View Poll Results: Who would jon Cathay Pacific regardless of the present IFALPA Recruitment Ban
Yes
324
62.67%
NO
149
28.82%
NOT SURE
44
8.51%
Voters: 517. This poll is closed
Who Wants to join CATHAY!!!!!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hong Kong
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Ajax, a cruel but honest post. If I were you I would certainly update my cv. This 'dispute' has to come to a head soon. Management need to do nothing at all so the AOA have to take a step, very carefully I hope. When the dispute is over the rush for jobs will be enormous. Looks like, sadly, there are going to be plenty of desperate septics needing to pay mortgages and other bills pretty soon. The AOA is just about marginalised now. Their courses of action are severely hindered by the knowledge that about 650-1000 of the aircrew at the company will not follow them to oblivion. Be a little more sympathetic to the 49ers, loyal and true pilots martyred by union ineptitude. There but for etc.
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Hey guys a good post so far, not too much personal s@#t.
Anyway, i would like to add on my previous posts.
One thing up here is that yes the recruitment ban doesnt get much support as like with me alot of ex G.A guys here know how you must feel about wanting the job here. Some of us didnt even know who IFALPA were. We did think it hypocritical to expect those who need the job to do the work for us especially when we had limited industrial action last year and alot of the Captains hardly raised a finger to help, but that was the effect of intimidation from the company. We also dont get the chance to knock back upgrades, we just get a letter in our mailbox that tells us when and what. I would guess that if you walked into the office to say no thanks it would be like handing in your resignation. As i have said before, industrial action up here is very difficult, the union have seeked advice from all over on methods, some are good and some arent(the ban), but big picture stuff is that we have to go along with it otherwise this company would roll us over and the little niceties that we have that make Hong Kong worth our while would be slowly degraded, and believe me they would do it!!!
So its not perfect.
My concern is that there are enuff hard liners, hence my reasons for not posting on CPRUNE these days, that would make life pretty uncomfortable for the new joiners and you need to be aware of this. The other thing is if we have a bit of a win this year with whatever we have planned, maybe even a few court cases going our way, believe me the fence sitters will jump well and truly back the unions way, and then the support for the union will get even stronger because that is what alot of people are waiting for, a few wins.
Good luck with your decisions anyway, remember there are enuff ex GA guys/girls here to still have you over for a BBQ but that is just a small part of it!!!
Anyway, i would like to add on my previous posts.
One thing up here is that yes the recruitment ban doesnt get much support as like with me alot of ex G.A guys here know how you must feel about wanting the job here. Some of us didnt even know who IFALPA were. We did think it hypocritical to expect those who need the job to do the work for us especially when we had limited industrial action last year and alot of the Captains hardly raised a finger to help, but that was the effect of intimidation from the company. We also dont get the chance to knock back upgrades, we just get a letter in our mailbox that tells us when and what. I would guess that if you walked into the office to say no thanks it would be like handing in your resignation. As i have said before, industrial action up here is very difficult, the union have seeked advice from all over on methods, some are good and some arent(the ban), but big picture stuff is that we have to go along with it otherwise this company would roll us over and the little niceties that we have that make Hong Kong worth our while would be slowly degraded, and believe me they would do it!!!
So its not perfect.
My concern is that there are enuff hard liners, hence my reasons for not posting on CPRUNE these days, that would make life pretty uncomfortable for the new joiners and you need to be aware of this. The other thing is if we have a bit of a win this year with whatever we have planned, maybe even a few court cases going our way, believe me the fence sitters will jump well and truly back the unions way, and then the support for the union will get even stronger because that is what alot of people are waiting for, a few wins.
Good luck with your decisions anyway, remember there are enuff ex GA guys/girls here to still have you over for a BBQ but that is just a small part of it!!!
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We also dont get the chance to knock back upgrades, we just get a letter in our mailbox that tells us when and what. I would guess that if you walked into the office to say no thanks it would be like handing in your resignation.
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Callbutton...you can quote me all you like, i have made it clear that the recruitment ban is not a favorite up here and we are probably our worst enemies, however you are missing my point. It being that there are alot of hard liners here who will make things difficult for the new joiners, eg the list of new joiners sent around so as that they shouldnt get jumpseats when requested to get home etc etc. I am just wanting to let people know that these things are happening and may get worst if we start actually doing some good with our actions, something everyone should consider.
