Get a CPL and ??? Do you expect it?
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Get a CPL and ??? Do you expect it?
Now I may be from the ole school where you have to want to work etc...
It seems that todays breed just expects it to happen (yes sorry for those who don't).
For instance I put a post on re a bombing job and 2 emails recieved from it? What were you scared off by the fact that you would have to work hard? Or that you would have to take a personal stance to get the conditions you want? Well done to the 2 who emailed & good luck.
I tried to find someone for a HARD WORKING cattle station job and again to no joy???
Another for us this time someone for Timber Creek... Hard again, and lets face it its a place with a pub, great fishing and a Contiki bus once a week.
True two of the above were private ops but bl**dy good chances to get started.
It appears to me that the generation of today does not want to work? Unfortunatley for you it takes hard work to succeed.
The funny thing is it is never hard to find a pilot to base in Darwin???
It seems that todays breed just expects it to happen (yes sorry for those who don't).
For instance I put a post on re a bombing job and 2 emails recieved from it? What were you scared off by the fact that you would have to work hard? Or that you would have to take a personal stance to get the conditions you want? Well done to the 2 who emailed & good luck.
I tried to find someone for a HARD WORKING cattle station job and again to no joy???
Another for us this time someone for Timber Creek... Hard again, and lets face it its a place with a pub, great fishing and a Contiki bus once a week.
True two of the above were private ops but bl**dy good chances to get started.
It appears to me that the generation of today does not want to work? Unfortunatley for you it takes hard work to succeed.
The funny thing is it is never hard to find a pilot to base in Darwin???
HA,
If the bombing jobs are private, then negotiation of conditions would be acceptable.
If it's a commercial op, no-one should have to "take a personal stance to get the conditions " they want, that's what the award scheme is for. Pound of flesh for a pound of flesh.
If the bombing jobs are private, then negotiation of conditions would be acceptable.
If it's a commercial op, no-one should have to "take a personal stance to get the conditions " they want, that's what the award scheme is for. Pound of flesh for a pound of flesh.
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HA - back when I started out I would have flooded your email for both of those. Been there done that and no need to go back to the private ops world.
It does seem that very few want to do the hard yards. I've had to twist some arms in my time to help people out.
As I posted a while ago - met a bloke with 200 or so hrs (wanted a job with us). He told me how he could have had a job on a station "but hey it was only 5 hrs a week..and they work you really hard when your not flying".
My thoughts? "Are you kidding bloke - you got 200 hrs - take what you can get and you might be surprised what is on offer when you proove yourself".
I even thought about doing a year as a station hand to improve my chances at getting a job on a STATION. Luckily I got the job before that... still I ended up doing a lot of ringing in between flying.
Hope the airlines can pick those that really want it.
It does seem that very few want to do the hard yards. I've had to twist some arms in my time to help people out.
As I posted a while ago - met a bloke with 200 or so hrs (wanted a job with us). He told me how he could have had a job on a station "but hey it was only 5 hrs a week..and they work you really hard when your not flying".
My thoughts? "Are you kidding bloke - you got 200 hrs - take what you can get and you might be surprised what is on offer when you proove yourself".
I even thought about doing a year as a station hand to improve my chances at getting a job on a STATION. Luckily I got the job before that... still I ended up doing a lot of ringing in between flying.
Hope the airlines can pick those that really want it.
I'll take anything I can get in a second! However, in my experience most people want more than the 150-200 hours a fresh CPL has. Can't afford to pay for hours myself any more. If anything comes your way I'll definitely be KEEN!
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easy tiger...
I think there might be a couple of things here to consider HA.
As mince has displayed, nearly all pilots with a fresh CPL (150TT) or up to 200TT would jump at either of those jobs.
lets peruse your examples.
Paradropper :
cant find exact post but know that there was 350TT minimum.
Station Pilot :
Your advertisement should reveal to you your lack of reply from fresh CPL holders . I am not suggesting either job is below a pilot with 350 or 400TT. But to sell either position as
you are living with the fairies.
Don't sh!tcan fresh CPL holders as being lazy and a "generation of people who don't want to work" because they don't reply to your adverts that they don't qualify for. I don't know about mince, but it took me 5 years of crap work to aquire my 200TT. That $41,000 I worked and saved for can't even get me a paradropping or station job for you, or anyone else it would seem. There are plenty more 150 - 200TT pilots out there that have walked the same road and can't get jobs.
