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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

Old 10th Mar 2020, 08:37
  #741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle View Post
When I was in the UK a lot of students skipped the CPL exams and went straight to the ATPL exams which then gave them a ďFrozenĒ ATPL so they could exercise the rights of a CPL until such time as they had the required hours for their ATPL to be un-frozen.
This might have been what Crusherrr was referring to.
That is exactly what I was referring to. Is this not common in Australia?
I would like some opinions on CAE Melbourne. In Europe CAE is regarded by many as the best flight training organisation and is known to have good relationships with airlines making it easier to secure your first airline job. Is it the same over there?
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 08:06
  #742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Year 10 Work Experience

Hey all,
As I am in Year 10 work experience is upcoming around June/July and is something I am very much looking forward to. I'm wondering if there's any possibility for work experience available in the aviation industry, e.g. at an airport, company office, air base etc. Maybe ASA has something to offer. Any tips regarding who to contact would be extremely helpful.

Thanks,
Qantas331
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:01
  #743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Cranbourne, Melbourne
Posts: 9
Advice for young Aussie future pilots.

Hello, i am currently in year 9 and i hope to become like a lot of pilots here and my friends would like to be pilots too. I am currently working on my RPL but i am confused about what to do in the future. I have seen bad reviews on cadet ships but i can see that it could be a quick way to get in the airline if well done. and i have been seeing university courses that is AB initio. i am just looking for advice on how to approach working for an airline and if i should work on any other licenses after my RPL. I am very confused and i can see too many ways to approach this but not know which ones are the good ways. I have a passion for aviation and i hope to be living my childhood dream one day as so a lot of other teenagers like me. We are asking for any type of advice for us and if we could get help. I am sorry to the current pilots that are affected by COVID-19, i guess we cant do a lot about it other than staying strong and being together. thanks and have a good day.
megab22 is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:11
  #744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 749
Maybe do an IT degree instead.
The Bullwinkle is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:21
  #745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Cranbourne, Melbourne
Posts: 9
probably more likely.
megab22 is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:31
  #746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 3rd Rock
Posts: 187
There are plenty of plenty of paths to a career in aviation. A word of caution if you are looking at the cadet - airline route however is that airline flying not 'fun', it is usually rather clinical.

There are pros and cons to airlines and for me the pros outweigh the cons. If its a passion of flying the aircraft is what you have, then dont hurry to airlines as that enthusiasm will be quickly tempered.

Enjoy whatever road you take, but for most of us our time in GA or the military was where we had the most fun, and made our best friends.

Cadetships were not available in my time and as much as I'm sure I would have taken one if I could have, Im quietly glad I couldn't.
Lapon is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:35
  #747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Cranbourne, Melbourne
Posts: 9
thanks for the advice Lapon. one way or another i still enjoy flight.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:43
  #748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 3rd Rock
Posts: 187
Source unknown:

One fine hot Summerís afternoon saw a Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was getting quite bothered with the studentís inability to hold circuit height in the thermals and was getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000ft above him and thought "Another 1,000 hrs of this and I qualify for that twin charter job! Aaahh.. to be a real pilot.. going somewhere!"

The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Companyís premier clients. Heíd already set MCT and the cylinders didnít like it in the heat of this Summerís day. He was at 6,000ft and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty damn tired. Maybe if he got 10,000ft out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000ft in the serene blue sky. "Oh man" he thought, "My interview is next month. I hope I just donít blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the weather... no snotty passengers to wait for.. aahhh."

The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CATII minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if everyone was going to take a damn pay cut. The F/Oís will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasnít anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/Oís shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THATíS what we should be on... huge pay packet... super fast... not too many routes... not too many sectors... above the CAT... yep! What a life...!"

FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down. That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that heíd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems... aaah. Must be a great way to earn a quid."

Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasnít much help. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isnít this the kinda flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THATíS flying! Man, thatís what its all about! Geez Iíd give my left nut just to be doing THAT down there!" What the Discovery Commander was looking at? A Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
Lapon is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 03:43
  #749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Aus
Age: 28
Posts: 452
Focus on doing well at school. That's all you need to worry about right now.
junior.VH-LFA is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 04:26
  #750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Inglin
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
Source unknown:

One fine hot Summerís afternoon saw a Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was getting quite bothered with the studentís inability to hold circuit height in the thermals and was getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000ft above him and thought "Another 1,000 hrs of this and I qualify for that twin charter job! Aaahh.. to be a real pilot.. going somewhere!"