Im not here to scare off or to encourage, just to inform.
Im not here to scare off or to encourage, just to inform.
Join Date: May 2002
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Good idea that knocking back new joiners from jump seats for occasional trips home. Immediately identifies hard liners and will probably be a privilege taken away from Captains soon, jump seats being allocated by crew control.
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No worries CB.
This whole thing has turned into a mess and people trying to get into CX are the ones losing out. I feel that anyone who says we are hypocrits are absolutely correct as far as the ban goes. Alot of our senior guys will stick their hands up and vote for action but then do nothing, this has been a thorn in our sides, i just hope that we can finish it soon either way and drop this ban ASAP!!
Good luck all!!!
This whole thing has turned into a mess and people trying to get into CX are the ones losing out. I feel that anyone who says we are hypocrits are absolutely correct as far as the ban goes. Alot of our senior guys will stick their hands up and vote for action but then do nothing, this has been a thorn in our sides, i just hope that we can finish it soon either way and drop this ban ASAP!!
Good luck all!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Spot on tifters....you are a person that thinks for himself...how on earth can you ask others to fight your battles, as the new hires have nothing to do with this..... if the CX guys belive the company is so bad... then resign...as I bet during the interview process the now militants would have projected the goody-two-shoes image...and now want to deny others a career..... 
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Munchkin to shorty shortly.
You and other trecherous minded management quislings are more stupid than i thought.
By posing as pilots on here and trying to persuede new recruits to join a company in the middle of an act of self destruction that is your handywork, will only prolong this miserable dispute.
The recruits won't even have a contract and they can be fired for 'no particular reason' - Your official view to the press.
New recruits may be desperate to work but they are not crazy.
THERE IS NO CAREER HERE IN CATHAY PACIFIC UNTIL THIS DISPUTE IS RESOLVED, A COS SIGNED AND THE 49ERS REINSTATED
Well you trecherous little man i am here to tell you that your poison will not work.
You are going to court.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potential new recruits hear me:
Use your own moral judgement about this situation and ignore the minor managers writing here feeding you poison. Their own skins are at stake here and quite a few will be fired when CX have to deal and deal they will. That is all they care about - themselves.
The current CX pilots, even the non union members feel strongly; they want the reinstatement of the 49ers forthwith, a career structure, a negotiated COS, to incude rostering and safety issues. They do not exist at the moment. We will always require representation, that much is clear.
Our profession is in the middle of a beancounter onslaught fuelled by personal hatred, profits and management bonuses. It is stretching over many airlines within the One World group. Basically they are trying to crush your pilot profession.
The straw pole on this site is meaningless. This whole Fragrant Harbour site is a managment vehicle for their lies and spin. They, together with their union busting company Freehills have failed spectacularly to make an impression on Cprune the private forum and have subsequently given up.
By all means apply and be interviewed if you really cannot see an alternative, but DO NOT accept a start date no matter what the pressure in interview, until this is resolved.
Remember that it's your profession and try to think long term.
You and other trecherous minded management quislings are more stupid than i thought.
By posing as pilots on here and trying to persuede new recruits to join a company in the middle of an act of self destruction that is your handywork, will only prolong this miserable dispute.
The recruits won't even have a contract and they can be fired for 'no particular reason' - Your official view to the press.
New recruits may be desperate to work but they are not crazy.
THERE IS NO CAREER HERE IN CATHAY PACIFIC UNTIL THIS DISPUTE IS RESOLVED, A COS SIGNED AND THE 49ERS REINSTATED
Well you trecherous little man i am here to tell you that your poison will not work.
You are going to court.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potential new recruits hear me:
Use your own moral judgement about this situation and ignore the minor managers writing here feeding you poison. Their own skins are at stake here and quite a few will be fired when CX have to deal and deal they will. That is all they care about - themselves.
The current CX pilots, even the non union members feel strongly; they want the reinstatement of the 49ers forthwith, a career structure, a negotiated COS, to incude rostering and safety issues. They do not exist at the moment. We will always require representation, that much is clear.
Our profession is in the middle of a beancounter onslaught fuelled by personal hatred, profits and management bonuses. It is stretching over many airlines within the One World group. Basically they are trying to crush your pilot profession.
