Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,146
Likes: 1,262
From: Australia/India
The Bullwinkle nailed it: Do an IT degree. You’ll make more much money more quickly than any career pilot, and you’ll be able to fly when and where you like.
If you desperately want to do flying as a career, try to join the ADF as a pilot and get the taxpayer to pay for it.
Otherwise, get used to living in comfortable poverty and insecurity.
If you desperately want to do flying as a career, try to join the ADF as a pilot and get the taxpayer to pay for it.
Otherwise, get used to living in comfortable poverty and insecurity.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
It's difficult to give advice of any kind in these uncertain times. So many pilots out there have been burnt of late-(
best advice I could offer is don't put all yr eggs in the one basket. Aviation always hinges on the edge at the best of times. Any medical can personally end it all right there! Have another skill up yr sleeve preferably not aviation related. I did just that and it saved my bacon a few times over the turbulent years of aviation.
As for marriage and flying? Again best advice I can give is get women out of your system BEFORE you make big money in aviation (if ever!) that way you will lose less! The two so often simply don't mix -)
I only ever went to work flying heavy metal in the end to get the $$$ to enjoy other pursuits, flying is fun but not at the top, grass roots is where the fun lies and am enjoying the full circle route these days more than ever at a 120 kts 500' AGL... Good luck, trust me you'll need it especially in these crazy times!
best advice I could offer is don't put all yr eggs in the one basket. Aviation always hinges on the edge at the best of times. Any medical can personally end it all right there! Have another skill up yr sleeve preferably not aviation related. I did just that and it saved my bacon a few times over the turbulent years of aviation.
As for marriage and flying? Again best advice I can give is get women out of your system BEFORE you make big money in aviation (if ever!) that way you will lose less! The two so often simply don't mix -)
I only ever went to work flying heavy metal in the end to get the $$$ to enjoy other pursuits, flying is fun but not at the top, grass roots is where the fun lies and am enjoying the full circle route these days more than ever at a 120 kts 500' AGL... Good luck, trust me you'll need it especially in these crazy times!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 803
Likes: 14
From: Darwin, NT, Australia
Combine what both Junior and TBM said. Get the best passes you can in year 12 to maximise your opportunities but keep following your dream.
I was convinced by my country flying school CFI that there was no future in commercial aviation and chose a different path. The year? 1978.
My CFI ultimately retired as an international long haul check captain with over 27,000 hours. Guess he was wrong about his gloomy forecasts.
Lucky for me I've had a good life away from aviation. I only regret my decision not to keep flying every second day now. It's slowly getting easier.
I was convinced by my country flying school CFI that there was no future in commercial aviation and chose a different path. The year? 1978.
My CFI ultimately retired as an international long haul check captain with over 27,000 hours. Guess he was wrong about his gloomy forecasts.
Lucky for me I've had a good life away from aviation. I only regret my decision not to keep flying every second day now. It's slowly getting easier.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: UK
There are plenty of plenty of paths to a career in aviation. A word of caution if you are looking at the cadet - airline route however is that airline flying not 'fun', it is usually rather clinical.
There are pros and cons to airlines and for me the pros outweigh the cons. If its a passion of flying the aircraft is what you have, then dont hurry to airlines as that enthusiasm will be quickly tempered.
Enjoy whatever road you take, but for most of us our time in GA or the military was where we had the most fun, and made our best friends.
Cadetships were not available in my time and as much as I'm sure I would have taken one if I could have, Im quietly glad I couldn't.
There are pros and cons to airlines and for me the pros outweigh the cons. If its a passion of flying the aircraft is what you have, then dont hurry to airlines as that enthusiasm will be quickly tempered.
Enjoy whatever road you take, but for most of us our time in GA or the military was where we had the most fun, and made our best friends.
Cadetships were not available in my time and as much as I'm sure I would have taken one if I could have, Im quietly glad I couldn't.
Ive been flying for over 35 years and my best memories are from the days before the airlines.
