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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:18
  #761 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 9

To the ADminGuys...whats your take on the state of the future of pilots after Corona.I assume you guys are all avaition professiobals and have seen it all.
It is an extremely tough time for young wannabees. Not good for the morale. Gone all the tines when we were all full of the exciting career caree.I feel bad for eager young guys with a few hours to have their spirits and morale dashed Thank you.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:25
  #762 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Home Counties
Posts: 38
Everyone says 'get a career in IT' but do they know what thats like? Everyone I know that works in that field are on hand to mouth 6 month contracts with no job security and constantly having to retrain themselves at their own expense.

Focus on getting as good an education as you can and look for other ways to develp yourself ie sports and coaching or military cadet organisations. Teamwork and people skills are a big part of airline flying.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:36
  #763 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Capewiis reply.

You are perfecrltly correct. Lots of people got into I.T. cause its where the money is and ut will always be a secure job ..sme as back home in the U S of A not so anymore you advice Capwell is spot on.
keep safe everyone and best of luck
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:44
  #764 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Up there.
Posts: 232
Get a career in something that you're passionate about (realistically). I wouldn't be heading into aviation. My opinion only.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 08:01
  #765 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Solomon Islands
Posts: 30
Only a hang glider pilot. But I remember that first soaring ridge flight, then that first serious thermal to 2000 ft above the English hills and how the world looked, the first cross country flight... and on and on. Each achievement is forever. Each a flight a mixture of faith, and hopeful expectation, increasingly richly awarded. That first flight down Glen Coe from the White Corrie launch, Munro by Munro. What an unfolding adventure and discovery, thermal, wave, wind convergence, .. that time 14,000ft over Segovia in central Spain... now I have no more goals just to keep my oar in when I can.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 08:05
  #766 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
The Bullwinkle nailed it: Do an IT degree. Youíll make more much money more quickly than any career pilot, and youíll be able to fly when and where you like.

If you desperately want to do flying as a career, try to join the ADF as a pilot and get the taxpayer to pay for it.

Otherwise, get used to living in comfortable poverty and insecurity.
Lmao. While I agree there are avenues other than aviation, I love the deluded boomers who think you can just get a career which pays so much that you can fly privately.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 08:08
  #767 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 9

You are not hmjust a hang glider pilot. You are an aviator just like the rest if us
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 08:14
  #768 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by doubletap View Post
Hello Mega. Youíll no doubt hear plenty of naysayers replying to your OP. Iíve been involved with aviation for 45 years in one form or another from the Air Cadets at school to a military career followed by the airlines. Best advice I was ever given..... donít get married, have kids or get a mortgage. Youíll then love every minute!!
Its cheaper to buy for the short term than Marry. A wise old boy once told me, ďif you want to retire as a rich pilot, donít get divorced!Ē

Enjoyed the flying at every stage but 20 years in, I love Longhaul, love the money, love the people and love the job. If I have one in 3 months.

Keep some back. Iím lucky that at younger than 40, I have 2 years slush fund back and no mortgage. Some spend it like itís never going to end, 2 kids in posh school, massive mortgage, 2 Teslaís. yep, thatís great until we have something like NCov when the only people they seem to blame is company instead of themselves.

once you have done it a few years, consider going and developing a second career out of a part time major contract using whatever education and skills you got on the way. Flight crew are good project managers/risk managers.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 08:15
  #769 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 24
My advice is donít confuse a passion to fly with a need to earn an income. Theyíre not the same. Study hard, carve out a good career in IT, accountancy, law, medicine, whatever. Then youíll be able to afford to own and fly in your own plane. Believe me youíll have more fun cutting circuits in a C172 when the air is smooth at sunset than programming the autopilot in a B787 and waiting all night for the sunrise.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 09:15
  #770 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vermont Hwy
Posts: 528
A trade and/or a degree in something, not bad to have in the back pocket, in general.

part of me wishes that I had a trade right now. Plumbing wouldn’t be bad right now with all the people flushing other than TP!

and as someone else said, be smart with your money. Just because it’s good coin doesn’t mean it’ll always be good coin.

get a good education. Work hard in a few different jobs when young, get some life skills and a sense of direction YOU want.

ive got many years left in my career in flying. Would I go do it all again?
you bet I would.

will this all turn around one day?
i believe so. Not very soon, but it will. And it’ll take a while to see the industry like it was over the past few years.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 09:35
  #771 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Up there.
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by Car RAMROD View Post
A trade and/or a degree in something, not bad to have in the back pocket, in general.

part of me wishes that I had a trade right now.
Indeed. Spoke with an airline CPT mate of mine today who last week commanded an RPT jet.....he's now mixing concrete.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 10:10
  #772 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,411
Based on 30--odd years in Aviation watching the Pilots strike of 89, recession we had to have in 91-94, the tech crunch in 2000, Sept 11 in 2001, the GFC in 2008, and now this....