The straw pole on this site is meaningless. This whole Fragrant Harbour site is a managment vehicle for their lies and spin. They, together with their union busting company Freehills have failed spectacularly to make an impression on Cprune the private forum and have subsequently given up.
By all means apply and be interviewed if you really cannot see an alternative, but DO NOT accept a start date no matter what the pressure in interview, until this is resolved.
Remember that it's your profession and try to think long term.
Bottums Up
Munchkin,
It is my understanding that since the 49ers were fired, pilots within CX have accepted upgrades (S/O to F/O, F/O to Command) to fill some, if not all the vacancies. I also understand that CX has a short term need of some 200 pilots.
How do you explain existing crew accepting upgrades whilst at the same time trying to exert pressure on potential new hires not to accept a job, to support a cause you folk don't seem to be making sacrifices for yourselves?
It is my understanding that since the 49ers were fired, pilots within CX have accepted upgrades (S/O to F/O, F/O to Command) to fill some, if not all the vacancies. I also understand that CX has a short term need of some 200 pilots.
How do you explain existing crew accepting upgrades whilst at the same time trying to exert pressure on potential new hires not to accept a job, to support a cause you folk don't seem to be making sacrifices for yourselves?
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Was in HK last week and caught up with a few friends for a brew or seven.
The one thing that surprised me was that when this topic was brought up seemingly good natured people started to get agro and displayed hostility towards these people.
I dont care either way as its nothing to do with me but I believe those accepting jobs may expect a little antagonism towards them.
The one thing that surprised me was that when this topic was brought up seemingly good natured people started to get agro and displayed hostility towards these people.
I dont care either way as its nothing to do with me but I believe those accepting jobs may expect a little antagonism towards them.
Munchkin
Your issues seem petty compared to a fellow who gets a phone call from CX for a 747 course starting in March, on three times the salary they are on now. Maybe you should get someone else to hear you?
Your issues seem petty compared to a fellow who gets a phone call from CX for a 747 course starting in March, on three times the salary they are on now. Maybe you should get someone else to hear you?
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Very difficult issue.
Sadly when one needs to work and pay the bills there are not too many options that one can afford to decline.
Are there any flight deck positions being offerred by any of the pilot unions? Do any of the pilot unions actually hire pilots? I have always been under the impression that one needs to apply with the people representing the airline, not the people representing the pilots.
So it might be best if we pilots take a more realistic view of things and not but the burden on unemployed pilots to champion the cause of pilots already employed. I do not think that any of the people who have accepted positions are really the cause of the issues at hand. The focus needs to be on how one can effect change in a way that will work. Does not appear that this course of action is getting the desired results.
Perhaps there is a better way to deal with this issue. I am certain that in time cooler heads will prevail. A battle is more decisively won if the forces are unified.
Best of luck to all of you guys.
Sadly when one needs to work and pay the bills there are not too many options that one can afford to decline.
Are there any flight deck positions being offerred by any of the pilot unions? Do any of the pilot unions actually hire pilots? I have always been under the impression that one needs to apply with the people representing the airline, not the people representing the pilots.
So it might be best if we pilots take a more realistic view of things and not but the burden on unemployed pilots to champion the cause of pilots already employed. I do not think that any of the people who have accepted positions are really the cause of the issues at hand. The focus needs to be on how one can effect change in a way that will work. Does not appear that this course of action is getting the desired results.
Perhaps there is a better way to deal with this issue. I am certain that in time cooler heads will prevail. A battle is more decisively won if the forces are unified.
Best of luck to all of you guys.
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Any news??
Hi all.
I'm new in this forum. I have just read the entire thread from scratch. My situation is this: I'm presently working for a Scandinavian company, but has been layed off from May 2003. I have just been invited to an interview with CX. I intend to go to the interview and what might follow. Meanwhile I'll think about what to do, should CX offer me a job. I don't know the story about the 49'ers other than what I have been able to pick up here. So far I sympathise with them, but I can't, for the love of god, not see how I can help them by staying away from CX. In my humple opinion I can help them more from inside the company as a member of the AOA (if that's an option). I would gladly pay my contribution to the 49'ers like the rest of the AOA-members.