You might not end up rich like the old airline captains who were 'lucky' enough to spend their careers on big bucks with big pensions but you will have a more interesting life and better memories .... if you survive
Good luck!
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: UK
Lapon.s storey.
Source unknown:
One fine hot Summer’s afternoon saw a Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was getting quite bothered with the student’s inability to hold circuit height in the thermals and was getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000ft above him and thought "Another 1,000 hrs of this and I qualify for that twin charter job! Aaahh.. to be a real pilot.. going somewhere!"
The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Company’s premier clients. He’d already set MCT and the cylinders didn’t like it in the heat of this Summer’s day. He was at 6,000ft and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty damn tired. Maybe if he got 10,000ft out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000ft in the serene blue sky. "Oh man" he thought, "My interview is next month. I hope I just don’t blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the weather... no snotty passengers to wait for.. aahhh."
The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CATII minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if everyone was going to take a damn pay cut. The F/O’s will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn’t anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/O’s shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THAT’S what we should be on... huge pay packet... super fast... not too many routes... not too many sectors... above the CAT... yep! What a life...!"
FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down. That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he’d like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems... aaah. Must be a great way to earn a quid."
Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasn’t much help. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isn’t this the kinda flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THAT’S flying! Man, that’s what its all about! Geez I’d give my left nut just to be doing THAT down there!" What the Discovery Commander was looking at? A Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
One fine hot Summer’s afternoon saw a Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was getting quite bothered with the student’s inability to hold circuit height in the thermals and was getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000ft above him and thought "Another 1,000 hrs of this and I qualify for that twin charter job! Aaahh.. to be a real pilot.. going somewhere!"
The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for one of the Company’s premier clients. He’d already set MCT and the cylinders didn’t like it in the heat of this Summer’s day. He was at 6,000ft and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day straight and he was pretty damn tired. Maybe if he got 10,000ft out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at 33,000ft in the serene blue sky. "Oh man" he thought, "My interview is next month. I hope I just don’t blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the weather... no snotty passengers to wait for.. aahhh."
The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised that lower levels were not available due traffic. The Captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CATII minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if everyone was going to take a damn pay cut. The F/O’s will be particularly hard hit as their pay wasn’t anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/O’s shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THAT’S what we should be on... huge pay packet... super fast... not too many routes... not too many sectors... above the CAT... yep! What a life...!"
FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down. That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he’d like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission, whilst complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems... aaah. Must be a great way to earn a quid."
Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but the advice they proffered wasn’t much help. The Commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 bloody minutes to himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to the scope. "Have a look at this Sir, isn’t this the kinda flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THAT’S flying! Man, that’s what its all about! Geez I’d give my left nut just to be doing THAT down there!" What the Discovery Commander was looking at? A Cessna 150 flying circuits at a quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny afternoon.
THANK YOU BEST AIRLINE REKATED PIECE I HAVE EVER READ.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: UK
LAPONS STOREY
To the ADminGuys...whats your take on the state of the future of pilots after Corona.I assume you guys are all avaition professiobals and have seen it all.
It is an extremely tough time for young wannabees. Not good for the morale. Gone all the tines when we were all full of the exciting career caree.I feel bad for eager young guys with a few hours to have their spirits and morale dashed Thank you.
It is an extremely tough time for young wannabees. Not good for the morale. Gone all the tines when we were all full of the exciting career caree.I feel bad for eager young guys with a few hours to have their spirits and morale dashed Thank you.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 42
Likes: 1
From: Home Counties
Everyone says 'get a career in IT' but do they know what thats like? Everyone I know that works in that field are on hand to mouth 6 month contracts with no job security and constantly having to retrain themselves at their own expense.
Focus on getting as good an education as you can and look for other ways to develp yourself ie sports and coaching or military cadet organisations. Teamwork and people skills are a big part of airline flying.
Focus on getting as good an education as you can and look for other ways to develp yourself ie sports and coaching or military cadet organisations. Teamwork and people skills are a big part of airline flying.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: UK
Capewiis reply.
