ... And I am not your 'mate'".
Another immediate escalation ... "I find your attitude objectionable and personally insulting to me" (I guess this is the one bit of training they have absorbed). Wrong! I find YOUR attitude objectionable and insulting, but then I am only the poor old pax, not the jobsworth with petty authority to screw me around. Naturally, my bag went aside for a delayed, and very slow, additional check (with absolutely no reason, except bloody-mindedness, so good job there wasn't anything on the conveyor that actually merited additional manual checking).
The only good thing is that I didn't hit the 1 in 3 shoe lane (not like the time before when I had my shoes scanned because they went off and then did hit the 1 in 3 shoe lane and had to have them scanned again, 7 yards later, even though the muppet had just seen me put them through the first scanner).
Its LHR for me from now on. The numptie ratio at LGW is just too high. But seriously, a little consistency would be really appreciated.
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If you think Gatwick is bad, and I agree, it is, try Luton, which is worse.
I was standing in the long and slow moving queue for immigration (UK/EU passports) with my son,aged 10, who desperately needed a toilet. The 'Non EU' line was empty .... and the immigration officer was twiddling his thumbs. So I asked the bonehead, terminally stupid, uneducated, thick as pig****, pig-ignorant (sorry pigs are smart), loutish oaf of a 'security' guard if we could sneak under the rope and go through that way. I was perfectly pleasant, and explained why, although it would have been obvious to anyone with even half a brain cell and one functioning eye (yes, I mean you, Gordon).
He looked at us as if we'd crawled out from under a stone, and just shook his head slowly, not even 'sorry, morenmejobswerffmate'. So I asked why, bad move, at which he drew himself up to his full 6' 6" to appear threatening and said : "No way."
I later found out, when making an official complaint, that these cretins do have the discretion to allow people through, but what is the point of allowing discretion to people who have an IQ of 12, and that's on a good day.
Rant over ....
I was standing in the long and slow moving queue for immigration (UK/EU passports) with my son,aged 10, who desperately needed a toilet. The 'Non EU' line was empty .... and the immigration officer was twiddling his thumbs. So I asked the bonehead, terminally stupid, uneducated, thick as pig****, pig-ignorant (sorry pigs are smart), loutish oaf of a 'security' guard if we could sneak under the rope and go through that way. I was perfectly pleasant, and explained why, although it would have been obvious to anyone with even half a brain cell and one functioning eye (yes, I mean you, Gordon).
He looked at us as if we'd crawled out from under a stone, and just shook his head slowly, not even 'sorry, morenmejobswerffmate'. So I asked why, bad move, at which he drew himself up to his full 6' 6" to appear threatening and said : "No way."
I later found out, when making an official complaint, that these cretins do have the discretion to allow people through, but what is the point of allowing discretion to people who have an IQ of 12, and that's on a good day.
Rant over ....
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It happens at Heathrow - T5 in this case. I received this email this morning from a friend who flew out earlier this week. I've removed any details which could identify anyone concerned. This was two middle aged professional couples travelling together - we're not talking about a group of hooligans.
We reached the boarding gates and I was pulled aside for a random search. The rest of our party automatically stood aside to wait for me and the security officer decided this was not necessary and tackled them with a barrage of words demanding that they move on - well xxxxxx definitely felt that she was rude and told her so and refused to move but to take her name - she became incensed and became more rude and abusive and pulled xxxxxx out and made him be searched! It was all very upsetting and finally once we all boarded the plane xxxxxx reported her to the BA staff who were definitely unhappy about this and immediately followed it up by going to find this woman and get her name. She was rude to them as well and so an investigation/report was set in motion. Rudeness and victimization is not on!
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If it’s any consolation, the staff channels at LGW are just as bad. I have never met such consistently anal ‘security’ staff anywhere else.
A couple of recent examples:
(1) Having queued for 10 minutes in the morning rush, Captain’s flight case is randomly searched. Security person finds a miniscule bottle of sterilising gel, which has been sat, forgotten, at the bottom of his case for weeks if not months. “This is liquid, it needs to be in a plastic bag.” Person then ambles off to find one while the entire crew waits. Captain decides it’s not worth the hassle and tells one of her colleagues not to bother as he hasn’t got time to wait. Instant response; “Well, if you’d had it in a plastic bag you wouldn’t have had to wait in the first place.” Result, one highly - and unnecessarily - p1ssed off captain who then needs calming down before we get to the aircraft. A CRM dream . . .
(2) My flight case is randomly searched. Security person attempts to open the front flap, which won’t as the lock is jammed. I am then asked to open it for him, at which point I explain I can’t because it’s jammed. My entire case is then emptied, right down the year old Mars Bars, every folder and piece of paper is leafed through, and the empty case is X-rayed again. My blood pressure rises by the second as security person tries to remember where everything went, and end up repacking my own case. Am finally declared safe to be put in control of a 400mph bus. Thank God they didn’t find the flight deck crash axe . . .
I’m afraid it’s peanuts and monkeys folks.
A couple of recent examples:
(1) Having queued for 10 minutes in the morning rush, Captain’s flight case is randomly searched. Security person finds a miniscule bottle of sterilising gel, which has been sat, forgotten, at the bottom of his case for weeks if not months. “This is liquid, it needs to be in a plastic bag.” Person then ambles off to find one while the entire crew waits. Captain decides it’s not worth the hassle and tells one of her colleagues not to bother as he hasn’t got time to wait. Instant response; “Well, if you’d had it in a plastic bag you wouldn’t have had to wait in the first place.” Result, one highly - and unnecessarily - p1ssed off captain who then needs calming down before we get to the aircraft. A CRM dream . . .
(2) My flight case is randomly searched. Security person attempts to open the front flap, which won’t as the lock is jammed. I am then asked to open it for him, at which point I explain I can’t because it’s jammed. My entire case is then emptied, right down the year old Mars Bars, every folder and piece of paper is leafed through, and the empty case is X-rayed again. My blood pressure rises by the second as security person tries to remember where everything went, and end up repacking my own case. Am finally declared safe to be put in control of a 400mph bus. Thank God they didn’t find the flight deck crash axe . . .
I’m afraid it’s peanuts and monkeys folks.
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Alternative to short-haul flying
Ignorant airport staff and lack of resource management (eg inadequate number of scanners in use for the passenger flow, etc) are two of the main reasons why I now use Eurostar and the other high speed trains to get to many Eurpean destinations. City centre station locations is one feature that airports obviously cannot match, but I've yet to meet any train service staff who are anywhere as bad as the majority of the airport staff. The train journeys are a real pleasure and for many destinations, more than match the overall travelling times achieved by flying.
Paxing All Over The World
It makes you realise the true govt policy all along. Make sure that the 'security' is awful that people stop going on the planes. It saves legislating about runways. It saves having to work out why it was such a disaster to sell off the airports in a large block to one company 20+ years ago. It saves having to do anything that requires foresight, management and grit.