Rumor has it here in Scandinavia, that there has been hired a new CEO. Is that true? If so: Does anyone know his stand on the recruitment-ban?
I would of course prefer to join CX when there's no more problems, but I don't see how other people (49'ers and AOA) are supposed to be feeling better just because my life is miserable. I would hate to end as a pilot who have to write 0/0 in the field where I was supposed to write how many hours I have flown in the last 6/12 months.
I hope to get some constructive answers to this reply and also some specifics on the reason for the whole 49'ers problem. I want to understand it as I'm sure it will help me to make up my mind. That is if there's still anyone out there that remembers what this is all about..
Good luck to you all.
P.S. "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough".
I'm new in this forum. I have just read the entire thread from scratch. My situation is this: I'm presently working for a Scandinavian company, but has been layed off from May 2003. I have just been invited to an interview with CX. I intend to go to the interview and what might follow. Meanwhile I'll think about what to do, should CX offer me a job. I don't know the story about the 49'ers other than what I have been able to pick up here. So far I sympathise with them, but I can't, for the love of god, not see how I can help them by staying away from CX. In my humple opinion I can help them more from inside the company as a member of the AOA (if that's an option). I would gladly pay my contribution to the 49'ers like the rest of the AOA-members.
Rumor has it here in Scandinavia, that there has been hired a new CEO. Is that true? If so: Does anyone know his stand on the recruitment-ban?
I would of course prefer to join CX when there's no more problems, but I don't see how other people (49'ers and AOA) are supposed to be feeling better just because my life is miserable. I would hate to end as a pilot who have to write 0/0 in the field where I was supposed to write how many hours I have flown in the last 6/12 months.
I hope to get some constructive answers to this reply and also some specifics on the reason for the whole 49'ers problem. I want to understand it as I'm sure it will help me to make up my mind. That is if there's still anyone out there that remembers what this is all about..
Good luck to you all.
P.S. "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough".
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" I, ME, MINE"
At the end of the day, pilots are their own worst enemy.
Always in the self interest, never in the interest of the 'fraternity'. A shameful situation.
Pilots already employed accepting upgrades - new starters wanting to start when their are disputes going on
It is unfair to expect new hires to accept the burden in order to gain better conditions for a company they are about to join, whilst pilots in the company, fully aware of the situation and basis of the dispute, continue accepting upgrades. How hypocritical!!
Pilots are always the first to complain that management is trying to take the mickey out of them.
Management of airlines the world over know what a bunch of self centred, self-loving ba$tards pilots are, and how willing they are to step on another pilots head and scratch out each others' eyes (in a roundabout and sneaky way) to get that job or be in a position to 'feed the young ones'. Feeding the young ones is a noble cause, but hey, you wanna a medal? The rest of us have to do the same, but thanks to these cop-outs, we have less to feed them with, and less time to be there to do the feeding.
The news is, until pilots are a unified group, wages and conditions WILL be eroded.
New starters and 'upgradees' (especially) deserve the full ire of union members, for weakening the pilot position. They are willing to accept all the benefits and conditions hard fought and won by union members, but refuse to carry any of the burden and sacrifice.
Now back to basics:
If all the pilots acted as a unified group then management would have to deal honestly with them. The risk to the company would be too great to not to. If they acted honestly, so should the union. There is a great inter-dependency that goes on in business and industrial relations, that is often lost in the worker vs employer (who is acting in the interest of the shareholders) battle.
There has to be some kind of comprimise between old/new members and the health of the company. Compromise is something that has been forgotten in this world of my profits/my conditions/my struggle.
That is: No company - no jobs. No employees - no company. No good employees (incl management) - no profits. No profits - No shareholders. No sharholders - no company etc etc and around it goes.
The goal should be to work together for the benefit of all - what benefits us, should benefit others, cause at the end of the day, we all need each other.
There endeth the sermon................................................what was that you just said, Willard??
Always in the self interest, never in the interest of the 'fraternity'. A shameful situation.
Pilots already employed accepting upgrades - new starters wanting to start when their are disputes going on
It is unfair to expect new hires to accept the burden in order to gain better conditions for a company they are about to join, whilst pilots in the company, fully aware of the situation and basis of the dispute, continue accepting upgrades. How hypocritical!!
Pilots are always the first to complain that management is trying to take the mickey out of them.