It's good how you get on here and start popping off that you get no reply. That is because every newbie with 150 or 200TT didn't see the need to have thier reply filed in the "recycling department."
Most pilots with 350 or 400TT have got thier start, they probably don't have any desire to leave a company that they may progress through.
Run a position with 150TT or 200TT minimum and I am sure your email would be bombarded with resume's, including mine. You never know, you may find a diamond in the rough.
Last time I checked the regulations, pilots get thier start after doing a 150 hour CPL, not 400 hour CPL.
rant over.
As mince has displayed, nearly all pilots with a fresh CPL (150TT) or up to 200TT would jump at either of those jobs.
lets peruse your examples.
Paradropper :
cant find exact post but know that there was 350TT minimum.
Station Pilot :
Needed : CPL, 400 hours min, GOOD ATTITUDE.
If you do not meet the above requirements please do not send a resume or it will be filed in the recycling department.
If you do not meet the above requirements please do not send a resume or it will be filed in the recycling department.
private ops but bl**dy good chances to get started.
Don't sh!tcan fresh CPL holders as being lazy and a "generation of people who don't want to work" because they don't reply to your adverts that they don't qualify for. I don't know about mince, but it took me 5 years of crap work to aquire my 200TT. That $41,000 I worked and saved for can't even get me a paradropping or station job for you, or anyone else it would seem. There are plenty more 150 - 200TT pilots out there that have walked the same road and can't get jobs.
It's good how you get on here and start popping off that you get no reply. That is because every newbie with 150 or 200TT didn't see the need to have thier reply filed in the "recycling department."
Most pilots with 350 or 400TT have got thier start, they probably don't have any desire to leave a company that they may progress through.
Run a position with 150TT or 200TT minimum and I am sure your email would be bombarded with resume's, including mine. You never know, you may find a diamond in the rough.
Last time I checked the regulations, pilots get thier start after doing a 150 hour CPL, not 400 hour CPL.
rant over.
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Hard Yards
Call me old school to but I consider it paramount to do the hard yards. I spoke with a mate last night who do that just that and made it into Cathay.
As for the bare CPL having 200TT and the operator requiring 350TT, why not just send you resume in and why not just jump on the phone and see what your chances are. If you don't ask you don't get and it takes no time at all in the scheme of things.
I have a bare CPL and MECIR and rest assured I will be flooding the market with resume and phone calls when the time comes. If in the meantime anyway has any jobs going drop me a line
Ang.
As for the bare CPL having 200TT and the operator requiring 350TT, why not just send you resume in and why not just jump on the phone and see what your chances are. If you don't ask you don't get and it takes no time at all in the scheme of things.
I have a bare CPL and MECIR and rest assured I will be flooding the market with resume and phone calls when the time comes. If in the meantime anyway has any jobs going drop me a line
Ang.
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Radar - Part of what you are saying is true and I understand where you are coming from as I have been there.
However - Lets say the majority of these 3-400 are actually employed as you say. They are not going to apply right? Then there are the guys with 3-400 with no job who are trying for something a little better than the private ops. They won't apply either. That leaves the operator with less options. Of the ones that do apply not all will have the guts to ring up and go and see the bloke. Of those some will take one look at the joint and say "you ARE joking aren't you". What happens here is that the employer is left with few to choose from. He'll be umming and aring that he really likes none of them.. then you turn up on the scene.. - keen as bloody mustard - like a raging bull (right..?). Sure you don't have the hours but consider this:
For the station manager - its now been two weeks since he has checked those bores/fences and if those cattle die he is going to lose the country boys "dream job".
For the parachute man - he is seeing hotbabe backpakers (I threw that in to add to the story) turn up and leave empty handed. I.e money that could have and should have been his-walking out the door.
The moral of the story is - I've seen people change minimums when the pressure was on. I also happen to know that there aren't that many 350 hr guys out there. Give it a go and you never know you might be their last option.
Good luck with it mate.