The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Companyís premier clients. Heíd already set MCT and the cylinders didnít like it in the heat of this Summerís day. He was at 6,000ft and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty damn tired. Maybe if he got 10,000ft out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000ft in the serene blue sky. "Oh man" he thought, "My interview is next month. I hope I just donít blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the weather... no snotty passengers to wait for.. aahhh."

The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CATII minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if everyone was going to take a damn pay cut. The F/Oís will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasnít anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/Oís shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THATíS what we should be on... huge pay packet... super fast... not too many routes... not too many sectors... above the CAT... yep! What a life...!"

FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down. That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that heíd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems... aaah. Must be a great way to earn a quid."

Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasnít much help. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isnít this the kinda flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THATíS flying! Man, thatís what its all about! Geez Iíd give my left nut just to be doing THAT down there!" What the Discovery Commander was looking at? A Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
As a student pilot, I can relate to this so much but on a much smaller scale. During my CPL hour building trip, I landed my Cessna 172 into an airfield to visit my friend who is currently doing the same course on a Cessna 152 at a local flying school. She looks in awe at the sheer size of my aircraft, the extra row of seats and the larger engine power my aircraft had over hers. A few days later when I was back at my flying school, one of the instructors invites me to act as human ballast on a Cessna 206 doing a load check with another instructor for future charter flying purposes. The Cessna 206 will be my next aircraft on the final stage of my training so I jumped immediately at the opportunity. Needless to say, I couldnít wait to feel the high performance of being pinned back to my seat from a CSU equipped aircraft. Sitting from the 3rd row on the takeoff run, I watched in awe at the sheer size of the aircraft. From a distance, I watched as the instructor in training pushed the throttle in and I was pinned to my seat. The engine made a strange noise as the RPM increased too quickly, and the CSU kicked in to try and prevent the engine from reaching its boosted limit. After the flight, I went to congratulate the instructor who was training under supervision for his successful load check, and asked how he felt about flying such a powerful aircraft? He said he hated flying SEPs and couldnít wait to get to the airlines, and had his application sent out tomultiple companies already.

A couple of weeks later, I met an A320 First Officer who had 10 years of service with his current airline. He said he misses the days of being in GA, dodging giraffes and cheetahs while trying to land a Cessna 172 into the dirt strips of Africa. While he is relieved to finally have a constant stream of revenue from his airline job, he doesnít know how long it will last as rumours of the next round of layoffs are beginning to circulate amongst the grapevine. Unfortunately as of today, the airline has downsized tremendously and heís not sure where his career will take him next.

So yeah, it always comes full circle and if thereís something I learned from this experience, Iím going to dedicate my youth to GA and enjoy it for as long as I can!
DoggyWoggy is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 04:52
  #751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cab of a Freight Train
Age: 37
Posts: 613
I have one word as someone who has "Been there, done that..." - Don't!

By that I mean, unless you want to make a career out of GA, and there are those that do, flying Ruffdus, or PolAir etc, airline flying is typically not "fun" flying. As a FIFO worker, I've talked to the tech crew several times over the last decade or so going back and forth and almost without exception, when I've put the question to them "would you do it again?" they've said "No", for a variety of reasons. Most of the crew I've spoken to do still enjoy the job, but they almost universally agree it isn't worth the sacrifice, the time away from home, the constant sim checks or risk of losing the medical, or the dealing with the muppets at Security just to get to work.

I gave away flying for a career about 15 years ago now, and pursued another fascination for me, the railways, and have been driving trains ever since. The roster can be crappy, but you are home in your own bed after almost every shift, but the pay is good from day 1 as a trainee, and depending who you work for, you can get an absolutely amazing roster. I know blokes working for some of the Pilbara operators that do 2 weeks on, 4 weeks off, and earn well over $110K a year, another good mate is on nearly double that doing 2/2 as a casual driver with one of the Port-Hedland operators...When you are earning more than the blokes flying you to work, and only working half the year, looking back I can comfortably say I've made the right choice.

Now I have an RV-9 that I fly for fun, when I want, where I want. IF that's 500' down Victor 1 or cruising above a thin later of stratus in the early morning, I can.

