Why Does BA Have An Attitude Problem?
ba has some of the finest and most loyal flight crews, cabin crews and maintenance in the business. Of that I am sure.
But I will NEVER fly with them whilst King and Marshall are still paid a single brass farthing by the company and its shareholders. The spectre of the Dirty Tricks era will continue to hang over ba whilst those 2 - and others - are still part of it.
And I darn well hope that someone in ba management does get to read this. You've lost around 30 flights to another airline since April from me alone.....
But I will NEVER fly with them whilst King and Marshall are still paid a single brass farthing by the company and its shareholders. The spectre of the Dirty Tricks era will continue to hang over ba whilst those 2 - and others - are still part of it.
And I darn well hope that someone in ba management does get to read this. You've lost around 30 flights to another airline since April from me alone.....
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[...But I will NEVER fly with them whilst King and Marshall are still paid a single brass farthing by the company and its shareholders
King's gone, now Marshall's announced news of his retirement. Presumably, you would view the Pension Fund as a separate entity to BA and it's shareholders?
I quite understand your views on Dirty Tricks - absolutely despicable - but it does make you wonder what other large corporations have done, and got away with, in the past!!!
'President for life' sounds like something more appropriate to the dictator of a banana republic......
'Dirty Tricks' was most certainly NOT a series of 'petty offences'. It reflected ba's corporate attitude and an urge for total dominance which would stop at nothing in trying to destroy Virgin Atlantic. Hence while King and Marshall have any executive status in the company, how can one have any confidence that the cancer of the 'Dirty Tricks' mentality has been fully removed?
Other than receiving a pension, the 'Dirty Tricks' practitioners should hold no status within ba nor enjoy any other benefits when they finally retire.
'Dirty Tricks' was most certainly NOT a series of 'petty offences'. It reflected ba's corporate attitude and an urge for total dominance which would stop at nothing in trying to destroy Virgin Atlantic. Hence while King and Marshall have any executive status in the company, how can one have any confidence that the cancer of the 'Dirty Tricks' mentality has been fully removed?
Other than receiving a pension, the 'Dirty Tricks' practitioners should hold no status within ba nor enjoy any other benefits when they finally retire.
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I have flown several times with BA, from trips across the pond 11 years ago to a shuttle to Glasgow. Always felt they were good - prefered the old food, but apparently the new-style sarnies and wraps are popular, so I have to accept that they cannot specially treat me. My girlfriend was on the last trip, to Prague, and she dislikes flying and has rarely done so but was very impressed with the flight and the staff.
On the other hand I have no complaints about any of the other airlines I have flown with either. I don't think it is that I am easy to please, I just cannot think of anything that has happened that the personnel could reasonably be expected to have handled better. The only exception was TAP not keeping my luggage with me or getting it to me in one piece quickly, but they had been good earlier in the day when I had missed the flight to balance that out.
I have flown a few non-UK airlines, and they were not bad but only Air New Zealand could reasonably argue a case for being better than BA by my experience.
On the other hand I have no complaints about any of the other airlines I have flown with either. I don't think it is that I am easy to please, I just cannot think of anything that has happened that the personnel could reasonably be expected to have handled better. The only exception was TAP not keeping my luggage with me or getting it to me in one piece quickly, but they had been good earlier in the day when I had missed the flight to balance that out.
I have flown a few non-UK airlines, and they were not bad but only Air New Zealand could reasonably argue a case for being better than BA by my experience.
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BA Comparisons...recent experience
BA - LON-MAD Apex return, good bucket shop pricing, £10 cheaper than everyone else including their One World partner Iberia, Iberia better seat pitch, real food (full meals...good too) not 'in a bag' junk, better attitude from staff...I fly IB or Air Europa
BA - LON-MOW Apex return much more expensive than Aeroflot, crap attitude from 767 crews who think they should night stop and therefore have the hump, fly Aeroflot better price better service real food, better deal...Aeroflot £180, BA £350.