However - Lets say the majority of these 3-400 are actually employed as you say. They are not going to apply right? Then there are the guys with 3-400 with no job who are trying for something a little better than the private ops. They won't apply either. That leaves the operator with less options. Of the ones that do apply not all will have the guts to ring up and go and see the bloke. Of those some will take one look at the joint and say "you ARE joking aren't you". What happens here is that the employer is left with few to choose from. He'll be umming and aring that he really likes none of them.. then you turn up on the scene.. - keen as bloody mustard - like a raging bull (right..?). Sure you don't have the hours but consider this:
For the station manager - its now been two weeks since he has checked those bores/fences and if those cattle die he is going to lose the country boys "dream job".
For the parachute man - he is seeing hotbabe backpakers (I threw that in to add to the story) turn up and leave empty handed. I.e money that could have and should have been his-walking out the door.
The moral of the story is - I've seen people change minimums when the pressure was on. I also happen to know that there aren't that many 350 hr guys out there. Give it a go and you never know you might be their last option.
Good luck with it mate.
I like a laugh!
bwahh ha haha ha HA!
Shat myself with hysterics when I saw this post! An employer that pays the usual poor wages and crap conditions complaining that there are not hundreds of potential pilots to pick from. Cry me a river Johnny!
There is a God after all!
Shat myself with hysterics when I saw this post! An employer that pays the usual poor wages and crap conditions complaining that there are not hundreds of potential pilots to pick from. Cry me a river Johnny!
There is a God after all!
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Slice... not quiet correct, yep go shake that palm tree and watch the pilots fall out.
What I am refering to is a very broad generalisation to what I think of the youth of today.
The pvt ops jobs that I have tried to get people for in the past have actually been very well paying jobs (not the para) but required VERY VERY VERY hard work, i.e. 8 hours PVT flying followed by up at sunup for a day in the yards till sundown, then maybe up at sunup for another 8 hours flying - HARD WORK. Lets face it a station is great, fed 3 meals a day, no where to go, yep you actually save money.
How do I get from 200 hours to 300 hours - well if you can't figure that one out then... i'm not gunna spoon feed. But why not do what alot do and that is work and save $$$ get a group together and go of on a journey to where you think you may want to end up.
Radar - you do make valid points although you didn't email to the last request which didn't have any minimums written. Don't take me wrong I am not having a go at you.
Now on the general job scene there is no excuse not to be able to find employment whilst searching for that job, there is ALWAYS work around somewhere.
Yes it is an industry where you do have to put up with ***** but don't forget we all put up with the same ***** no matter what side of the fence you are on. Remember you are talking to someone that not that long ago was where you are. No Troubles hit the nail on the head though saying that your patience does run thin.
What I am refering to is a very broad generalisation to what I think of the youth of today.
The pvt ops jobs that I have tried to get people for in the past have actually been very well paying jobs (not the para) but required VERY VERY VERY hard work, i.e. 8 hours PVT flying followed by up at sunup for a day in the yards till sundown, then maybe up at sunup for another 8 hours flying - HARD WORK. Lets face it a station is great, fed 3 meals a day, no where to go, yep you actually save money.
How do I get from 200 hours to 300 hours - well if you can't figure that one out then... i'm not gunna spoon feed. But why not do what alot do and that is work and save $$$ get a group together and go of on a journey to where you think you may want to end up.
Radar - you do make valid points although you didn't email to the last request which didn't have any minimums written. Don't take me wrong I am not having a go at you.
Now on the general job scene there is no excuse not to be able to find employment whilst searching for that job, there is ALWAYS work around somewhere.
Yes it is an industry where you do have to put up with ***** but don't forget we all put up with the same ***** no matter what side of the fence you are on. Remember you are talking to someone that not that long ago was where you are. No Troubles hit the nail on the head though saying that your patience does run thin.
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I've been away from this forum for a couple of weeks, just catching up now, suffice to say i don't recall these advertisements.
I'd jump at a chance to fly, while i don't totally agree with the work for nothin aspect of private ops, i'd do the meatbombing to build hours
But heres the thing, i would still need a roof over my head and food on my table, and thats why i'm working my arse off in another job saving every penny i can. It's so in a couple of months i can afford to get in a car (or plane) and go wherever i need to go.
I had a CPL a few months ago. I have less than 200 hours. Would i work a station, getting 5 hours flying a week? Certainly would. Would i put my time (which i don't have much of working a full time job, in addition to a 2nd job which i'm finishing in a few days) when the info about that job states that the minimum is double the hours i have and that to send a resume in would result in it being disposed of? Nope, i don't mind putting in effort for work, but there are 24 hours in a day.