You are perfecrltly correct. Lots of people got into I.T. cause its where the money is and ut will always be a secure job ..sme as back home in the U S of A not so anymore you advice Capwell is spot on.
keep safe everyone and best of luck
keep safe everyone and best of luck
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 3
From: Solomon Islands
Only a hang glider pilot. But I remember that first soaring ridge flight, then that first serious thermal to 2000 ft above the English hills and how the world looked, the first cross country flight... and on and on. Each achievement is forever. Each a flight a mixture of faith, and hopeful expectation, increasingly richly awarded. That first flight down Glen Coe from the White Corrie launch, Munro by Munro. What an unfolding adventure and discovery, thermal, wave, wind convergence, .. that time 14,000ft over Segovia in central Spain... now I have no more goals just to keep my oar in when I can.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 26
From: Lalaland
The Bullwinkle nailed it: Do an IT degree. You’ll make more much money more quickly than any career pilot, and you’ll be able to fly when and where you like.
If you desperately want to do flying as a career, try to join the ADF as a pilot and get the taxpayer to pay for it.
Otherwise, get used to living in comfortable poverty and insecurity.
If you desperately want to do flying as a career, try to join the ADF as a pilot and get the taxpayer to pay for it.
Otherwise, get used to living in comfortable poverty and insecurity.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Hello Mega. You’ll no doubt hear plenty of naysayers replying to your OP. I’ve been involved with aviation for 45 years in one form or another from the Air Cadets at school to a military career followed by the airlines. Best advice I was ever given..... don’t get married, have kids or get a mortgage. You’ll then love every minute!!
Enjoyed the flying at every stage but 20 years in, I love Longhaul, love the money, love the people and love the job. If I have one in 3 months.
Keep some back. I’m lucky that at younger than 40, I have 2 years slush fund back and no mortgage. Some spend it like it’s never going to end, 2 kids in posh school, massive mortgage, 2 Tesla’s. yep, that’s great until we have something like NCov when the only people they seem to blame is company instead of themselves.
once you have done it a few years, consider going and developing a second career out of a part time major contract using whatever education and skills you got on the way. Flight crew are good project managers/risk managers.
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 45
Likes: 7
From: Sydney
My advice is don’t confuse a passion to fly with a need to earn an income. They’re not the same. Study hard, carve out a good career in IT, accountancy, law, medicine, whatever. Then you’ll be able to afford to own and fly in your own plane. Believe me you’ll have more fun cutting circuits in a C172 when the air is smooth at sunset than programming the autopilot in a B787 and waiting all night for the sunrise.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 578
Likes: 21
From: Vermont Hwy
A trade and/or a degree in something, not bad to have in the back pocket, in general.
part of me wishes that I had a trade right now. Plumbing wouldn’t be bad right now with all the people flushing other than TP!
and as someone else said, be smart with your money. Just because it’s good coin doesn’t mean it’ll always be good coin.
get a good education. Work hard in a few different jobs when young, get some life skills and a sense of direction YOU want.
ive got many years left in my career in flying. Would I go do it all again?
you bet I would.
will this all turn around one day?
i believe so. Not very soon, but it will. And it’ll take a while to see the industry like it was over the past few years.
part of me wishes that I had a trade right now. Plumbing wouldn’t be bad right now with all the people flushing other than TP!
and as someone else said, be smart with your money. Just because it’s good coin doesn’t mean it’ll always be good coin.
get a good education. Work hard in a few different jobs when young, get some life skills and a sense of direction YOU want.
ive got many years left in my career in flying. Would I go do it all again?
you bet I would.
will this all turn around one day?
i believe so. Not very soon, but it will. And it’ll take a while to see the industry like it was over the past few years.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 264
Likes: 7
From: Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 190
From: NSW Australia
Based on 30--odd years in Aviation watching the Pilots strike of 89, recession we had to have in 91-94, the tech crunch in 2000, Sept 11 in 2001, the GFC in 2008, and now this....