BA are not in my opinion providing the service and tariff combination that the 'regular traveller' requires
All to Bealine for suggesting that his management do a few trips and sample what their customers think/want
BA - LON-MAD Apex return, good bucket shop pricing, £10 cheaper than everyone else including their One World partner Iberia, Iberia better seat pitch, real food (full meals...good too) not 'in a bag' junk, better attitude from staff...I fly IB or Air Europa
BA - LON-MOW Apex return much more expensive than Aeroflot, crap attitude from 767 crews who think they should night stop and therefore have the hump, fly Aeroflot better price better service real food, better deal...Aeroflot £180, BA £350.
BA are not in my opinion providing the service and tariff combination that the 'regular traveller' requires
All to Bealine for suggesting that his management do a few trips and sample what their customers think/want
Last edited by Boss Raptor; 23rd Nov 2003 at 20:43.
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Boss Raptor
I was under the impression IBE were supposed to have switched to PAX paying for meals in Economy as of the Winter Season - I read this in El Pais in September. Can you advise me whether this is true, my last flight in Spain was with BA(GB) from TFN back to LGW.
I also found Iberia crew aloof and in many cases rude, particularly on Domestic. I remember asking for a cup of coffee, when I got it was stone cold and I complained - the remark from the Stewardess - "You think this is a coffee shop !"
Can't say much for Air Europa, but I also found Spanair pretty awful too. Used to fly them to Malabo.......
However, I fully agree with your statement that BA are not providing what "Regular Travellers" require. I know if I ever sat next Mr E. on the plane he would know about it.
Anyway, have to go, it's been snowing for the last 10 hours and I'd better leave the office before I get stuck here.
Oiler
I was under the impression IBE were supposed to have switched to PAX paying for meals in Economy as of the Winter Season - I read this in El Pais in September. Can you advise me whether this is true, my last flight in Spain was with BA(GB) from TFN back to LGW.
I also found Iberia crew aloof and in many cases rude, particularly on Domestic. I remember asking for a cup of coffee, when I got it was stone cold and I complained - the remark from the Stewardess - "You think this is a coffee shop !"
Can't say much for Air Europa, but I also found Spanair pretty awful too. Used to fly them to Malabo.......
However, I fully agree with your statement that BA are not providing what "Regular Travellers" require. I know if I ever sat next Mr E. on the plane he would know about it.
Anyway, have to go, it's been snowing for the last 10 hours and I'd better leave the office before I get stuck here.
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I believe that IB were introducing reduced catering on domestic flights but understood this did not apply on the international services (but never saw an exact definition European, Longhaul etc.), however have not been on IB for some 6 months as mainly using Air Europa out of LGW, the MAD-BCN 'Shuttle' is pretty sparse.
Using IB as an example same as for SU, neither are perfect but in my opinion (stressed 'my') are overall a better picture for the regular traveller
On my own experience with friends and colleagues comments the likes of Emirates are so popular with 'regular travelers' (meaning everyone from weekend breakers, holiday travellers to businessmen who travel regularly but not necessarily in Business class) because they have that extra plus on the service/quality/product and people remember the flight as good...and so the likes of Emirates get repeat bookings across a wide demographic scope of passengers.
It's not all about pricing and for the sake of a £30-50 saving on European services people will not go LCC and do choose to pay that extra to travel on a good Full Service carrier - as Bealine states the problem appears to be those carriers who sit in the middle, by keep their prices up at a premium above LCC (however small) and reducing the level/standard/quality of service/product to that of an LCC, as BA have done on European routes.
Just to bring this into perspective my annual air travel expenditure is approx. £18k split between long haul and european flights, across my colleagues and our staff transport etc. we as a group/company spend approx. £150k per year. Small fry corporate account it may well be but all us 'Small Fry' add up to a significant figure which can any operator afford to lose
Once you have upset and/or driven a customer to seek alternative carriers it's very very difficult to get them back, regardless of how many improvements you can promise them you've made...once the damage is done it lasts a long long time and is very difficult to undo
Using IB as an example same as for SU, neither are perfect but in my opinion (stressed 'my') are overall a better picture for the regular traveller
On my own experience with friends and colleagues comments the likes of Emirates are so popular with 'regular travelers' (meaning everyone from weekend breakers, holiday travellers to businessmen who travel regularly but not necessarily in Business class) because they have that extra plus on the service/quality/product and people remember the flight as good...and so the likes of Emirates get repeat bookings across a wide demographic scope of passengers.