As Junior said above, forget flying for now, and focus on your studies. Doing well through year 12 gives you the opportunity to do whatever you want, and if that's flying, great, if not, you have given yourself other, maybe better, options.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 04:53
  #752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Doomagee
Age: 7
Posts: 725
Too early to tell but Iíve always advised having a backup career first.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 05:20
  #753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: second left, first right
Posts: 20
Hello Mega. Youíll no doubt hear plenty of naysayers replying to your OP. Iíve been involved with aviation for 45 years in one form or another from the Air Cadets at school to a military career followed by the airlines. Best advice I was ever given..... donít get married, have kids or get a mortgage. Youíll then love every minute!!
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 05:40
  #754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sydney OZ
Posts: 8
In one of the "Ask the Pilot" columns the advice given to a new FO was "only get married once."
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 05:50
  #755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 8
Keep flying and chase your dream. Remember that aviation will return, maybe not the levels of recent times and the silver haired ones will retire..
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:10
  #756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,276
The Bullwinkle nailed it: Do an IT degree. You’ll make more much money more quickly than any career pilot, and you’ll be able to fly when and where you like.

If you desperately want to do flying as a career, try to join the ADF as a pilot and get the taxpayer to pay for it.

Otherwise, get used to living in comfortable poverty and insecurity.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:14
  #757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 822
It's difficult to give advice of any kind in these uncertain times. So many pilots out there have been burnt of late-(
best advice I could offer is don't put all yr eggs in the one basket. Aviation always hinges on the edge at the best of times. Any medical can personally end it all right there! Have another skill up yr sleeve preferably not aviation related. I did just that and it saved my bacon a few times over the turbulent years of aviation.
As for marriage and flying? Again best advice I can give is get women out of your system BEFORE you make big money in aviation (if ever!) that way you will lose less! The two so often simply don't mix -)
I only ever went to work flying heavy metal in the end to get the $$$ to enjoy other pursuits, flying is fun but not at the top, grass roots is where the fun lies and am enjoying the full circle route these days more than ever at a 120 kts 500' AGL... Good luck, trust me you'll need it especially in these crazy times!
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:23
  #758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 739
Combine what both Junior and TBM said. Get the best passes you can in year 12 to maximise your opportunities but keep following your dream.

I was convinced by my country flying school CFI that there was no future in commercial aviation and chose a different path. The year? 1978.

My CFI ultimately retired as an international long haul check captain with over 27,000 hours. Guess he was wrong about his gloomy forecasts.

Lucky for me I've had a good life away from aviation. I only regret my decision not to keep flying every second day now. It's slowly getting easier.
CoodaShooda is online now  
Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:32
  #759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,019
Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
There are plenty of plenty of paths to a career in aviation. A word of caution if you are looking at the cadet - airline route however is that airline flying not 'fun', it is usually rather clinical.

Enjoy whatever road you take, but for most of us our time in GA or the military was where we had the most fun, and made our best friends.

Cadetships were not available in my time and as much as I'm sure I would have taken one if I could have, Im quietly glad I couldn't.
The cadets had fun, have enthusiasm, and made friends too mate.

For our young friend in year 9, whatever path you eventually do choose will have to be made at the time. You wonít be out of HS until 2024. Even assuming you go straight into flight training it could be until 2026/7 until you graduate. After doing a uni degree perhaps itíll be closer until the end of the decade. The world will be a very different place. Some companies that exist now wonít in 10 years time. Pathways, careers will be all different. But itís so far off for you I wouldnít bother worrying about it now.

We has a GFC in 2008/9 but we recovered in a few years. This shock will probably go on for longer. But it will end. Donít forget the ďroaring twentiesĒ followed the 1918 flu. The current shock will probably be at least in a recovery by the time you have left high school, and thereís the baby boomer demographic retiring in the next 5 years as well. Keep the dream alive but donít worry about career prospects for a while mate.


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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 07:43
  #760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
There are plenty of plenty of paths to a career in aviation. A word of caution if you are looking at the cadet - airline route however is that airline flying not 'fun', it is usually rather clinical.

There are pros and cons to airlines and for me the pros outweigh the cons. If its a passion of flying the aircraft is what you have, then dont hurry to airlines as that enthusiasm will be quickly tempered.

Enjoy whatever road you take, but for most of us our time in GA or the military was where we had the most fun, and made our best friends.

Cadetships were not available in my time and as much as I'm sure I would have taken one if I could have, Im quietly glad I couldn't.
Couldn't agree more
Ive been flying for over 35 years and my best memories are from the days before the airlines.
You might not end up rich like the old airline captains who were 'lucky' enough to spend their careers on big bucks with big pensions but you will have a more interesting life and better memories .... if you survive

Good luck!
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