This, too, shall pass.

Each of these events in turn has brought stronger demand for pilots.
Work hard. Play sport. Never say a bad word about another person. Learn how to drink with blokes without getting drunk or making a fool of yourself.

If you are pleasant company and a good bloke/good chick, you will go far in this industry which more than most operates on passion for what we do.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 10:35
  #773 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 34
Posts: 198
Give it a go!

First point, donít worry about all the Covid-19 stuff going on right now. By the time you finish school the market will be recovering anyway.

Few other tips or things to look at:
- try gliding. Itís cheap, still teaches you good stick and rudder skills, plus you can use the hours towards your licence requirements later on. Also keeps you interested while you save money (next point).

- save as much money as you can before commencing flight training. No matter what path you choose, the ultimate goal is to have as little (or no) debt at the end. I still owed about $60K at the end and grew to hate the repayments and the debt hanging around my neck for years. Plus being on a low salary starting out made it hard to do other things like buy a house. Check out this blog for an example of what your career pathway could look like:

- finish school and get some reasonable grades. Not having Year 12 could be an issue later on. But more importantly school will teach you how to study and learn. Which youíll need later on for all the PPL/CPL/ATPL subjects (plus new aircraft, renewals, etc).

- donít pay for any training in advance!! Ever!! Unless itís something like a Rex cadet scheme or some other airline program, donít pay your local flying school in advance for a whole course. I did once, they screwed me around, but because Iíd already paid I couldnít leave without losing the money.

- if itís really what you want, just do it! Thereís plenty of Ďhelpful opinionsí on here which will just throw the get a job in IT line at you and call it advice. I still like my job, I still enjoy flying, 18 years after my first solo. But thereís plenty of people I fly with who donít enjoy their job anymore, but they exist in every industry.

As the aircraft get bigger, the pay packet should grow, but so does the responsibility. The fun factor also decreases proportional to the increase in aircraft size. Thatís when some guys get a private aircraft or return to gliding.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 10:45
  #774 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melrose
Posts: 46
Lots of good advice on here. Get a career first and then think about flying. I went to Uni and did a degree in engineering. I applied to join the Air Squadron at Uni, but didn't get in - too many applicants. I had passed all the tests, so was given a chit, that had I done National Service, I would have been sent to the Air Force to learn to fly. Didn't happen. I got a First Class Honours Degree and was employed by Rolls-Royce as an aircraft engine designer on military projects. Guess what? This employment made me exempt from NS. Eventually I took up gliding,as this was the easiest way to learn to fly, and became a cross country pilot and an instructor . Retired when I got bored with it, having done 2200 sorties and 1000+hrs, every hour hands on the stick. I didn't miss flying a bit, and had other hobbies to pursue. Just for fun, after a thirty year gap, I went and had a week flying at our local gliding club. Three trips and I was back solo. Flying is like roller skating - you never forget how to do it. Flying is a great hobby, but I'm certain that for me it would not have been a satisfying career. You only live once, this is not a rehearsal!

Last edited by Olympia463; 3rd Apr 2020 at 13:33.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 11:18
  #775 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Cranbourne, Melbourne
Posts: 10
thank you. money is not the thing in my mind. ive had the aviation bug since a very young age and love the feeling of being off the ground and taking people to places. just i am worried what to do in the future and i know to study hard but i dont want to graduate from high school not knowing what to do. i am currently doing my RPL in my local flying school. i am looking at doing a university course which is AB initio but has a VET student loan which is very nice. or i would like to try the cadetship because being in an airliner has always been my goal and not GA. im just looking in pathway advice because i know one day i would have to face the reality and i understand the industry is tough. thanks a lot for the advice.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 16:08
  #776 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Melbourne, Australia + Washington D.C.
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by megab22 View Post
thank you. money is not the thing in my mind. ive had the aviation bug since a very young age and love the feeling of being off the ground and taking people to places. just i am worried what to do in the future and i know to study hard but i dont want to graduate from high school not knowing what to do. i am currently doing my RPL in my local flying school. i am looking at doing a university course which is AB initio but has a VET student loan which is very nice. or i would like to try the cadetship because being in an airliner has always been my goal and not GA. im just looking in pathway advice because i know one day i would have to face the reality and i understand the industry is tough. thanks a lot for the advice.
Good, it is a huge head start if money is not the primary focus on your mind right now.

There's no book called wisdom, everyone's different.

You will almost always be rewarded for taking risks and trying new things out. Even if you aim for A and miss, it'll be the things that you learned and that you never suspected in the first place that will be the main takeaway. And looking back, it won't be the things that you tried that you'll regret but the things that you did not. Over time, that will come back to haunt you and it'll bite you hard.

Connecting dots looking ahead is almost always a fallacious exercise. It'll only give you a fake sense of security that will do you no justice in the long run.