It's not all about pricing and for the sake of a £30-50 saving on European services people will not go LCC and do choose to pay that extra to travel on a good Full Service carrier - as Bealine states the problem appears to be those carriers who sit in the middle, by keep their prices up at a premium above LCC (however small) and reducing the level/standard/quality of service/product to that of an LCC, as BA have done on European routes.
Just to bring this into perspective my annual air travel expenditure is approx. £18k split between long haul and european flights, across my colleagues and our staff transport etc. we as a group/company spend approx. £150k per year. Small fry corporate account it may well be but all us 'Small Fry' add up to a significant figure which can any operator afford to lose
Once you have upset and/or driven a customer to seek alternative carriers it's very very difficult to get them back, regardless of how many improvements you can promise them you've made...once the damage is done it lasts a long long time and is very difficult to undo
Last edited by Boss Raptor; 23rd Nov 2003 at 22:29.
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BA will continue to address many of the issues stated. One problem we have had like many others relates to lack of fiscal resources to continually provide customer service and product improvment training.
Long term though the going is getting tougher particularly when Emirates et al introduce the A380 with a complete upper deck of 150 Club pax at prices that I doubt others can match, especially if you are operating 744/77.
It would not suprise me or many others of us at BA to see us place an order for the A380 in the near future if fiscal improvment occurs. It may well turn out that you cannot operate without the A380.
Long term though the going is getting tougher particularly when Emirates et al introduce the A380 with a complete upper deck of 150 Club pax at prices that I doubt others can match, especially if you are operating 744/77.
It would not suprise me or many others of us at BA to see us place an order for the A380 in the near future if fiscal improvment occurs. It may well turn out that you cannot operate without the A380.
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It would not suprise me or many others of us at BA to see us place an order for the A380 in the near future if fiscal improvment occurs. It may well turn out that you cannot operate without the A380.
I sincerely hope BA management will address these issues before it's too late!!! I suspect, HZ123 that you're in BA management somewhere - if so, good on you for taking these issues back with you!
....Shame you view "Dirty Tricks" as petty - There are quite a number of ex-Dan-Air chappies and chappesses, ex-Laker guys and gals, ex-BCal lads and lassies (all of whom were done to death by BA!) who would vehemently disagree that "Dirty Tricks" was a minor matter!!!
The Plucky Virgin was the one who tackled the mighty BA dinosaur and lived to tell the tale!
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For more than a dozen years I've been travelling business class on a variety of carriers long-haul between UK and the Carribbean/Latin America, either direct or via the US - I've tried 'em all, doing about 10 or 12 round trips a year. My criteria for selection is:
1. Reliability of service and connections.
2. Decent Carry-On Baggage allowance.
3. Type of Aircraft / Seat.
4. Cabin Service.
5. Frequent Flyer Programme.
I travel BA more than all the rest put together - stunning reliability in spacious, comfortable cabins with professional service from people who put up with far more tantrums from some passengers than I'd ever put up with.
Well done BA - does exactly what it sez on the tin...
1. Reliability of service and connections.
2. Decent Carry-On Baggage allowance.
3. Type of Aircraft / Seat.
4. Cabin Service.
5. Frequent Flyer Programme.
I travel BA more than all the rest put together - stunning reliability in spacious, comfortable cabins with professional service from people who put up with far more tantrums from some passengers than I'd ever put up with.
Well done BA - does exactly what it sez on the tin...
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2 words - L O R D K I N G
Until the shackles are completely removed from his totalitarian days, the spectre of the man shalt haunt thee!
Some fantastic people with the org however, have many freinds with whom i am still in regular contact.
Beleive there was a previous post not so long ago that went into the specifics.
Regards
Until the shackles are completely removed from his totalitarian days, the spectre of the man shalt haunt thee!
Some fantastic people with the org however, have many freinds with whom i am still in regular contact.
Beleive there was a previous post not so long ago that went into the specifics.
Regards
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For what it's worth, I have found BA staff a mixed bunch but on the whole, I can only praise them. I recently had a personal problem when I arrived in JFK from LHR (I was advised that my business partner was in a coma and dying). I explained the circumstances to BA staff and was immediately given a seat on the 6pm flight BA212 to LHR. The staff at JFK couldn’t have been more understanding and compassionate.