This, too, shall pass.
Each of these events in turn has brought stronger demand for pilots.
Work hard. Play sport. Never say a bad word about another person. Learn how to drink with blokes without getting drunk or making a fool of yourself.
If you are pleasant company and a good bloke/good chick, you will go far in this industry which more than most operates on passion for what we do.
This, too, shall pass.
Each of these events in turn has brought stronger demand for pilots.
Work hard. Play sport. Never say a bad word about another person. Learn how to drink with blokes without getting drunk or making a fool of yourself.
If you are pleasant company and a good bloke/good chick, you will go far in this industry which more than most operates on passion for what we do.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 300
Likes: 39
From: NQLD
Give it a go!
First point, don’t worry about all the Covid-19 stuff going on right now. By the time you finish school the market will be recovering anyway.
Few other tips or things to look at:
- try gliding. It’s cheap, still teaches you good stick and rudder skills, plus you can use the hours towards your licence requirements later on. Also keeps you interested while you save money (next point).
- save as much money as you can before commencing flight training. No matter what path you choose, the ultimate goal is to have as little (or no) debt at the end. I still owed about $60K at the end and grew to hate the repayments and the debt hanging around my neck for years. Plus being on a low salary starting out made it hard to do other things like buy a house. Check out this blog for an example of what your career pathway could look like:
https://www.goflyaviation.com.au/lat...airline-pilot/
- finish school and get some reasonable grades. Not having Year 12 could be an issue later on. But more importantly school will teach you how to study and learn. Which you’ll need later on for all the PPL/CPL/ATPL subjects (plus new aircraft, renewals, etc).
- don’t pay for any training in advance!! Ever!! Unless it’s something like a Rex cadet scheme or some other airline program, don’t pay your local flying school in advance for a whole course. I did once, they screwed me around, but because I’d already paid I couldn’t leave without losing the money.
- if it’s really what you want, just do it! There’s plenty of ‘helpful opinions’ on here which will just throw the get a job in IT line at you and call it advice. I still like my job, I still enjoy flying, 18 years after my first solo. But there’s plenty of people I fly with who don’t enjoy their job anymore, but they exist in every industry.
As the aircraft get bigger, the pay packet should grow, but so does the responsibility. The fun factor also decreases proportional to the increase in aircraft size. That’s when some guys get a private aircraft or return to gliding.
Few other tips or things to look at:
- try gliding. It’s cheap, still teaches you good stick and rudder skills, plus you can use the hours towards your licence requirements later on. Also keeps you interested while you save money (next point).
- save as much money as you can before commencing flight training. No matter what path you choose, the ultimate goal is to have as little (or no) debt at the end. I still owed about $60K at the end and grew to hate the repayments and the debt hanging around my neck for years. Plus being on a low salary starting out made it hard to do other things like buy a house. Check out this blog for an example of what your career pathway could look like:
https://www.goflyaviation.com.au/lat...airline-pilot/
- finish school and get some reasonable grades. Not having Year 12 could be an issue later on. But more importantly school will teach you how to study and learn. Which you’ll need later on for all the PPL/CPL/ATPL subjects (plus new aircraft, renewals, etc).
- don’t pay for any training in advance!! Ever!! Unless it’s something like a Rex cadet scheme or some other airline program, don’t pay your local flying school in advance for a whole course. I did once, they screwed me around, but because I’d already paid I couldn’t leave without losing the money.
- if it’s really what you want, just do it! There’s plenty of ‘helpful opinions’ on here which will just throw the get a job in IT line at you and call it advice. I still like my job, I still enjoy flying, 18 years after my first solo. But there’s plenty of people I fly with who don’t enjoy their job anymore, but they exist in every industry.
As the aircraft get bigger, the pay packet should grow, but so does the responsibility. The fun factor also decreases proportional to the increase in aircraft size. That’s when some guys get a private aircraft or return to gliding.