Air NZ contract
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air NZ contract
Hi guys. Anyone have the latest Air NZ pilot contract. I’ll gladly trade the Alaska Airlines contract with them from the states. Trying to see if the grass might be greener down in your neck of the woods.
Alaska Airlines or Air NZ??? Any tips from fellow pilots?
Not much different to when you asked several months ago I would say.
If you have to go to NZ then it would be a reasonable job, if you want career progression or $ stay where you are.
The grass won't be greener, it will simply be different.
Not much different to when you asked several months ago I would say.
If you have to go to NZ then it would be a reasonable job, if you want career progression or $ stay where you are.
The grass won't be greener, it will simply be different.
The CEA is nearly 200 pages and is accompanied by another 100 or so pages of CSR's (Crew Scheduling Rules). I don't mind posting basic information (most of which is already on here) but have no intention of sending the Documents out over the ether. Call me paranoid, but NZ suffers from a sever case of tall poppy syndrome with a strongly bias left leaning media.... just look at what happened to our Engineers recently. A media induced lynch mob because the dare earn more than the average wage 
In terms of Air NZ vs QF, the real question is, where do you want to live? It really is that simple... although it's not that difficult to commute between to two Countries if you're on a Widebody. Compared to J*/Virgin then it should be a no brainer. Legacy Carrier wins hands down for T's&C's while the other might get you a quick command to take overseas. That being said, an A320 Command at Air NZ is ~5 years at the moment, not sure about Skippy, but I doubt you'd see an East Coast 737 Command in less than a decade?
Some basic information however:
Salaries are already posted in another thread so I wont repeat here. What's not posted however, is there are 2% increment steps from Years 1-8 and 1-12 for Captains.
Incentive pay above 60hrs with 3 steps (60-75. 75-90, 90-100)
Minimum 10 Days off per 28. There are clauses to dip below this dependent on fleet with requirements to make it up later.
"Grey" days for days off in excess of 10.
A plethora of rostering rules to aid in lifestyle. Too many to list, but there are limits on consecutive early starts, duties past midnight, domestic vs international vs mix. Home rest Matrix based on TOD's etc etc
Annual Leave - 28 Days Per year + 6 Days to compensate for working weekends + 11 Public Holidays which can be converted to Leave. You get an extra 7 days per year after 20 years service.
Kiwsaver (Retirement) contributions up to 7.5%
It's all the little things that add up to make Legacy carriers a better Lifestyle than the LCC's. Many Pilots forget about this and simply look at money/time to Command, while many Legacy Pilots have forgotten (or never knew) what life's like without them.
In terms of Air NZ vs QF, the real question is, where do you want to live? It really is that simple... although it's not that difficult to commute between to two Countries if you're on a Widebody. Compared to J*/Virgin then it should be a no brainer. Legacy Carrier wins hands down for T's&C's while the other might get you a quick command to take overseas. That being said, an A320 Command at Air NZ is ~5 years at the moment, not sure about Skippy, but I doubt you'd see an East Coast 737 Command in less than a decade?
Some basic information however:
Salaries are already posted in another thread so I wont repeat here. What's not posted however, is there are 2% increment steps from Years 1-8 and 1-12 for Captains.
Incentive pay above 60hrs with 3 steps (60-75. 75-90, 90-100)
Minimum 10 Days off per 28. There are clauses to dip below this dependent on fleet with requirements to make it up later.
"Grey" days for days off in excess of 10.
A plethora of rostering rules to aid in lifestyle. Too many to list, but there are limits on consecutive early starts, duties past midnight, domestic vs international vs mix. Home rest Matrix based on TOD's etc etc
Annual Leave - 28 Days Per year + 6 Days to compensate for working weekends + 11 Public Holidays which can be converted to Leave. You get an extra 7 days per year after 20 years service.
Kiwsaver (Retirement) contributions up to 7.5%
It's all the little things that add up to make Legacy carriers a better Lifestyle than the LCC's. Many Pilots forget about this and simply look at money/time to Command, while many Legacy Pilots have forgotten (or never knew) what life's like without them.
Hi ElZilcho, thank you for the time you took for your detailed reply. With that additional information and some basic math from the Wages Compilation thread, it appears the numbers are pretty much a wash between Air NZ and Virgin / Jetstar (AU). Depending on the exchange rate it could really go either way, but not by much.
So as you rightly say it comes down to lifestyle, and what's an extra $10k a year worth if all you want to do is sit in a dark room with a wet cloth over your eyes... However, I'm not even sure I could afford a room in Auckland to do that in! Has the trans-Tasman rivalry got that bad it's reached real estate too?? Never would have thought it possible, but Auckland at the very least might have edged east coast Australia for Cost of Living.
I find myself in a somewhat unique position - parents from both countries, but most of growing up in Australia. Wife is Australian. Her family is all in Aus. For me, I know I could be happy in either country but happy wife, happy life...
If I were to get offers from all interviews then I know I'll have the full paperwork in front of me but geez... What a problem to have!
So as you rightly say it comes down to lifestyle, and what's an extra $10k a year worth if all you want to do is sit in a dark room with a wet cloth over your eyes... However, I'm not even sure I could afford a room in Auckland to do that in! Has the trans-Tasman rivalry got that bad it's reached real estate too?? Never would have thought it possible, but Auckland at the very least might have edged east coast Australia for Cost of Living.