When the time comes that i have enough in the bank to live off while i pay my dues, i will be hitting the road and open to any honest work.
HA, you suggest working, saving and then hitting the road. I'm not sure when that last opertunity you posted about was on here but if in the last couple of weeks i missed it. I guess this kind of goes to show that what your saying isn't going to waste, some youngsters like myself are receptive to the many varying opinions of people with more exposure to the aviation world.
I do wish those who get the jobs you mention the best of luck. While it is competitive i still don't wish anyone anything bad in order to take opertunites for myself.
Thts my spiel...
I'd jump at a chance to fly, while i don't totally agree with the work for nothin aspect of private ops, i'd do the meatbombing to build hours
But heres the thing, i would still need a roof over my head and food on my table, and thats why i'm working my arse off in another job saving every penny i can. It's so in a couple of months i can afford to get in a car (or plane) and go wherever i need to go.
I had a CPL a few months ago. I have less than 200 hours. Would i work a station, getting 5 hours flying a week? Certainly would. Would i put my time (which i don't have much of working a full time job, in addition to a 2nd job which i'm finishing in a few days) when the info about that job states that the minimum is double the hours i have and that to send a resume in would result in it being disposed of? Nope, i don't mind putting in effort for work, but there are 24 hours in a day.
When the time comes that i have enough in the bank to live off while i pay my dues, i will be hitting the road and open to any honest work.
HA, you suggest working, saving and then hitting the road. I'm not sure when that last opertunity you posted about was on here but if in the last couple of weeks i missed it. I guess this kind of goes to show that what your saying isn't going to waste, some youngsters like myself are receptive to the many varying opinions of people with more exposure to the aviation world.
I do wish those who get the jobs you mention the best of luck. While it is competitive i still don't wish anyone anything bad in order to take opertunites for myself.
Thts my spiel...
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Part 121B 'New Charter Rules'
If the new Part 121B rules pass without change - then the 150 - 200 hour CPL will not be enough to get a start; Legally!.
Under the proposed Part 121B (Air Transport under 5700kg);
Single-Engine Day VFR charter will require a minimum of 100 hours PIC (as well as the current 5 hours on class/type).
With most CPL newbies entering the big wide world with 70 hours PIC & 80-100 hours dual - The private op's such as meat Bombing and Station work will suddenly become quite valuable & sort after.
The guys/girls in the box seat will be the ones who completed a 'non-approved course' i.e. have held a PPL for some time and upgraded to a CPL.
Under the proposed Part 121B (Air Transport under 5700kg);
Single-Engine Day VFR charter will require a minimum of 100 hours PIC (as well as the current 5 hours on class/type).
With most CPL newbies entering the big wide world with 70 hours PIC & 80-100 hours dual - The private op's such as meat Bombing and Station work will suddenly become quite valuable & sort after.
The guys/girls in the box seat will be the ones who completed a 'non-approved course' i.e. have held a PPL for some time and upgraded to a CPL.
Last edited by Rich-Fine-Green; 22nd Jan 2003 at 19:29.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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The guys/girls in the box seat will be the ones who completed a 'non-approved course' i.e. have held a PPL for some time and upgraded to a CPL.
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Mr Hat (Mr Garrison's pal I presume?):
At first glance, it does look like it will make it somewhat harder for new pilots to get a start with a charter - sorry, Air Transport Part 121B company.
On top of that, the operators may be slugged with Class A maintenance for their C182 & extra Check & Training costs etc (most operators will have to outsource to a Part 142 C & T company for their checks!).
As for an implementation date.....I have heard anything from end 2003 to late 2004.
I suggest looking at:
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/newrules
If you download the lot, it is several MBs & many hundreds of pages reading - have fun!.
My back-up career as a town drunk is looking more and more attractive.
At first glance, it does look like it will make it somewhat harder for new pilots to get a start with a charter - sorry, Air Transport Part 121B company.
On top of that, the operators may be slugged with Class A maintenance for their C182 & extra Check & Training costs etc (most operators will have to outsource to a Part 142 C & T company for their checks!).
As for an implementation date.....I have heard anything from end 2003 to late 2004.