Management of airlines the world over know what a bunch of self centred, self-loving ba$tards pilots are, and how willing they are to step on another pilots head and scratch out each others' eyes (in a roundabout and sneaky way) to get that job or be in a position to 'feed the young ones'. Feeding the young ones is a noble cause, but hey, you wanna a medal? The rest of us have to do the same, but thanks to these cop-outs, we have less to feed them with, and less time to be there to do the feeding.
The news is, until pilots are a unified group, wages and conditions WILL be eroded.
New starters and 'upgradees' (especially) deserve the full ire of union members, for weakening the pilot position. They are willing to accept all the benefits and conditions hard fought and won by union members, but refuse to carry any of the burden and sacrifice.
Now back to basics:
If all the pilots acted as a unified group then management would have to deal honestly with them. The risk to the company would be too great to not to. If they acted honestly, so should the union. There is a great inter-dependency that goes on in business and industrial relations, that is often lost in the worker vs employer (who is acting in the interest of the shareholders) battle.
There has to be some kind of comprimise between old/new members and the health of the company. Compromise is something that has been forgotten in this world of my profits/my conditions/my struggle.
That is: No company - no jobs. No employees - no company. No good employees (incl management) - no profits. No profits - No shareholders. No sharholders - no company etc etc and around it goes.
The goal should be to work together for the benefit of all - what benefits us, should benefit others, cause at the end of the day, we all need each other.
There endeth the sermon................................................what was that you just said, Willard??
Last edited by Col. Walter E. Kurtz; 4th Mar 2003 at 21:57.
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I have just joined CX. Have many friends here all who joined before the ban and some after. To date, I have not had 1 negative comment towards me and either have the guys I know.
None of us are anti union, but as it has been said so many times, why should we make the ultimate sacrifice while the militent union guys take upgrades. I tried to email the unions during my interview process and had no reply. I spoke to as many poeple as possible, even Captains who have been in the company for many years, not one person said not to join. I am also not that blind to think that there is no need for a union, but why would they take there problems with the company out on us. If I do get some nasty comments it will be disapointing but at the end of the day this is what I have been aiming for my whole carreer.
None of us are anti union, but as it has been said so many times, why should we make the ultimate sacrifice while the militent union guys take upgrades. I tried to email the unions during my interview process and had no reply. I spoke to as many poeple as possible, even Captains who have been in the company for many years, not one person said not to join. I am also not that blind to think that there is no need for a union, but why would they take there problems with the company out on us. If I do get some nasty comments it will be disapointing but at the end of the day this is what I have been aiming for my whole carreer.
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Well said Foxtel! It is interesting to hear the opion of a new recruit and how they have been treated so far.
I for one will not turn down an offer if I was to get one while seniors take upgrades. Don"t ask the people who dream of an airline job to do your dirty work while u sit smuggly.
I for one will not turn down an offer if I was to get one while seniors take upgrades. Don"t ask the people who dream of an airline job to do your dirty work while u sit smuggly.
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I too have joined post ban and to date have had very little problems to the credit of the fine guys i have flown with.
What the people in the AOA have to realise is they are not asking us to delay a start date, it is beyond that we have tried. I put my start off till i got the start now or never speach. So dont give us the put if off line.. it is wrong! FACT! I tried. You are now saying to these new guys "give up your dream careers" but im going to take that command slot or f/o slot.
I dont expect a justification for this as i have not heard one in the 21months it has been going on.
I also believe in the place of assosiations but feel the AOA is currently commiting suicide, the top people are too proud to admit the ban has not had the affect they were after, and by continuing it are losing a valuable percentage of the pilot group, not just new joiners but those leaving the AOA in droves.
What the people in the AOA have to realise is they are not asking us to delay a start date, it is beyond that we have tried. I put my start off till i got the start now or never speach. So dont give us the put if off line.. it is wrong! FACT! I tried. You are now saying to these new guys "give up your dream careers" but im going to take that command slot or f/o slot.
I dont expect a justification for this as i have not heard one in the 21months it has been going on.
I also believe in the place of assosiations but feel the AOA is currently commiting suicide, the top people are too proud to admit the ban has not had the affect they were after, and by continuing it are losing a valuable percentage of the pilot group, not just new joiners but those leaving the AOA in droves.