My advice: slack when you must but never become too complacent, keep an open mind, accept that you will change and will not be same the bloke you are today in 5, 10 or 15 years, stay smart, strive for curiosity, take risks, think big. When luck eventually hits, and it will, you'll be ready.

This video by Casey Neistat is a perfect example of that mindset:

Last edited by Okihara; 4th Apr 2020 at 03:24.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 16:53
  #777 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Cranbourne, Melbourne
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
The cadets had fun, have enthusiasm, and made friends too mate.

For our young friend in year 9, whatever path you eventually do choose will have to be made at the time. You wonít be out of HS until 2024. Even assuming you go straight into flight training it could be until 2026/7 until you graduate. After doing a uni degree perhaps itíll be closer until the end of the decade. The world will be a very different place. Some companies that exist now wonít in 10 years time. Pathways, careers will be all different. But itís so far off for you I wouldnít bother worrying about it now.

We has a GFC in 2008/9 but we recovered in a few years. This shock will probably go on for longer. But it will end. Donít forget the ďroaring twentiesĒ followed the 1918 flu. The current shock will probably be at least in a recovery by the time you have left high school, and thereís the baby boomer demographic retiring in the next 5 years as well. Keep the dream alive but donít worry about career prospects for a while mate.
Thanks a lot for that. I am not taking it very seriously now because Iím trying to enjoy what time I have left being a teenager but the passion of flying will always be with me, and that I hope one day I could end up flying in class A taking passengers to their destinations.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 21:10
  #778 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the doghouse
Posts: 495
Go enjoy life for a bit first - see what you like to do outside of aviation and do that. If you can make a living from it even better. Fly in your spare time for a few years.

Plenty of pilots out there who havenít got a single life/work experience outside of aviation and itís like conversing with a couch.

If you do ever decide to make aviation your only form of employment youíll have other skills that will be invaluable to employers.

And finally - enjoy what youíre doing at the time and donít be in a rush to the Ďtopí - if money is all youíre after then fill your boots, but lifestyle is pretty important to me and Iíve been patient and now have the best of both worlds (natural disasters are more than a little spanner in the works but we will get through in time)

Good luck.

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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 21:17
  #779 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 333
Mega, lots of good advice but “everyone pay’s the piper”. No job is perfect. There are drawbacks everywhere. Aviation desire is like those rose tinted glasses. From that perfect place you holidayed and decided to move there only to find it was no longer perfect as work interfered with what was the holiday. Had a applicant many years ago who after a few flights chucked it in stating “I fly for fun not work” (and no, not a floater a very much focused individual given his history).

Also very much I guess (as with all of us) at your age you cannot wait to have a job, do what you want, only to realise when you get there, taxes, rent utilities, groceries, rego, fuel, clothes etc takes away the fun of a pay cheque with which you where going to have a huge time. The point? When you become that Captain on “biggus dickus” airlines you may realise that the purity of flying that bug smasher which requires hands on all the time is real flying. The military is great as you get trained to a high standard quickly, fly some awesome kit, and in general are surrounded by likeminded people (yes likeminded people in the commercial sector but how often do you work with the same people etc). But there is also a lot of guff you have to put up with (like any job) and although you have input in your career path you don’t make the decisions. I see you are In Melbourne. Suggest you check out East Sale, even apply as it cost nothing to put your toe in the waters and you are under no obligations.

Although the story of from C152 to the Space shuttle is very true it is also what life is about for those ambitious people. The next step on the ladder. But with each step comes a higher altitude which also brings more responsibilities and demands which in turn detracts from the purity of the initial desire.

Enough waxing and waning philosophically. Best advice I can give is if you want to do something do it, BUT have a realistic view of what it entails. Don’t just talk to one person, talk to as many as you can.

Best of luck.

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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 23:00
  #780 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All at sea
Posts: 1,876
Airline flying as a career now has a limited shelf life.
Autonomous flight is coming to an airport near you. Not next year or even next decade, but certainly within the working life of today’s 20 year olds.
In my 50 plus year career, radio operators were already gone from western cockpits (though the Russians held on to them in the name of employment for all), then we saw the demise of the flight navigator, the flight engineer, and now development of some very clever drones.
If I was starting out now as a late teenager I doubt I would find IT attractive. Not smart enough! I would qualify in a ‘dirty’ trade or unattractive profession, because that guarantees employment in hard times. People will always need to shit, so will always need a plumber; always have toothaches, so will always need dentists. Or combine dirty with attractive and qualify in divorce or criminal defence law - both always in demand. Pilots could be your main customers for the former, operators for the latter.
Then, if still suffering the aviation bug, become expert on drone operations and finally learn to fly conventional aircraft. I would regard flying as an expensive hobby with some limited career potential.
Niche operations such as RFDS flying will persist for a long time to come. But competition for these jobs will be fierce now that there are so many experienced pilots on the market.

Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 3rd Apr 2020 at 23:21.
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