I was escorted to the lounge where Kevin? the manager went beyond the call of duty to help me. He suggested that I take a shower to freshen up and arranged for me to dine pre-flight offered drinks and fussed over. I was then again escorted to the A/C and once on board the seat in Club world beside me was 'blocked' so that I would not be disturbed. The crew all were aware of my problem and all showed maximum respect and sensitivity. Back in LHR the agent suggested that I visit the arrivals lounge to shower and have my clothes pressed and grab some breakfast prior facing the M4 with my driver.
Sadly, my partner died but maximum respect to those at BA that helped and showed why they still lead the field in seamless customer care. I won't forget!
I was escorted to the lounge where Kevin? the manager went beyond the call of duty to help me. He suggested that I take a shower to freshen up and arranged for me to dine pre-flight offered drinks and fussed over. I was then again escorted to the A/C and once on board the seat in Club world beside me was 'blocked' so that I would not be disturbed. The crew all were aware of my problem and all showed maximum respect and sensitivity. Back in LHR the agent suggested that I visit the arrivals lounge to shower and have my clothes pressed and grab some breakfast prior facing the M4 with my driver.
Sadly, my partner died but maximum respect to those at BA that helped and showed why they still lead the field in seamless customer care. I won't forget!
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To Boss Raptor
Quote : About 10 years ago I could have counted on 2 hands all those airlines in the UK that people enjoyed working for and said were a good friendly company, now I can count none...
So which none UK airline are you a director for, or have you contributed personally to the above ?
Very interested in your reply............
Quote : About 10 years ago I could have counted on 2 hands all those airlines in the UK that people enjoyed working for and said were a good friendly company, now I can count none...
So which none UK airline are you a director for, or have you contributed personally to the above ?
Very interested in your reply............
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10 years ago I was like many others a staff 'mushroom' (not BA) caught up in the new era of commercialism and executive management that did/does not appear to care for staff quality of work or quality of life, customer service and loyalty of both staff and customer...and thoroughly hated it.
I would like to think I learn't valuable lessons from that and (like to think) I act accordingly now. Although not a magical panacea for every commercial environment/business plan and not the choice of some boards/shareholders. This era (problems) and these ideals are not and never have been just limited to the airline industry...as others have said.
I would like to think I learn't valuable lessons from that and (like to think) I act accordingly now. Although not a magical panacea for every commercial environment/business plan and not the choice of some boards/shareholders. This era (problems) and these ideals are not and never have been just limited to the airline industry...as others have said.
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Accused
You know how it is as you grow up - somehow BA is seen as the airline to fly with, don't want to trust those foreigners with your life.
Had a few trips to the states and Oz by the time I was 22 - all with BA. Then it canme to the meal.
Chewing through the usual lump of chicken I almost chocked on a cube of glass, about a cetimetre square, that had somewhow got into the meal. Now I'm aware BA are not directly preparing the food but I do expect them to take responsibility for what they serve up. On calling an attendant over I was told it was not possible that this could have been in my food - effectively I was being accused of planting it.
This was a real shock to the system and since then (thirteen years ago) I have never flown with them again. During that time my job has required monthly travel - unfortunately every time I specify no BA.
Then to cap it all they killed Concorde.
Contrast that with Lufthansa. Delayed flight out of LHR resulted in a missed connection at Frankfurt on to Tokyo. Flown striaght down to Paris and put on the next AF flight. On return upgraded to Business without even asking. They get repeat business.
Had a few trips to the states and Oz by the time I was 22 - all with BA. Then it canme to the meal.
Chewing through the usual lump of chicken I almost chocked on a cube of glass, about a cetimetre square, that had somewhow got into the meal. Now I'm aware BA are not directly preparing the food but I do expect them to take responsibility for what they serve up. On calling an attendant over I was told it was not possible that this could have been in my food - effectively I was being accused of planting it.
This was a real shock to the system and since then (thirteen years ago) I have never flown with them again. During that time my job has required monthly travel - unfortunately every time I specify no BA.
Then to cap it all they killed Concorde.
Contrast that with Lufthansa. Delayed flight out of LHR resulted in a missed connection at Frankfurt on to Tokyo. Flown striaght down to Paris and put on the next AF flight. On return upgraded to Business without even asking. They get repeat business.