I suggest looking at:
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/newrules
If you download the lot, it is several MBs & many hundreds of pages reading - have fun!.
My back-up career as a town drunk is looking more and more attractive.
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RFG. Mr Garrison and I aren't talking at the moment... he's all stressed about starting back at school with Cartman and the gang.....
What is the go from the multi engine perspective? How many hours will be required for that sort of thing.
I haven't looked into it too much (can you tell?) but if this stuff comes in will employees working for a company suddenly not have the legal requirements to work anymore?
Are CASA asking for trouble or what...?
I hope they take their time so I can get some time up.....sick of hanging around Mr Garrison.
What is the go from the multi engine perspective? How many hours will be required for that sort of thing.
I haven't looked into it too much (can you tell?) but if this stuff comes in will employees working for a company suddenly not have the legal requirements to work anymore?
Are CASA asking for trouble or what...?
I hope they take their time so I can get some time up.....sick of hanging around Mr Garrison.
Timber Creek
Cannot find anyone for there?
God almighty, make me an offer. I would almost consider moving back there. The best flying in the world.
Period.
God almighty, make me an offer. I would almost consider moving back there. The best flying in the world.
Period.
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Mr H;
Under the proposed new 121B rules:
A Multi Engine Pilot of anything smaller than a PA31 or 402 will require:
500 hrs experiance of which no less than 150 hrs as PIC under IFR which includes 40 hrs multi-engine. Plus a valid I/R plus, if operating at night, 50 hrs as a pilot at night.
Apart from a very patient company conducting ICUS for a prospective employee - where can a young pilot looking to move onto M/E get the above 150 hours real IFR of which 40 is multi engine?.
This might create a new USA type industry where large numbers of pilots pay to work ICUS.
Also, changes in store for ATPL as well. Under the new Part 61, ATPL candidates will have to complete a flying course in a muti-crew environment at a training school followed by a multi-crew flight test.
Changes to IFR rating: No more renewals, just recency every 90 days plus a flight review every two years. Initial issue must have three approaches (no mandatory NDB?).
Changes to Instructor Rating:
PRIVATE PILOTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO HOLD A BASIC INSTRUCTOR RATING.
No more Grade 1, 2 or 3, just authorisations for specific training. Example, if a really experianced Multi-engine pilot wants to just conduct m/e training then all he/she has to do is complete a basic course plus a 10 hour m/e IRC.
No more IR renewals, just attendance to an educational seminar once every two years or have a flight review.
All Instructors must aquire a Cert. 4 in training/education.
Changes to Night VFR:
Theory Test will be required.
At least 5 hours in the circuit required of wich 2 are solo hours under supervision.
Under the proposed new 121B rules:
A Multi Engine Pilot of anything smaller than a PA31 or 402 will require:
500 hrs experiance of which no less than 150 hrs as PIC under IFR which includes 40 hrs multi-engine. Plus a valid I/R plus, if operating at night, 50 hrs as a pilot at night.
Apart from a very patient company conducting ICUS for a prospective employee - where can a young pilot looking to move onto M/E get the above 150 hours real IFR of which 40 is multi engine?.
This might create a new USA type industry where large numbers of pilots pay to work ICUS.
Also, changes in store for ATPL as well. Under the new Part 61, ATPL candidates will have to complete a flying course in a muti-crew environment at a training school followed by a multi-crew flight test.
Changes to IFR rating: No more renewals, just recency every 90 days plus a flight review every two years. Initial issue must have three approaches (no mandatory NDB?).
Changes to Instructor Rating:
PRIVATE PILOTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO HOLD A BASIC INSTRUCTOR RATING.
No more Grade 1, 2 or 3, just authorisations for specific training. Example, if a really experianced Multi-engine pilot wants to just conduct m/e training then all he/she has to do is complete a basic course plus a 10 hour m/e IRC.
No more IR renewals, just attendance to an educational seminar once every two years or have a flight review.
All Instructors must aquire a Cert. 4 in training/education.
Changes to Night VFR:
Theory Test will be required.
At least 5 hours in the circuit required of wich 2 are solo hours under supervision.
Last edited by Rich-Fine-Green; 23rd Jan 2003 at 14:41.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
It looks scarily like a mish mash of UK (old) and JAR rules. Stop it immediately.