I find myself in a somewhat unique position - parents from both countries, but most of growing up in Australia. Wife is Australian. Her family is all in Aus. For me, I know I could be happy in either country but happy wife, happy life...
If I were to get offers from all interviews then I know I'll have the full paperwork in front of me but geez... What a problem to have!
Admittedly, I'm not all that familiar with the contracts over in Aus, and the pay there is generally better than NZ. So comparing one of their LCC's to Air NZ might be a lot closer, but having flown for one of their NZ based Airlines in the past, I too weighed up joining the Koru Vs taking a Command where I was. Ultimately, I made my decision based on working conditions, job security and multiple fleet options but was pleasantly surprised that the pay increase was more than I had expected after all factors were taken into account.
As for housing, get on a Widebody and you wont have to live in Auckland. You could live anywhere in NZ so long as you have a solid plan to get to work. Even on the Airbus people commute from Hamilton, Tauranga, Rotorua etc and there are also Domiciles in Wellington and Christchurch. Interviewers might hint you need to move to Auckland, but you don't.
From my perspective, I always thought it odd that contracts can be found on the FWA website by anyone willing to look.
Probably nothing to stop Air NZ from doing the same if they wanted too I guess. There's just no website in NZ that hosts multiple contracts like the FWA does and no ALPA contracts (for any Airline) are available to the public... or members of other Airlines. i.e. I can't logon to the NZALPA website and access the Jetstar NZ contract.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi El Zilcho. Can you tell us the average career progression times on the 787 and 777 fleet? From SO- FO-CA? Just flew on NZ8 this past weekend from Akl-Sfo and the crew looked a little on the older side. Wasn’t able to get a chance to talk to them as they they were busy in line in immigration.
Hi El Zilcho. Can you tell us the average career progression times on the 787 and 777 fleet? From SO- FO-CA? Just flew on NZ8 this past weekend from Akl-Sfo and the crew looked a little on the older side. Wasn’t able to get a chance to talk to them as they they were busy in line in immigration.
With 5? 787's parked at the moment, if/when they get fixed it might create a bit of a training bubble, but wont effect anyone hired in the last few years, mainly those at the front of the wave.
Honestly, the way things are going at the moment, Widebody FO positions are generally more desirable than A320 Commands.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NZ
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone have an idea of how many people have been hired since 2013? I am interested in joining, however I feel like I would be joining at the back of a big wave of young guys could be spending a long time as an SO or 320 FO.
It would seem words gotten out at the rate our list is growing because we’ve had a fair amount of no-shows for interviews in recent months.
That being said, +/- 200 spots I can find people 10 years my junior and senior, so don’t assume everyone ahead of you is 25-30 years old.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NZ
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your reply ElZilcho. That is in the region of what I was thinking. It is definitely a bit of a consideration for me, as I am already mid Thirties and haven't interviewed yet. That could potentially mean never having the seniority to get a wide body command or being close to retirement before it happened.
Thanks for your reply ElZilcho. That is in the region of what I was thinking. It is definitely a bit of a consideration for me, as I am already mid Thirties and haven't interviewed yet. That could potentially mean never having the seniority to get a wide body command or being close to retirement before it happened.
A320 Commands sit at 5-6 years and I doubt that will change much anytime soon. So, when considering the (local) options, how does it compare to being a career narrowbody Captain at Jetstar/Virgin/Jetconnect? At least with Air NZ you have the option of Widebody SO/FO for some variety if age/seniority precludes you from a Command.
It really comes down to where you are now and where you want to end up. I’ve seen many friends take their Jet time overseas for quicker commands and better pay, several have come home but not all... yet.
None of us really know how the next few decades will play out. I doubt we’ll see Pilotless Commercial Aircraft anytime soon, but Longhaul, Single Pilot cruise Aircraft are a very real possibility and I wouldn’t want to be on the bottom of a Seniority list if/when that happens, especially as an expat in a country with poor labor laws.
Ultimately, if a Widebody Command is the goal, then one must ask “If not Air NZ, then where?”. Personally, the expat lifestyle doesn’t agree with me.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NZ
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys I appreciate your replies. I agree that Air NZ is definitely a much better long term option than Virgin/JetStar/JC even (possibly) without the seniority to obtain a wide body command. Staying in my current LCC and getting a command then heading to ANA or China on a commuting contract whilst still living in NZ is the other option I was looking at.
I wouldn't be surprised if A320 commands at AirNZ take a bit longer in the future as the current 5-6 years are the guys who were right at the start of the hiring wave.
As they say in Aviation timing is everything !
I wouldn't be surprised if A320 commands at AirNZ take a bit longer in the future as the current 5-6 years are the guys who were right at the start of the hiring wave.
As they say in Aviation timing is everything !
That will be heavily dependent on a few unknowns at this stage. What will replace the 777-200? (Announcement end of March hopefully), when (if) will we have all 787's back flying and how many positions will be filled by tagged Link Pilots Vs external hiring?
If/when recruitment slows to cover retirements only, it's entirely possible we'll have a pool of 200+ Link Pilots already on the list to feed through and external recruitment will close.
If/when recruitment slows to cover retirements only, it's entirely possible we'll have a pool of 200+ Link Pilots already on the list to feed through and external recruitment will close.
